Hi, I've been thinking about the fact that a lot of funding firms put you onto a "livesim" account when you pass their evaluations. Firms like Apex, Ticktick, Topstep have an option for a sim, Earn2Trade also have an option for a sim once you're "funded".

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's passed, and if you've been paid out or not. I know a lot of people say that the firm's goals are different to yours if you're trading sim, and that makes perfect sense to me.

Usually they use a "risk management" system to see how consistent you are, and eventually start copying your trades. But that means that they're not copying you at first, I'd imagine this is why they implement a scaling plan as it limits the amount they may have to pay out.

You get funded, day 1 you have an absolutely amazing day. Following their scaling plan, but only trading 1-2 minis you manage to capture a huge market movement and get $10-$20k on the first day. This is the best day's trading you have ever had.

You then decide that you don't want to put your earnings at risk, so scale back and trade 1-2 micros for the next few days, until you are eligible for a payout(different companies have various rules limiting payouts). So you only make a further $500 in the next month and request a payout.

From their point of view, you have made $20k on sim, and although they may have copied you from the second day, you only make a paltry $500. So if they pay you out, it'll cost them $19.5k. I would imagine they may well refuse to pay you out due to one of their hidden rules(they all seem to have them).

Also if anyone knows who puts you onto a real money live account that'd be good. As far as I know both Topstep and Earn2Trade have sim and real money options. Also TradeDay only has live money with no sim option. Not sure about the others.

HI!
I sucessfully passed the evaluation at Earn2trade, and traded the sim account and withdrew all the money (it was a year ago, I can't remeber if it was 5K or 4K), however they are legit.
Your reasoning is not completly right because the sim account is limited, you can only gain 5K....again this was 1 year ago, I don't know if something changed.
After that the trade really go into the real market.

There was a big discussion about it but I can prove it with a video, if I find it I will post it.
So, yes they are 100% legit.

People who manage to withdraw 1 USD with this prop firms are below 1% so, don't get too much worried, if you make some money they will pay you.

At least they are upfront and honest about it. They cap their losses(your win) to $5k, then put you on real money. Seems like a much fairer risk management strategy than some of the others that keep you on sim indefinitely.

I used to think exactly like you, but in reality it doesn't matter if it's sim money or not! if you are not profitable you won't be profitable in sim either.
So don't get too worried about it. Trade with ftmo, myforex funds etc....they are easier than topstep and earn2trade (2x easier).
The prop firms that keep you always in sim, like ftmo allow you to have a drawdown of 10% and they have a 10% goal.

Even with these "relaxed" parameters the sucess rate is 0,4% (yes zero point four!). I had found some stats in the past and computed this number using stats by myForexFunds.
With Topstep, earn2trade etc.. probably the stats are even worse.

I think that people have no idea of how this the edge actually is and they have no plan for risk management.

I have two funded accounts for now with one of the livesim firms, although I have not made a withdrawal yet because of their minimum active trading days rules, once I'll make a withdrawal I will report back.



Now from what I've gathered so far there are two business models:



Real live account: Firm makes money on profit splitts so they will encourage withdrawals, the bigger the better for them.

Livesim accout: Firm makes money on subscription fees, reset fees and activation fees, they will generally delay or discourage big withdrawals with some antics.



Most livesim funded accounts are never replicated to a real live account, it's not an automatic process nor guaranteed, it's up to the firm discretion to replicate trades live, so I highly doubt even 10% of livesim funded accounts are replicated to a real live account, so the company doesn't make any profit from the profit splitt on probably more than 90% of livesim funded accounts.





Livesim do have a few pros however:



- You can have 20 accounts in copy trading and not affect the real market with your size

- You don't have to be considered as a professional trader (when funded on Topstep for instance you must), in some countries to trade other people funds you have to get licensed otherwise you'll get fined and shut down.



That's about it lol



Now livesim is fine if the funding firm is net positive on subscription fees, reset fees and activation fees compared to payouts.

But you manage those firms as if it's risk (of going under, changing rules, etc...) and diversify, get accounts in at least one real live account firm and accounts in at least 3 livesim firms, and of course your own brokerage account that you fund with the profits that you can hopefully withdraw in a timely manner from your funded accounts.











Livesim firms usually have a 30% consistency rule for payouts, your biggest day PnL can't amount to more than 30% of your total PnL to be eligible for a withdrawal...









Found out about BluSky this week-end, check them out.

They put you in a live account once you pass the evaluation, funds are segregated, and you can call a contact in the introducing broker (Sweet Futures) once you're live to manage daily stop losses and such.

Daily loss limit is kind of tight for my taste at first but once you're funded and past the trailing drawdown it's possible to modify it.

Of course it matters. It's nothing to do with being profitable, that's another subject. My point is that the firm has a different objective to you if you're not trading their capital. If you profit, they lose as they have to pay you out. With a 90/10 split, if you earn $100k they have to pay you $90k, and unless they're copying your trades then they lose out, or they find a way to withhold your money due to a hidden rule. And if you blow the account, they have lost nothing.

Compare this to trading their own capital - you have a huge winning day, they get paid too. So they want you to do well in the markets as they will earn decent money from you. If you earn $100k from trading they get $10k. If you blow the account they lose money.

For me, going with a firm that has an opposing objective to me seems like a bad idea.

I used to think the same but then I changed my mind. Let me explain you why:
1) firms like FTMO or MFF have thousands if not millions of clients, they don't care abot you if you make money or not. They make money out of the fees
2) you think that you can have a big edge on the market, but the edge is smalller than you think. If you trade without any restrictions or rules you will blow up your account in 3 months, now if you add restrictions and rules that you cannot break.... you end up breaking the rules in a couple of weeks and repaying the fees.
3) no one cares if you make some money, even if you make 1 million this are peanuts.... they probably make one million in per week.

Finally to put things into perspective I added the stats provided by MyFOrex funds itself..... I think they removed it but for sometimes they were available and people made videos about them. Compute by yourself the chance of getting paid more than one dollar, according to november stats: it is 0.072% that is less than 1 over 1000.
Consider that MFF is 10x easier than topstep and earn2trade, because there is no trailing drawdown rules etc... and the admitted overal loss is 10% for a 10% goal.

For me the big advantage of the firms that use Metatrader is that I can control risk with robots. So you can develop your own software solution to avoid breaking rules. When I break even I trade for free, I do not have to pay the "monthly" fee like in the other firms.
Anyway try with the firm that you like the most and let me know how it goes.