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Order Flow Analytics (www.orderflowanalytics.com)
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Order Flow Analytics (www.orderflowanalytics.com)

  #81 (permalink)
Elite Member
Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States
 
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Init View Post
I cant believe I stumbled on this OFA thread.
I just finished a 2 month training with them. Its funny to hear the wide range of views about his technology. I can tell you that after 19 years of position and swing trading, the last year or so, I have decided to be a full time trader. Now i'm in the process of getting my plan together for daytrading around my swing and core positions. With daytrading, I knew I wanted to start at the meat of price action. I chose OFA, It was $2500 for the video library and live trading room for 2 months.(which I just finished)
then its $2500 for the OFA pro package software
Then its $2500 for a few more options and his "trade tracker" technology which is what looks like a slidescale that is tracking buying and selling flows AFTER you are in the trade. The algo parameters identify qualified momentum shifts and automatically takes you out. Nobody in the room trades without it. (for exits only)
You can adjust the parameters in more volitile markets or just click it off.
His volume cluster charts are designed with the same momentum shifts which makes a new bar on every shift. So his charts look nothing like i've ever seen. You see all price action for that bar in the form of one directional monentum segment. I'ts weired but cool. I was still trading my 15sec and 2min charts while using his posted traderoom chart for my entries. This is no lie, Combining orderflow trading with my swing style has been the majic stick for me.
I have not bought the software yet. Thats why its funny I found this because I'm trying see if there is anything similar here. So far my head is spinning with the cool ways you all work together building stuff.
I can say that OFA is pretty expensive but is in no way, a scam
As with any software, If you aren't consistant with your rules and cut losses, no software will help
It will take me a month to look at all the stuff thats here. I'm excited!

Hello Init. Thanks for the review. Have you made the investment in the software yet? When I went through their sales pitch it seemed that the training and software went hand in hand?

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  #82 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
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OFA

Wow, i just stumbled on this thread. Interesting discussion on a topic that no one really understands.

I'm a student of OFA and has been since late September. I took their original training (and I did not do a demo with them before I just jumped in) along with software for the pro version for 2 months. After that, i decided to go all in and become a specialist student (mainly, accessing trade room for one year, after that, $25 per month and unlimited support or questions on anything).

All i can say is that the vast majority of comments on this thread are wrong about OFA.

It is NOT:

1. Market Delta/Market Profile
2. Cumulative Delta
3. Black box system.

Basically, the guy puts up his entire trading system and lets you see his methodology in complete honesty. When DB calls trades, he tells you exactly the price he's looking for BEFORE the price gets there. you won't see any: "Oh, i just made 4 points off this trade at xx.xx" post action. The question is obviously, why he' splacing the trade at that location and that's what part of OFA is all about - knowing where to put in the entry.

The room is really two groups of people: one are a solid bunch who are there mostly every day who have been with DB and orderflow for a long time (one guy was there in 2007 when there wasn't the software, just DB on the speaker explaining his method).

The training itself consists of theory about orderflow, the software, and a comprehensive trading plan/system that covers from consistency of results to money management. It's basically everything except indicators and price action except in the general term of chart structure. It is very comprehensive for the regular trading tactics course.

The specialist course is about having unlimited support and access to trading room for a year (and after that, $25 per month) as well as 35 patterns (price action/chart structure) that you can look for potential trades. I don't think you need the specialist course but I knew going in I was going to stay in the room for at least 8-10 months to learn this stuff, so I might as well get it all).

As far as whether it works - it all depends on how consistent you are and whether you're the type of person who jumps system to system, spending 3-4 months each and never understanding it before you move on, or whether you can dedicate yourself at it. After 5 months, I can honestly say my problems as a futures trader is me, it's not anything or anyone else, but me I have done analysis on my trades massively over the break and realize that most of my losses occur on days when I get emotional and didn't follow risk management plan. If those days were just average loss days instead of emotional/blown out days, I would be profitable. Instead of accepting losses, i kept trading and made the day a lot worse. Knowing when to stop trading is as key as knowing when to trade

But that's the case for ANY system you're using and any method you are using. All I can say is that OFA works for me but I am in it for the long term. I really love the fact that i can limit my risk down to 2-3 ticks (in fact, my average loss in December was 0.30, or more than one tick on the trades. Max loss was 3 ticks, average gain was 3-4 ticks, max gain was 12 ticks). That's one part of OFA that is very valuable - knowing where to enter a trade with low risk.

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The following 3 users say Thank You to paganini for this post:
 
  #83 (permalink)
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Germany
 
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It seems like OFA does use volume traded at price in form of short term volume clusters to see where the majority of stops are or where there is a short term support and resistance area that might hold, or am I wrong ?

This at least could be achieved with most charting programs that use Market Profile, for a much lower price imho, unless OFA has a unique way of looking at volume.


Last edited by TheSeeker; January 16th, 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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  #84 (permalink)
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paganini View Post
But that's the case for ANY system you're using and any method you are using. All I can say is that OFA works for me but I am in it for the long term. I really love the fact that i can limit my risk down to 2-3 ticks (in fact, my average loss in December was 0.30, or more than one tick on the trades. Max loss was 3 ticks, average gain was 3-4 ticks, max gain was 12 ticks). That's one part of OFA that is very valuable - knowing where to enter a trade with low risk.

These stats sound good, what's your percentage of winning trades ?

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  #85 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, Texas
 
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TheSeeker View Post
It seems like OFA does use volume traded at price in form of short term volume clusters to see where the majority of stops are or where there is a short term support and resistance area that might hold, or am I wrong ?

This at least could be achieved with most charting programs that use Market Profile, for a much lower price imho, unless OFA has a unique way of looking at volume.


Nope. Not even close. I have actually trialed market delta at the same time after I bought OFA.

While a very skill trader could POTENTIALLY glean the same data from marketdelta with different charts, OFA is just simpler. I can potentially see myself using market delta and trying to get the same data after using it for 5 months, but it's simply not the same. OFA isn't based on time, nor is it based on ranges. So, POTENTIALLY if you want to open multiple charts, etc. you can get similar information in marketdelta but you have to know what you're doing.

And it's NOT market profile. Not even close.

As far as costs go - are you telling me that $170 a month or whatever MarketDelta charges you is CHEAPER in the long run? OFA's base package if you just want volume clusters is $1500. $2500 has the proprietary stuff and $5000 includes the trade tracker, etc. So, just based on simple volume cluster, $1500 versus $170 or whatever per month. In a year, you'd be better off with OFA.

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  #86 (permalink)
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TheSeeker View Post
These stats sound good, what's your percentage of winning trades ?


Around 55-60%.

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  #87 (permalink)
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paganini View Post
Nope. Not even close. I have actually trialed market delta at the same time after I bought OFA.

While a very skill trader could POTENTIALLY glean the same data from marketdelta with different charts, OFA is just simpler. I can potentially see myself using market delta and trying to get the same data after using it for 5 months, but it's simply not the same. OFA isn't based on time, nor is it based on ranges. So, POTENTIALLY if you want to open multiple charts, etc. you can get similar information in marketdelta but you have to know what you're doing.

And it's NOT market profile. Not even close.

As far as costs go - are you telling me that $170 a month or whatever MarketDelta charges you is CHEAPER in the long run? OFA's base package if you just want volume clusters is $1500. $2500 has the proprietary stuff and $5000 includes the trade tracker, etc. So, just based on simple volume cluster, $1500 versus $170 or whatever per month. In a year, you'd be better off with OFA.


So OFA DOES look at volume clusters, even if in different way ?


You don't need to use MarketDelta if you primarily care for the volume profile and not for the "Delta" btw, if you have Ninjatrader you could use GomiLadder which apparently is free for EliteMembers or at least costs very little, there are several other inexpensive options.

If OFA works for you, then I'm all for it, it is just important to know what OFA is based on. If someone with a good knowledge of Market Profile bought the whole OFA stuff only to find out that it's essentially a repackaged version of MP, he/she would be very pi$$ed.

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  #88 (permalink)
Elite Member
New York, United States
 
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Ben16JP2's Avatar
 
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Hi Paganini,

Does DB really calls trades now and explains why he chooses the location? I was their about a year ago and I never saw that. DB's charts would be up, there would be a pre-market commentary, and maybe a session of explaining OFA in the afternoon, but no live market commentary when I was their, except when Johnathan would fill in for DB.

I might check them out again.



paganini View Post

Basically, the guy puts up his entire trading system and lets you see his methodology in complete honesty. When DB calls trades, he tells you exactly the price he's looking for BEFORE the price gets there. you won't see any: "Oh, i just made 4 points off this trade at xx.xx" post action. The question is obviously, why he' splacing the trade at that location and that's what part of OFA is all about - knowing where to put in the entry.

The room is really two groups of people: one are a solid bunch who are there mostly every day who have been with DB and orderflow for a long time (one guy was there in 2007 when there wasn't the software, just DB on the speaker explaining his method).


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  #89 (permalink)
Elite Member
Vancouver, BC
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Amp Futures/CQG and Interactive Brokers
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exiledgoblin's Avatar
 
Posts: 65 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 6 given, 14 received

Quick questions:

1. You said there were two groups in the room but only described one. How would you characterize the second group?
2. Trying to get a fix on your profitability. Avg loss 3 ticks. Avg win 3-4 ticks. Win/Loss ratio 55-60%. Is that about right or did I misread you?



paganini View Post
Wow, i just stumbled on this thread. Interesting discussion on a topic that no one really understands.

I'm a student of OFA and has been since late September. I took their original training (and I did not do a demo with them before I just jumped in) along with software for the pro version for 2 months. After that, i decided to go all in and become a specialist student (mainly, accessing trade room for one year, after that, $25 per month and unlimited support or questions on anything).

All i can say is that the vast majority of comments on this thread are wrong about OFA.

It is NOT:

1. Market Delta/Market Profile
2. Cumulative Delta
3. Black box system.

Basically, the guy puts up his entire trading system and lets you see his methodology in complete honesty. When DB calls trades, he tells you exactly the price he's looking for BEFORE the price gets there. you won't see any: "Oh, i just made 4 points off this trade at xx.xx" post action. The question is obviously, why he' splacing the trade at that location and that's what part of OFA is all about - knowing where to put in the entry.

The room is really two groups of people: one are a solid bunch who are there mostly every day who have been with DB and orderflow for a long time (one guy was there in 2007 when there wasn't the software, just DB on the speaker explaining his method).

The training itself consists of theory about orderflow, the software, and a comprehensive trading plan/system that covers from consistency of results to money management. It's basically everything except indicators and price action except in the general term of chart structure. It is very comprehensive for the regular trading tactics course.

The specialist course is about having unlimited support and access to trading room for a year (and after that, $25 per month) as well as 35 patterns (price action/chart structure) that you can look for potential trades. I don't think you need the specialist course but I knew going in I was going to stay in the room for at least 8-10 months to learn this stuff, so I might as well get it all).

As far as whether it works - it all depends on how consistent you are and whether you're the type of person who jumps system to system, spending 3-4 months each and never understanding it before you move on, or whether you can dedicate yourself at it. After 5 months, I can honestly say my problems as a futures trader is me, it's not anything or anyone else, but me I have done analysis on my trades massively over the break and realize that most of my losses occur on days when I get emotional and didn't follow risk management plan. If those days were just average loss days instead of emotional/blown out days, I would be profitable. Instead of accepting losses, i kept trading and made the day a lot worse. Knowing when to stop trading is as key as knowing when to trade

But that's the case for ANY system you're using and any method you are using. All I can say is that OFA works for me but I am in it for the long term. I really love the fact that i can limit my risk down to 2-3 ticks (in fact, my average loss in December was 0.30, or more than one tick on the trades. Max loss was 3 ticks, average gain was 3-4 ticks, max gain was 12 ticks). That's one part of OFA that is very valuable - knowing where to enter a trade with low risk.


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  #90 (permalink)
Elite Member
Austin, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 22 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 1 given, 13 received


I don't know what you're talking about - he'll call trades and tell you where he's looking at trading with conditional orders, etc. ANd if you ask him later, he'll tell you why.

But I am not sure why you'll be in the room with them without the software. It makes zero sense for people to do that.




Ben16JP2 View Post
Hi Paganini,

Does DB really calls trades now and explains why he chooses the location? I was their about a year ago and I never saw that. DB's charts would be up, there would be a pre-market commentary, and maybe a session of explaining OFA in the afternoon, but no live market commentary when I was their, except when Johnathan would fill in for DB.

I might check them out again.


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