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ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review

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  #91 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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chipwitch View Post
I'm still on the fence about these "prop" firms. But I'm probably going to limit myself to about another $1000 dollars loss in my own account before I give one of them a try. Mostly it's just a way for me to straddle the fence between paper trading and full on live trading my own money. I still don't have the confidence I think I should have.

Without offering an opinion on Apex or any other firm, I think that many people are probably better off just trading their own money in the micros, and having the inevitable losses that are the price of admission, and learn about real risk management by using (and sometimes losing) real money.

I personally think that people who are already pretty decent traders but who lack capital may be the best ones to see if they can get funded by a prop firm. If they already know the ropes and just need backing, this can perhaps be helpful for them.

Then there are those who are in-between, and if they are willing to pay a couple of hundred per month (not per trade ), then they might also want to use these firms, as a half-way point between pure, risk-free sim and real, risky trading. It's not enormously better than pure sim, but it may be a little, because they will get a little whiff of what risk-taking is. And truly, compared to the loss of 2-3 points in ES ($50/point per contract), which is about a reasonable stop-loss on one trade, only paying $165 per month is not that much. But it is a cost.

What these firms are not very good for is over-optimistic and over-confident beginning traders who expect to get rich quickly, because they expect to get funded quickly, but who don't have much real experience. They will be the ones who grumble about how the prop firm's rules were unfair to them, when they blow up the account, as many will.

I'm not meaning to be hard on anyone. Blowing up an account can be a good learning experience. If nothing else, it gives one a sense of what trading is really about.

I think if people are careful about what they expect and hope to get out of a prop firm tryout account, it may (or may not) prove to be helpful to them. People will have to realistically consider where they actually are, and decide what will help them, given that assessment.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #92 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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bearpondtrader View Post
So in effect, once you're funded and the 5k is added, but never paid out, you have assured the funding company of no possible loss. You are only risking your profits.

Yeah. The one thing to keep in mind is that you're never really "funded".

There are no 50,100,150 or 300K accounts. Just margin and that's margin you usually have to earn yourself. As soon as you lose that margin, you're gone.



chipwitch View Post
It seems to me that these prop companies' business model is a scam in the same way insurance is a scam. I'm still undecided on both, lol. @bobwest has the right of it wrt the risk per trade. It is higher than what any of us should be risking in our own accounts, on a percentage basis. Clearly, the ES is not advisable. It is a MUCH higher risk than I'd be willing to take in my own account with so little capital. The MES is viable, but then even for the 25k account, Apex's goal of 1500 is a lot to ask of the MES unless you have a proven strategy already. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if you average $10 profit (2 ticks) per trade and have a 1:1 r/r and win half the time, you need to do 300 contracts. That's very possible, but if you can do it, you're better off doing it in your own personal account.

Essentially, they extract a premium in exchange for limiting great potential loss... just like insurance companies. That being said, State Farm has way more of my money than what they've had to pay out on my behalf.

I'm still on the fence about these "prop" firms. But I'm probably going to limit myself to about another $1000 dollars loss in my own account before I give one of them a try. Mostly it's just a way for me to straddle the fence between paper trading and full on live trading my own money. I still don't have the confidence I think I should have.

It really depends on how you define a scam, IMO.

It could be considered a scam in that they don't really provide what they're advertising, i.e., a funded account or "funding" traders. And the account sizes are simply misleading as what you're usually "given" is $2-5K of margin at best. Not to mention all the fine prints they don't directly go out of their way to advertise.

It is an opportunity for a skilled trader, though. However, I don't think it's a good opportunity. If you're skilled enough to pass, you should simply just trade your own money. Or if as some others you pass by using low, low leverage and a long time to reach your target, then what's the use anyway. Might as well trade micros in your own account using the same money you're using to pay for these programs.

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  #93 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Phoenixoboros View Post
Are funded accounts orders really submitted to the exchanges and make it into the orderbook?
A prop firm funding talent recently went down and they didn't even submit funded account orders to the exchanges, it way all simulated in their virtual book.

Hi @Phoenixoboros.

This is a word-for-word duplicate of another post you made in another thread, here:



The question is not irrelevant to funded accounts, but it is not specific to Apex, the topic of this thread, and in general we do not want duplicate posts in different threads, nor posts that are not really on-topic. It makes topics just that much harder for others to follow.

Please don't make these duplicates. I am deleting this one. The other one can still be found in the other thread.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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