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TST/OneUp/LeeLoo/Earn2Trade

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  #121 (permalink)
 dsheehan87 
Chicago IL USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
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Tymbeline View Post
Well done, anyway.

To be fair to Leeloo, the wording on their website does say "simulation" (even where describing the so-called "funded" accounts).

They don't actually claim anywhere (that I can find) that it's a live account with a broker. In other words, I think they're not actually a "funding" company at all, (which they do claim to be).

In contrast, FTMO - for example - operate what appears to me to be a very similar process, but they're very open and honest about it and don't actually claim to be "funding" anyone.

The accounts are moved to live if you start taking payouts and it comes out of their pocket to pay you... Sure, they can use all the money from the subs, and sure, when you blow out your account its only sim, but once they see you are making money they have to convert you to live. Same with most of these joints. TopStep (you can start as sim if you want but they force you off sim) was the only one that I know of besides Apteros (which is more like a true prop firm with a CME seat) that starts you live.

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  #122 (permalink)
 shokunin 
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Optimus Futures, Rithmic, Denali
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 71 since Jul 2020
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dsheehan87 View Post
The accounts are moved to live if you start taking payouts and it comes out of their pocket to pay you... Sure, they can use all the money from the subs, and sure, when you blow out your account its only sim, but once they see you are making money they have to convert you to live. Same with most of these joints. TopStep (you can start as sim if you want but they force you off sim) was the only one that I know of besides Apteros (which is more like a true prop firm with a CME seat) that starts you live.

Earn2Trade offers a LiveSim or true Live account - your choice. The Live account takes longer to setup due to paperwork and you are then classed as a Professional Trader so pay CME pro fees for data.
The LiveSim account has a maximum profit limit before they force you onto a Live account.

I'm not surprised that many prop firms do not open live accounts. However, I feel more comfortable with a live account from the outset. If I get a big winner, I'm happy and the prop firm is happy as they profit as well.

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  #123 (permalink)
 shokunin 
Manchester, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Optimus Futures, Rithmic, Denali
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 71 since Jul 2020
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idude View Post
As of today, there are quite of few props out there and their drawdowns differ from each other. Some even have a different name for drawdown like "trailing threshold" or something like that!
They all use 3 different types of drawdowns:
- Live drawdown
- End of Trade (EOT) drawdown
- End of Day (EOD) drawdown

The most dangerous is the Live one and should be a complete "NO NO" for any trader wanting to join of these companies. As your drawdown gets updated as the market goes up, for example if you up 30 tick and the market crashes down, and you end up closing the trade at 10 ticks of profit, guess what your drawdown is 250 dollars shorter now if you are trading the ES.

With EOT your drawdown gets updated at the end of each trade

With EOD your drawdown gets updated at the end of each trading day (at 5pm eastern time)

It is obvious that the best plan is EOD.

The other thing you want to stay away from is something called the "Consistency Rule", by all means do not join any prop with this rule. This means even if you meet your target they might disqualify you if they feel you broke this rule. The markets are too inconsistent and trading with this rule is like have a shotgun pointing at you. Stay away.

The only two companies that I'm aware that have EOD drawdown and that do not have a "Consistency Rule" are TST and Uprofit Trader. These are the only ones I would consider joining if I was looking to join one!

The trailing drawdown is generally a lot larger than the EOD drawdown. For example, with Earn2Trade it is about 3 times larger. In most cases, you would hit your EOD limit well before the trailing drawdown.

The point of the trailing drawdown is twofold:
1. to limit the number of losing days you can have. For example, if the EOD drawdown is $500 and the trailing drawdown is $1500, you blow the account with 3 full losing days. This encourages the trader to plan for losing days, and set the personal maximum daily loss to provide the number of losing days they would like to have available.
2. to encourage traders to identify trades with a determined profit target, rather than just jumping into a trade 'because I think it's going up'. It is necessary to consider where it is going up to and take profit with a limit order rather than on drawdown to a trailing stop.

Regarding the consistency rule, TopStep has a consistency rule for part 2. For Earn2Trade, the consistency requirement is very very low and you can pass the evaluation in 4 days, then trade 1 micro for 1 tick for the remaining 11. So it isn't really what I would call 'consistent'. I find the consistency rule helps as it sets a maximum profit target you're allowed each day. Many traders overtrade - dopamine has no limits. So having a max profit target as well as a max daily loss is helpful.

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  #124 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Sarasota FL
 
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bulldogtrader88 View Post
Hopefully I won't get flamed here. I work for Topstep, and I can genuinely say....

I'm currently in a OneUp evaluation to get funded. I can't get funded with Topstep because of conflict of interest since I work there. I'm currently at around 7k and need 2k more for the profit target of 9k for the 150k account. You can check out my trading journal here:

Hi @bulldogtrader88,

You won't get flamed, because we don't let that happen.

However, I am going to ask you not to post on behalf of Topstep, because, as an employee of Topstep, you are representing or speaking for the company, and your posts therefore either come close to the line of violating our vendor self-promotion policies, or step over it.

Vendors have a right to defend themselves, but they also have to operate under forum rules about promotion, which they are aware of.

You are speaking not as just another trader, but as a Topstep employee and representative, and we would prefer to have any posts of this sort to come from the official Topstep representative on the forum. As a sponsor, Topstep can advertise here and has other avenues open to them, but they do have their own rules to follow.

For this reason, I am deleting your post, and the others you have recently made in defense of Topstep. I honestly had to think about this a bit and from different angles before coming to this decision. If you were simply a Topstep user, posting about your own experience with the company, there would be no problem, whether you were positive or negative toward Topstep. But since you are speaking from your inside experience as an employee of the company, your posts do qualify as vendor self-promotion. I doubt that you meant to break the rules, or even were aware of them, but we need to be fair to other vendors, as well as to follow our commitment to our members of providing a promotion-free space.

I wish you well in your attempt to be funded by OneUp, and I have followed your progress in your thread with interest.

Good luck with it.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #125 (permalink)
bulldogtrader88
 
 
Posts: 23 since Jun 2022
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Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know I was breaking a rule. I'll take care to remove myself from future conversations where Topstep is concerned.


bobwest View Post
Hi @bulldogtrader88,

You won't get flamed, because we don't let that happen.

However, I am going to ask you not to post on behalf of Topstep, because, as an employee of Topstep, you are representing or speaking for the company, and your posts therefore either come close to the line of violating our vendor self-promotion policies, or step over it.

Vendors have a right to defend themselves, but they also have to operate under forum rules about promotion, which they are aware of.

You are speaking not as just another trader, but as a Topstep employee and representative, and we would prefer to have any posts of this sort to come from the official Topstep representative on the forum. As a sponsor, Topstep can advertise here and has other avenues open to them, but they do have their own rules to follow.

For this reason, I am deleting your post, and the others you have recently made in defense of Topstep. I honestly had to think about this a bit and from different angles before coming to this decision. If you were simply a Topstep user, posting about your own experience with the company, there would be no problem, whether you were positive or negative toward Topstep. But since you are speaking from your inside experience as an employee of the company, your posts do qualify as vendor self-promotion. I doubt that you meant to break the rules, or even were aware of them, but we need to be fair to other vendors, as well as to follow our commitment to our members of providing a promotion-free space.

I wish you well in your attempt to be funded by OneUp, and I have followed your progress in your thread with interest.

Good luck with it.

Bob.


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