Any long term success stories from funded traders in these get-funded programs? - futures io
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Any long term success stories from funded traders in these get-funded programs?


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Any long term success stories from funded traders in these get-funded programs?

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  #21 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

THE CME states that the maximum a prop firm can take from a trader when they fund the is 20 % so i am not sure how they can charge 80% the CME has strict rules to protect traders from predatory prop firms. google it.

now prop firms can get more out of desk fees interest tech fees etc. but th eprofit share is a max 20 % to the prop firm from what i remember when i maanaged and worked at a stock/futures prop firm back in whoa.. well 2004! OUCH!!


https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/FPB08-02.html

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  #22 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
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  #23 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
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Cutloss View Post
THE CME states that the maximum a prop firm can take from a trader when they fund the is 20 % so i am not sure how they can charge 80% the CME has strict rules to protect traders from predatory prop firms. google it.

now prop firms can get more out of desk fees interest tech fees etc. but th eprofit share is a max 20 % to the prop firm from what i remember when i maanaged and worked at a stock/futures prop firm back in whoa.. well 2004! OUCH!!


https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/FPB08-02.html

That's interesting. I wasn't aware that this was regulated by the CME.

Regardless, it was a simple error on my part. The profit split is indeed 80/20 with 80 to the trader. I think I saw some firm with a 90/10 split, too.

If I'm not mistaken, TST gives the trader 100% of the initial 5K in profits.

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  #24 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 291 since Aug 2018
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I suppose no replies to this thread says it all.

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  #25 (permalink)
 Daytrader999 
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Howard Roark View Post
The profit split is indeed 80/20 with 80 to the trader. I think I saw some firm with a 90/10 split, too.

A profit split of 90/10 to the trader is what Leeloo offers if you manage to let your account staying alive for at least one year.

"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
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  #26 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
Atlanta
 
 
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Cutloss View Post
i just thought of another reason these Pay to demo prop firms are doing this ..

think about the treasure trove of data they are getting from retail traders who actually think they are good enough to get funded. my point is that all of these
demo traders and every trade they make are being recorded becasue if these prop firms can figure out easily what where and when most retail "good traders" trade then they can exploit that for real in their own live trading. imagine being able to have a real time line of data in aggregate of all o fyour demo traders??

you could fade their moves even if not real understadning that 90 % of the time they are WRONG!! then you add a little A.I. and machine learning and well
you have just used paying demo customers to deconstruct the typical retail futures trades..

Not enough orderflow to matter. When companies by order flow, they are looking for huge datasets, not a few sim traders who orders NEVER hit the market. It would be useless to execute on.

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  #27 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
Atlanta
 
 
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Howard Roark View Post
I actually did speak with someone recently who allegedly had funded accounts with two of these companies and allegedly pulled money out of them. I do not doubt that these companies actually do fund traders, but, I'm questioning if they really have an interest in (long-term) funding of traders and not just collecting subscription money from the actual programs which is risk-free money for them. This is the part that's not clear to me. Due to the tight restrictions they impose I'm also sure that many of the funded traders never generate any actual profits as they're probably blowing their accounts before that happen.

I mean. Let's say I get funded. And let's say I manage to generate $5000 in profits. What's next? Withdraw my profits and give them an 20 % cut or is there potential for something more further down the line?

If I generate $10K - what next? Will I eventually be able to trade some size? If the risk is always mine alone I might as well just withdraw my money and put it in my own account.

They call their accounts 75K / 100K / 150K, but that's obviously BS! They say you can trade as many as 10-15 contracts. Obviously BS, too! If you take on 10 contracts with a daily loss limit or trailing drawdown of $1.5K you're very quickly done.

If I succeed and get funded it's because I'm trading fairly conservative with small bets. 150K account. LOL.

I've had this conversation with a few traders!
Hahah
All of those accounts are overleveraged, anyone who attempts to put on full size once they've scaled up is an idiot without basic math skills.

To their credit, the more well-known companies do have a good record of paying out ppl, and from the mouth of some ppl who have used them for a few months on the funded side, they claim that the funding side will customize rules for each trader, including daily drawdown, but it will require obviously keeping REAL money earnings in the account to cover losses.

Big HINT all initial wins aren't from real trading, they don't the whole leader-follower algo until well AFTER a trader proves themselves to be profitable. Who knows when that true time table is. All initial money made is off the backs of traders who have failed evaluations and who have paid for resets.

Because these accounts are overleveraged, because the initial drawdown would kill anyone trying to scale to full size, it only makes sense for ppl taking these to ONLY use the smaller accounts, scale up and request custom drawdown...

The funding really is small and one huge question would always be-- what if they get a skilled or really lucky trader on a good run who runs up say 250k in a month on play money in the funded account that isn't running the leader-follower algo, does the company have enough money to payout? Perhaps not some of the smaller ones like say Leeloo, but will Topstep and Oneup-- I don't know any of the other ones... How willing are they to send that wire???

Would it be a great loss leader so they could advertise-- Our biggest trader cashed out 250k in evaluation and reset fees from the pockets of all of you guys who can't trade or manage risk yet who keep retaking these things!

I think it is all a brilliant business model, not unfair, a bit unethical because they knowingly set poor critical thinkers up for failure.
Smarter traders without money or who want a small influx of cash will benefit most. All others are just donating to these companies...

Long-run value of these companies? There's nothing wrong with paying 20%, many 'real' firms that require deposit have this same setup. The corollary is that the best of the best firms don't require deposit and zero fees, yet the vast majority of traders could never get a 'job' at such places. They want fresh out of uni quants, not guys who learned orderflow from youtube.

If a person if happy with looking at all of this as a deposit firm where you pay 100-400, get $1000-$5000 in funding, then you use a mix of play money and real money to build up an account, then trade based on that balance with the opportunity to scale with better than retail margin, then maybe it will make sense to stay funded for a year or so? It will all depend on how much size you need, how much money you need to keep in your acct and so on. Similar decision a person would make with the 100s of equity firms that give size and demand a deposit. The issue with Futures is that with day trade margin, you don't need to chase leverage like equities traders do...

I wrote a book-- oh well..

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  #28 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Sarasota FL
 
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Cutloss View Post
i just thought of another reason these Pay to demo prop firms are doing this ..

think about the treasure trove of data they are getting from retail traders who actually think they are good enough to get funded. my point is that all of these
demo traders and every trade they make are being recorded becasue if these prop firms can figure out easily what where and when most retail "good traders" trade then they can exploit that for real in their own live trading. imagine being able to have a real time line of data in aggregate of all o fyour demo traders??

you could fade their moves even if not real understadning that 90 % of the time they are WRONG!! then you add a little A.I. and machine learning and well
you have just used paying demo customers to deconstruct the typical retail futures trades..

We do get people sometimes who think that someone is monitoring their trades to trade against them using the "valuable" information this monitoring gives them. It generally seems like an explanation of why the person can't trade well, without an acknowledgement that it's their trading skills behind their losses, not some bad guys who have some special information about their trades. This is sort of the same idea, attributing great value to knowing where small retail traders are trading.

The reason these traders struggle is not that someone is using their trading against them. It's that they haven't learned how to trade well yet.

This is also a likely reason why traders complain that "the rules" are why they have trouble passing the combine/gauntlet things. The rules may be good or bad, and if a particular set of rules does not fit someone, they should not try to trade by them. But the majority of people who do not do well in these firms also do not do well on their own either, for the same reasons: they don't trade well. Not something that is easy to realize, but a necessary one or there is no improvement.


MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Not enough orderflow to matter. When companies by order flow, they are looking for huge datasets, not a few sim traders who orders NEVER hit the market. It would be useless to execute on.

Right. The fact is, no one cares.

Bob.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #29 (permalink)
 SBtrader82 
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I have been funded a couple of times with TopStep, and I want to tell one thing that is often overlooked.
Once you get funded, the trades really go into the market. I checked it because I also have another personal account.
For me this is all that matter.

If you make money or not depends on you, the firm is not playing against you.... so if you can comply with their rules it's definetly cheaper than using your own money.

I know many of you will think that this reply has nothing to do with the thread but for me it's the crucial point.
If the trades actuallly go into the market then (once you are funded) you are really trading, but many companies do not pass the trades to the market.... I don't want to mention the companies that do not, but I did a thourough search and many of them don't.

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  #30 (permalink)
 MNSTrading 
Grand Rapids, Michigan
 
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SBtrader82 View Post
many companies do not pass the trades to the market.... I don't want to mention the companies that do not, but I did a thorough search and many of them don't.

that is really messed up.

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