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Anyone use Daytradetowin?


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Anyone use Daytradetowin?

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  #1 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Zen-Fire
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He claims to trade price action and has some pretty comical videos trading on NT market replay where his targets aren't filled but tells everyone they got filled anyway. I am always interested to see what indicators and systems these guys use. I have no problem with consulting and sweet indi's getting sold but this guy definitely seems to be preying on new people. Does anyone know what indicators and strategies he uses?

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  #2 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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the method had been cracked, read the whole story here
Day Trading Forum - Anyone ever hear of DayTradeToWin?

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  #3 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Funny. Thanks Cory.

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  #4 (permalink)
 Alan 
Sydney - Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: Velocity Futures
Trading: ES, 6E
 
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Here is another thread to check out:
Anyone heard of Day Trade to Win

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  #5 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, CL
 
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https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=16706

Here is one more.

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  #6 (permalink)
fish21
USA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2009
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This is a simple opening range system that uses the opening range and waits for price to close out side of the opening range and then one enters a limit at the opening range price.

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  #7 (permalink)
 puppeye 
hk
 
Experience: Beginner
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I wrote a simple strategy in ninja (pretty easy because the method is 100% mechanical) and tested it. The signal is pretty accurate in the sense that it has a winning rate of approximately 65-70%. This is probably because of its HUGE initial stop loss (5 points). The method recommends taking 1/2 off at 2 point profit and the second half at 4 point. However, it appears that price rarely hits the 4 point mark (I move my stop to break even when it hits the 2 point mark).

I tried it on sim and the system can give you 7 - 10 consecutive winning days (taking 2 point profit only) but one losing day (5 points) is equal to more than the profit from 2 winning days.

So ..... 0.7 * 2 - 0.3 * 5 = - 0.1

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  #8 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Nearly forgot about this thread. I saw a webinar John Paul put on once and I asked why his targets weren't getting filled and if he was simming on market replay and he didn't answer. Cory has cooler opening range breakout stuff than daytradetowin. A lot of people are quoted on his site as having a bunch of winning days. Someone said on one of those threads linked above that ES changed at the open significantly to render John Paul's strat as marginally effective these days. I never really tried any ORB stuff. I just don't like the guy after hearing his webinar. He totally rubbed me the wrong way. Not all vendors are like that but you could tell he was targeting people who didn't even know how to use ninja.

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  #9 (permalink)
fish21
USA
 
 
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do you have the script that you could share for backtesting??

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  #10 (permalink)
 richsan 
Gainesville, FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage/Continuum
Trading: YM, RTY, ES
 
Posts: 19 since Aug 2009
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You don't need a script.
Using 10 min bars calculate the high and the low of the range from 9:20 to 9:50 EST.
For a long entry wait for a 10 min. bar close above the high of the range. Enter a buy limit order at the range high.

A short entry is the opposite, requiring a 10 min bar close below the low of the 9:20 -9:50 range etc.

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  #11 (permalink)
fish21
USA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2009
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puppeye View Post
I wrote a simple strategy in ninja (pretty easy because the method is 100% mechanical) and tested it. The signal is pretty accurate in the sense that it has a winning rate of approximately 65-70%. This is probably because of its HUGE initial stop loss (5 points). The method recommends taking 1/2 off at 2 point profit and the second half at 4 point. However, it appears that price rarely hits the 4 point mark (I move my stop to break even when it hits the 2 point mark).

I tried it on sim and the system can give you 7 - 10 consecutive winning days (taking 2 point profit only) but one losing day (5 points) is equal to more than the profit from 2 winning days.

So ..... 0.7 * 2 - 0.3 * 5 = - 0.1

Can u please provide the ninja script so i can back test the results over a lengthy period of time for myself.

Thanks

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  #12 (permalink)
 cecooper 
Erie, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 8 since Jan 2010
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I purchased the course a year ago. I have lost money. The results listed on the daytradetowin website cannot be achieved in real trading.

The reason is because he uses a large stop (-5 points) and targets of +2 and +4. If the trade reaches +2 and never reaches +4, he will take credit for a full +2 trade. But in the real world, a traders will take half at +2 and the second half at 0 or -2 (breakeven), which makes it impossible to achieve his results.

At the best, I breakeven for a month.

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  #13 (permalink)
 cecooper 
Erie, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 8 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

It is the large stop loss (-5) that hurts profits. If you can use some method (indicators, or whatever) to avoid only 1 or 2 losses per month, you can make money with the method...

Anyone make money with the method???

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  #14 (permalink)
 emini_Holy_Grail 
Dallas,TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, OpenQuant
Broker: Zaner/Zen Fire
Trading: ES,6E,6B,GC,CL
 
Posts: 599 since Nov 2009
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why would you work hard to even get his results as his results are pretty low. His avg /. 2009 is 22,000 for 20contracts (hope everyoen noticed),
E Mini S&P Futures Trading Track Record
that brings avg to 22000/20 = $1100/month, that brings to $50/day for one ES contract. you can get this by working on any method/indicator from this forum, even if you make mistakes on exits/entries, you can still make 1pt/day

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  #15 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009

I think the vendor should consider changing the name to Daytradetolose because that is exactly what will happen if you follow this method.

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  #16 (permalink)
 cecooper 
Erie, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 8 since Jan 2010
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I agree... I'm looking forward to developing new methods with the help of this forum

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  #17 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
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Everytime someone posts in this thread I get pissed off because this guy is still making money. These kinds of vendors have no problems making the cheddar they do. Absolutely astonishing to me that he makes money selling an ORB strat.

Anyway, I think it was Jeff or Cunparis that said the ORB has to take some drawdowns to have it work, but they are profitable. I still don't look for ORB trades as a setup or anything.

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  #18 (permalink)
 peponide 
Spain
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES
 
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I bought this method a few months ago, and have used it with real money for 75 days. I use it just with 2 contracts. Here you have some REAL statistics, based on single contract trades. I mean, I use 2 contracts, but enter the information in Worksheet as 2 separate trades, as one contract can exit at a different price than the other:

Total trades: 160
Winner trades: 113
Looser trades: 47

Max drawdown: 29,75 points

Net balance in points: -29,75

Of course, I have given it up.

This method only make happy John Paul (the guy from DayTradetoWin) and my broker. As soon as you get some profit you get some stop loss and turn into negative. In 71 days, the most positive net balance has been 8,90 net points. This isn't a profitable method. I'm not sure the way he says to get those results but I have checked in my results some days he says to get positive results, and I got a stop loss filled.

The problem is the huge stop loss compared with the earnings. In my case (with 2 contracts) each stop filled are 10,2 net points. Every positive day are supposed to be 5,8 net points, but most of the time, 4 points profit target is not hit. It is very strange to get a +6. Stops are filled in just a 25% of the trades, but the other 75% of positive trades can't make the net balance positive.

About how much time you have to stay trading, is very variable. Some days in a few minutes you have done it, but other days you can spend up to 5 hours to get your profit target (or stop) hit.

If you appreciate your money, look for another method, this isn't worth its price.

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  #19 (permalink)
 Boonja 
Toronto
 
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Posts: 4 since Oct 2009
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I've been a member of futures.io (formerly BMT) since October and this is my first post. I point this out because I too got sucked into the daytradetowin 'dream' and it is a relief to hear the latest conversation here. DTTW was my first venture into trading the ES and I don't know if it was his flashy website that caught my eye or what. I did do my research which took me a long time. Created a spreadsheet pointing out what news happened that day, how the market reacted, how many points I 'could' have taken, etc. I went into sim mode for 3 months and felt I could really pull this off. Even had dreams of finally trading full time. I went live in September and, as we all know, it's a different story when you go live. September was an interesting month and I went 4 straight trades hitting my 5 point stop loss. My biggest mistake here I admit, was that I started out with 5 contracts! Figured that was small based on John Paul's 20 contracts! I couldn't figure out why at the end of Sept I had 6 losing trades and only 3 winners. Far from the 'dream' that DTTW makes it sound like. Further to that, I got sucked into one of his $197 webinars where he didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.....but hey, I got a month of his indicator (which nobody needs). It's just the ORB indicator which is free on futures.io (formerly BMT).

All I can do is warn others that the DTTW method has been explained in this forum and I highly recommend that you save yourself the $700. The only good thing I got from DTTW is a wakeup call which sent me on the path to find sites such as futures.io (formerly BMT) and even DH at Emini Addict.

PS. All you really have to do is listen to John Paul speak. He gave me the creeps and something inside was telling me to run. Probably that same voice that tells me to sell instead of holding on......damn you GREED!!

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  #20 (permalink)
 cecooper 
Erie, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 8 since Jan 2010
Thanks: 4 given, 5 received

Totally agree with Boonja.

My experience with DTTW was very similar. I lost money and have gone back to only sim trading until I can develop a profitable strategy and my confidence. Not there yet, but getting closer...

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  #21 (permalink)
Richard
Dallas TX/USA
 
 
Posts: 154 since Jun 2009
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Boonja View Post
I couldn't figure out why at the end of Sept I had 6 losing trades and only 3 winners.

I have no opinion of this particular method, but this part is important in a general sense. You can't figure it out any more than you can figure out why a coin will come up tails 6 times in a row sometimes. In some sense, that's what random means: you can't figure it out.

Whenever theoretical probability and reality come face to face, reality kicks theory in the nuts and runs away laughing. If the theoretical number is correct, then over time you can expect to converge on it with diminishing variance. In any short run, though, you can have incredibly painful "anomalies" (just like flipping a coin). And that's with any method, free, paid-for, or otherwise.

So, when you have a trading idea that you expect to work with high probability, you simply can't be swayed by small strings of results. Even with the coin toss, after a couple hundred trials, you can have 60% tails. It doesn't mean the coin is bad.

By the same token, you can look at a short run of results and it will look phenomenally good (like if you get heads 9 times out of 10). This is how you can advertise a worthless indicator without much trouble... you just show people the good runs and let them assume the rest. But it's also one of the reasons why supposedly "smart" backtesters fall down. If you consider the relatively small amount of data most retailers have available to backtest with, the average underdog backtesting trader is screwed before he/she starts. And they usually blame curve fitting! LOL

(not that curve fitting isn't another big problem)

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  #22 (permalink)
monkeypuzzle
Olympia, WA
 
 
Posts: 2 since Jan 2010
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Earlier this evening, I had my wallet out in preparation for buying the DayTradeToWin Ebook. I won't be a customer after all, but I am going to research the 'Opening Range Breakout' concept.

Thanks for the heads up...

Monkeypuzzle

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  #23 (permalink)
 David_R 
San Jose, Ca
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: Something moving
 
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I admit that I got suckered into buying the ebook, course, or whatever you want to call it. It is an opening range BO system, but he has modified it for days when price trends real hard and never comes back to the entry. Oddly enough he calls that the "chase the trade" trade. Something I need to not do. I don't trade the method, but did try a few times and made money. Of course its the long haul we need to be concerned about and not 1 or 2 trades or days. The 5 point stop in my opinion is crazy and that alone made me abandon the method. My advice to anyone contemplating buying the ebook or any method for that matter is to not do it. Everything anyone needs is here on futures.io (formerly BMT) and as Mike would say, "With in us".

David

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  #24 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: 6E, CL
 
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Posts: 494 since Aug 2009
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I am not going to chase any trends thanks. If it doesn't pullback, forget it. This is something I have really been working on. I don't care if it moves 100 ticks. No way, not for me.

5 point stop? Really?!? I guess it would have to be that way if you are trading ORB's. Not for me.

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  #25 (permalink)
 zulutrader 
NY, NY
 
 
Posts: 9 since May 2010

Without a doubt, I'm at +32 points for this month of May so far using John Paul's ATO method and recently bought the Atlas too.

And obviously I'm not the only one doing well since his forum is full of his students and his webinars are always packed with satisifed traders.

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  #26 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker: Several
Trading: ES CL ZB
 
Posts: 374 since Dec 2009
Thanks: 225 given, 380 received

*smile, chuckle*

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  #27 (permalink)
 Dragon 
Bellingham, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, CL
 
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Posts: 494 since Aug 2009
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zulutrader View Post
Without a doubt, I'm at +32 points for this month of May so far using John Paul's ATO method and recently bought the Atlas too.

And obviously I'm not the only one doing well since his forum is full of his students and his webinars are always packed with satisifed traders.

Start a journal and we will all welcome your progress as you go through this method. One of the coolest ways to evaluate a vendor's product to track your success with it as you trade it's signals in a journal. I would love to be proven wrong.

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  #28 (permalink)
 PandaWarrior 
In the heat
 
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Dragon View Post
Start a journal and we will all welcome your progress as you go through this method. One of the coolest ways to evaluate a vendor's product to track your success with it as you trade it's signals in a journal. I would love to be proven wrong.


Well said Dragon....

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci


Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
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  #29 (permalink)
 YulinYao 
Washington Crossing, PA
 
Experience: Beginner
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Trading: ES
 
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Would you please tell your setup win and lose %?

You use pre market hour and post market hour together is very interesting. As most people use the first 30 minutes range that would the range of the day for 1/3 chance. If we use first 60 minutes range, the chance as the day range is 60%, anf 80% if we use the first 90 minutes's range.

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  #30 (permalink)
 emini_Holy_Grail 
Dallas,TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, OpenQuant
Broker: Zaner/Zen Fire
Trading: ES,6E,6B,GC,CL
 
Posts: 599 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 176 given, 122 received

I use OpenRangeBreakOut_SharkyPkg and dont see ES.
is there an updated version that has ES? or do I have wrong OR indicator?

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  #31 (permalink)
bigkahuna
USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

First, I want to preface this by saying this is NOT a post to bash anyone. It’s just my personal experience and opinion with DTW and John Paul. Yours may vary.

I have been trying to make the DTW methodologies work for me for more than a year now (don't laugh).

To begin with, I, like so many other frustrated traders, was attracted to DTW because of its simplicity. It seems like most DTW clients stumble upon the DTW website because they are newbs or they had purchased one of the many day trading scam systems on the Internet and were not having the success they thought they’d have. The DTW methods are very easy to understand and follow, making them ideal for less experienced traders looking for a system. At only $600 and a money back guarantee, they figure, “What do I have to lose?” If they purchase and begin using the ATO method during a good week or month, they say to themselves, “This is what I’ve been looking for.” They may even post their feedback or video on the DTW website saying how great the system is. Many of the testimonials used on the DTW website are from traders who had purchased the system and had instant success with it. Then, inevitably, the worm turns and they have a bad few weeks or months. Those 5/6 point stop outs really begin to add up and decimate their accounts!! Especially the days when they happen more than once like Aug 4th and 6th. Ouch!

My theory is that many traders simply give up and decide to move on to look for another methodology. I assume that’s why there are no posts on the DTW site forum from anyone who has been trading these methods successfully for more than a year. I’m NOT saying it can’t be done, but you need to be trading a heck of a lot more than 2 or 3 contracts to make a living using the ATO method. JP trades 20 contracts. But he can afford to. The DTW website says that it has sold “thousands” of ATO courses. Do the math people! We are talking millionaire here. God bless America!!

Add to that the $180,000 (300 courses @ $600 per course) he took in from the sale of his Trade Scalper course he offered for the first time a few months ago, and the $1,800 a pop Atlas Line he sells and you can see why JP can more than afford to trade 20 contracts. Heck, he can trade zero contracts and still make more money in one year than most of us combined will make. Can you afford to trade even 10 contracts?

I’ve had minimal, sporadic success at best using ATO. I am not a 100% believer in the Chase the Trade method. I’ve had some success using the original scalping method and limited success using the Trade Scalper method along with his X5 trade.

What about the Atlas Line you may ask. I’m waiting a few more months before passing judgment. The one thing I have found ironic about the AL is this; If you plot a line in the opposite direction using the same degree of angle, you can come up with a similar (albeit opposite) narrative. “Price crossed here and continued in that direction,” “price bounced off the line here,” etc. Try it and come up with your own narrative. Then again, maybe I just have too much time on my hands. LOL

Posting his daily ATO results with his exact entries, exits, stops, and re-entry prices would go very long way in convincing those of us who have bought (literally) into his methods that he is legit. Otherwise, it just looks like window dressing. He stopped posting his results on the DTW website a few months ago because he had been getting too much heat from disgruntled customers. He also recently began filtering people's posts on the DTW site forum which is a HUGE red flag in my book. I will say, however, that he has been very polite when I've emailed him and when we spoke on the phone. Then again, I'm sure Stalin had nice manners too. LOL

Best of luck to everyone

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  #32 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
United States of America
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
 
Posts: 1,149 since Aug 2009


bigkahuna View Post
JP trades 20 contracts. But he can afford to. The DTW website says that it has sold “thousands” of ATO courses. Do the math people! We are talking millionaire here. God bless America!!

Add to that the $180,000 (300 courses @ $600 per course) he took in from the sale of his Trade Scalper course he offered for the first time a few months ago, and the $1,800 a pop Atlas Line he sells and you can see why JP can more than afford to trade 20 contracts. Heck, he can trade zero contracts and still make more money in one year than most of us combined will make.

JP is a paper trading legend. He refused to to share his personal trading statements to back up the performance. He clearly stated the results were simulated and this was evident in his Utube informercials.

If you can beileve he sold all those courses and ebooks than he is, indeed, making a good living, not from trading his money, but by taking it away from those who yearn for a quick and easy way to take money out of the markets.

I've seen this movie a hundred times. The actors have different names, but they all do the same thing. Vendors, with a rare exception or two, line their pockets by selling crap to the gullible, naive, and burnt out traders looking for a fix.

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  #33 (permalink)
bigkahuna
USA
 
 
Posts: 3 since Aug 2010
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Zoethecus,

I think maybe you misunderstood my post. I wasn't touting JP. I was trying to be sarcastic in a politically correct way by demonstrating how he makes a living selling his snake oil such that he doesn't even need to actually trade himself. I was one of the idiots who bought into his sales pitches. His ATO method does not work in the long run becasue of the wide stops. Period! The other week this method lost 18 points in 2 days. Brutal. Why do you think he stopped posting his results? Because they were freaking bogus!!

His original scalping method has a decent win percentage but risking 12 ticks to make 2-3 ticks is insane IMO! The Atlas Line is a joke I'm starting to believe. His X5 trade is interesting but very subjective. The one method that seems to work more than 75% of the time is his Trade Scalper. Risking 5 ticks to make 2-3 ticks with a 75% win percentage is easier to swallow.

The one thing that I found interesting was that JP put up a website for DTW customers to share ideas. I figured, if he was really trying to be sneaky, the last thing he'd want would be for his customers to communicate with one another. Unfortunately, he now filters peoples' posts. That is very disturbing!

Also, during his webinars, he no longer allows peoples' questions to be seen by everyone on the webinar. The questions go right to him. This too is VERY disturbing! What is he trying to hide?

However, JP and his DTW cronies recently had a live expo in FL for DTW customers. I found that interesting. Why would he open himself to ridicule at a live event if he was so sneaky? That would be a perfect place for a disgruntled customer to show up and give him what for.

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  #34 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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bigkahuna View Post
Zoethecus,
...

However, JP and his DTW cronies recently had a live expo in FL for DTW customers. I found that interesting. Why would he open himself to ridicule at a live event if he was so sneaky? That would be a perfect place for a disgruntled customer to show up and give him what for.

very very few people will admit publicly in person that he was duped by such and such and now asking for some explanation.

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  #35 (permalink)
 sunny135 
Mississauga,Ontario,Canada
 
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[Hi everybody
anybody has Atlas Line Indicator. Please reply?
It tells that atlas line gives entry point in advance ,,, IS this right????

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  #36 (permalink)
 bluemele 
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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sunny135 View Post
[Hi everybody
anybody has Atlas Line Indicator. Please reply?
It tells that atlas line gives entry point in advance ,,, IS this right????

He threatened to sue BigMike.com if I recall due to someone giving the code for the indicator.

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  #37 (permalink)
 vovan348 
Moscow
 
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sunny135 View Post
[Hi everybody
anybody has Atlas Line Indicator. Please reply?
It tells that atlas line gives entry point in advance ,,, IS this right????

My advice would be to stop looking for a magic indicator.
I've heard some good and bad things about that atlas line. Somebody said it was just a break even after a while. I watched couple of his videos and doesn't look really good.
He's saying that you should use ATR for target, but he closes his trade before it gets there. That means that he's not comfortable with his live trades and he's afraid that it's not gonna work at the camera. He's excuse was that he cannot trade and talk at the same time.

Why do you want to have something on your chart that you don't even know what is it.

I saw you looking around for different strategies and indicators. I tell you that you there is no magic indicator that would give you great trades every time. You should find something that you like the best and make it work for you. If you look around some guys make money with just a couple MAs and price action. You should watch the price and indicators you like and get feel for the market. Jumping from one way to another not gonna help. I know that from my own experience.

Another thing I want to tell. It doesn't have to be complicated to work. Get something as simple as possible, learn some price action and make it work. It's not gonna be easy and it's gonna take a while. Don't panic if you had a bad day week or month. Just keep working on it and it all come together one day for you.

I think a lot of people will agree with me!!!

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  #38 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
Berlin, Europe
 
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sunny135 View Post
[Hi everybody
anybody has Atlas Line Indicator. Please reply?
It tells that atlas line gives entry point in advance ,,, IS this right????

You are really dreaming.

No simple indicator in the world will ever give an entry point in advance.

The atlas line is just a line and that is it.

I had it installed on NinjaTrader, but removed it after a few minutes, because it was useless.

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  #39 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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sunny135 View Post
[Hi everybody
anybody has Atlas Line Indicator. Please reply?
It tells that atlas line gives entry point in advance ,,, IS this right????

random lines also give entries in advance.

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  #40 (permalink)
lightninglou22
New York
 
 
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Has anyone try day Trade to win scalper software???

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  #41 (permalink)
 dk27 
Europe
 
Experience: Intermediate
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See existing thread.





lightninglou22 View Post
Has anyone try day Trade to win scalper software???


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