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ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review


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ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review

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  #1 (permalink)
Merkd1904
Atlanta, Georgia
 
 
Posts: 94 since May 2021
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So, over the course of the summer i've dove head first into the world and more so the experience of the funded trader/trading world. And it's been a hell of an experience, mostly for the better.



Back in May I stumbled across Topstep via a trading stream that someone who had found my posts on Reddit was hosting. I immediately was blown away as I was trading micro's on Tastyworks and it was like going from a Pinto to a 911 Turbo. Shortly thereafter I blew up the Tastywork's account and happened across Topstep.



Fast forward to current times I got funded through Topstep and promptly fell on my face in that account too. Here's a hint, don't trade while traveling, and that includes airports and airplanes.



I'm currently (hopefully) at the butt end of my second combine with Topstep, but through another Discord I'm in I had someone mention in passing something called Apex Trader Funding. Thinking it was something or other to do with Apex Clearing House (Still not sure if they're affiliated to be honest) I gave it a peek. The website looked as if it was set up the day before using.. Well, it's pretty simple. Let's just put it that way.



BUT, and there's a big but.



They offer nine different account sizes from 25k to 300k sporting anywhere between 4 contracts for the 25k account (or 20 micros) all the way up to 35 contracts (or 70 micros) for the 300k account. And on top of that they offer:


  • No daily loss limit
  • Only 10 days for an eval
  • You can trade till 4:59 EST
  • No lot limits or scaling plans
  • you can hold positions through econ prints, news, and holidays
  • $80 resets
  • Can trade a massive list of futures markets (will post list below)



    And then


  • The account comes with a NinjaTrader8 license key
  • Rithmic (top of book) data feed
  • The first 10k is the trader's (with withdrawal restrictions on your first four withdrawals)
  • A 90/10 split after the first 10k
  • only a $85/month fee for data and upkeep once funded
  • Unlimited amount of live accounts, but it states on their website they reserve the right to cap. Meaning yes, you can buy 20 accounts run a trade copier and go to town. They even teach you how to do it on the website
  • Once funded the trailing max drawdown stops trailing (like how i understood it) at your MTD +$100



And did I mention they were running a 30% off coupon as well?



It's as if i was a penguin marooned in the desert, and Apex Trader Funding was selling me discount express tickets to the artic circle. I was sold.



It's literally made to be a Insert whichever funded trader program you dislike the most here killer. They took every possible complaint they've heard or read and tried to specifically undercut or box out whoever that funded trader program might be. So, what's the catch? Well, there really wouldn't be one if you understood/understand Leeloo's "Live max trailing drawdown", but we'll get into that in a minute.



In my haste I watched the video on the front page while shopping for whichever account i wanted to begin with, and to be honest, the video looks as if it was filmed in a garage and could use some sprucing to be kind. I landed on the 150k account which has a generous (so I thought) 5k max trailing drawdown, and a 9k profit target. In comparison to Topstep this was a drink of ice cold refreshing water. The two step combine and their "it's to help you not us" mentality is kind of wearing, and after being funded and stopping out within two weeks with little to no interaction from their team I was a little jaded. The only reason I jumped back in was more out of pride, and the fact that they shot over a 30% coupon.



I paid my due and was sent over the login details for both Rithmic and NinjaTrader within five or so minutes and was off to the races. It was Fed day and I wanted to try and pad the account with some sweet sweet volatility. Obviously not understanding what the hell I was doing I already had RTRader Pro on my laptop from a previous demo, so just fired that up and got into the charts since already had them set up and did the proverbial "is this thing on" as I sent a contract downrange. Fired, target hit, we're in business.



I primarily trade NQ and ES and generally can take a pretty mean drawdown to get a decent trade. And by decent i'm usually looking for at least a 3:1 R:R or 25 to 50 point extensions. So, Fed news hits and, of course, RTrader and the data in general was like sucking a milkshake out of a stirring straw. But I hit a decent trade, but then take a pretty nasty drawdown trying to re-enter. Get another decent trade, and then get chewed up trying to get reset. Bam, reset.



I thought, hmm, that was kind of odd. So, took a deep breath. Went back into my email, got the information for NinjaTrader (I have never used NT at all and was pretty stoked on this portion), got it set up, connected to data, and reset the account. Now keep this in mind I had never used NinjaTrader before



Fast forward to I think later that night and I hit a couple good trades. Being up somewhere around 3-4k, but the learning curve, at least for me, was pretty steep. Like, real steep. I was manually placing limit sells and buys, having to manually click in my stops, all while my computer fights with this hog for resources (and I don't have a punk of a computer either) and next thing I know. I can't place trades.



So, at this point I know something's wrong. There's no way no got anywhere near what I thought should be the max trailing drawdown. Well, upon further inspection Apex runs a "Live Max Trailing Drawdown". And, to me that meant nothing at the time of account set up. And, at the time there wasn't really any clear distinction or explanation of what a "Live Max Trailing Drawdown" was. It wasn't really explained anywhere in plain English on the website.



But, in their defense they do spend a solid five minutes explaining the LMTD in the video you watch on the front page. The one in the garage. And furthermore I'm not a big video guy anyways. I usually have a lot going on and do not have the time to watch little bites of 4-5 mins to explain something simple. If it's important. Spell it out in plain english.



Well, the joke was on me.



After taking my second reset I went back and did some digging around. And even then it was about as clear as mud. I reached out to their "contact us" or support ticket system and explained that I really didn't understand what the "live" portion meant in "live max trailing drawdown.



If you're not familiar. The "live" portion means that the max trailiing drawdown is tracking your unrealized P/L. So think of it as a high water mark. Again, the max trailing drawdown tracks your unrealzed P/L and is set from your highest P/L mark. Meaning, if you have a 5k max trailing drawdown and you hit a 10k intraday, but close the day only up by 7k, you're only up 2k from the max trailing drawdown. This is and was counter intuitive at the time and not going to lie, I kind of felt a tad bit duped. But, at the same time I should have done my own due diligence and ultimately, it was my fault.



So I mentioned to their support person how I felt, and that they should probably be more clear in that message, but all in all it was my fault. They also have a 100k account for 2 mini's and 20 micro's and a "Static" max drawdown of $625.. The static portion is how it works in their live accounts. Meaning once you hit $625+ in profits it's home free with no daily loss limit. Yeehaw, right?



Well, yea kinda. I ended up picking up the static account, and resetting my 150k account and by the time i went to sleep I had already stopped out of the static account mainly due to ignorance in using the platform.



The next morning in pre market I get positioned in a sweet H&S, but this time I have trailing stops, the account info window set up on another screen so I can monitor my max liq price, and i end up hitting a 50 point move with nine contracts. I take about a 1.5k loss trying to get repositioned on what i thought was a counter trend, call it for the time being, set some limits in both ES and NQ and go and take a shower. I come back to almost all of those contracts getting ran through the first five minutes of trade, and one that decided to tag along with price instead of getting stopped out. (this happens to me a weird amount). So, checking my max liq I'm a decent amount away from the trailing drawdown so keep trading. Try to get positioned on I don't even remember, get a couple contracts stopped out, and bam, I'm locked out of the account again.



At this point, heated, I walk away for a couple hours. I come back and start going through the data and just going off of the values in NT's accounts window something was off. I was somewhere like 2k away from the max liq value, how the hell did i get stopped out? So, i toss everything into a google sheet and do the math and sure as shit, there's somewhere around a $2000 chunk of my P/L missing before I hit the max trailing drawdown of 5k.



So, I write an email essentially saying "Hey dude, what the hell." as I thought i was monitoring my P/L and doing everything I could to "lock in profits". Well, as it turns out, Apex figures in a $3.98 round trip commission. That NinjaTrader does not track. And on top of that, you're supposed to be monitoring your max liq through RTrader, not NinjaTrader. Again, if anything this was very vaguely if at all covered and at this point I'm legitimately a little perturbed. As I did feel gotcha'd.



I go back and forth with Darrell, whom I'm pretty sure runs the joint, and a couple other people. Sparing the details I essentially told them how I felt, and made my case and was going to just leave it at that and take it as another lesson learned. Sparing the nitty gritty as this is already getting way too long I woke up the next morning to an email from Darrell saying that he appreciates the feedback, and although he thought they had sufficiently covered the issues already, had taken my recommendations and added language both on the FAQ and the welcome email, and reset both my accounts. I was honestly not expecting this and although I was upset. Was just going to let it lie. I'm not the type of person to make a scene unless it's something I'm truly principled about. Not being treated fairly is one of them, but this was not the hill to die on.



In my opinion Darrell made it right through resetting both accounts without me even asking, and actually following through on the feedback portion. That went a long way with me. It seems as if ApexFunding is a smaller outfit. And from what I can gather they're legitimate with an address in Austin Texas, and it is the same Darrel from Apex Investing Institute which has from what I can tell no bad press. By smaller outfit I think and it feels like it's himself, and one or two other people running the show.



The only things you can really find on the funding portion only go back a few weeks and with that, they're running an ultra aggressive business model trying to take everyone else at the knees. So I get it, they have to make money somewhere, and I respect that. All I asked is that they did it fairly, and so far it seems like they're.



And on that note especially running this type of aggressive business model, and a 30% discount they're probably inundated or were inundated, with people just like me. The funded trader space is rapidly becoming more and more competitive. With Topstep even changing around its eval rules this week as well. So it's nice to see some good old free market capitalism in the space as it really is becoming more and more popular with people like myself.



Overall I give Apex a thumbs up. The fact that they legitimately made something right that was fairly both of our faults and even went the extra step made a good impression on me, And as time goes on and this business evolves it's going to be interesting to see how they evolve with the times/popularity. I ended up picking up another two accounts. A 50k, and another 100k static. I'm currently at the profit target in three, stopped out of one, and the closest one to being funded happens middle this week. So with them being so new i'll update the experience here if people would like. If you want feel free to check out their website at: https://apextraderfunding.com/ (not Apexfundingsource.com, yes that's another website)





Markets you can trade:



CBOT, CME, COMEX, NYMEXSymbolExchange

Equity Futures

E-mini S&P 500 (ES)ESCME

Nikkei NKD (NKD)NKDCME

E-mini NASDAQ 100 (NQ)NQCME

Mini-DOW (YM)YMCBOT

E-mini Midcap 400 (EMD)EMDCME

Russell 2000 (RTY)RTYCME

Interest Rate Futures

Eurodollar (GE)GECME

2-Year Note (ZT)ZTCBOT

5-Year Note (ZF)ZFCBOT

10-Year Note (ZN)ZNCBOT

30-Year Bond (ZB)ZBCBOT

Ultra-Bond (UB)UBCBOT

Currency Futures

Australian Dollar (6A)6ACME

British Pound (6B)6BCME

Canadian Dollar (6C)6CCME

Euro FX (6E)6ECME

Japanese Yen (6J)6JCME

Swiss Franc (6S)6SCME

New Zealand Dollar (6N)6NCME

Agricultural Futures

Lean Hogs (HE)HECME

Live Cattle (LE)LECME

Feeder Cattle (GF)GFCME

Corn (ZC)ZCCBOT

Wheat (ZW)ZWCBOT

Soybeans (ZS)ZSCBOT

Soybean Meal (ZM)ZMCBOT

Soybean Oil (ZL)ZLCBOT

Energy Futures

Crude Oil (CL)CLNYMEX

Natural Gas (NG)NGNYMEX

E-mini Natural Gas (QG)QGNYMEX

Heating Oil (HO)HONYMEX

New York Harbor (RB)RBNYMEX

Metal Futures

Gold (GC)GCCOMEX

Silver (SI)SICOMEX

Copper (HG)HGCOMEX

Platinum (PL)PLCOMEX

Palladium (PA)PACOMEX

miNY Silver (QI)QICOMEX

miNY Gold (QO)QOCOMEX

Micro Futures

Micro E-Mini S&P 500 (MES)MESCME

Micro E-Mini Dow Jones (MYM)MYMCME

Micro E-Mini Nasdaq-100 (MNQ)MNQCME

Micro E-Mini Russell 2000 (M2K)M2KCME

E-Micro Gold (MGC)MGCCME

E-Micro AUD/USD (M6A)M6ACME

E-Micro EUR/USD (M6E)M6ECME

Micro Crude Oil (MCL)

MCL

NYMEX

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  #2 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Merkd1904 View Post
So, over the course of the summer i've dove head first into the world and more so the experience of the funded trader/trading world. And it's been a hell of an experience, mostly for the better.

Well, I read all the way to the end. We don't have a review on these guys, so it is good to have one now, and a thread for other comments.

The thing about an affiliate program did stand out. Under site rules, affiliate links and programs are not allowed, because they make you a vendor yourself, basically. You can be a vendor if you register as one, and we have many who have, but then you can't do anything to promote the business, or have a trade journal, or do anything that would make others think you are a good trader whose product/service they should buy, or even mention any affiliate program or website or offer, because that could involve making money from other members. Our experience with vendors on the whole has been a grim one, and we developed our policies from experience.

So you'll need to remove that from your post, and not follow through if anyone asks, or you can register as a vendor and follow the vendor rules, which are deliberately written to make it hard or impossible to benefit financially from your membership. As a vendor, you would also lose your trade journal, and you could not make a vendor review either. The rules are here, under the section on "Vendors and Self-Promotion," and we take them dead seriously: https://futures.io/disclaimer/

I'm not trying to jump all over you, I'm sure it's an innocent thing, but you will need to take that part out of your review. There is normally a 24-hour window for edits, but I think I recall that post #1 can be edited any time. If not, I'll just have to remove the post and it will have to be re-entered if it's going to be here. (Mods never edit another user's posts. Your words are always your own.)

Sorry, I don't mean this personally or negatively. It's just how we do things related to selling.

Bob.

------------------

Edit: and while I'm trying to be nice about it, if this review had been posted by someone brand-new who didn't have a history of posting here, it would have been deleted and they would have been banned. So please clean that up and take this seriously. Thanks.

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 matthew28 
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Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
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Merkd1904 View Post
And on top of that they offer:
  • No daily loss limit
  • Only 10 days for an eval
  • you can hold positions through econ prints, news, and holidays
  • $80 resets

    And then
  • The first 10k is the trader's (with withdrawal restrictions on your first four withdrawals)
  • A 90/10 split after the first 10k
  • only a $85/month fee for data and upkeep once funded

Well, as it turns out, Apex figures in a $3.98 round trip commission. That NinjaTrader does not track. And on top of that, you're supposed to be monitoring your max liq through RTrader, not NinjaTrader.

That's quite an essay

Glad you're pleased with the company. Just a couple of points that I would mention.
I think a lot of people quibble about various funding company rules, but most people trading their own accounts have similar ones regarding: how much they are prepared to lose, how large they can trade, when they can trade.
At least with your own personal account though you can program in those limits if the platform or broker allow, unlike funding companies where you can blow the account. But one would still have a DLL that was less than the maximum loss or you could lose the account with one bad day (as you found out, twice).

I only have experience with Topstep. In the past week they have removed the Step2 minimum days requirement. Step1 is still five days minimum, Step2 is now consistency based. The largest day can be a maximum of 40% of the profit target. So both steps could be done in ten days. This stops the people going all in trying to pass in a day, resetting until they do then trading the rest of the time for a tick.
(They have also removed the 20 seconds minimum profitable trade rule).

Again, it is nice not to risk losing the account for breaking a rule, but if day trading Crude for instance, you wouldn't hold through the weekly EIA Inventory report. If day trading I would still be flat through major news events whether it was prescribed or not.

$80 resets are better than $100, but when I am blowing up it is because what I am doing doesn't work. Resetting straight away and then doing it again isn't any better if it is costing me $20 less. I can wait for the reset at the end of the month if necessary.

The first $10k is nice compared to Topstep's $5k, and a 90% profit split compared to Topstep's 80%. Same with $85/month when funded rather than the CME professional data fees per exchange that Topstep bill for. Can't argue with any of those

Lastly, something that might be useful. I haven't used Ninjatrader for awhile but you can have commissions/fees deducted for net PnL. It is quite simple and I recall there was a page in the Ninjatrader help file on commissions that explains it.
I do remember that once set up you then need to go to the account settings tab and add that commission model to the relevant account. It will need to added to each of the accounts you have, and again if resetting an account changes the account number, then Ninjatrader will show the day's PnL correctly.

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Merkd1904
Atlanta, Georgia
 
 
Posts: 94 since May 2021
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bobwest View Post
Well, I read all the way to the end. We don't have a review on these guys, so it is good to have one now, and a thread for other comments.

The thing about an affiliate program did stand out. Under site rules, affiliate links and programs are not allowed, because they make you a vendor yourself, basically. You can be a vendor if you register as one, and we have many who have, but then you can't do anything to promote the business, or have a trade journal, or do anything that would make others think you are a good trader whose product/service they should buy, or even mention any affiliate program or website or offer, because that could involve making money from other members. Our experience with vendors on the whole has been a grim one, and we developed our policies from experience.

So you'll need to remove that from your post, and not follow through if anyone asks, or you can register as a vendor and follow the vendor rules, which are deliberately written to make it hard or impossible to benefit financially from your membership. As a vendor, you would also lose your trade journal, and you could not make a vendor review either. The rules are here, under the section on "Vendors and Self-Promotion," and we take them dead seriously: https://futures.io/disclaimer/

I'm not trying to jump all over you, I'm sure it's an innocent thing, but you will need to take that part out of your review. There is normally a 24-hour window for edits, but I think I recall that post #1 can be edited any time. If not, I'll just have to remove the post and it will have to be re-entered if it's going to be here. (Mods never edit another user's posts. Your words are always your own.)

Sorry, I don't mean this personally or negatively. It's just how we do things related to selling.

Bob.

------------------

Edit: and while I'm trying to be nice about it, if this review had been posted by someone brand-new who didn't have a history of posting here, it would have been deleted and they would have been banned. So please clean that up and take this seriously. Thanks.


Got it. Deleting.


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Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 281 since Aug 2018
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Yeah. That was quite the essay. Some paragraphs would have made that easier to read.

Considering the trailing drawdown on unrealized profits - what would you say is the biggest difference compared with LeeLoo?

The 150K account on Apex and LeeLoo seems pretty much the same. Buying power, drawdown, profit target and cost ($8 difference) is the same.

Am I missing some differences?

With LeeLoo having been around longer, personally, I would probably go for LeeLoo on that basis alone.

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Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
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vstolyarov View Post
I would like to know how they handle the maintenance margins overnight if say you swing trading with all those rules...

I don't know about Apex, but many of these companies don't have you trading a live account initially even after you're "funded". Here's what LeeLoo says:


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Merkd1904
Atlanta, Georgia
 
 
Posts: 94 since May 2021
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Howard Roark View Post
I don't know about Apex, but many of these companies don't have you trading a live account initially even after you're "funded". Here's what LeeLoo says:


That's a valid point and something I'm going to check into tomorrow. I'm really not familiar with Leeloo but as I looked into it yesterday they sure do share a lot of similarities.

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  #8 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 281 since Aug 2018
Thanks: 259 given, 276 received

I signed up after reading a favourable review on some other site. To be honest - I still feel mostly negative about these firms, but at $208 for a try-out with the current discount, it's less than I typically risk on a single trade in my real $$$ account, so I can take that trade.

FWIW, I will utilize a scalping strategy, targeting 1.5 / 3.0 points on ES. I use fixed limits based on fill price, so the trailing drawdown on unrealized profits won't be a problem.

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Merkd1904
Atlanta, Georgia
 
 
Posts: 94 since May 2021
Thanks: 55 given, 115 received


Howard Roark View Post
I signed up after reading a favourable review on some other site. To be honest - I still feel mostly negative about these firms, but at $208 for a try-out with the current discount, it's less than I typically risk on a single trade in my real $$$ account, so I can take that trade.

FWIW, I will utilize a scalping strategy, targeting 1.5 / 3.0 points on ES. I use fixed limits based on fill price, so the trailing drawdown on unrealized profits won't be a problem.


Nice. Got a reply back already on the account type after the eval.


Quoting 
Darrell Martin (Apex Trader Funding)
Oct 3, 2021, 7:38 EDT

They can be sim live or copy trade depending on the traders consistenxy.
Support
https://apextraderfunding.com/

Not sure what sim live is though.


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Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 281 since Aug 2018
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Merkd1904 View Post
Nice. Got a reply back already on the account type after the eval.



Not sure what sim live is though.


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From what I've understood 'Sim live' is simply a simulated account where your orders do not go to the market, but you're still paid on your simulator performance.

'Copy trade' is also still a simulated account, I think, but your trades are copied to some other master account. One could speculate that they simply put traders on a simulated account because they expect most to fail anyway. Thus saving them from the hazzle of setting up an actual live account. But should you seem to do well, they will copy your trades eventually to actually make money.

Most/if not all of these firms are not out to actually fund traders, I think. They simply want your subscription fees since they know the failure rate is very high. Doesn't mean it's not an opportunity for a good trader who can manage his risk of course.

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