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is 40-50 ticks per day doable


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is 40-50 ticks per day doable

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  #11 (permalink)
Honolulu, Hawaii
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: ATC/TT, AMP/Zen-Fire, AMP/CQG
Trading: TF
 
bluemele's Avatar
 
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anniebee321 View Post
unfortunately reading through and practicing the multitudes of different strategies
from fibonacci to order flow to pivot to elliot waves......presented on any forum would take years
to sift through to find the best method - what is needed is a structured approach to learning
which is why people opt for courses - unfortunately many of these are no good
which is why self taught traders seem to be taking 2-5 years to succeed though some take
a year. - it took me about 12-18 months to be a competent programmer working within
the industry, taking 3,4,5 years would have got me the sack!!

I understand where you are coming from. I believe that a course can shortcut your learning curve, however, I find that most people have no idea on what kind of trading they are compatible with until they have paid for a course or two.

The key is understanding what type of trading you enjoy. Regardless of profits, some love scalping for 1-2 ticks! Some 5-7 ticks, some 30 ticks, others 500 pips! It is a matter of personality and preference.

I don't think you will know that until you get your hands dirty and trade them all and decide if this is for you, or you have a deep understanding of your personality and can identify quickly if something suits you or not just by doing a quick evaluation.

I do believe there are 'shortcuts', but not the kind most of us dream about. haha...

I have come to realize that the easiest way to be a better trader is to quit the indi's and focus on a technique that enables you to communicate with the market. You will find many many providers out there with new indi's (supposedly new) to bedazzle you and lure you onto the hook!

If I were to start over (3 years since pretty much full time learning and trading) then I would start with just price action and learn the basics and drill them over and over and over and fall in love with the market in a way that you would fall in love with a song if you heard it a million times on the radio.

The challenge is the world we live in teaches us instant gratification can be obtained. The lucky few achieve this, so we believe this will happen to us.

Good luck on your journey and 30-50 ticks is easy if you are taking larger stops and hence more risk if market conditions change etc., which someone with less experience would not see or understand because they haven't learned the beat of the music and hence the change...

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  #12 (permalink)
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
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anniebee321 View Post
hi mike,

not looking for a shortcut journey but trying to avoid a zig zag journey full of pot holes!!!
ie a structured route


Annie, i understand that need you have and i don't think you can learn how to trade by visiting a forum. Information on most forums is badly organised and in most cases it shoots in all directions trying to please everybody. What you can get or do on a forum is forming new contacts, getting some new ideas, asking for help when you have a problem with your platform to see if anybody else has found a solution etc. That's pretty basic stuff. But learning how to trade on a forum is completly another ball game. If i were to start again today i would start by trying to get instructions on Market Profile and build from that point onward. Getting the right instruction is more tough than learning how to trade. One pitfall i'd try to avoid, finding a system on a public board. Too many people are still in search of the miraculous and have preferences or bias that might influence you to look at dead ends. Second pitfall, finding a guru on a web site or anywhere else. Many traders have big egos and they think their vision or perception is the right stuff. Third pitfall, reading books. No book will teach you how to trade. Trading is akin to learning to play a musical instrument. You need to internalise certain aspects and no book can help you here. Although there are no shorcuts there are dead end pathways that can make you miss the boat or train completly. The best way to learn how to trade is from someone who already is doing it for a living. Oral transmission is the way to go.

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  #13 (permalink)
new york
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, NT
Trading: CL, GC
 
Posts: 213 since Sep 2009
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There is no shortcut. Even when you are given the most profitable method, you will still ended up losing money. The reason is psychology.

Psychology affect each of us differently. You just need the time and experience to understand you own.

Imho, psychology is most important aspect in this business. Unfortunately, we only get to this step after losing ton of money and most people give up before get to this step.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

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  #14 (permalink)
United Kingdom
 
 
Posts: 23 since Sep 2010

15- 20 ticks a day is pretty standard for what they expect at prop firms. When I read the original post of 40-50 ticks a day I was in two minds of either telling you to run a mile

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  #15 (permalink)
london
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninja
Trading: fgbl
 
Posts: 152 since Nov 2009
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How long did it take you guys to get to aveage 15-20 pips a day if you do not mind sharing that
and also if the legup came from a prop firm?

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  #16 (permalink)
London
 
 
Posts: 14 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 27 received


anniebee321 View Post
the pass requirements to be taken on as a full time prop trader with this firm after 3months of training is 40-50 ticks 4 days out of 5 -- does this sound reasonable - yes they charge a fee

Before you pay any money for training, ask the firm how much money they make from trading profits, and how much they make from charging for training. How many trainees have they taken on and of those how many have gone on to achieve that target (or indeed, profitability in general)?

Its important you know this figure, because there are lots of "prop firms" pretending to be trading firms when in fact they are just training firms.

There is a clear conflict of interest where YOU pay for training, and then THEY determine whether you are kept on, or indeed, whether you ever get to go live and trade with real money at all. Remember, it is in their financial interest to get you out the door quickly once your training is done since they keep all your training fee instead of having to let you risk some of it in the markets. Whats better for them, a certain profit from a terminated training contract, or an uncertain profit from a newbie trader. And beleive me, although you will learn a fair bit (subject to the quality of their training) in three months, you will STILL be a newbie trader.

Visit this page for a good discussion of paying for prop trading training.

Then go here and train yourself for free: Free Prop Trader Training

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  #17 (permalink)
Germany / Italy
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: a few...
Trading: all that move nicely, extend your horizons
 
Posts: 67 since Nov 2009
Thanks: 46 given, 32 received

no prop firm or institutional edu here, just learning by wanting to succeed, failing was simply not an option...that helped but was no piece of cake at times...it's been over 9 yrs now, perhaps 7 fulltime.

'two roads diverged in a wood, i took the one less travelled by and that made all the difference'

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  #18 (permalink)
NY
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Esignal, MBT navigator
Trading: Currencies
 
Posts: 2,526 since Jun 2009
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anniebee321 View Post
hi mike,

not looking for a shortcut journey but trying to avoid a zig zag journey full of pot holes!!!
ie a structured route

If you did that then you wouldnt have the great advantage of having had a zigzag journey full of potholes .

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  #19 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

I agree with some of the points, specially with the questions part.. but take it a step further.. ask to speak with the traders on the floor.. speak candidly with them and take them out for drinks to find out more details outside of the floor trading setting where they might not want to be interrupted..

as to some of the comments about learning everything on futures.io (formerly BMT)... there is a place for prop trading firms.. assuming the firm has a method that provides you with an edge, and you can in fact be successful trading that method, then why stumble left and right and pay the tuition to the markets? prop firms will have risk managers, that will aid you on the trading ....

some people have more success with face to face training... others learn by doing swinging it ... others by reading and giving it a try... plenty of flavors to suit your taste..


Bilderberger View Post
Before you pay any money for training, ask the firm how much money they make from trading profits, and how much they make from charging for training. How many trainees have they taken on and of those how many have gone on to achieve that target (or indeed, profitability in general)?

Its important you know this figure, because there are lots of "prop firms" pretending to be trading firms when in fact they are just training firms.

There is a clear conflict of interest where YOU pay for training, and then THEY determine whether you are kept on, or indeed, whether you ever get to go live and trade with real money at all. Remember, it is in their financial interest to get you out the door quickly once your training is done since they keep all your training fee instead of having to let you risk some of it in the markets. Whats better for them, a certain profit from a terminated training contract, or an uncertain profit from a newbie trader. And beleive me, although you will learn a fair bit (subject to the quality of their training) in three months, you will STILL be a newbie trader.

Visit this page for a good discussion of paying for prop trading training.

Then go here and train yourself for free: Free Prop Trader Training


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  #20 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009



Bilderberger View Post

Visit this page for a good discussion of paying for prop trading training.

Then go here and train yourself for free: Free Prop Trader Training

I wanted to say thank you for the link, I have been looking for a structure approach to trading futures (regardless of which market) and from reviewing the "Free Prop Trader Training" link, it looks like what I have been looking for quite a while, so thank you very much.

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October 27, 2010


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