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Order Flow Analytics (www.orderflowanalytics.com)

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  #101 (permalink)
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BeachTrader View Post
DionysusToast,

I believe paganini uses the Trade Tracker. I don't have it, but my understanding is that the tracker manages the stop for you based on the current order flow. So the ES may go up 1 tick, but if the order flow becomes negative the tracker may take you out at minus 1 tick in order to prevent a potential larger stop out. The stop doesn't start at minus 1 tick which as you say, wouldn't make sense.

I do admire the way you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But think about it...

A break even trade isn't a loser.

A losing trade is minimum 1 tick.

For your average to be 1 tick, you effectively have to have your max loss @ 1 tick.

It's just not feasible.

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  #102 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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DionysusToast View Post
A break even trade isn't a loser.

Sure he is....

Commissions... Platforms... Feeds...

Time invested...

Opportunity costs...

Mike

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Big Mike View Post
Sure he is....

Commissions... Platforms... Feeds...

Time invested...

Opportunity costs...

Mike

So then not being in a trade is also a loser? Time invested, opportunity cost, platforms, feeds?

OK - perhaps on futures.io (formerly BMT) you guys have average losing trades of 1 tick.

Here on planet earth meanwhile...

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DionysusToast View Post
OK - perhaps on futures.io (formerly BMT) you guys have average losing trades of 1 tick.

Here on planet earth meanwhile...

Of course not. I didn't say anything like that.

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  #105 (permalink)
 YuvalW 
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AFAIK OFA bars has nothing to do with volume. It is a 4 ticks reversal chart, where the direction of the bar is determined only after you get a 7 ticks range (called "probe"), and then 4 ticks reversal.

Say bar opens at 1234.25 goes up to 1235.75, thats a 6 ticks range, so no direction determined yet, next price goes down to 1234, now you got a 7 ticks range, the 7th tick was down, so now a 4 ticks up move will open a new bar.

Cant say it is better than the regular 4 or 6 ticks reversal bars, sometimes it is sometimes not.

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  #106 (permalink)
 paganini 
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No one is putting 1 tick stop loss on the order.

And yes, getting 1-2 tick stop loss average is perfectly doable, especially with the tracker. YOu also have to undersatnd that break even trades happen.

The actual raw stop loss is 3-4 ticks away but the tracker takes the trade out a lot sooner than the hard stop.

And no, i don't use market orders and yes, it is possible to get to the exact tick at times.






DionysusToast View Post
Reason I asked that question - my opinion is that an average loss size of 1 lot is impossible.

If you take all of your losses and average them out, you can't have a lower stop than 1 tick. This means max stop is also 1 tick. That's the pedant in me talking...

The trader in me thinks about this:



There are always 2 prices in the market. Hence a 1 tick stop is nonsense.

Market Orders
If you took the above example, we have 1165 bid, 1165.25 offered. If you sold at market you would sell at 1165. Once sold, your 1 tick stop loss would be at 1165.25, the current inside offer. So - at this point you are not only betting that the market will move down but you are also betting that this will occur before anyone puts in a buy market order. The moment that just a 1 lot market buy order comes in from Joe Retail you will stop out.

Nobody trades like that. Nobody can trade with enough accuracy that they know the price will tick down before someone else puts a buy market order in UNLESS their order is large enough to tick the marked down through the inside bid. In this case that would be 61 contracts or more. Even then you also have to know that no-one will add to your bid.

Limit Orders
Let's say you want to sell with a limit order. This time you want to join the limit order at 1165.25. There are 17 contracts ahead of you. So - your entry price would be 1165.25 and your stop 1165.50.

So - you put in your limit order. Let's say 5 contracts. Now you need 22 buy market orders to hit the offer and get you filled. If there are 23 market orders, then you will get filled and then price will tick up, 1165.50 will trade and you will stop out.

17 buy market orders - you don't get filled
22 buy market orders - you get a full fill
23 buy market orders - you get filled and stopped out

In either case, the 1 lot stop is a ludicrous proposition and needs you to not only get direction right but to actually know the future to an impossible degree.

I can't see how anyone that says they an average 1 tick stop is actually trading live. It simply can't happen. To do it, you actually need your stop placed as soon as your fill - if you don't do that then you are going to be losing 2+ ticks and your average will be more than 1 tick...


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  #107 (permalink)
 paganini 
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A break-even trade is a loser - that's how NT calculates it anyway - the winning ratio is done by looking at the winners in the gains.

So yes, at times the tracker will take out the trade at break even, at times it will take it out at -1 ticks, -2 ticks - it depends on the settings.




DionysusToast View Post
I do admire the way you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But think about it...

A break even trade isn't a loser.

A losing trade is minimum 1 tick.

For your average to be 1 tick, you effectively have to have your max loss @ 1 tick.

It's just not feasible.


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  #108 (permalink)
 paganini 
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BTW, your scenario with the DOM is overly simplistic.

You're assuming that there is 25 contracts on the ASK/BID and that's that. You're not accounting for additional market depth colming in (new orders hittin the same price). To me, orderflow trading is about where potential market depth occurs, it's NOT just reading bid/ask volume - that's TRADE FLOW, not ORDER FLOW. You're looking at prices that has already occured.

Perfect example - on the ES, the limit/ask is often 300-400 contracts, and yet, we see 2000-3000-4000 printed all the time and the price doesn't move. Why? Additional market depth.

Like wise, you'll see DOM showing 2000-3000 contracts and as soon as it ticks up there, those contracts dissappear because market makers are paid to place those orders in, they really have no intention of being filled. Reading the dom like that isn't all that helpful.

No one is forcing you to buy OFA or use free tools if you think you can replicate it. I'm just sharing my experience here. As far as the tracker result goes - the one i was using has a really really tight settings (and as I said, the average gain is only 3 ticks because it's aggressive enough that any shift in the volume automatically takes out the trade. Put it this way - if there is a vaccum (less market depth), prices will trade and move, agreed? So as soon as hits market depth or bid volume shifting, it'll take it out of the trade if it's long. Because the setting is so tight that as soon as the prices rise/fall due to lack of market depth and assoon as it hits a slight wall of resistance, it will take it out of the trade.

And if you think you can't trade with a say, 2 tick stop on the ES, you're just wrong. Just read the chart and find where the ranges are, how many times do you see it creep out 1-3 ticks beyond the range beofore it reverses? ALL the time. Now, if you're trading in the middle of the churn, yeah, you'll get burned - and taht's where GOMI, etc. will also show the biggest volume. That's NOT where i'd want to be, especially in the recent weeks since January when ES has been in a major churn, 4-6 point range days.

And this is why most people who uses orderflow type of tools or volume tools don't get it - it's not just "buying at the biggest ask volume". Wish it was that easy.






DionysusToast View Post
I do admire the way you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But think about it...

A break even trade isn't a loser.

A losing trade is minimum 1 tick.

For your average to be 1 tick, you effectively have to have your max loss @ 1 tick.

It's just not feasible.


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  #109 (permalink)
 paganini 
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BeachTrader View Post
DionysusToast,

I believe paganini uses the Trade Tracker. I don't have it, but my understanding is that the tracker manages the stop for you based on the current order flow. So the ES may go up 1 tick, but if the order flow becomes negative the tracker may take you out at minus 1 tick in order to prevent a potential larger stop out. The stop doesn't start at minus 1 tick which as you say, wouldn't make sense.


You're exactly right. My hard stop is actually bigger. But, he's also wrong in assuming that just becauase you buy at 1234.00 with 100 contracts there, that as soon as you get 101 contracts, it'll down tick. He's assuming no one will will put in new orders. Orderflow is about trading where potential market depth occurs. In means, ADDITIONAL volume should come in and for the most part, I can actuall live with a 3 tick stop loss without using the tracker. The tracker is simply icing on the cake.

And what you describe is what the tracker does. It takes you out of the trade when it sees volume shifts against you but also has the same issue when you hit a wall of volume when you're profitable, it will take you out. So, tighter the setting, tighter your target/profit is.

I just find in open forums like Big Mike's people have the wrong assumptions on whatever they want to discuss. They all think that everyone is wrong and they're right, but yet, 90% of traders lose money and most are undercapitalized.

Maybe Dionysus will now argue that you can't take a 2-3 tick stop on the ES either lol. Like I said, my hard stop is more often than not, 3 ticks, and some trades, 2 ticks. Just look at the ES and see how often momentum traders get completely TRAPPED and CREAMED by buying on some range breakout, only to see the prices pop 1-4 ticks and reverse back into the range. The FUN one are the ones that goes up about 8-10 ticks on a break out, only to fall all the way through the range. Those are fun, because they generate massive retail trader stop runs, trapping both the long and the short. (i..e. momenum traders who bought 1 point beyond the range, see it hit 1 point above them and PROMPTLY drove down below the range, taking out their stops 7-8 ticks away. Meanwhile, people who shorted at previous high got stopped out at 7-8 ticks above it and only to see their original direction is correct.

And yes, every now and then I don't get my order filled on an entry while if i was using a market order, i probably could get filled. But that's trading. I typically try to limit the number of trades, if i can, down to 2-3 on the ES per day. And sometimes, the tracker can get really aggressive and take me out of a trade at -1, -2, or break even and only to see the trade goes up 7-8 ticks. Sure, that happens. Nothing is absolute in trading. People who are looking at some magical indicator and stop run lines, free indicators, etc. to work are going to be sorely dissappointed. You have to last long enough and you have to learn what you're doing.

To me, trading is a business and I don't see any business that you can be successful in with a $5000 investment. Most retail business out there requires a capital of $50-100k, minimum (restaurant, whatever). Trading is no different and most businesses fail in 5 years also. Not sure why people are so jaded to question others' motives It's funny how it works. Then again, most people don't own their own business (i do, trading is not the main income) and so most people don't understands how easy it is to fail running your own business.

So yes, there will always be people questioning $10,000 or $5000 for OFA depending on the training, etc. All I can say is that the value is definitely there, and whether you believe it or not is up to you.

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  #110 (permalink)
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paganini View Post
BTW, your scenario with the DOM is overly simplistic.

You're assuming that there is 25 contracts on the ASK/BID and that's that. You're not accounting for additional market depth colming in (new orders hittin the same price). To me, orderflow trading is about where potential market depth occurs, it's NOT just reading bid/ask volume - that's TRADE FLOW, not ORDER FLOW. You're looking at prices that has already occured.

Perfect example - on the ES, the limit/ask is often 300-400 contracts, and yet, we see 2000-3000-4000 printed all the time and the price doesn't move. Why? Additional market depth.

Like wise, you'll see DOM showing 2000-3000 contracts and as soon as it ticks up there, those contracts dissappear because market makers are paid to place those orders in, they really have no intention of being filled. Reading the dom like that isn't all that helpful.

No one is forcing you to buy OFA or use free tools if you think you can replicate it. I'm just sharing my experience here. As far as the tracker result goes - the one i was using has a really really tight settings (and as I said, the average gain is only 3 ticks because it's aggressive enough that any shift in the volume automatically takes out the trade. Put it this way - if there is a vaccum (less market depth), prices will trade and move, agreed? So as soon as hits market depth or bid volume shifting, it'll take it out of the trade if it's long. Because the setting is so tight that as soon as the prices rise/fall due to lack of market depth and assoon as it hits a slight wall of resistance, it will take it out of the trade.

And if you think you can't trade with a say, 2 tick stop on the ES, you're just wrong. Just read the chart and find where the ranges are, how many times do you see it creep out 1-3 ticks beyond the range beofore it reverses? ALL the time. Now, if you're trading in the middle of the churn, yeah, you'll get burned - and taht's where GOMI, etc. will also show the biggest volume. That's NOT where i'd want to be, especially in the recent weeks since January when ES has been in a major churn, 4-6 point range days.

And this is why most people who uses orderflow type of tools or volume tools don't get it - it's not just "buying at the biggest ask volume". Wish it was that easy.

Paganini...

I use order flow. I trade. I make a profit. I don't use OFA. I have seen what they have, I have spoken to George. I think it looks OK. As a vendor in a related field, it doesn't actually clash with what I have. I think they are cool guys.

On the other hand, I think your claims of having an average loss of 1 point is an insult to the readership of futures.io (formerly BMT). Just my opinion.

My example was simplistic. Still - the fact is, you can't trade with a stop equal to the spread. It has nothing to do with depth, it just requires you to be right to a degree that is impossible. Once you get that, then of course averaging a 1 tick stop is also a ludicrous proposition.

I can tell you at times when price will move up. I sure CANNOT tell you that it will move up before Joe retail puts in a market sell order. Hence you can't have a 1 point stop.

It's best to ignore this. I sometimes see silly comments on trading sites and I can't help to point out the silliness. Now you are saying sometimes it's 2 ticks. Well - you trade the ES like that day in day out, your hit rate will be in the low 30%s...

Treasuries - sure, the ES - it's not feasible with the way it moves. Not with all the magic bullets in the world.

This whole 1 point stop thing is ludicrous, OK? It's not worth telling people they can have a 1 point stop. It certainly does nothing for OFA to have people saying it's a magic bullet.

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paganini View Post
You're exactly right. My hard stop is actually bigger. But, he's also wrong in assuming that just becauase you buy at 1234.00 with 100 contracts there, that as soon as you get 101 contracts, it'll down tick. He's assuming no one will will put in new orders. Orderflow is about trading where potential market depth occurs. In means, ADDITIONAL volume should come in and for the most part, I can actuall live with a 3 tick stop loss without using the tracker. The tracker is simply icing on the cake.
.

Cool - we've gone from 1 to 2 to 3. Good stuff.

Re-read my post.

You put in a limit order for 1 contract with 2000 people ahead of you.

Then you get hit because the 2000 got traded or pulled.

Then you need people behind to stop price going past your entry because your stops is 1 tick away.

Well - that's a degree of accuracy no-one trades off.

I know your stop is bigger than 1 tick. I explained above.

Average 3 tick loss - a much more reasonable claim. I wont push you for any increase above.

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  #112 (permalink)
 paganini 
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Again, you're not reading my thread.

I said the AVERAGE LOSS is 1 tick (it's actually 0.30 if you read my previous post). That's not where i place my stop. My stop is typically 3 ticks away. The tracker is aggressive enough to take it out.

Now you'll probably argue it's not possible to have a 3 tick or 2 tick stop, lol. It all depends on where you place your entry is. At what point does it invalidate your trade, etc.

When I place an order, i expect two things:

1. market depth to hold
2. market action to the direction i want, almost right off the bat.

And yes, 5000 1 lot traders can decide to sell the bid and causing it to downtick. The tracker may as well take it out. That's just part of trading. It might reverse, but in your example, there is no guarantee that if you're looking at big lot traders, that they'll continue to come in. Right? Am I going to wait until it blows over and take a 2 point stop loss? No. That's what the tracker is designed to do.

And a lot of times i can see it in the tracker that it takes me out at break even or -1 tick and only to see the prices go up a tick or so (uptick) and then fall like a ton of bricks. If i stayed in there, my losses would be 5-7 ticks at least with the regular stops that people are using. I am not planning on being everyone else.

The trade results with that particular tracker setting was about just under 60%, 40% losers/breakevens, etc. The average loss is 0.30 (so just beyond one tick), the average gain is 3 ticks.

As far as trading with 2-3 tick HARD stops? That's all I do. I am not interested in looking at 50 trades a day, i am intersted in taking 3-4 trades in particular areas (think edges in particular). I am also looking at strategies that would require a 5 tick stop but with bigger gains but on the ES as of late, the market is in some 5 point range in the morning and just churns - not interested.

Perfect example - look at FRIDAY's ES, low range in the morning was what, 1362.50. I actually traded this one, on the next retracement at 1363.25 (low was 1363.00, twice again) Are you saying you can't get away with a 3 tick stop? (You can see this on a 3 minute, 5 minute chart, etc.) It was based on potential for previous volume being unwound there, plus the previous reversal low. This is where some Elliot wave guy will say it's a 90% retracement of the previous run, it's just a dang stop run

Price hits 1366.25. The volume cluster near the top was at 1365.25 (on the low edge of that cluster). Typical ES stop is what, 8-10 ticks? 1365.25 means in a stop run it'll likely to hit 1363.25 to 1362.75. Gee, where did the retracement went to?

So what stop level at 1363.25 would you choose? 2 point range make sense? Not to me. I might be able to tolerate 2 ticks out of the ranges say 1362.00, but nothing more. And the volume on the previous reversal can tell you when it no longer makes sense, and it won't be a 8 tick stop. Anything more than 8-10 tick from the 1366.25 cluster means a potential for a break down - since we're the near the edge and we're expecting market depth to hold. Why would I risk that? You can be the guy who get flushed, if you want.

Oh another perfect example - i didn't trade this one since i don't trade past 11 am usually central time - low at 1363.75. Why did it stop there? Look at the previous lows (1363.00) where i traded - market depth, big volume support, it paused there, jumped a flush (2 point up again) before continuing lower.

So a 2-3 tick stop depending on where you place the order is perfectly reasonable. If you are going with the momentum/market order, etc. then it's probably not feasible for you. Put simply: i am expecting market depth, if it's not even there, i am getting out of it, and fast.

And yes, sometimes, i don't get filled at the price I want, but that's trading.



DionysusToast View Post
Paganini...

I use order flow. I trade. I make a profit. I don't use OFA. I have seen what they have, I have spoken to George. I think it looks OK. As a vendor in a related field, it doesn't actually clash with what I have. I think they are cool guys.

On the other hand, I think your claims of having an average loss of 1 point is an insult to the readership of futures.io (formerly BMT). Just my opinion.

My example was simplistic. Still - the fact is, you can't trade with a stop equal to the spread. It has nothing to do with depth, it just requires you to be right to a degree that is impossible. Once you get that, then of course averaging a 1 tick stop is also a ludicrous proposition.

I can tell you at times when price will move up. I sure CANNOT tell you that it will move up before Joe retail puts in a market sell order. Hence you can't have a 1 point stop.

It's best to ignore this. I sometimes see silly comments on trading sites and I can't help to point out the silliness. Now you are saying sometimes it's 2 ticks. Well - you trade the ES like that day in day out, your hit rate will be in the low 30%s...

Treasuries - sure, the ES - it's not feasible with the way it moves. Not with all the magic bullets in the world.

This whole 1 point stop thing is ludicrous, OK? It's not worth telling people they can have a 1 point stop. It certainly does nothing for OFA to have people saying it's a magic bullet.


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  #113 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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You're pretty dense, aren't you?

LET ME REPEAT IT - the tracker results yielded 1 tick average loss (the tracker does not use STOP LOSS orders for closing trades, duh!!!) or rather, 0.30 in the value. and 3 tick average gain.

The physical hard stop is at 3 ticks usually - and that's rarely ever hit with the tracker on. So your claim that it's average 3 tick loss is WRONG. In other words, the tracker is TAKING OUT THE TRADE before it hits the hard stop. Heck, I can trade without the hard stop and just let the tracker manage it but the hard stop is there in case electricity goes down at the house, internet disruptions, etc. So you're assuming i put in a stop loss at 1 tick?? No, i never said that, i said the AVERAGE LOSS was just a bit more than one tick (0.30). In other words, the tracker is providing stop losses equivalent to 1 tick.

You get that now? THe tracker doesn't uses stop loss orders to manage trades, it takes you out when it sees volume against you. The hard stop is there for a different reason.

However, I have done trades with 2 ticks or 3 tick HARD STOPs, with or without the tracker and it's perfectly reasonable depending on where you trade. That's right, 2 ticks hard stop, and it works depending on the trade setups.

Read the last post about the trade that was taken. That was with a 3 tick hard stop (no tracker for that one since it's a big churn day) - and yeah, i can get away with 2 tick stops but i don't use 2 ticks stop for that type of setup, plus there were volme information that makes sense for a 3 tick stop there.

As far as the tracker results were, they are at an average of 0.30 loss, profit at about 3 ticks on average. You were asking about stop loss, well to me, a 0.30 loss on average is the average stop loss. PHysically you can't place an order at 1 tick below, but that doesn't mean the tracker can't manage it that way.

I find it ludicrous that you simply question motives from people on the forum - this is the reason why they don't do free trials, now you know.

btw, i also have YOUR product and uses it differently.




DionysusToast View Post
Cool - we've gone from 1 to 2 to 3. Good stuff.

Re-read my post.

You put in a limit order for 1 contract with 2000 people ahead of you.

Then you get hit because the 2000 got traded or pulled.

Then you need people behind to stop price going past your entry because your stops is 1 tick away.

Well - that's a degree of accuracy no-one trades off.

I know your stop is bigger than 1 tick. I explained above.

Average 3 tick loss - a much more reasonable claim. I wont push you for any increase above.


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  #114 (permalink)
 paganini 
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Dionysus, let me explain how the tracker works:

Say you place an order at 1234.00, stop loss is your average retail trader stop, 1232.00. When I say stop loss, i meant the ORDER not the actual loss.

Tracker is on, it manages. Let's say it down tick to 1233.75 bid, 1234.00 ask with tremendous volume. Tracker sees that and takes you out, -1 tick.

The actual loss is -1 tick, NOT -8 ticks.

Get it now? The stop loss order is there for a different reason. The tracker takes you out when volume condition changes.

On the flip side to that, it can go to 1233.50 and leave you in the trade if the volume condition isn't bad.

It can also, for example, let's say you get in 1234, market moves to 1235.50. Volume shifts down and it downticks to 1235.00 bid/1235.25 ask. It'll then close the trade immediately and you get filled at 1235.00

That's how tracker works - it VOIDS your original stoploss order and closes the trade MUCH FASTER than your hard stop. So while my hard stop may be 3 ticks or 5 ticks or 8 ticks or 100 ticks away, the tracker will close based on its settings and the volume condition.

Do you understand how that works now? This is why it can do a average loss of 0.30 (just beyond 1 tick), because the majority of trades are closed at -1 tick or break even, the hard stop of 3 ticks, etc. is RARELY ever hit.

Why else would I use the tracker if all it does is give the same result as my hard stop? THe point for the tracker is to improve the results, minimize losses and more importantly drawdowns. Again it is set to be very tight.

I actually get that trade report (this is why i know the numbers) to get it retuned for a new tracker setting in early January - the new tracker setting with the same set of trades yielded:

49% winning trades, 41% losing, 10% break even, average win 7 ticks, average loss -2 ticks (yep, it's more but bigger gains), largest win is 17 ticks (versus 9), largest loss -4 ticks. Largest drawdown is -5 ticks, average drawdown -2 ticks. Gains went from 28 to 94 ticks with the new setting. I haven't tested it much since the market has just been a big churn.

I just don't understand why you'd question someone's motives, Dionysus, without even understanding how the tools work. Heck, i have your tools, and I certainly won't rave for or against it one way or the other until i have use it for a while in action.

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  #115 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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paganini View Post
You're pretty dense, aren't you?

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  #116 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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Sorry Mike, will try my best to ignore Dionysus



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  #117 (permalink)
 TimeTrade 
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1..n Tick... i think its better you say:

The OFA TradeTracker use a combination of PriceMovement, OrderBookTiming and a propitary "Vola" as stopmanagement and a "delta since entry" calculation for the target management.
Bad entrys will have smaller loss, good entry will have a better winn... this is the message in all OFA promotion videos... only never will show the exact parameter values for the current symbol & market conditions... only on the expansive boot camp course give more and deeper infos for the config and using the trade tracker (!only AFTER PAY!)

If you mine, the non public parameter settings give the warranty for different user settings and this is good for the small limit entrys&stops... please say it clearly and give a ~ count of OFA users with the same settings.
Yes, you can track this and i hope you do this without using this for your own trading with very small stop/targets (1..3ticks on "your own" significant volume price markers).
The bad word for this is "frontrunning"... i hope and think you not do this and/or you have only small size users without a significant volume.

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  #118 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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I don't understand what you just wrote.

The tracker settings are tuned to your actual CONSISTENT trading entries (the key word is consistency). You have to submit an actual report over a period of time. The tracker is then tuned to that specific set of trades.

And it's set broadly enough so that it will work in different volume conditions.

However, if you take settings that was made in August and apply to January when it just churns, it won't work. In fact, orderflow requires market movement - can't work well when the market just sits in a 3 point range in an hour.

I don't see why giving out settings would matter to you - it's my trades, dude. It's not yours. Unless you trade exactly the same way I do, it won't help you one bit. And the settings are proprietary, meaning it's basically a set of three values, but the actual kill/lines, etc. algorithms are proprietary, so giving it out would totally meaningless.

Good luck in your endevers. If you think paying $10,000 for software plus one of the best training i have ever done, EVER, then don't pay. Trading is a business - and in businesses, how many small business do you think get started with a $5000 investment? VERY VERY VERY FEW. Try owning a retail shop in the US anywhere, it'll cost at least $50-100k. Trading is no different. That cost in capital comes in - software/platforms/ofa/marketdelta/whatever you use, and of course, your losses in trying to undertsand the market.

The results i posted is actual trades using actual trade trackers in ES market between the hours of 7:30 am to 10:30 am central time (some are premarket). I don't really trade after 11 am. NT reports average loss is 0.30, what am i going to argue with NT's trade results? YMMV.

"FRONT RUNNING?" What the hell. Listen, i don't own OFA, i am a user. LOL, front running, lol. maybe it's the bad English but i have a hard time understanding what you wrote.




TimeTrade View Post
1..n Tick... i think its better you say:

The OFA TradeTracker use a combination of PriceMovement, OrderBookTiming and a propitary "Vola" as stopmanagement and a "delta since entry" calculation for the target management.
Bad entrys will have smaller loss, good entry will have a better winn... this is the message in all OFA promotion videos... only never will show the exact parameter values for the current symbol & market conditions... only on the expansive boot camp course give more and deeper infos for the config and using the trade tracker (!only AFTER PAY!)

If you mine, the non public parameter settings give the warranty for different user settings and this is good for the small limit entrys&stops... please say it clearly and give a ~ count of OFA users with the same settings.
Yes, you can track this and i hope you do this without using this for your own trading with very small stop/targets (1..3ticks on "your own" significant volume price markers).
The bad word for this is "frontrunning"... i hope and think you not do this and/or you have only small size users without a significant volume.


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  #119 (permalink)
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Look - I really do get it.

The Trade Tracker was the only part of OFA I didn't like. You have a suite of very good products that give you the ability to enter a discretionary trade.

Then you have what is effectively a black box to exit your trade. That's something I'd hate to have.

I understand how a trade can go your way and get you out -1.

Here's the thing.

1 - A trade on which you make money - that's a winner.
2 - A trade on which you get out at your entry price - well, that's a scratch trade, a break-even. It's a semantical argument whether you call that a loss or a break-even. I prefer to keep it in it's own class. The reasons are many and I wont could the discussion with that.
3 - A trade where you get out at a worse price than your entry - that's a loss.

Now - ES is a 1 tick spread. I do of course understand that a trade might go +4 ticks and then your tracker software may clip you out at -1.

Still - to keep your average at -1, then even if they go +ve right away, it still effectively means you don't have trades that immediately go against you.

Every decision you make in trading is based on who has shown there hand thus far. What you can never account for is the big whale that puts in an opposing trade right after your entry OR the annoying politician commenting on the Greek bailout that throws you offside straight away.

These events will throw you off 3-4 ticks before you even know what has happened. It's inevitable. I just find it very hard to believe that anyone has an AVERAGE loss = the spread on the ES.

Fact is - trades will go against you right from the off on all instruments & it really doesn't matter what the technique you use for entry is. This will prevent any ES trader from averaging a 1 tick stop.

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 futuretrader 
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DionysusToast View Post
Look - I really do get it.

The Trade Tracker was the only part of OFA I didn't like. You have a suite of very good products that give you the ability to enter a discretionary trade.

Then you have what is effectively a black box to exit your trade. That's something I'd hate to have.

Is it the automation that bothers you, or the fact that you don't know the algorithm? I.e., would it bother you if it were your own algo?

I don't think I'd ever use someone else's black box, but I've used my own (on equities) and been very happy. I'm beginning to think it might be interesting to start playing around with timmyb's Prometheus.

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  #121 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
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paganini View Post

I actually get that trade report (this is why i know the numbers) to get it retuned for a new tracker setting in early January - the new tracker setting with the same set of trades yielded:

49% winning trades, 41% losing, 10% break even, average win 7 ticks, average loss -2 ticks (yep, it's more but bigger gains), largest win is 17 ticks (versus 9), largest loss -4 ticks. Largest drawdown is -5 ticks, average drawdown -2 ticks. Gains went from 28 to 94 ticks with the new setting. I haven't tested it much since the market has just been a big churn.

Just to be clear, these statistics are based on re-processing a set of historical trades with the settings which were tuned on that sample?

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futuretrader View Post
Is it the automation that bothers you, or the fact that you don't know the algorithm? I.e., would it bother you if it were your own algo?

I don't think I'd ever use someone else's black box, but I've used my own (on equities) and been very happy. I'm beginning to think it might be interesting to start playing around with timmyb's Prometheus.

Personally, I think I have developed a good feel for when a trade isn't going my way.

As such, I don't think even an algo developed by myself would do a better job.

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futuretrader View Post
Just to be clear, these statistics are based on re-processing a set of historical trades with the settings which were tuned on that sample?

Aaaah - I thought we were talking actual results...

Makes sense now.

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  #124 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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futuretrader View Post
Just to be clear, these statistics are based on re-processing a set of historical trades with the settings which were tuned on that sample?


The 0.30 drawdown is real trades - the new tracker setting (for bigger targets) are using that set of trades.

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  #125 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't accuse someone of making up results when you haven't even used the product.

The tracker doesn't care about price - it cares about volume and market depth. When we trade, we trade into area of potential market depth. Hence, using the conditional order, market depth alert, etc. most of the trades don't even downtick. In fact, if it downticks 1-2 ticks, i'd be concerned. Generally speaking, after the area of market depth, there exist a vaccum (i.e. where there is no market depth and prices go against you very quickly).

The tracker doesn't know what price you entered, it doesn't care. It only monitors volume and takes you out when it goes against you based on settings. And the tracker is ADPATIVE, meaning, the same settings would work in slightly different volume conditions, it doesn't have to be exact.

And no, the results I posted are real trades. And it actually matches the optimization/settings during the previous submission. The new tracker settings i haven't been using, yet (kind of hard to trade orderflow in the ES when the ES just sits there and churns all day long).

It's not to say tracker doesn't have weaknesses - it certainly can't handle churn (i.e. just sitting there with volume shifting on both sides). And, the tighter the setting, the more likely you'll be taken out before the trade actually moves anywhere.

Again, it depends on what your objective is - the more tolerance you have toward drawdowns, the bigger the performance it will deliver (i.e. if you can tolerate say 4-6 ticks average drawdowns, the target is higher. The new tracker settings that was tuned yieled on the same trades, a slightly worse result (-2 ticks average and -2 tick average drawdown versus -0.30 tick average loss and the same for average dradown) but a better result in the profitable trades.

Put it this way - if your trades requires a 7-8 tick working range/stop for it to work, then your entries suck (i.e. your entry price is not precise). Precision is key when you're going for scalps. Otherwise, if you require a 7-8 tick stop in order for the trade to have room to grow, you'll invariably be losing in the long term if you're going for a quick 4-6 tick scalp.

This is why trade entries are critical - there are lots of places where market depth exists, I don't trade all of them, I only trade certain set ups. You'll note in the example of the trade I took last Friday, there was just ONE downtick (actually, i am not quite sure if it even downticked, since it was executed with a conditional order, but the entry price is one tick above the low).

Again, don't knock something you don't undersatnd. I can tell by the way you're trying to explain things, you still don't get the tracker. The tracker is one of the best part of OFA, actually. And, while I agree with that it's good to look at big boys and institutional volume, but when you get say, 5000 1 lot traders going against you, versus 2 2500 lot traders, the net result in volume and price action will be very similar. The tracker is designed, when set up properly, to prevent the trade from running over.

Put it this way - if i were to take a trade at the edge of a range and I expect market depth for a various reasons - how far down am I going to tolerate? Think about where the typical stops are, 1-3 ticks below the range, right? So if I expect it to hold say 1-2 tick out of the range or 1-2 ticks inside the range, i am certainly NOT going to hold the trade past that, because you'll just hit a big stop run that will end up in a vaccum where your stop loss, let's say you set it 3 ticks beyond the range, will most likely get executed 6 ticks out due to lack of any depth. The tracker will take you out of the trade when it sees volume goes against you, so a -1 tick is hell lot better than -6.






DionysusToast View Post
Look - I really do get it.

The Trade Tracker was the only part of OFA I didn't like. You have a suite of very good products that give you the ability to enter a discretionary trade.

Then you have what is effectively a black box to exit your trade. That's something I'd hate to have.

I understand how a trade can go your way and get you out -1.

Here's the thing.

1 - A trade on which you make money - that's a winner.
2 - A trade on which you get out at your entry price - well, that's a scratch trade, a break-even. It's a semantical argument whether you call that a loss or a break-even. I prefer to keep it in it's own class. The reasons are many and I wont could the discussion with that.
3 - A trade where you get out at a worse price than your entry - that's a loss.

Now - ES is a 1 tick spread. I do of course understand that a trade might go +4 ticks and then your tracker software may clip you out at -1.

Still - to keep your average at -1, then even if they go +ve right away, it still effectively means you don't have trades that immediately go against you.

Every decision you make in trading is based on who has shown there hand thus far. What you can never account for is the big whale that puts in an opposing trade right after your entry OR the annoying politician commenting on the Greek bailout that throws you offside straight away.

These events will throw you off 3-4 ticks before you even know what has happened. It's inevitable. I just find it very hard to believe that anyone has an AVERAGE loss = the spread on the ES.

Fact is - trades will go against you right from the off on all instruments & it really doesn't matter what the technique you use for entry is. This will prevent any ES trader from averaging a 1 tick stop.


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  #126 (permalink)
 paganini 
Austin, Texas
 
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DionysusToast View Post
Aaaah - I thought we were talking actual results...

Makes sense now.

This is why it's POINTLESS to talk about this on this forum because you're assuming stuff that you don't know anything about.

Assumptions = making an ass out of u and mption.

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  #127 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
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Hi. I bought OFA Pro about 5 months ago - which is the complete software offered now except it does not include the Trade Tracker and Conditional Orders (you can add these features from OFA if you like). For various reasons, I am no longer using the software. If you are interested in the OFA Pro software, please PM me privately. Thanks.

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  #128 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
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Hi. I transferred the software to someone else today. Thanks for the inquires.

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  #129 (permalink)
 forgiven 
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eminitrader View Post
The website is OrderFlowAnalytics.com I seen a little webinar for them selling there system. It seems pretty cool, they say volume leads price. They have this certain volume indicator that they made. I was wondering if there was anyone here who actual has experience with their product, or knows of an indicator here that is like it.

Can't really put up pictures, cuz they don't have any I can put on here.

i have the software and have used it over a year. it is the only trading software i have bought that is worth a damn.it is not cheep and it does take months to learn how to use it but it will get the job done. #1 if your are going to trade on a high level order flow,market and volume profile is what will get you there. do you think pro traders are looking at laging indicators. you can use investor rt not market delta you do not need footprint charts you have ofa. that is 2000.00 yearly you can place a conditional order to ninga trader .it will only entry you into the trade on a volume reversal at the top or bottom of the ration you are expecting. no reversal no entry. that makes your entry a higher % entry you have a better chance of get a few tick away from entry so you can lay of some risk .it can do much more than that.it put value zone and 13 volume zones,daily range projections.that cost 100.00 monthly from most vendors. good training and support. you will use the software as long as you are trading.order flow, market and volume profiling is the top of the hill. it is not easy few traders will make that far.

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 gonzofist 
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Chart of the Week – Auction Market Theory Order Flow | The MarketDelta Blog

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 gonzofist 
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I no longer use my OFA license, base charting software license only. Please send me a PM if interested.

Thank you.

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 DAYTRADERPROFESIONAL 
Catalunya Spain
 
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Hi,

I have ofa pro connect, the package software complete. If someone are interested in change licenses with mtpredictor profesional pm. Only for a period of time.

Thanks

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 gonzofist 
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I no longer have license.

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  #134 (permalink)
 Dendroud 
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Hi

Does anyone have any more precise description of the bars used in the OFA?

Thanks

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 YuvalW 
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Dendroud View Post
Hi

Does anyone have any more precise description of the bars used in the OFA?

Thanks

Scroll back in this thread and look for my post explaining it.

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  #136 (permalink)
 Dendroud 
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YuvalW View Post
Scroll back in this thread and look for my post explaining it.

Thank you!!!
Now they use 7/5 and 13/5 Reversal bars.

Maybe you know how they calculating stop-run levels, or how they define the type of bar: neutral auction, responsive sell/buy, buyer/seller initiating?

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 YuvalW 
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@Dendroud

Don't know what is stop run (probably in newer version, I stopped following it a year ago).
The responsive/initiating activity is based on the location of the maximum volume level in the bar.

In general it is something like that:
On an UP BAR:
When the maximum ASK volume is at the top four prices, and then it rotates down, this is responsive action.
When the maximum ASK volume is NOT it the four upper prices (i.e priced pushed away at least 4-5 ticks from the maximum ASK volume price) - it is initiative action.

Hope it helps.

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 olevkat 
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Is there a GOM NT version of this?

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  #139 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Tip


On Tuesday, February 26th @ 12:00 PM ET we'll hold a casual meeting with D.B. Vaello and Order Flow Analytics. The purpose of this meeting is to answer any questions from members.

Attend the event:
https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/362893990

This is part of our Ask Me Anything (AMA) sessions, the thread is here:


AMA live Q&A sessions have no prepared presentation and are not to be considered a full webinar. They are just quick and casual meetings to answer questions from members.




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 dandxg 
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I looked at OFA, a couple of times, a few years back. DB is an arrogant jerk, their software has a huge upfront fee 3-5k if I recall, and George? couldn't even make money with the demo LOL. It was just bad all around.

I don't see how anyone would still buy their product. If there product was so good, then why do they ask you for all the money upfront. EOT is not perfect, but their model should be the standard judge of trading vendors. Earn my business every month, that's the way it should be.

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 BeachTrader 
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dandxg View Post
I looked at OFA, a couple of times, a few years back. DB is an arrogant jerk, their software has a huge upfront fee 3-5k if I recall, and George? couldn't even make money with the demo LOL. It was just bad all around.

Now dandxg, don't be so shy. Tell us how you really feel!

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  #142 (permalink)
 dandxg 
Denver, Colorado
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Now dandxg, don't be so shy. Tell us how you really feel!

Too funny, I was just thinking that was out of character for me, normally even vendors I don't like I do not lash that hard, but DB is a real jerk off, he is the most obnoxious person I have ever listened to in a trading room. If he was a jerk with a great product I would say much, but this is a trifecta of disappointment.

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  #143 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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I have been called much worse, usually by people whom I have banned for rude behavior on the site. Then they run to other forums and feign innocence, making up stuff neglecting to mention they were banned for their behavior here.

The point is: you can't please everyone. In my case when it comes to banning people, I know the whole truth as does the banned person. Everyone else is making assumptions. In the case of a software vendor with an upset customer, again it's just two real people that know the whole story. And in the end, that story could simply be they didn't like each other very much

DB mentioned the OFA license is transferable so I'm guessing you could contact them to arrange a transfer to another party once you line one up, and that way you can pursue other things.

Mike

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  #144 (permalink)
 tecnitek 
spain + spain
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2012

Hi,

I totaly agree with you, dandxg. I don't know wich really intentions have DB for become here, but i know that he thinks that the programmers that helps here a lot of people, they are "HACKERS". Is what he writes in a e-mail, textually words. A person that i know and who receives these e-mail, he boughts the software and pay for it 5000$ and DB cut her license. He likes to play with the money's people. Be carefull, if you buy this software and you do somenthing that DB don't like, you will lose your license. The reason for do this, was that person now is teaching orderflow. He is not using ofa platform or any material from ofa company, but he says that this is not posible. Is not posible to teach orderflow? When this person say me that, i can not believed but it's a real story.

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  #145 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
Trading: ES, 6E, 6B
 
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Hi,

I totaly agree with you, dandxg. I don't know wich really intentions have DB for become here, but i know that he thinks that the programmers that helps here a lot of people, they are "HACKERS". Is what he writes in a e-mail, textually words. A person that i know and who receives these e-mail, he boughts the software and pay for it 5000$ and DB cut her license. He likes to play with the money's people. Be carefull, if you buy this software and you do somenthing that DB don't like, you will lose your license. The reason for do this, was that person now is teaching orderflow. He is not using ofa platform or any material from ofa company, but he says that this is not posible. Is not posible to teach orderflow? When this person say me that, i can not believed but it's a real story.

The license in question was terminated because the user placed our trademarked logo on their website in order to make people think they were a Spanish partner of OFA - so trying to gain legitimacy by acting like you are partnering with me - a "jerk off". So sad... I have only terminated 1 license in 5 years. So I know exactly who this is. No other user has ever had a license terminated to my knowledge - but then again nobody else was ever quite so stupid. We tried to discuss it with him before terminating the license but all we received were threats of lawsuits so we stopped talking and moved on. You can see in the previous posts here that DayTraderProfessional tried to sell or exchange his license a long time ago... If it was so bad (and I was such a jerk) why did he put our logo on his website and act like we were partners? Hmmm...

DB

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  #146 (permalink)
 tecnitek 
spain + spain
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2012

Hi,

Don't confuse the people. For me this is and action that i can not understand. You are not honest. I know this guy and you cut his license because you want. He let me put here what was your first e-mail to him:

texto nombre: DB Vaello
texto mail: questions@orderflowanalytics.com
texto observaciones: Remove the OFA logo from your website immediately Joshua. You are not a licensed partner of OFA and we will initiate a lawsuit if it is not off your website by tomorrow.

DB


[In the same day, he sendi you he send you this e-mail:

Hi, DB Vaello



I'm Joshua. Your logo is removed from my web page. I'm sorry if i made somenthing wrong. It was not intentionally. The reason for put your logo is to help others to find you and your company. Your logo was a link that goes to your web page. But again, i'm sorry. I have been using your software for many years now and i know is a good tool for someone who wants to use the orderflow tecnique in her trading. I don't want to cause you any inconvenience or handicap to your work and to your company. If you think that i can do somenthing more, tell me.


Thank's

Don't try to confuse people here. If i put here this information is because the people need to know what is buying and from who.

Thank's

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  #147 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
Trading: ES, 6E, 6B
 
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You have part of the story but not all...

The logo was not removed when he said it was and we temporarily did terminate the license. This would have ended with him getting the license back once it was removed except that he sent an email telling me that he was going to sue me! Actually that he was going to sue me "tomorrow". Trademark infringement, clear misrepresentation of a partnership for financial gain and threats of frivolous lawsuits. No need to reply further. In fact all you vendor-haters should be proud that this guy was punished for trying to lure customers through a total bait-and-switch.

Again, no other license has ever been terminated. Any legitimate business has a standard boilerplate legal terms and conditions agreement. No one ever wants to be in a situation where they have to enforce it. Your friend should have more sense than to use logos without asking for approval and to consider his misstep before threatening a lawsuit.

Tell you what... If Mike will approve to let this happen here or in another thread... To make up for the evil empire's wrong doing - If anyone here is in agreement with my decision to terminate the license in question based on the blatant misrepresentation of claiming to be the Spanish "partner" of a US company... to the extent that he would take a trademarked logo from a copyright protected website... Present it as providing his TRADING VENDOR sham company with legitimacy in an effort to make money off unsuspecting traders... If you actually agree that I did the right thing then post here. If you think I'm totaly wrong, post here. I'll give away a license for $1 to the best post and let Big Mike be the judge as to who gets it - regardless if you are for or against my action. Best post by April 1 gets our new unreleased OFA version for $1.

Rules:
1. Keep it general. Company X and Customer Y (or in this case company Y). This should not be marketing for or a slam against the parties involved.
2. No personal email cut and paste (that obviously have the capacity to be doctored for you position)
3. You have to be an Elite member here - no hiding under your mom's skirt with 50 free accounts
4. Big Mike has full discretion to choose the winner. I'll stay out of it.
5. Stick to the point. Right or wrong. Should a company have the right to enforce an agreement. Should a customer have the right to disregard an agreement for his own personal gain? Which is worse?
6. To claim the $1 version you'll have to agree to the same terms and conditions as the guy whining (hahahahaha).
7. Title your reply "Dirty Rotten Contract Law"

Probably should have checked with Mike first but hopefully this is an acceptable post.

DB

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  #148 (permalink)
 BecomingaTrader 
Champaign, Champaign County
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Trading: Futures
 
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You can paint a replica of Starry Night. You can't sign it as Vincent Van Gogh and sell it as the original.

You can build a car that mimics the SL Roadster. You can't place a Mercedes hood ornament on it and sell it as a Mercedes.

You can build a website that functions like futures.io (formerly BMT). You can't call it Big Mike's Trading Forum.

If as represented, I think you're entirely in the right to cancel the license.

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  #149 (permalink)
 tecnitek 
spain + spain
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jun 2012

Hi DB,

I think this is a serious matter and not for playing with that. The license you cut cost 5000 dollars. I think that you need to be more serious with that. If someone need to do some judgement it's necessary to have all the information.

The web page where your logo was is this one:

DayTraderProfesional

Is true that he has your logo in the web. But not was the only. He has the logo from DTN iqfeed, ninjatrader, amp futures, zen fire. He say me that he puts all the tools that he is using for trading and was a direct link to your web page and the others. It's possible that he makes a mistake but it not was intentionally for hurt someone or take profit. The most important part is that he was not selling nothing in this site. You cut his license because you want maybe because you think he was a competitor. Is what i think. He doesn't want to play at this game and he is walking for another way to resolve this, but he say that you never call to him or George for speak nothing about that. The only conversation way, if it's possible to call it a conversation was via e-mail. He let me to put all the messages that he send to you and now the people can do his right judgement and play at your game. He can send me the messages that you send to him. if the people need to make any assumptions i think that need to have all the information. If you give your permision i can put here the messages. If the people believes that your action was desmesured and wrong, do you will return back the license to my friend?











Thank's

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  #150 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
Trading: ES, 6E, 6B
 
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Yes, let's get the full story...

Note the date and recipient of the email I'm posting. I thought you were a "friend" of the guy that had the software. Oh wait, it's you! Silly me for thinking you were a concerned friend.

For those of you paying attention this email is to "TECNITEK" on 11/08/2010 when I was assisting him with the configuration of his software through remote access. Re: Joshua - aka DayTraderProfessional also known as our concerned friend Tecnitek who has been trying to convince you that if you buy OFA it will be taken away from you at my whim - because that is really good business practice. Geez.

Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:57:23 -0600
From: "D.B. Vaello"
Organization: OrderFlowAnalytics.com
To: TECNITEK <tecnitek04@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Joshua

https://www.fastsupport.com/790582997

Please have OFA up and visible
Follow the instructions to allow me to join

DB

So....

Sorry to have wasted the time of the forum participants with this. Just so you know there are several educators that use OFA and we've never taken anything away from them... Some are partners and affiliates, and some have nothing to do with us at all. They each took the time to discuss the situation with us first and of course they did not violate trademark and copyright and contract laws to try to misrepresent themselves for personal gain. Had he just complied and taken down the link/logo there never would have been a problem. We'd have resolved it the right way... Instead he kept the page up and acted like an innocent victim of circumstances and now presents himself as a concerned friend. The funny thing is that one of his students was the whistleblower. We were told by someone that paid him for education what he was doing and how he was representing himself. Hahahaha. What a joke.

Joshua/Josue/DayTraderProfessional/Tecnitek or whatever you call yourself these days - this will be my last post on the matter. Originally I thought you understood the depth of liability you are facing... I can see that you have no idea how bad this is for you - and you are only exasperating the situation by continuing to make victim-like claims under an alias. If you like, I'll send you a final email describing the potential consequences of your trademark and copyright infringement actions - as this is the ONLY reason your license was terminated. I completely despise lawyers and think this is a ridiculous situation for you, but I'd suggest you consult with one before you post here again. We have legitimate licensed partners in Spain who don't think you're too funny.

I know you're young and think you're bulletproof. We all were once. So before you reply with more of the same, take some time to think about what you did and try to make it right instead of worse. If you apologize in your next post and admit that you screwed up - I'll give you your license back. If you go down the other road I'll send the email mentioned above and you can deal with the consequences.

It's your choice. Act like a man with honor or act like an idiot. You can have your license back tonight.

DB

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  #151 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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  #152 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
San Diego
 
Experience: Beginner
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Thanks Mike. That sniping back and forth made all parties looks bad IMO.

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  #153 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
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BeachTrader View Post
Thanks Mike. That sniping back and forth made all parties looks bad IMO.

Agree. Let's hope future AMA participants don't use this great forum for dispute resolution. Not that it matters at all, but I was pretty much on DB's side until his last sentence: offering to give back the license if the banned guy came here to apologize or admit wrong-doing, or whatever. If he bought the license, and apparently he did, then activate it. If he is violating copyright law and refuses to comply with your request to remove a logo, let your lawyers get it handled. I didn't see your logo on the site that was posted in this thread.

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  #154 (permalink)
 jet9jockey 
Grand Forks ND
 
Experience: Beginner
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It all boils down to ethics and morals. Being that these values have taken a back seat to the "ME ME ME" value it is no wounder that this type of behavior is taking place. Just look at our political system, enough said there. An agreement that is entered by two ethical and moral individuals will stand and be lived up to, but if one of those individuals lack those values they will do what ever they want, and thus the reason for laws, to protect the moral and ethical person from being screwed by scum bags.

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  #155 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
Trading: ES, 6E, 6B
 
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Sorry to all. You are right. That should not have happened here. It was unprofessional and there is no excuse.

DB

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  #156 (permalink)
 euroventure 
LONDON UNITED KINGDOM
 
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in my opinion based upon my experience, all net bid or ask volume indicators do not have any predictive value, I learned this lesson trying to trade with the GOM volume ladder and then later the commercial market delta, all numbers are after the fact, in daytrading one requires a edge and delta is certainly not the edge, if one position trades over a few days all one needs is a price chart, MA, MACD and support and

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  #157 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
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euroventure View Post
in my opinion based upon my experience, all net bid or ask volume indicators do not have any predictive value, I learned this lesson trying to trade with the GOM volume ladder and then later the commercial market delta, all numbers are after the fact, in daytrading one requires a edge and delta is certainly not the edge, if one position trades over a few days all one needs is a price chart, MA, MACD and support and

Exactly.

DB

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  #158 (permalink)
 Trafford 
London, England
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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euroventure you make a good point but in your point also state the obvious. I think what DB has to teach is worth more than the software he sells( or Georege does ). The knowledge is the key then what you us to read the market is just what takes your fancy if you get my drift. What DB has to offer in my humble opion is in his teaching. If you focus on the software then I am afraid the expectation will be too great for you to see the jewels in the crown.

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  #159 (permalink)
 CFuture 
cologne, europe
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, t4-trader
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Schooling beginning traders is a legitimate and serious business. The complexity of the day to day work, to be profitable, is far higher than the expectations of all newcomers are. Just buy/sell without any more expertise than a computerized tool is not sufficient, even for pro quant traders.

I understand, that OFA can not let others do schooling with their tools without knowing what is being delivered. So there should have been some contact prior to offering education in another native language and using the logo.

On the other hand, contract law and the very widespread business practice to react quickly within the contract, in this case disenabling the license, could be felt shurely very negative as it was paid for (but not in the way offering education on it without asking).

As i feel the issue is resolved anyways, there could be one idealistic lesson (although i know in most businesses there is simply no time for it). Ask if you want to use a trademark for your business (even though maybe doing advertising) and for the other part maybe negotiate a separate deal after asking about the kind of education offered from someone working with it.

I think there is value in that kind of orderflow analysis.

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  #160 (permalink)
 dom64 
London, UK
 
Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Trading: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012

I just wanted to take the time to give a little review as I have been using OFA for one month and a few days.

To give a complete picture, I need to explain that I have spent quite some time understanding order flow concepts before buying the software, and I have been using other tools to help me see the order flow so I am not new to it, and I have been trading for a couple of years, and I was not doing badly, in the sense that I managed to have good and bad days, and break even or positive overall. Close but no cigar in short.

Since I have used OFA, and again I need to add that I have the whole package so I don't know how well I would be doing with just parts of it, I have had a single losing days. Period. As it stands, I wouldn't do without it. It only has been one month, and admiteldy it woud be interesting to see how things evolve with time, but so far, if anything, it has given me a real sense of clarity, understanding, and very importantly confidence when I trade, with zero stress.

I obviously still get loosing trades as I otherwise wouldn't be here disserting on the subject, but every day has been a clear gain.

I have no link whatsoever with OFA, and I like to do things on my own and understand how it works, so not part of any forum, room or whatever OFA might offer. I just wanted to share my thoughts, as I have tried, a lot of tools, read a lot of books, watched many videos, training courses, and this is the 1st time something really does what is written on the box (Jigsaw aside, which I also use every day and couldn't trade without either, altough different).

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  #161 (permalink)
 jet9jockey 
Grand Forks ND
 
Experience: Beginner
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Has a winner been selected?

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  #162 (permalink)
 O66NL 
Netherlands
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: MC+ ninja+ irt
 
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Hi, if someone is interested in a license of OFA please send an e-mail to vanessapral@gmail.com
The license is for the full package.

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  #163 (permalink)
 daytrading2win 
Madrid
 
Experience: Master
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Hi, Im spanish , if someone is interested in my license of OFA CORE please send an e-mail to daytrading2win@gmail.com

Very cheap.


Thanks

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  #164 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
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A quick note:

DB Vaello from OrderFlowAnalytics will be here Monday June 3rd to demo his software, as part of our special futures.io (formerly BMT) 4-year anniversary. During June we have 16 very special speakers and events planned where we will be giving away around $20,000 worth of prizes.

More info:


Mike

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  #165 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
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why so many sell back their license?

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  #166 (permalink)
bisecom
Zaporozhye
 
 
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why so many sell back their license?

yes, its interesting question...

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  #167 (permalink)
 Saroj 
Arcata, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I have been called much worse, usually by people whom I have banned for rude behavior on the site. Then they run to other forums and feign innocence, making up stuff neglecting to mention they were banned for their behavior here.

The point is: you can't please everyone. In my case when it comes to banning people, I know the whole truth as does the banned person. Everyone else is making assumptions. In the case of a software vendor with an upset customer, again it's just two real people that know the whole story. And in the end, that story could simply be they didn't like each other very much

DB mentioned the OFA license is transferable so I'm guessing you could contact them to arrange a transfer to another party once you line one up, and that way you can pursue other things.

Mike

Maybe no longer... quoting from their license agreement:

"3.1 Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, OFA hereby grants you a limited, non-exclusive, non-assignable, non-transferable license during the term of your Services (“License”) to (i) access, perform, and use the Software, as well as any maintenance releases, enhancements, new versions, modifications, bug fixes, updates and upgrades provided to you by OFA.

3.2 The Software may be used by you only. The Software may not be used for the benefit of any third parties not authorized herein. You are fully and finally responsible for any breach of this Agreement and for the payment of any additional License fees incurred by use of the Software by any authorized users.

3.3 You shall not sell, rent, lease, lend, sublicense, distribute, or otherwise transfer or provide access to the Software (or any part thereof) to any person, firm, or entity. You shall not publish the results of your use of the Software to any third party without OFA’s prior written consent."

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  #168 (permalink)
 dom64 
London, UK
 
Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Trading: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012


cory View Post
why so many sell back their license?

Best would be to ask them..? It is a great tool but still requires to understand order flow, what makes the market tick, why, have a account decent enough to trade more than 1 contract etc ..

In short, there is no magic, requires understanding, hard work and the right conditions to trade properly.

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  #169 (permalink)
 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Saroj View Post
You shall not publish the results of your use of the Software to any third party without OFA’s prior written consent."



I can understand not allowing people to resell their licences, though it's a bit tough when the software is so expensive and there's no trial.

But not allowing customers to talk about whether they find it useful or not seems excessive, if not paranoid. We're not dealing with state security here.....

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  #170 (permalink)
 Koepisch 
@ Germany
 
Experience: Beginner
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Broker: Mirus Futures/Zen-Fire
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@OrderFlowAnalytics
I've seen a screenshot of the "Order Flow Trade Manager" which acts as a helper to exit trades. It catches my attention, because i think order flow analysis can move the trailing stops more precise. Because i don't want add another chart to doing that manually, the described tool matches my needs. Where i can find more information about it?

Koepisch

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  #171 (permalink)
 WolfieWolf 
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja
Broker: Optimus - Rithmic
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I did the full OFA course / software a couple of years ago. DB is a great guy an amazing teacher and probably a good trader. My personal experience is this. DB teaches a lot more than just OFA including correct risk management, position sizing and some very cool range projection methodology that has become core to my trading strategy. The range projection stuff alone was worth the price of the course, so I'm a satisfied customer. The OFA element, in isolation, IMO is no better or worse than any other method that gives you some kind of an edge. In my experience I derived significant value from DB's personal and professional mentorship but I don't use OFA in my trading, in fact I never executed live with it. He teaches Market Auction theory... you could read Dalton and Stedlemeyer too. I hope I was allowed to say all that Mike, it is my personal experience. I hope you were okwith that too DB as I have lot of respect for you.

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  #172 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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WolfieWolf View Post
I hope I was allowed to say all that Mike

Anyone is allowed to say anything, so long as they are speaking from experience. Good or bad.

Mike

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  #173 (permalink)
 italianfx 
Naples Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
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Hello everyone

I'm not trading anymore ....is anyone interested in the OFA core Licence?
The software is very good and support too!

Please contact me if interested!!!!

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  #174 (permalink)
 maxreturn 
Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States
 
Experience: Intermediate
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...to me that if this software is so good, why does it seem so many are selling it?

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  #175 (permalink)
 italianfx 
Naples Italy
 
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maxreturn View Post
...to me that if this software is so good, why does it seem so many are selling it?

because a software is just a software and the education coming with the software is just that....education!
I take full responsability for blowing out my account, the responsability is in me because I was not disciplined enough to follow rules and was too emotional in trading.

second...because OFA is the only company allowing to pass the live licence to someone else. other company take your money and say goodbye.

I decided to give away my licence because I don't want to trade anymore and not because the software is not good. Actually it's very good and the support and education is very good too, but the problem is in me, so...... ;-)

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  #176 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
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futuretrader View Post
I can understand not allowing people to resell their licences, though it's a bit tough when the software is so expensive and there's no trial.

But not allowing customers to talk about whether they find it useful or not seems excessive, if not paranoid. We're not dealing with state security here.....

Have any of you ever dealt with attorneys? It is their job to come up with stuff like this. As previously mentioned over and over in here - OFA is more than happy to transfer a license as long as it is done through us. I'm not aware of any other company that has this flexibility. Let's face it - there are a lot of people that just flat out are never going to be traders - regardless of education, software or the insane dreams they have in their heads.

Regardless of the legal jargon in the agreement, I dont care what you say about OFA and your results. I will have the agreement amended to exclude the nonsense about publishing results.

As for license transfers, wouldn't you like to have the option to sell even half of the stuff you've bought over the years? Most people do this anyway under the table and the buyer is stuck with a dependency on the seller actually notifying them of upgrades, support issues, etc. Good luck with that. Transfer a license through us and you are actually part of the support community. Buy it unregistered and you are on your own.

Good Trading to All,

DB

It now reads: 3.3 You shall not sell, rent, lease, lend, sublicense, distribute, or otherwise transfer or provide access to the Software (or any part thereof) to any person, firm, entity, or any third party without OFA’s prior written consent.

If you have any questions about the products or services provided by Order Flow Analytics, please send me a Private Message or use the BMT "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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  #177 (permalink)
 OpalDragon 
Des Moines, Iowa
 
Experience: Advanced
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Hello Guys...

I tried OFA and it is not for me... I am more of a visual guy not a Footprint guy and so OFA is not for me that much.

I do a lot better with charts and such

So I am willing to sell my licence forward if any of you guys want it. Just PM me if you want the details on that.

It is very robustly built - It never crashed on me or anything and I was using it on ES, 6E and CL...

But I like trading from charts - better than footprint.

If you like footprint reading and you want this one just let me know. Send me a PM. I don't use it - it is just sitting there so we can negotiate a good price.

Cya...

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  #178 (permalink)
 resist 
Berlin Germany /Alicante Spain
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: DDT/Rithmic, Global/CQG, IB, Mirus(Ninja)/MarketDelta
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Dear members,
I am looking for an OFA license so if anyone wants to sell his OrderFlowAnalytics License please send me a PM.
Thank you. Kind regards.
resist

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  #179 (permalink)
 Raj1 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja Trader
Broker: AMP FUTURES/ZENFIRE
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paganini View Post
Most of what OFA has is not proprietary nor black box. Once you go through the training you'll know.

The tracker is proprietary - i have a 11 years working experience as a software engineer so i knew exactly which part of his software is proprietary which isn't.

OFA's plot of the volume chart is unique (and no software does this, but the logic is CLEARLY explained in the training).

Not quite sure what the legal status of rebroadcasting/posting images from the chart is, so I won't post the images. However, one of the trades i took was at 8:40 pm tonight. It was simply a COT change (it shows -300 contracts and changing to +400 which is A LOT in overnight trading). I was originally short at 1303.25 and saw it move against me. Took a small loss at -2 ticks.

Now, the high of the day was 1304.25. And the ES closed near the high. The expectation from everyoe is that it wll drop over night. It should after an extended rise and practically the entire day was a strong move up. I went in on a responsive selling peeriod and saw the COT turning. Naturally i knew that i was wrong and took a quick -2 tick loss.

However, since we're at the day high (loss was 1303.75, high was 1304.25, 2 ticks away) Chances are really good that it will attempt break out.

Why? Not because it will break - it's beceause institutional investors want to get filled with retailer's stops. The chart shows about 500-600 contracts at teh bid/ask between 1303.50 and 1304.25. When the market finally broke the high, it shot up because there is no market depth overnight other than the limit sellers who are eager to short against those stops outs. The prices tick to 1307.50. My original target was 4 ticks but my ATM strategy has a 3 point target (i always manage it myself). Well, it hits it in 3 seconds after the break out. It was literally stops after stops.

Those 500-600 contracts at the bid at 1303.75-1304.25 ends up at 1305.50 and 1305.75 at the ask with ZERO trade at the bid (after hours). The data shows 8:46:14 to 8:46:16 as the trade period for that rotation yep, 3 seconds of stop out and shot up 3 points.


Everyone of those shorts as well as the market stop buy orders got stopped out because the market shoots up 3 points and falls back down through the range and now is below the day's high.

Total gain in 5 minutes: 2.50 points. Check out the spike on your chart at around 8:46 pm central time (big spike up, eh? Yup, institutional investors causing retailers to stop out to take their contracts and sell to their buy out orders). Much harder to do during day time but easily manipulated after hours at night.

Those stop outs? the cluster shows 1.75 ticks (or close to 2 points). Amazing, isn't it? I wonder how many ES traders uses 2 point stops... look around at the systems out there, most are using 2 points as a stop. And everyone who shorted (and remember, I DID SHORT but OFA tells me that i'm about to get nailed, so i took the small 2 tick loss and changed my position). Also, my tracker which was showing a positive 200 contracts for me was showing -140 when i exited. 340 contracts shifted after i entered the market in overnight is a lot of volume.

COT, etc. are not proprietary, it's just a measure of the number of traders in the rotation process. Again, all covered in the training.

The stuff that is proprietary are the tracker software (not the contract counting but the automation stop out and target out levels), the gold market depth alert signals, the volume pivots (algorithmic pivots) genreated by their server which is used as a potential targets area, are proprietary. The rest isn't. However, the way the volume charts are printed is unique - there is no fixed length of volume length (unlike Gomi or Market delta or time based or range bars, it's none of the above). The logic though is clearly explained in the training.

Maybe Big Mike can ask OFA to do a presentation - i know OFA has done several for Mirus and you can see it on their youtube.com channel:

OrderFlowAnalytics's Channel - YouTube

Their stop run one is particularly interesting. We see it all day long on those volume levels and stop out levels.

Hi

How do you make use of Cumulative delta and delta values printed on each order flow bar's top / bottom based on up bar / down bar for your entries?

A theoretical explanation may help

Thanks

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  #180 (permalink)
 asiaexpat 
Chiang Mai Thailand
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: IB/IB, AMP/CQG
Trading: ES
 
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Anyone know if Bloodhound has access to OFA data?

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  #181 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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asiaexpat View Post
Anyone know if Bloodhound has access to OFA data?

You might want to also ask in the Bloodhound review thread



Mike

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  #182 (permalink)
 Greatwest1 
Nelson, B.C. , Canada
 
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I first downloaded the free OFA version and worked with it for a month , while being a new 'room' member- I saw excellent potential. I then purchased program and the add - on modules.

The free version is great for you to get your feet wet- to test the general ideas.
you can clearly see more details and theory and practice of OFA in the free YouTube &/or BigMike videos on OFA with DB Vaello presenting. He offers no hype and 'just the facts'- seems that he's only interested in helping serious traders to improve.
*
I joined the analysis room- a good name, because it's not like Puretick.co or Trader's International
(where they pretend to call out good trades!! ).

The OFA Analysis Room, is quiet, virtually no chatter; & only the analysis of what the moderator see's
in the chart each morning. Thankfully - she and DB don't feel they have to entertain you with chatter
and trading trivia. Otherwise I would not be a member.
This room has successful and experienced, serious traders- end of story.
*
My trading has vastly improved because of:
1- OFA paid version with modules , and
2- Analysis room membership.

MY Final word: My best investment - expect to be here for a long time.

I receive nothing in return for these comments - my purpose is to inform other serious traders, that there are good products out there- but you will have to roll up your sleeves and do some work !!!

The videos put it in perspective for me. If you can, check it out for yourself: orderflowanalytics.com

Cheers and good trading to all serious traders( no matter what your experience!).
***
Greg

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  #183 (permalink)
 gregsutt 
Brisbane
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: YM
 
Posts: 2 since Aug 2011
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Quoting 
I first downloaded the free OFA version and worked with it for a month , while being a new 'room' member- I saw excellent potential. I then purchased program and the add - on modules.

The free version is great for you to get your feet wet- to test the general ideas.
you can clearly see more details and theory and practice of OFA in the free YouTube &/or BigMike videos on OFA with DB Vaello presenting. He offers no hype and 'just the facts'- seems that he's only interested in helping serious traders to improve.
*
I joined the analysis room- a good name, because it's not like Puretick.co or Trader's International
(where they pretend to call out good trades!! ).

The OFA Analysis Room, is quiet, virtually no chatter; & only the analysis of what the moderator see's
in the chart each morning. Thankfully - she and DB don't feel they have to entertain you with chatter
and trading trivia. Otherwise I would not be a member.
This room has successful and experienced, serious traders- end of story.
*
My trading has vastly improved because of:
1- OFA paid version with modules , and
2- Analysis room membership.

MY Final word: My best investment - expect to be here for a long time.

I receive nothing in return for these comments - my purpose is to inform other serious traders, that there are good products out there- but you will have to roll up your sleeves and do some work !!!

The videos put it in perspective for me. If you can, check it out for yourself: orderflowanalytics.com

Cheers and good trading to all serious traders( no matter what your experience!).
***
Greg
November 21st, 2013 12:01 AM

The post above smells like a planted "testimonial" of how the magical OFA software changed my trading life. If it's so great show us the money - like screenshots of your brokerage account. Truth is selling trading software, advice, memberships, etc is really where the big money is - not trading.

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  #184 (permalink)
 Greatwest1 
Nelson, B.C. , Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: IB.ca
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You know ''gregsutt'' - I re read my post above, and it does look planted as you suggest.
But no, sorry to disappoint.
I know where you're coming from, so I take no offense.
I've been through a number of traders' hoops in the past, and only posted this for others to possibly benefit.
*
Also, in the past I have stepped up to the plate and warned others to stay away from : PURETICK.CO -
as I was a member and paid dearly....
*
But if you have time, then why not look and see for yourself ?

If you don't have time to check- no problems with me. But ask yourself , if you are not
interested in doing research - will you or can you be successful at trading ?
*
If you have no research time: I suggest you do not check out 'gomi-indicator'' either, because he has done some amazing
coding to produce a similar program in the order flow topic.
*
What I find interesting about the order flow of data - it is THE ROOT of all information , indicators
and your signals that you trade from.

EXCEPT that - by reading the data you are one step ahead of those who are waiting for indicator(s) to form
and give you 'the signal.'
Also- by reading this orderflow data - you will know if one of your 'trusted' signals have volume behind it.
*
My previous posts have all had a sense of integrity- I believe you can see that coming through- but yes, my post above
could lead you to suspect otherwise- that's good that you posted your concern/suspicions. That helps us all- Thanks.

All the best in your pursuit of finding your 'edge'.! Does this help you in your quest ??
Cheers,
Greg K.

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  #185 (permalink)
 mr11 
New York, NY/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TS 9.1, NT7
Broker: Tradestation , Mirus/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF CL GC 6E ES FESX, NG, ZN
 
Posts: 9 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 15 given, 5 received

I enrolled as a paid customer for 60 days in a trading room called The Oil Trading Group.

They use some of the order flow analytics materials as part of their approach for trading the CL intraday.

So far it's been fine. Had decent days with CL on most of the days.

However, I don't necessarily take every suggested setup;
I utilize any of these rooms/approaches/methodologies as ways to improve/augment upon what I use already.

The person who runs the room seems to conduct himself professionally.
As long as that remains the case, and as long as his analysis/insight provides another useful piece that I can use in my overall decision making process -- then I'm good to go.

One downside is that they are not as direct in their price for the "lifetime membership" which I learned is $5K.
So I was guarded about up-sells, etc.
The 60 day membership was $599, which they indicated would be applied to the $5K were I to purchase such a membership.
That said, it may be worth it for me if the consistency I've experienced thus far perseveres.


PS - Big Mike, if I posted this note in the wrong place, my apologies in advance :-)

PPS - I'm in no way affiliated with any vendor on this site and wish to stay clear of any controversies of who's legit or not, etc.

Best to all this holiday season.

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  #186 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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@mr11 yes wrong place. This thread is about a different vendor.

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro

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  #187 (permalink)
 ostadler 
Munich, Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Dorman/Rithmic
Trading: NQ, CC, ZN, ZB, ZF
 
Posts: 20 since Mar 2010
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Hi all,

if anybody is interested in my OFA/Ninja full license please contact me via pm. Of course everything will be done in accordance with OFA, so we will transfer my license officially.
Why? Because I stop trading, it was a hobby, but I have no spare time left, and as of lack of time I lost quite some money which has to stop now

Thanks and greetings,
Oliver

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  #188 (permalink)
 OrderFlowAnalytics 
San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: OFA, Ninja, eSignal, R-Trader
Broker: Dorman/ZenFire + IQfeed + eSignal
Trading: ES, 6E, 6B
 
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Big Mike View Post
@mr11 yes wrong place. This thread is about a different vendor.

Sent from my LG Optimus G Pro

Mike,

Jason at The oil Trading Group is actually a partner with OFA. He uses our software to assist in his CL strategies so it's really not off topic since he promotes and sells OFA. Up to you but I just wanted to clarify.

DB

If you have any questions about the products or services provided by Order Flow Analytics, please send me a Private Message or use the BMT "Ask Me Anything" thread.
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  #189 (permalink)
 sands 
London + UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Proprietary Analytics
Broker: Multiple broker + Multiple feed
Trading: Currently European and US equities
 
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Posts: 443 since Dec 2013
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Hi,

I've heard a lot of critique around the merits of order flow tools generally rather than a specific review of the attributes of these tools. As someone shopping for some new tools now I'd like some views on specific strengths and weaknesses. What makes this order flow tool markedly different from others such as market delta, ranching dinero or the Gomi ladder I've heard mentioned here etc. is the tool not also an order footprint? What makes it different or better or worse.

I've spoken to folks that say order flow analysis doesn't work for them. Personally I'm looking for order flow for a couple specific applications (i) to confirm entry/exit points from other price volume analysis and (ii) to pinpoint the timing of entry and exits. With any tool it's application is key. You don't use a stopwatch to tell you what time of day it is.

Thanks

Sand.

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  #190 (permalink)
 tikard 
Idaho Falls, ID
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, InfinityAT, Investor RT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 4 received

I purchased the OFA software. When defects were identified DB was very harsh.

I stopped using the software.

Anyone interested in a license can contact me. Will make a deal.

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  #191 (permalink)
 Greatwest1 
Nelson, B.C. , Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja
Broker: IB.ca
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Hi Tik,

I have the same ofa program and never had an issue with DB.
I have had glitches with it last winter, but DB responded quickly and he
fixed them . I was actually surprised how quickly he got back to me.

Otherwise it's an interesting program , but you have to work with it and
don't expect it to be the 'answer' or 'holy grail' .
Stay with it...
Cheers, Greg K.

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  #192 (permalink)
 rleplae 
Gits (Hooglede) Belgium
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader, Proprietary,
Broker: Ninjabrokerage/IQfeed + Synthetic datafeed
Trading: 6A, 6B, 6C, 6E, 6J, 6S, ES, NQ, YM, AEX, CL, NG, ZB, ZN, ZC, ZS, GC
 
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Greatwest1 View Post
Hi Tik,

I have the same ofa program and never had an issue with DB.
I have had glitches with it last winter, but DB responded quickly and he
fixed them . I was actually surprised how quickly he got back to me.

Otherwise it's an interesting program , but you have to work with it and
don't expect it to be the 'answer' or 'holy grail' .
Stay with it...
Cheers, Greg K.

I agree

I bought new hardware last month and had an issue to reinstall/activate OFA
DB provided remote support on very short notice (like in less than 30 minutes)
he workd for 15 minutes on it and found the issue
i am in europe, difference on decimal point and comma

It is the second time he helped me
service provided by DB is good and very correct

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  #193 (permalink)
 BeachTrader 
San Diego
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP / CQG
Trading: CL, ES, NQ
 
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Greatwest1 View Post
Hi Tik,

I have the same ofa program and never had an issue with DB.
I have had glitches with it last winter, but DB responded quickly and he
fixed them . I was actually surprised how quickly he got back to me.

Otherwise it's an interesting program , but you have to work with it and
don't expect it to be the 'answer' or 'holy grail' .
Stay with it...
Cheers, Greg K.

To be fair to @tikard, I owned OFA a few years ago and noticed that DB tends to not be as tolerant of some folks who ask what he considers dumb or repetitive questions. I understand that can be annoying, but it was obvious he was exasperated on more than one occasion.

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  #194 (permalink)
 Magiklair 
Alexandria, Minnesota
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja trader
Broker: IB / IQFeed
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 135 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 30 given, 37 received

This looks like it's more for futures than Forex trading. Is that correct? Or does it work well for Forex. It looks kind of interesting..

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  #195 (permalink)
 exiledgoblin 
Toronto, ON
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/CQG and Interactive Brokers
Trading: ES
 
exiledgoblin's Avatar
 
Posts: 73 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 7 given, 20 received

Won't work for Forex because the necessary bid/ask volume information is not available for Forex. Could be used on Forex Futures.

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  #196 (permalink)
 outrigger999 
Seattle, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, IB
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received

Hi Folks, if anyone is interested in a full package of OFA please contact me through a private message. This sale is sanctioned by OFA. Thanks.

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  #197 (permalink)
 COTtrader 
Michigan, Jackson
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT and TS
Broker: NT Continuum
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 857 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 389 given, 552 received

@Magiklair -- you can use OFA to trade forex using futures as a price proxy. I think OFA has suggested the same.

Ken


Magiklair View Post
This looks like it's more for futures than Forex trading. Is that correct? Or does it work well for Forex. It looks kind of interesting..


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  #198 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
Posts: 278 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 69 given, 268 received


outrigger999 View Post
Hi Folks, if anyone is interested in a full package of OFA please contact me through a private message. This sale is sanctioned by OFA. Thanks.

Just not your cup of tea?

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  #199 (permalink)
 outrigger999 
Seattle, WA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, IB
Trading: Futures
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 0 given, 0 received


emini2000 View Post
Just not your cup of tea?


Yes, just not my cup of tea. This is a very good product but more for the thicker markets in my opinion.

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  #200 (permalink)
 tikard 
Idaho Falls, ID
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS, InfinityAT, Investor RT
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 0 given, 4 received


BeachTrader View Post
To be fair to @tikard, I owned OFA a few years ago and noticed that DB tends to not be as tolerant of some folks who ask what he considers dumb or repetitive questions. I understand that can be annoying, but it was obvious he was exasperated on more than one occasion.

Sorry but it was not a dumb or repetitive question. It was definite bugs in the software. He is short fused and arrogant. It is okay those things usually catch up with people in life.

Took bootcamp from him and that was the one of the biggest ripoffs ever.
Poor quality presentation, lack of flow, technical issues and no attempt to follow-up.
It was 10% the quality of the things he put on Big Mikes.

Maybe some have had good response from DB but I can not recommend OFA.

The moderator of the room apologized for his behavior.

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