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L2ST experiences? (www.l2st.co.uk)


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L2ST experiences? (www.l2st.co.uk)

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  #1 (permalink)
 longboat 
Philadelphia, Pa
 
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Mike asked us to separate comments into a new thread so.... Please share your experiences about L2ST. I am thinking of joining but trying to decide between L2ST and 2 other market profile rooms.


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  #3 (permalink)
 hawkvt1 
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Longboat, my experience with L2ST has been remarkable in the fact that in the first month with L2ST I have learned more about trading than the last 3 years. In my opinion, they are the best educators with regard to market profile and reading order flow. Make no mistake, they are not a trade calling room, they are educators.

The two guys that run the show are Brian and Kam and they make a pretty good team. They take turns running the room which starts around 0830 EST and goes until 1130 EST. The first hour is devoted to premarket analysis of usually the ES or the Russell. Identifying possible levels or turning points, high volume and low volume areas, and market structure all taken in context of the bigger picture. After the market opens, price action is observed and once it reaches a possible turning point then order flow is stalked for evidence that buying or selling exhaustion has occurred.

I've studied Market Profile for a long time now and I've always felt that something important was missing from the bigger picture. Combining MP with order flow is brilliant. To take it one step further, they also are very big on the importance of the "mental" side of trading which most traders overlook yet it remains far and above the most important piece of the trading puzzle.

To make a long story short, they're good good guys, the real deal, and I'm very happy I found the room.

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  #4 (permalink)
 bluemele 
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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There are a lot of guys who have used their service from other forum's. Hundreds that I have seen, so out of all of them, Next to the James16 group, they honestly seem the most legit or largest but I thought they were mostly doing just currencies? Maybe that has changed.

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  #5 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
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You have to be able to understand the cockney accents though

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  #6 (permalink)
 hawkvt1 
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That you do! Makes me focus all that much harder lol..

Currently the focus is on the ES, Russell, Dax, and in the past they've traded oil & gold. There is discussion of a currency trading room that is going to be starting very shortly in the next few weeks headed up by Brian so that should be good stuff.

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  #7 (permalink)
 TheSeeker 
Germany
 
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monpere View Post
You have to be able to understand the cockney accents though


"We was right at the first standard deviation low and got a lovely setup that made us some nice money."

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  #8 (permalink)
 MetalTrade 
 
 
Posts: 1,081 since May 2010

Are they giving a free trial ? I would not join any rooms without a free trial. (see my ordeal with eminisniper)

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  #9 (permalink)
 monpere 
Bala, PA, USA
 
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MetalTrade View Post
Are they giving a free trial ? I would not join any rooms without a free trial. (see my ordeal with eminisniper)

Metaltrade,

You can go to L2ST - www.inthetradingzone.com - L2ST - www.inthetradingzone.com to see their free videos of their methodology, and recent trades. They are market profile traders though... Luke, welcome to the dark side! . They seem to have a comprehensive approach to market profile, combined with bid/ask volume analysis. If I used volume in my trading, I would definitely be checking them out further. The videos seem to portrait them as trend riders, averaging 100's of ticks per trade. Although I saw one video with the moderator scalping for a few ticks using just the bid/ask footprint chart.

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  #10 (permalink)
steve5
Los Angeles
 
 
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Another market profile room with no trials. Can anyone suggest a MP room that offers trials.


Steve

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  #11 (permalink)
 Trafford 
London, England
 
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JPJTrading uses MP a lot in its trading as does IOAMT but they use the 5Tick Reversal chart a lot.

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  #12 (permalink)
 tonylou 
darien, IL
 
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While he claims it's a "live" trading room, I've never seen him take a live trade. He has mentioned many trades in the DAX that were taken earlier in the day and marked his charts where he took the trades, but they were always after the fact. Has anybody seen him trade live? Just curious. I know several people have asked to see him trade live but he never did.
In his defense, I did like his explanations and concepts regarding market profile, order flow, bid/ask tools etc.

Had he traded live and shown his trading dome instead of his own P&L spreadsheets, I'm sure he would have had more participants.

I'm curious if anybody has seen him trading.

I've looked at several of his YouTube videos and liked them.

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  #13 (permalink)
 dk27 
Europe
 
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I remember Cunparis (member here) mentioned that he tried to do live trading for couple weeks and lost money.

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  #14 (permalink)
 Swisstrader1 
Zurich, Switzerland
 
Experience: Advanced
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I have been in the trade room for 1 month about 2 years ago. The first week he was trading a 25k account and was only trading 1 contract in CL!
He was breakeven at that time and underestimated a little the fact (imo) that trading 1 contract is a lot harder than trading multiple contracts but he wanted to start out like that. He then traded 2 contracts and his performance was very good. From what I remember he made about 20% return in the next 3 weeks or so.
He definitely is a legit guy and teaches some good info on how to read orderflow and market structure!
I think Kam is one of the few good educators out there!

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  #15 (permalink)
 Boomer34 
Georgia, USA
 
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Any other feedback on this trading room?

I have enjoyed a number of his webinars and get the feeling that he is a good instructor...but it is a pricey room with the currency conversion, coming in around $300 a month.

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  #16 (permalink)
 Jigsaw Trading  Jigsaw Trading is an official Site Sponsor
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As a fellow "Evil Vendor", I approached Kam a while back because someone had recommended him.

I told him I'd like to take a look, not for myself but because I get a lot of people asking me about training and it's not something I could do.

Kam was running a weekend training course the next week and he invited me in on that and it was the most comprehensive top to bottom course I've seen. Now - I've reviewed a lot of trainers, the great majority have been bunk. I always tell them that I am looking to make a recommendation BUT that the flip side is, I'm not going to drag them through the mud if I don't like what they do.

Kam has not been asked to recommend my stuff and to be honest, I don't know if he does or doesn't. I don't really care either. I have no business relationship with Kam.

The room might not be cheap for many but then again it is great value - but you do get access to a lot of his historical webinars and courses when you join up and so that does take the sting out of it.

Kam trades via a separate VPN connection to his prop shop, so you do not see his DOM. I take him on his word @ that. It would be ludicrous for someone that can do what he does to NOT trade. The screens he shares are Market Delta. He also goes through his pre-market prep on line. He averages into positions and you hear him doing that as well as saying when he's going to add more. It's not a call service and he does give the levels in advance and he is very good at calling the markets.

If you have done the FT71 webinars, then this will be right up your street. Kam is a very good teacher, much better in fact at explaining how to implement volume profiling that FT71.

It's worth a look - especially if you make use of all the materials he gives you access too.

Like I say - I wasn't looking for me but I got a lot out of the experience regardless.

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  #17 (permalink)
KumoAssasin
Jacksonville, FL
 
 
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I have been trading a live account for just over a year now. I have been in six trading rooms. Three that are not even worth mentioning and three market profile/volume profile rooms. I did the JPJ trial, eminischool trial (They use market profile/volume profile concepts) and Kam (L2ST). I payed the $300 up front for Kam because just from what I saw in the free videos on his website I knew he was on to something special. Kam is without a doubt the best educator/trader I have ever seen. I spent one month in his room and would have liked to of spent a year in there but I can't afford $300 US dollars a month for the service. I'm a new trader with a very small account. For me it was worth the $300 because you get an entire start-up package of videos explaining in depth his methodology and set-ups. You even get an excel performance tracker spread sheet that is modeled after what athletes use to track performance. The guy is a freak of trading nature. His work that he puts into post market review is insane with the performance tracking, meditating, and seminars. He absolutely changed my life as a trader. I saw him hammer out massive trades every week. I think he had two or three Mondays in a row where he lost money and every other day he killed it easily making back what he lost the prior day and then some on the next day. After those loosing days he would show us his P&L later in the week for the very purpose of educating students, that loss is a part of trading and if you have a robust system and a sizable account, you can handle these drawdowns with no problem.

He does call out trades. You do not see his dome but after you see and hear his level of understanding of the markets than you will have no doubt that he is the real thing.

Now the bad part is if you want to trade like him you will need at least a $40,000.00 account. He trades like a Prop trader because he is and was raised through prop trading. They "build" positions. In other words they add to losing trades. They are so confident that price will eventually turn that they continue to sell as price moves up or buy as price moves down. Kam will tell you that his biggest and best trades are these set-ups. This is a problem for someone like myself with a 20K account.

Now, to go a little further on this topic and tell you how impressed I was with him, I have now went back to trading paper to try and figure out how I can trade in this fashion or if its even possible with a 20k account. I have a great journal spreadsheet that tracks max draw down so I will be paper trading for 6 months (5 1/2 more..i started two weeks ago..I'm up btw 10%) to see if my maxdd will be in range. At the moment I am trading like he suggested and that is like this:

If the market is moving up I have three sell zones labeled SZ1, SZ2, SZ3. I take an entry at SZ1 if I get stopped out I wait for SZ2 then try again and vice versa for longs. This is similar to building a position in that my entries are the same I just don't have as favorable of an outcome. He will tell you that it is much harder to trade like this but it's a good place to start.
You are really just picking tops and bottoms and he will tell you that that is what he does and he will also tell you that he is very good at it. When you have an understanding of perceived value and can see unfair highs and unfair lows it becomes quite clear where to enter in the market.

This is how impressed I am with his work that I went back to paper (Very humbling) to try and trade in this fashion. I am also a huge believer in auction market theory and, for me, this is the only way to trade.

Hope this helps..Good luck in your search.

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  #18 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
San Diego
 
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Good review KumoAssasin. I was thinking about trying this room too but I am trading a smaller account now so I'm not sure it would work for me. I didn't realize he used a lot of scaling. He does sound like a good teacher, although if he starts talking too fast I miss a couple of things. I am definitely interested in learning Profile trading so I am trying to figure out the best place to go as I enjoy learning from live trading/training instead of just reading books, etc.

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  #19 (permalink)
 dandxg 
Denver, Colorado
 
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I give Kam a thumbs up too. I was in his room about 2 years ago. He actually gave me a free two week trial. I was disappointed he didn't show his DOM, but I was impressed that on one of the days he admitted he losk $2500 US and that was his limit and he quit. He wasn't happy about it but he was calm and professional and said he was shutting down to go work out and meditate. The only thing I found strange was he used TransAct which I used and think it is subpar compared to NT or X Trader. I used it because it was cheap and I wasn't trading much anyway. Just learning his P and B formations along with reading order flow could make for a solid plan along with some basic S/R. These are breakout/fakeout reversals.

Someone mentioned Bill at IOAMT. He's a nice guy but I don't think he trades. Actually maybe he does because everytime he had a losing trade he was very unbalanced and upset cussing and swearing. Alex B. is the best part of that room.

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  #20 (permalink)
 wwwingman 
Paris, France
 
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I am following Kam for the past 5 months, made real progress and starting to be consistently profitable (I started trading 18 months ago). I still have a lot learn but for me he is a great trader and teacher.

I bought the full package and recommend doing the same if you are comfortable with Kam, his method and his state of mind. I think there is around 16 or 20 hours of videos and they cover many topics thoroughly. You will need to look at them more than once. I still review some of them.

Following the room is not easy. Kam speaks a lot and is very focused on the market behavior, the trades, the money management etc. And, after the trading, you get a link to a recording of the room session for review. Very useful.

You don’t see Kam’s DOM and I think it is a good thing. Kam makes a very clear pre market analysis and define his areas of business and where he may adapt and go with the market. When he enters the trade he talks about that before and continues his comments on why is he staying in the trade, scaling in/out, stopping etc.

A word about averaging down (somebody mentionned that) : I never saw Kam average down a losing trade. I do see Kam deciding before the trade he may scale in under some condition and always with very strict risk parameters ( Thinking Kam is averaging down a losing a trade is, IMO, a misunderstanding of the difference between scaling in a trade based on a premise and averaging down a losing trade because you are in hope mode.).

I consider the room cost to be expensive (for me). Yet, I spend this money happily every month because I believe he is an important teacher in my journey to becoming a professional trade and because I believe to have made huge progress (well beyond my expectation).

So.. in a nutshell, if you are looking for a calling service, an easy holy grail (haha…), then Kam is not the right teacher. Kam has a professional trader mentality and a business oriented vision and he tries to teach that. IMO, he does a great job.

Happy trading

-- The rest is silence
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  #21 (permalink)
 Bankrobber 
manchester
 
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Hi

I thought i would but my two pence in.... I was in the room for 4 months while Kam was live trading and at best he was neutral on the P&L.

Kam did trade the DAX in the mornings, however never with the room (which was open)? He would go though the trades after the fact which is very easy to do if you want to appear profitable.

I did come across a video on youtube a few months ago, and the method was different however still based on MP.

Having said that, Kam was very good presenter

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 justtradeit84 
Singapore
 
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so,Kam copied the volume profile concepts from FT71 without referencing the original source? I think this is likely coz I watched some of his presentation earlier on and he didnt use Vp.He used traditional MP and Vwap but alter some of FT71 stuff was circulated on internet,this guy started talking about VP,HVN,LVN.Or FT71 copied from Kam? anyone got any ideas? Is Kam really profitable? He charges big money for his trading room using the concept copied from someone else and doesnt offfer trial,which is rediculous to me.Is he is so good why afraid of giving people 2,3 day trial!

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  #23 (permalink)
 wwwingman 
Paris, France
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SC, NT, ToS
Trading: CME & Eurex Futures
 
Posts: 116 since Apr 2011
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justtradeit84 View Post
so,Kam copied the volume profile concepts from FT71 without referencing the original source? I think this is likely coz I watched some of his presentation earlier on and he didnt use Vp.He used traditional MP and Vwap but alter some of FT71 stuff was circulated on internet,this guy started talking about VP,HVN,LVN.Or FT71 copied from Kam? anyone got any ideas? Is Kam really profitable? He charges big money for his trading room using the concept copied from someone else and doesnt offfer trial,which is rediculous to me.Is he is so good why afraid of giving people 2,3 day trial!

I spent ~7 months in Kam room. And learned a lot about trading, volume profile, auction process, footprints, psychology.
I saw all FT71 videos and subscribed to his website and learned the concepts of volume composite and some very basic money management.

I don't know who copied and if someone copied and believe it is not important. Focus on yourself and what those traders can do for you.
FT71 shares ideas but does not tell you how to trade. This is ok, because he gives ideas that you can take and after a lot of work maybe able to do something.
Kam teaches you to trade. Or at least the way he does his trading. And he charges what you consider to be a lot of money. That is your perception and it is legit.
So with FT71 it is cheap and you will spend years to make your research. With Kam it is what you call expensive but will take shorter time. Choose what's best for you.

I believe Kam is very profitable but more involved and more focused on European sessions.

Concerning the trial, I actually agree with him. He gives a lof of material free (videos etc..). So his ideas and approach can be seen easily on his youtube videos or free webinars. If you want to learn volume profile, then commit yourself to his package and the room for at least 6 months. Again, the question is not about Kam. It is about you. DO YOU WANT TO LEARN Volume profile trading. If yes, Kam is probably one of the best.

My 2 cents... and obviously just a perception of things...

W.

-- The rest is silence
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 Bankrobber 
manchester
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: oil
 
Posts: 57 since Mar 2010
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wwwingman View Post
I spent ~7 months in Kam room. And learned a lot about trading, volume profile, auction process, footprints, psychology.
I saw all FT71 videos and subscribed to his website and learned the concepts of volume composite and some very basic money management.

I don't know who copied and if someone copied and believe it is not important. Focus on yourself and what those traders can do for you.
FT71 shares ideas but does not tell you how to trade. This is ok, because he gives ideas that you can take and after a lot of work maybe able to do something.
Kam teaches you to trade. Or at least the way he does his trading. And he charges what you consider to be a lot of money. That is your perception and it is legit.
So with FT71 it is cheap and you will spend years to make your research. With Kam it is what you call expensive but will take shorter time. Choose what's best for you.

I believe Kam is very profitable but more involved and more focused on European sessions.

Concerning the trial, I actually agree with him. He gives a lof of material free (videos etc..). So his ideas and approach can be seen easily on his youtube videos or free webinars. If you want to learn volume profile, then commit yourself to his package and the room for at least 6 months. Again, the question is not about Kam. It is about you. DO YOU WANT TO LEARN Volume profile trading. If yes, Kam is probably one of the best.

My 2 cents... and obviously just a perception of things...

W.

U believe kam is profitable? What is this based on? I was in the trading
Room for months but he never did 1 trade live or show accounts?
I've seen his recent method and its different from what was taught even
1year back? I personally don't think he's makes money trading but makes via
Expensive subscriptions......

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  #25 (permalink)
 wwwingman 
Paris, France
 
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Bankrobber View Post
U believe kam is profitable? What is this based on? I was in the trading
Room for months but he never did 1 trade live or show accounts?
I've seen his recent method and its different from what was taught even
1year back? I personally don't think he's makes money trading but makes via
Expensive subscriptions......

Yes, I believe Kam is profitable based on the time I spent there, and the many live trades I saw (ES/NQ).
Maybe something changed in the room, or maybe he preferred teaching during august, a historically slower and choppier market period.

More important, if you believe a mentor is useful and worthy (you spent a month there, so I suppose the answer is yes, and I share this opinion), you still need to be in FULL CONFIDENCE with him. This does not seem to be your case with Kam, so stop immediately and start looking for someone else.

-- The rest is silence
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 xiaosi 
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
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FWIW, Kams room is listed as a training room, not a trading room...

It's laughable to think anyone can copy MP and VP concepts isn't it?

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  #27 (permalink)
 Trafford 
London, England
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I know Kam and Brian from L2ST quite well. I think they are straight up guys but they run their organisation like a business. A friend of mine is interviewing a list of trading celebrities to which he is hoping to market very soon. And it was interesting to note that very few, if any, are actual traders, most are educators.
I just think people who trade just focus on how to trade. Teaching people hope to trade has become a business all in itself so I would not worry about whether the guy you are learning off of is profitable but more importantly is the information that is being taught to you meaningful to you and if you applied it does it make you profitable. I mean how many college lecturers who teach business studies actually have run a successful business? You can get 10 people trading the exact same system and only one of them are actually profitable, why is that you may ask. Well, there are many reasons why that is, the same as there are many dieting fads; every time a new one emerges we follow it in the hope that we do not have to do anything to achieve our goal.

If you can find a successful trader to learn form then that is the best way for sure, but if not rooms such as L2ST are a beginning. Remember this not every day is there really good opportunities in the market and the less you trade the more profitable you will become but if you want to trade everyday then there are rooms that will encourage you to do so.

Be diligent, do your homework and seek the right people for you. Know when a guy is making more from trading education rather than actual trading. IT is not difficult to establish that.

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  #28 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
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longboat View Post
Mike asked us to separate comments into a new thread so.... Please share your experiences about L2ST. I am thinking of joining but trying to decide between L2ST and 2 other market profile rooms.


good basic training at a fair price....

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  #29 (permalink)
 matthoffman 
wichita,ks, united states
 
Experience: Advanced
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I debated joining Kam's room for several months before I finally just gave in and joined it. After 2 months spent in the room I think the negative posts come from traders looking for a trade calling service. Kam teaches a method that if your new to order flow, market profile, or trading, you can use this method to create a trading plan. Kam is very responsive during the season and does an excellent job answering questions and working with the traders. The primary focus during the trading hours is the ES. I've experienced a lot of poor customer service in the "trading help" business, and I feel that Kam is worth the price.

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  #30 (permalink)
 Pipo1980 
Zürich / Switzerland
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Hi to all!


I was one full year in his room. I learned a lot. I can highly recommend it!
Yes this room should no be used to trade. It's more for education.

You will learn a lot about market structure and volume Profile.
How to make a daily plan. How to be Patience and wait until the Price get to your Level.
How to execute by orderflow. And how to scale out an manage your trade.

But after one year you will see, that not the technics allone makes you a good Trader.
No. It's more the control of your Emotion. The discipline and Patience.

He is a very good educator and a smart men.

Is Kam profitable? Yes he is!

Peace to all!!

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  #31 (permalink)
 KahunaDog 
Hawaii at the beach
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Nt8, MotiveWave, TOS
Broker: S5
Trading: ES, ZB fine alcohol and muscle cars
 
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L2ST has a January special for his framework course.

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  #32 (permalink)
 Bankrobber 
manchester
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tradestation
Trading: oil
 
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KahunaDog View Post
L2ST has a January special for his framework course.


Dont do it..... save your money

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  #33 (permalink)
 KahunaDog 
Hawaii at the beach
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Nt8, MotiveWave, TOS
Broker: S5
Trading: ES, ZB fine alcohol and muscle cars
 
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Bankrobber View Post
Dont do it..... save your money

He actually offers a ton of free information. I found value in his material so far and a better understanding of integrating market and volume profile into material I already practice.
He is much more clear and detailed than Ft71. From what I have been exposed to. The information is put together better, more examples are offered and using his terminology a framework is used. At this point I can't tell if he averages in, but I am leaning to he does.

Was he not consistent in his methodology? Or what specifics can you offer on not liking his trading, material or other?

I'm not sure I'm ready or even sure I would pay for his material or coaching, but he is very knowledgable, competent and seems sincere. He is organized, has solid business practices with regards to trading, seems to have a sincerity and passion lacking in other mp people. Even offers a 30day money back guarantee.

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  #34 (permalink)
 Bankrobber 
manchester
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: tradestation
Trading: oil
 
Posts: 57 since Mar 2010
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Hi

Read my posts on this thread, that should explain my views

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  #35 (permalink)
 Narcissus 
Vancouver Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Investor RT & Ninja
Broker: IB & IQ DTN
Trading: ES
 
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I have watched Kam @ L2ST's free webinars for many weeks and finally took the plunge & I joined his trading room last week. He clearly has a sound logic and methodology but most importantly focuses a lot on psychology.

I can honestly say that the welcome webinars are alone worth the price.

He is a genuine trader, sincere teacher and a great life coach too. He is also a very profitable one from what I see from his spreadsheet (though it's not very important for me. I am a Physician and some of the best teachers I had were not rich and they didn't have busy private clinics).

He clearly calls his trade well in advance, extremely disciplined and has tons of patience. That's what I wanted to learn in addition to the less important setups (which are free by the way).

I don't let money leave my bank account easily and I am very happy so far for paying him. If you like Auction Market, Kam of L2ST is one of the best to learn from.

(The other one I really respect is FT71 but unable to open stage 5 account to use his service as I live in Canada)

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  #36 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, ninjatrader, tradestation, fxcm
Trading: Es forex
 
Posts: 116 since Jan 2015
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He runs a live room but doesnt say what his entries are. According to his website this is be because you won't learn by following another trader.
I think it is much more likely that he either doesnt actually trade or he is not profitable.

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  #37 (permalink)
 Macan 
Stockholm Sweden
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra chart
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 58 since Jun 2015
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His stuff is totally legit and by the far best course I've bought. I have been in the live room now for a week and you will see him doing all his analysis live and knowing which entries and stop he is taking BEFORE he pulls the trigger. Absolutely worth all the money I've spent on his website and for those who are a little more conservative with your money - join his live room first and then take the course.

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  #38 (permalink)
whats1thingnow
Whistler, BC
 
 
Posts: 31 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 23 given, 9 received

peaked my interest

which one of the following courses (https://www.thetradingframework.com/store) are good from your experience?

or just the live trading room that runs 2 hours x 3 days a week is good enough (this is much shorter in duration than i expect compared to other trading rooms)?

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  #39 (permalink)
 dk27 
Europe
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT, IB
Broker: IQfeed, IB
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 162 since Jun 2009
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I assume you missed this one.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/kam-dhadwar-the-trading-framework/




whats1thingnow View Post
peaked my interest

which one of the following courses (https://www.thetradingframework.com/store) are good from your experience?

or just the live trading room that runs 2 hours x 3 days a week is good enough (this is much shorter in duration than i expect compared to other trading rooms)?


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