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Topstep didn't pay


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Topstep didn't pay

  #61 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
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artemiso View Post
Somewhat related to this thread. I'm curious, do orders sent on these "funded accounts" actually show up on the exchange book and have order IDs that you can call up CME GCC to verify, or are they simply booked on the platform?

Not saying this is what they did, but it's simply better business for them to run it this way:
A) Give anyone a "funded account" which is actually just a simulation account.
B) If they make money on the simulation account, you actually pay them out with cash, thus giving the appearance of a "funded account".
C) If they don't make money and go broke on the simulation account, you collect trade commissions, platform fees but never needed to spend a single real $ funding that account.
D) Make the withdrawal rules and trading restrictions restrictive enough that most users just blow up eventually on their simulation account and experience (C).

I believe that for this one company, TopStep, conjectures A through C have been answered by an experiment done by another trader:


SBtrader82 View Post
I can tell you for sure that, once you get funded the trades are real. You are not sim trading.
I got funded by topstep in the past and I was also trading my own personal account. I placed some limit orders with topstep and I checked the ladder on my personal account.
I checked the ladder whenever I added or removed the limit order with topstep, and you could see the quantities changing accordingly. So once you get funded the trading is real. Trust me.

I used dorman with denali on my real account and rithmic with topstep.

I think that, for this company at least, this addresses and answers the question of whether it's all fake. But it doesn't rule out every possible criticism.

It may very well be true that some or all of "these companies" are basically making their money through collecting fees and overly restrictive rules that are designed to make people fail. This is a fairly popular idea, particularly among people who have failed them, and it may be right for all I know.

But this thread began with a particular situation, where TopStep applied a rule retroactively to not pay a withdrawal, and I haven't seen anyone who thinks this was the right decision. In fact, I can't see how anyone could.

The affected trader, @TraderAnna, has moved on and found another avenue, outside of a funding company. I suggest there are perfectly good threads that are dedicated to more general topics about the various funding companyies' practices, and general discussions and conjectures about them would be better pursued there.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

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  #62 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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TraderAnna View Post
You know.... something useful.
In the meanwhile I will get funded by someone(another trader) but I had to manage this locally. This seems to be the best solution.
From my point, this case is now closed.

On the other hand I got a lot of positive energy which I didn't expect and I am very thankful for, it is a great community.
I don't know if this forum is over-moderated, but in general it is good to have moderators. It keeps the topic focused, so thank you.

I'm very glad you shared your story, too, and would not worry too much about andrej.

I personally believe it's important that we as (retail) traders stick together. If anyone tries to exploit us or operate un-ethically that should be exposed and pointed out.

So, thank you.

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  #63 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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artemiso View Post
B) If they make money on the simulation account, you actually pay them out with cash, thus giving the appearance of a "funded account".

What if some trader comes along who actually makes a windfall profit? What then? Oh, it already happened. And he's not getting paid (not Topstep). Many companies actually operate like this, i.e., OneUp, LeeLoo, etc. See the 'other' thread for this.

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  #64 (permalink)
 
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 phantomtrader 
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Howard Roark View Post
What if some trader comes along who actually makes a windfall profit? What then? Oh, it already happened. And he's not getting paid (not Topstep). Many companies actually operate like this, i.e., OneUp, LeeLoo, etc. See the 'other' thread for this.

Can you link to the other thread? I haven't had any problems with OneUp either in trading or withdrawing. Is there a rule about windfall profits?

  #65 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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phantomtrader View Post
Can you link to the other thread? I haven't had any problems with OneUp either in trading or withdrawing. Is there a rule about windfall profits?

No, not as far as I can tell.

I just pointed out the problem with the business model as suggested by artemiso. Paying peanuts to profitable traders who trade only in simulator is not a problem - unless there's actually a trader who makes a windfall profit. How will the company afford to pay such a trader if it's not market generated profits? The subscription fees from failed traders can only pay for so much.

There's a case pending about a guy who actually did make a windfall profit through some other firm (+ $200K) and is not getting paid. I can only assume it is because he was in fact trading simulated on his live account and they can't afford to pay him out.

Specifically how OneUp does it I don't know. Maybe profitable traders are put on a real live account eventually. But everything suggests that your initial live account is a simulated account.



If you want to, you can reply in the thread I just linked to as Bob wants us to stay on topic (TST and Anna's case specifically) on this thread.

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  #66 (permalink)
 
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 phantomtrader 
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Howard Roark View Post
No, not as far as I can tell.

I just pointed out the problem with the business model as suggested by artemiso. Paying peanuts to profitable traders who trade only in simulator is not a problem - unless there's actually a trader who makes a windfall profit. How will the company afford to pay such a trader if it's not market generated profits? The subscription fees from failed traders can only pay for so much.

There's a case pending about a guy who actually did make a windfall profit through some other firm (+ $200K) and is not getting paid. I can only assume it is because he was in fact trading simulated on his live account and they can't afford to pay him out.

Specifically how OneUp does it I don't know. Maybe profitable traders are put on a real live account eventually. But everything suggests that your initial live account is a simulated account.



If you want to, you can reply in the thread I just linked to as Bob wants us to stay on topic (TST and Anna's case specifically) on this thread.

Thanks for the explanation.

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  #67 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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phantomtrader View Post
Thanks for the explanation.

You're very welcome!

I consider myself a practical man and I would not hesitate to admit that I'm wrong further down the road if proven otherwise.

It would be great with an update from you in the thread I linked to as you already posted some of your experience there prior to getting funded. You mentioned withdrawals already?

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  #68 (permalink)
 
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 phantomtrader 
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Howard Roark View Post
You're very welcome!

I consider myself a practical man and I would not hesitate to admit that I'm wrong further down the road if proven otherwise.

It would be great with an update from you in the thread I linked to as you already posted some of your experience there prior to getting funded. You mentioned withdrawals already?

Which thread are you referring to? You didn't include a link in your last post.

I've had no problem with OneUp. I tested a small withdrawal which I received. Now I'm in the process of pursuing my original plan which is to scale up gradually. Their support is very good.
I'm an order flow trader. I'm generally done within the first 30 minutes after the NY open. I do the same thing every day. I don't mind posting once in a while but I'm not going to keep an online diary every day.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I'm just posting my own unique experience.

If you give me the link, I can transfer this post to that link which may be more in tune with our discussion.

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  #69 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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phantomtrader View Post
Which thread are you referring to? You didn't include a link in your last post.

I've had no problem with OneUp. I tested a small withdrawal which I received. Now I'm in the process of pursuing my original plan which is to scale up gradually. Their support is very good.
I'm an order flow trader. I'm generally done within the first 30 minutes after the NY open. I do the same thing every day. I don't mind posting once in a while but I'm not going to keep an online diary every day.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I'm just posting my own unique experience.

If you give me the link, I can transfer this post to that link which may be more in tune with our discussion.

As you've posted in it I thought you knew which thread I meant...

Sounds good so far. Not asking for daily updates, but would be great if you keep us in the loop on your progress and if you're able to scale up like you're saying.

Best of luck.


  #70 (permalink)
 
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 phantomtrader 
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Howard Roark View Post
As you've posted in it I thought you knew which thread I meant...

Sounds good so far. Not asking for daily updates, but would be great if you keep us in the loop on your progress and if you're able to scale up like you're saying.

Best of luck.


Ok will post in the other thread.


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