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Daytrading.Coach Review

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  #101 (permalink)
 
 
Posts: 2,979 since Jul 2012
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Maybe this question is best put to 4 people who I consider "best of the best" here:

@decarleytrading - Carley Garner, Broker Extraordinaire
@mattz - Matt Z, Owner of Optimus Futures, Terrific Resource
@SMCJB - Professional trader for many years
@artemiso - Pro's pro in trading arena


Question: Is it possible for a retail trader, trading less than XX lots, to enter a limit order for a CME product with their broker, but NOT have that quantity show up in the exchange order book? (Or maybe a better question is "under what circumstances would a CME retail trader limit order be excluded from order book?")


Sorry if I put you all on the spot, but this is an interesting question...

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  #102 (permalink)
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^From what I know, it is not possible to "hide" your filled orders, whether be it for a 1 contract or a 1,000 contract order.

Besides, the thread is trying to go in a direction showing how the vendors are trying to "show" their orders (x number of contracts) filled and executed with success, NOT trying to hide those orders.

Not sure why you asking this.

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  #103 (permalink)
 
 
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lightsun47 View Post
^From what I know, it is not possible to "hide" your filled orders, whether be it for a 1 contract or a 1,000 contract order.

Besides, the thread is trying to go in a direction showing how the vendors are trying to "show" their orders (x number of contracts) filled and executed with success, NOT trying to hide those orders.

Not sure why you asking this.

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I asked because the general consensus is that ALL limit orders have to be shown in the book. If there is a way to keep limit orders out of the book, then the analysis earlier in the thread becomes questionable. That analysis assumes orders placed must show up in order book.

If there truly is no way to hide limit orders, then something odd is going on with the trader in post #100 - he claims his limit order did not show in book.

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  #104 (permalink)
 
 
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lightsun47 View Post
^From what I know, it is not possible to "hide" your filled orders, whether be it for a 1 contract or a 1,000 contract order.

Besides, the thread is trying to go in a direction showing how the vendors are trying to "show" their orders (x number of contracts) filled and executed with success, NOT trying to hide those orders.

Not sure why you asking this.

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Also, it is open orders, not filled orders that are the issue...

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  #105 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
Part 1 @gotmetoo


I briefly spoke with a very respected trader on this forum via DM about what you are seeing and his response was “maybe his broker holds orders? He should probably ask his broker what is going on. He may be getting duped by his broker, for example. Why a broker would hold limit orders, I do not know.

.

Sometimes I wonder about my fills. I have had many instances in the past were I place a limit order to go long at $1.00 the market trades at 0.99 then proceeds to decline, I get filled at a dollar then drops to 0.30 cents then a send a market order to get out at .30 cents and get filled for like 0.25. When I would call my broker and asked why this keeps happening he keeps saying I am getting owned by the spread in a fast market. personally I think I was getting taken to the cleaners, paying the tab for my own shellacking, and not getting so much as a thank you for the contribution.

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  #106 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
I asked because the general consensus is that ALL limit orders have to be shown in the book. If there is a way to keep limit orders out of the book, then the analysis earlier in the thread becomes questionable. That analysis assumes orders placed must show up in order book.

If there truly is no way to hide limit orders, then something odd is going on with the trader in post #100 - he claims his limit order did not show in book.

If orders can be hidden in this fashion, would that not make order flow indicators and volume based indicators useless?

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  #107 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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To put simply and in general your broker is probably correct.

A LMT order is a guaranteed fill at the price you specified. A MKT order will get filled at the best available price, which might be better or worse than you expected depending on where the market was trading at that moment the MKT order was actually filled.

In a thin liquidity market you may see a wide spread between the bid and ask and depending on where the market was trading at that moment it can also be a factor.

There are rules around this kind of thing with respect to your brokers behavior when handling your orders etc.

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  #108 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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With all the available information from the CME (links provided in prior posts), experience and confirmation from NinjaTrader (the trading platform in use here) - no matter the data feed - all LMT orders reside at the exchange via your broker if the exchange supports it, which the CME does.

If not, you could argue that it brings into question the validity of those tools if the level 2 data is 'missing' resting orders.
jeliner View Post
If orders can be hidden in this fashion, would that not make order flow indicators and volume based indicators useless?

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  #109 (permalink)
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jeliner View Post
Sometimes I wonder about my fills. I have had many instances in the past were I place a limit order to go long at $1.00 the market trades at 0.99 then proceeds to decline, I get filled at a dollar then drops to 0.30 cents then a send a market order to get out at .30 cents and get filled for like 0.25. When I would call my broker and asked why this keeps happening he keeps saying I am getting owned by the spread in a fast market. personally I think I was getting taken to the cleaners, paying the tab for my own shellacking, and not getting so much as a thank you for the contribution.

I seem to never have that problem with NT, but I only have done futures lately and had my limit order sit at the price and take a second to fill due to all the other orders at the same price. But almost always it is instant buy or sell and its fast. I did do Forex for a very short period of time on MT4 and the spread was so bad I don't see how anyone got in or out at the price they wanted to sell or buy. I guess that's Forex and its fees is the spread of the broker. Didn't last long on that platform or Forex. But I use to use Market in and out for all my trades when I first started. It was with penny stocks and seen a lot of slippage up to 10 cents. But never had any on Futures or any problems with slow orders on NT. I used TD for penny stocks and they was pretty fast before they was free commissions. Now on TD I cant place a trade with out t bouncing around waiting to get filled. They went to crap fast with free commissions. I only use them to buy and hold a stock where to the penny isn't to much of a issue on getting in. But I have market in on Futures on NT and get in with in a tick or 2 when its moving fast. But all I think it is the broker on getting filled due to how they route the orders. The only thing I cant stand about NT is wire fee in wire fee out to get money. They need ACH deposit and withdrawals, and don't see why they don't. They said they was going to over a year ago but still nothing on it.

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  #110 (permalink)
Joplin, Mo. Jasper
 
 
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But anyway, has anyone set up using the indicators that DTC uses and been successful ? Still wondering how good they really stack up.

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  #111 (permalink)
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Ty199 View Post
But anyway, has anyone set up using the indicators that DTC uses and been successful ? Still wondering how good they really stack up.

I was unsuccessful using the DTC indicators.

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  #112 (permalink)
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kevinkdog View Post
Maybe this question is best put to 4 people who I consider "best of the best" here:

@decarleytrading - Carley Garner, Broker Extraordinaire
@mattz - Matt Z, Owner of Optimus Futures, Terrific Resource
@SMCJB - Professional trader for many years
@artemiso - Pro's pro in trading arena


Question: Is it possible for a retail trader, trading less than XX lots, to enter a limit order for a CME product with their broker, but NOT have that quantity show up in the exchange order book? (Or maybe a better question is "under what circumstances would a CME retail trader limit order be excluded from order book?")


Sorry if I put you all on the spot, but this is an interesting question...

Can't say I've been in the exact situation, but combination of Series 3/7 regulatory knowledge and domain knowledge tells me if the explicit instruction is to withhold that order on server-side, e.g. using ISV order routing functionality for spreading or custom execution algo like Quantitative Brokers's fixed income algos - then yes. For that reason, it is plausible that a retail trader will experience the same treatment, though not likely.

What's more likely is that whatever data feed the retail trader is using to make this determination is highly desynced from the order gateway. I've seen that happen when I cross-reference my working orders on CME Firmsoft with a retail feed for my personal account (IQFeed) literally when my orders were making up like 20% of the top levels; I was routing directly to CME through my own iLink over colo - and the depth on IQFeed was lesser than my own orders alone! I've seen this even between the Tokyo and London sessions on FX, where there's often only 3~20 contracts at touch that don't move for long enough for you to visually compare.

The solution? For CME, I recommend everyone just inquire with their broker if they can use the CME Direct platform for click trading. I don't see why brokers won't support it, it's industry standard and I think (I don't remember paying an iLink session cost, although it might've just have been waived so I didn't remember it), much cheaper than any retail platform. You only pay for the display data, and it's waived if you do a few contracts. I use that for last resort click trading if everything else breaks. Edit: it has all the data, and I think has better UI and symbology than all of the retail platforms I've touched.

I would especially use it for options. It comes with QuikStrike which I think is the best vol curve fitting tool you can get for free. Even my colleagues at top 10 OMM firms use it.




But most importantly for this situation, CME Direct's data feed is the most correctly sync'ed I've seen over a public internet line and you can see your own order's exact queue position.

Edit: No, it cannot do charting, but you could just pair it with a charting application but use it for the order entry itself.

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  #113 (permalink)
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artemiso View Post
Can't say I've been in the exact situation, but combination of Series 3/7 regulatory knowledge and domain knowledge tells me if the explicit instruction is to withhold that order on server-side, e.g. using ISV order routing functionality for spreading or custom execution algo like Quantitative Brokers's fixed income algos - then yes. For that reason, it is plausible that a retail trader will experience the same treatment, though not likely.

What's more likely is that whatever data feed the retail trader is using to make this determination is highly desynced from the order gateway. I've seen that happen when I cross-reference my working orders on CME Firmsoft with a retail feed for my personal account (IQFeed) literally when my orders were making up like 20% of the top levels; I was routing directly to CME through my own iLink over colo - and the depth on IQFeed was lesser than my own orders alone! I've seen this even between the Tokyo and London sessions on FX, where there's often only 3~20 contracts at touch that don't move for long enough for you to visually compare.

The solution? For CME, I recommend everyone just inquire with their broker if they can use the CME Direct platform for click trading. I don't see why brokers won't support it, it's industry standard and I think (I don't remember paying an iLink session cost, although it might've just have been waived so I didn't remember it), much cheaper than any retail platform. You only pay for the display data, and it's waived if you do a few contracts. I use that for last resort click trading if everything else breaks. Edit: it has all the data, and I think has better UI and symbology than all of the retail platforms I've touched.

I would especially use it for options. It comes with QuikStrike which I think is the best vol curve fitting tool you can get for free. Even my colleagues at top 10 OMM firms use it.

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But most importantly for this situation, CME Direct's data feed is the most correctly sync'ed I've seen over a public internet line and you can see your own order's exact queue position.

Edit: No, it cannot do charting, but you could just pair it with a charting application but use it for the order entry itself.

Wow, what an amazingly in depth piece of information. Thank you!

Sharpening the pencil back to the vendor in question. They trade the RTY on the CME using the NT platform.

They are trading from Canada, likely via a broker that supports Canadian's and/or direct to the NT brokerage themselves.

On many of their trades that I have analysed where the DOM is visible, the the LMT orders they have showing in their NT DOM are much (in some cases double or triple) higher than what is actually shown in the order book.

This activity is usually a tell that the vendor is trading in SIM but masquerading the trade as if it were a LIVE dollar account.

NinjaTrader have confirmed that real LMT orders (not SIM) will get directed to the order book via the broker (regardless of data feed) providing the exchange supports it. Which of course the CME does.

In their opinion and general consensus is that this vendor is trading in SIM.

Extenuating circumstance of course would exist but these would be rare.

So, we are trying to establish the legitimacy of whether LMT orders could be disguised from the order book either via the broker or the NT platform on the CME and whether this is even allowed via SEC rules.

Remember, we are talking about a 'mom and pop' style setup here. A guy with an NT trading platform going through a reputable broker.

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  #114 (permalink)
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@artemiso, it looks like something in your post is throwing off the formatting on this page, and it is affecting the whole page. I had to scroll way over to the right to find the Thanks button, which was off-screen.

Perhaps the second image needs to be trimmed. This does sometimes happen on this software.

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bobwest View Post
@artemiso, it looks like something in your post is throwing off the formatting on this page, and it is affecting the whole page. I had to scroll way over to the right to find the Thanks button, which was off-screen.

Perhaps the second image needs to be trimmed. This does sometimes happen on this software.

Thanks.

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  #116 (permalink)
 
 
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Thanks, @kevinkdog

Our platform(s) offer traders the ability to use Iceberg orders. These are basically limit orders in which the entirety of the quantity is held on the platform server not the exchange server. This way, the exchange and other traders only see the "tip of the iceberg" regarding the quantity. As those contracts are filled, the platform dribbles the remaining desired quantity to the exchange servers to be seen by others.

This is a more formal and detailed description: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/icebergorder.asp

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  #117 (permalink)
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decarleytrading View Post
Thanks, @kevinkdog

Our platform(s) offer traders the ability to use Iceberg orders. These are basically limit orders in which the entirety of the quantity is held on the platform server not the exchange server. This way, the exchange and other traders only see the "tip of the iceberg" regarding the quantity. As those contracts are filled, the platform dribbles the remaining desired quantity to the exchange servers to be seen by others.

This is a more formal and detailed description: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/icebergorder.asp

Thank you! Yeah, the orders in question here are definitely not Iceberg orders!

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  #118 (permalink)
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I quite literally just got sent this from a DTC member.

I have the entire email chain but for brevity I have provided the most pertinent clips here. This person apparently sent NT support a screengrab from the forum! I am just trying to work out which one. I have asked them but I guess it doesn't matter too much as anyone of them would have been OK.





If anybody has any doubts as to the legitimacy of this they can always contact NT support themselves.

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  #119 (permalink)
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Here is the remaining part of the email message that came from another DTC member via Big Mike and bobwest.

Hey JonnyBoy! I am a current DayTrading.coach member. I am trying to sort out for myself if I have been duped or not. I understand what you are saying about the indicators being, for lack of a better word, replicas of other cheaper indicators. I also watched your video of the DOM while you put in orders on the cash account vs the sim account. I am waiting on the market to open back up to test this myself with my cash account and my sim account. What you are saying certainly makes 100% sense, I just need to see it for myself. (Note: The market opened up while I was typing this and so I did test it. I do not see the increase in the number of standing orders when I placed my order with the cash account. What you are saying makes 100% logical sense as I said earlier, so it may be a setting, the instrument, or some other explanation.)

I will say that when I first looked at DTC, I got the feeling it wasn't legit. I think the more I watched, the more I convinced myself it was possible. Hope is a powerful thing I suppose. Over the last few weeks there have been some changes which I now think are a result of this forum. All these things are seemingly minor but caught my attention for some reason.

1) All the videos were taken down on the youtube channel. This was explained away by DTC. They said that there were so many videos that they were slowing down the site so they were going to take them down and would put them back up later on. This seemed odd to me as I thought all the videos were hosted on Youtube (not the actual daytrading.coach website). So taking the videos down would not change the speed of the website (and indeed it is still quite slow). But I am not a web coder so maybe I am reading too much into it.

2) Around the same time #1 happened, I noticed that the new videos that have started to appear have the "Level 2" market data covering the number of contracts "Jovan" is trading. Not sure why this caught my attention or why he would do that because it is easy to calculate the number of contracts he is using by noting the number of ticks and the PnL shown in the DOM during two different points during the trade. Probably an easier way is just to see how many contracts are listed at the profit/stop loss lines during the trade (if the trades are videoed). Either way, the box was not on the screen in any of the previous videos that I recall.

3) The students formerly had access to the coaches via email and it was posted clearly on the student portal (daytradingcoach@daytrading.coach [Jovan], coachlane@daytrading.coach [Lane Jardie], etc.) but they have moved away from that system and all emails are routed through "help-desk@daytrading.coach". Not sure this shows anything, just another change I have observed over the last few weeks. After reading this forum, I am wondering if some of the "coaches" have started to distance themselves from this?

4) "Jovan" used to post screenshots of his trades to the forum regularly. I just checked the site and I have not seen him post since Nov. 6th. However, I have seen a new "admin" post a few times since then. I do not recall seeing "Admin" post before although "Jovan" is an admin, his screen name usually appears with (@coach-jovan) underneath it. There are no trades from any of the other coaches since coach Lane posted on 11/2. Admittedly, they never posted as often as "Jovan" but still not having a post from any coach in the last 2 weeks seems strange and may point back toward my point in #3.

I feel like this is turning into a ramble at this point so I will stop. I am still struggling with all of this as I see people post trades (most likely sim trades) to the forum everyday. So does the system work? Or more likely, everyone is trading sim because it works only sometimes (as with all strategies.) Anyway, if you have any words of wisdom that you haven't already posted to the forum, I would appreciate it!

P.S.: I wasn't allowed to post to the forum since I just created an account. Truth be told, I think that is for the better until I come to a more formal conclusion.

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  #120 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Looks fine here?

Hi @Big Mike, both @snax and I have put posts in the changelog about this problem. We both got it after viewing a post in his thread, and now the formatting is too wide on every post we view. Details in the changelog.

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Formatting issue seems not related to this thread and @artemiso's post after all. But it is coming and going in odd ways, and @xplorer also has a changelog post about it.

More in the changelog.

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  #122 (permalink)
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It is interesting that @JonnyBoy's correspondent did not see the limit orders on the DOM when he tried it, but I think we need to understand how he went about testing it.

I think that anyone will get the same results following the steps in @JonnyBoy's video file titled "RTY Live Trading Account REAL LIMIT Order Placement" (the first of three), attached to this post:



They should make sure they are in their connected live account, and should place their orders a good distance from the current market price and cancel quickly so there is little chance of the market taking a sudden lunge in their direction and getting them filled. Testing with large orders might be a little risky.

If, after following these steps, the test did not show the expected results, then it would need to be examined to find out why not.

The way that orders on the DOM are displayed is standard and well-known. Orders placed on the book show in the DOM and stay until they are matched. If resting orders were not visible to any market participant, order flow trading, which is widely practiced, would not be possible. Any actual live limit order that is placed on the book is available for anyone to see, using a variety of tools that include the DOM.

If it does not show, it was not submitted to the exchange. It is actually very simple.

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  #123 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
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artemiso View Post
The solution? For CME, I recommend everyone just inquire with their broker if they can use the CME Direct platform for click trading. I don't see why brokers won't support it, it's industry standard and I think (I don't remember paying an iLink session cost, although it might've just have been waived so I didn't remember it), much cheaper than any retail platform. You only pay for the display data, and it's waived if you do a few contracts. I use that for last resort click trading if everything else breaks. Edit: it has all the data, and I think has better UI and symbology than all of the retail platforms I've touched.

I would especially use it for options. It comes with QuikStrike which I think is the best vol curve fitting tool you can get for free. Even my colleagues at top 10 OMM firms use it.

Maybe this has changed recently, but CME Direct (CME's version of WebICE cough cough!) used to be limited to larger traders, prop shops and institutions. In fact checking the website it still says CME Direct: One-Stop Trading: Futures, Options and Blocks for Institutional Traders

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What are these support and resistance lines called ? Well, let me say that again, who has these or what programmer makes them ? I have some but they are real thick and that makes having a support line 4 points kinda usless. Thanks

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Ty199 View Post
What are these support and resistance lines called ? Well, let me say that again, who has these or what programmer makes them ? I have some but they are real thick and that makes having a support line 4 points kinda usless. Thanks

They're not support/resistance lines. The indicator is just a linear regression/EMA combo with some fancy graphics.

See this post:

'>

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Ty199 View Post
What are these support and resistance lines called ? Well, let me say that again, who has these or what programmer makes them ? I have some but they are real thick and that makes having a support line 4 points kinda usless. Thanks

Sorry I should have pointed them out a little more. I drew some arrows to the ones I was trying to mention. I have some but they range from 3 to 5 points, these seem to be more narrow and dont cloud the screen so much.

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  #127 (permalink)
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Ty199 View Post
Sorry I should have pointed them out a little more. I drew some arrows to the ones I was trying to mention. I have some but they range from 3 to 5 points, these seem to be more narrow and dont cloud the screen so much.

The the ribbon band is comprised of two parts ... the Eagle whose data is based on the time frame of the current chart (ie 8bar, 16bar, 32bar). The other band he calls the hawk is actually the eagle of the next higher chart.... so on an 8bar chart, the hawk on a 8 bar chart is the eagle on a 16 bar chart.

does this help?

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  #128 (permalink)
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I am also wondering about the horizontal bands. What is the name of the indicator that plots those lines? Is there one on futures.io?

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  #129 (permalink)
Joplin, Mo. Jasper
 
 
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I have a set that installed on my NT8 that I got free from trading indicators. But they are thick and can range from 1 point to 5 points as S/R. I have been playing with them and seems what time frame you use or ticks or renko which works sometimes they differ in size.

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  #130 (permalink)
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I am also wondering about the horizontal bands. What is the name of the indicator that plots those lines? Is there one on futures.io?

The horizontal boxes? Those are supposed to be support and resistance areas. Not sure on the premise that the are created on.

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  #131 (permalink)
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I'm truly shocked that some people are paying money for that fancy coloured rubbish on the screen.

This must have common ground with religion and mythology in general.

Noobs, don't pay a single dollar to any "system" vendor/guru! Never!

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jeliner View Post
The horizontal boxes? Those are supposed to be support and resistance areas. Not sure on the premise that the are created on.

From the looks of things this is likely using a fractal type indicator, which can easily be reconstructed using the stock version of the Swing indicator native to NinjaTrader.

Bill Williams defined a fractal as a swing high or low with a swing strength of 2. This means that a swing high bar must have a higher high than the two preceding and the two following highs. A swing low fractal should have a lower low than the two preceding and the two following lows. However, the setting here will be MUCH higher.

I need to get my trading PC fully functional (a hectic weekend of moving province) but from spending a few minutes with it, I suspect the setting is around 70 to 90 (I thought 80 appeared to look similar) or something in between. It appears that they have added a ''thickness'' to this Swing line, something like 25 which would give you a 4 tick ''range'' on the RTY. They have also added transparency to it as well.

You would have to modify the existing Swing indicator (which is very easy to do) to make it appear transparent, or you can just use the settings below to get the lines appear solid but with thickness. If the lines end up covering your bars, click on the line in your chart, hold shift and roll your mouse wheel to change the layer it appears on. You can then proceed to ''move'' the lines behind your bars.

Right now I am not really setup to look into it further, so experiment and see what you come up with.

EDIT: The location of these horizontal bands will of course differ depending in what data series and bar type you are using. That is, if I am even correct to what this indicator is or is similar to.


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speck View Post
I'm truly shocked that some people are paying money for that fancy coloured rubbish on the screen.

This must have common ground with religion and mythology in general.

Noobs, don't pay a single dollar to any "system" vendor/guru! Never!

I want to be fair to Day Trading Coach here. The only thing that has been discussed in this thread is their indicators and the fact that plenty of evidence is available to suggest that the "LIVE" trades they have shown (whilst fully indicating they are real live dollar trades by mere title of the videos, commentary and using the LIVE DOM colour in NinjaTrader) were in fact taken from a SIM account.

In addition, they appeared not to like this very much and sent a cease and desist to the incorrect person, which is troubling in of itself. This will no doubt take a life of its own once the correct bodies have all of the information which I am putting together for them now upon request.

It was only after that, this thread literally blew up and here we stand today.

As far as the DTC ''system'' or ''training'' goes, there hasn't been much discussion on this at all. Sure, the indicators are simple and they do have a ''system'' to follow of which I have been given first hand accounts of exactly what they are teaching and how. At some point I will discuss it here, but to be honest this thread is exhausting!

The most pertinent questions a new trader should be asking themselves about this vendor and any vendor is;

a) If the vendor is trading their own system, posting videos to ''prove'' it, lauding about profits and how easy it all is - why don't they also post their brokerage statements as well?

b) If the vendor is promoting anything about becoming a millionaire (which this vendor actually is) you have to use your own fair reasoning to how credible that reality is. It doesn't take a math genius to extrapolate a hypothetical trading model and I can tell you this - it ain't gonna happen trading the RTY anytime soon. Not in a year and probably not even in 5 years.

Again, if I get the energy I'll put something together if only to steer potential new customers into making the right decision and/or at the very least know which questions to be asking to any vendor before parting with any money.

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Thanks for posting the business registrations. After my extensive google search I did reach a conclusion that there was some link between family first dynasty and DTC. Its good to have confirmation.

On a side note Earn2trade is based in the same building as family first dynasty. Earn2trade address on their website is - 30 N Gould St STE 4000, Sheridan, WY 82801. Looks like that building is hub for trading company.

I hope you will able post the details for the indicators.

My guess is that the address is a registered agent for the company. This is standard practice for companies that do not have a fully staffed office or work from their residence. I found Wyoming Mail Forwarding LLC is at this address.

Wyoming Mail Forwarding LLC | Business & Management Consultants - Upper North Platte River Valley! - Saratoga/Platte Valley Chamber of Commerce - Upper North Platte River Valley! - Saratoga/Platte Valley Chamber of Commerce

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Why you will never become a millionaire trading the RTY



"We Teach Day Traders to be Millionaires"'

When a new trader sees a tagline like this, their head is filled with the notion that trading is simple. Just pay the vendor a ton of money, put a bit of work in and all their dreams of living a millionaires lifestyle is just around the corner. The problem is, this just isn't reality. At all. And I'll prove it.

If only new traders were aware of simple mathematics instead of listening to vendors about how this time next year they will be sitting in a new beach house in Maui. It ain't gonna happen people.

You can spend an exorbitant amount of money to become a member of the "Millionaires Club" over at DTC but the chance of it ever happening to you whilst futures trading...and especially trading the RTY...is slim to none.



Let's assume that you are following DTC and trading the RTY. That appears to be the instrument of choice so let's analyse.



Assumptions
1. $10,000 USD starting account balance. This is likely too low to start out trading futures but let's assume this as a starting point.
2. Your intraday margin is 50% of the maintenance margin. Meaning that if you divide $10,000 by 50% of the maintenance margin ($3,250) your starting number of contracts is only 3. Yes, yes I know the intraday margin is actually $500.00 but if you overleverage yourself this way you are just being ridiculous. And remember you are new trader. This is to help protect your account.
3. Weekly net gain is 1.00% of your account. This is a VERY reasonable expectation for a new trader.
4. You can only increase the number of contracts traded when your account balance can support the next jump in margin. For example, to start trading 4 contracts you will need have enough accumulated profits (in this case you account value needs to be $13,082.09 - in other words a profit of $3,082.09 net in your account) so that the account value ($13,082.09) divided by the margin ($3,250) = 4.03 (so 4 contracts)...and so on.

The above assumptions are very reasonable. Let's see how that extrapolates shall we?



Mmm. After 200+ weeks of trading, not exactly millionaire status is it? And already you are starting to trade more contracts than currently sit on the average RTY per price level, especially when you start getting into the 20 contract range. I have discussed why this a ridiculous façade that Jovan has created. Trading more than 20 contracts in the RTY as an individual trader is getting beyond the realm of reality. Of course his number of contracts are in SIM, so he doesn't have to worry about that.

Don't like what you see? Okay, lets assume you can make 2% net gain week over week over week. Wow. Would you look at that. You now own the e-mini Russell. You are literally providing more liquidity than the average number of contracts that total across the 10 levels of DOM.



I will slice and dice these numbers however you want me to and I'll extrapolate the graph accordingly. But this is reality people, sure it might only be ''a'' version of reality but at least it is a realistic one.

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Another message, from a different DTC member came through via Big Mike and bobwest.

I do not know any more details other than what is being said here, but it is posted for all to see.

Right now, I cannot verify what is written below. I will touch base with my clan from Calgary tomorrow to see if I can shine further light on this. It could be real, it could be not.

It does appear that the Facebook and Twitter feed for Day Trading Coach are still active and posting up until today, but I am not sure who is responsible for posting these updates.

Some other DTC members have stated to me that Jovan hasn't posted any charts to DTC since November 06. Coach Lane hasn't posted any charts since November 02 (apparently he has removed Day Trading Coach from his LinkedIn profile [unconfirmed as I don't have LinkedIn]) and Coach Jacob hasn't posted any charts since October 19, but he apparently still ran a DTC class this morning.

Out of respect here, if Jovan (or whatever his actual name is) has had a stroke and it is real, I wish him a speedy recovery. I truly mean that, after which he can hopefully have a discussion with the Alberta Securities Commission once they start their investigation.

If he is lying about the stroke (the suspicion of course is that he is lying and has skipped town) then this would be quite a despicable act.


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In continuation of the post above @Doggo712345


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This Jovan - Fernando Fagundes thing is a bit disturbing. When I signed up for his course, he required a lot of extra ordinary information from me. From all the videos of his successful trading I was sold on the idea that I finally found something, so I was more complicit than I should have been with information that I should not have provided. For example, I had to send an email to him with my drivers licenses as a scanned image. Now that he has that and has attorneys investigating me to find out where I moved is quit frankly concerning. If he is really using other identities to commit fraud, what's going to keep him from using my personal information down the road to do the same thing?

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  #139 (permalink)
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So, I am getting a few direct messages from DTC members who also bought into the program.

So now it appears that there are bunch of people who bought into this program, which main benefit came from a set of custom indicators behind locked code. My entire DTC package was disabled and indicators do not work. Is there any remedy available for software that was purchased like this to get them unlocked so they can be used? I will call NinjaTrader support tomorrow with that very question and see how it goes.

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Let's see if it used @NinjaTrader's licensing, and what they have to say about this given the situation.
jeliner View Post
So, I am getting a few direct messages from DTC members who also bought into the program.

So now it appears that there are bunch of people who bought into this program, which main benefit came from a set of custom indicators behind locked code. My entire DTC package was disabled and indicators do not work. Is there any remedy available for software that was purchased like this to get them unlocked so they can be used? I will call NinjaTrader support tomorrow with that very question and see how it goes.

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Big Mike View Post
Let's see if it used @NinjaTrader's licensing, and what they have to say about this given the situation.

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@RJay - as you have mentioned previously in this thread, Day Trading Coach are business associates of Innovative Trading Solutions, i.e. your company. You have stated that you own the indicator package DTC used and is licensed to individuals by yourself and not DTC. Is this correct?

If, the latest turn of events is true, it appears Jovan (or whatever alias he is using) is now AWOL and has left DTC hanging out to dry. I can only hope that there were no individuals that gave Jovan money to invest on the promise of him doubling it.

Can you please reassure that if existing users of the DTC indicator package wish to continue using these indicators, you will allow their license in perpetuity? And they will not have to take any further action, i.e. contact you. If the license is working today it will continue to do so.

Please confirm.

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jeliner View Post
So, I am getting a few direct messages from DTC members who also bought into the program.

So now it appears that there are bunch of people who bought into this program, which main benefit came from a set of custom indicators behind locked code. My entire DTC package was disabled and indicators do not work. Is there any remedy available for software that was purchased like this to get them unlocked so they can be used? I will call NinjaTrader support tomorrow with that very question and see how it goes.

See my post above. I am sure @RJay will do the right thing.

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You are right. This is very disturbing.

Firstly, I believe lawyers are private citizens just like us. To subpoena personal information about somebody (like from the DMV for example) they would need authority to do so. I doubt that would be granted for a C&D but a lawyer needs to weigh in because I don't know. Of course you were the wrong person anyway, which just adds to the already murky waters.

He got your updated mailing address from somewhere though. How did he do that? We will attempt to get to the bottom of it.

Secondly, I would consider paying for an identity theft prevention service. Equifax for example. I have this with my wife and they email you when anything changes. You can also login anytime and keep an eye on any credit checks (hard or soft) that may have been undertaken without your consent.

Guarding your property title/deed theft is also available from other companies like hometitlelock.

It is apparently easier than you think to steal the title on a house.

I sure hope the DTC members didn't comply and do the same. This is just another red flag in Jovan's (insert alias here) operation.


jeliner View Post
This Jovan - Fernando Fagundes thing is a bit disturbing. When I signed up for his course, he required a lot of extra ordinary information from me. From all the videos of his successful trading I was sold on the idea that I finally found something, so I was more complicit than I should have been with information that I should not have provided. For example, I had to send an email to him with my drivers licenses as a scanned image. Now that he has that and has attorneys investigating me to find out where I moved is quit frankly concerning. If he is really using other identities to commit fraud, what's going to keep him from using my personal information down the road to do the same thing?

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I have made in inquiry with NinjaTrader to find out what they can do to help the customers who may have gotten scammed in this DTC mess. You can see the message here NinjaTrader Forum

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I believe we will be 100% reliant on @RJay here to do the right thing. He is affiliated with Day Trading Coach.

NinjaTrader cannot override vendor licensed "locked" indicators. Legally it is very likely too messy.

However, it is great that you are giving more exposure to this topic. The further we can spread the word about DTC the more people will see it.


jeliner View Post
I have made in inquiry with NinjaTrader to find out what they can do to help the customers who may have gotten scammed in this DTC mess. You can see the message here NinjaTrader Forum

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Not just this vendor, but everyone needs to understand the risks when they buy indicators with a license system out of their control.

I was thinking that @NinjaTrader controlled most all licensing through their system that they offer to developers, and had the power to restore licenses and functionality because of this. Hopefully they comment and say if I'm right or wrong.

JonnyBoy View Post
I believe we will be 100% reliant on @RJay here to do the right thing. He is affiliated with Day Trading Coach.

NinjaTrader cannot override vendor licensed "locked" indicators. Legally it is very likely too messy.

However, it is great that you are giving more exposure to this topic. The further we can spread the word about DTC the more people will see it.



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Big Mike View Post
Not just this vendor, but everyone needs to understand the risks when they buy indicators with a license system out of their control.

I was thinking that @NinjaTrader controlled most all licensing through their system that they offer to developers, and had the power to restore licenses and functionality because of this. Hopefully they comment and say if I'm right or wrong.


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We do offer our licensing as a services to 3rd parties. The agreement to license is between NinjaTrader and the 3rd party, not NinjaTrader and the 3rd party end users.

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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So for example if a vendor leaves 500 paid customers "high and dry" with their indicators disabled/non-functional, there is no recourse available with NinjaTrader?

Everyone needs to know that when they buy an indicator, it could stop working at any time. They are at the mercy of the developer, even after they've paid for the product.

Thanks for the quick reply, and Happy Thanksgiving!

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We do offer our licensing as a services to 3rd parties. The agreement to license is between NinjaTrader and the 3rd party, not NinjaTrader and the 3rd party end users.

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  #149 (permalink)
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So for example if a vendor leaves 500 paid customers "high and dry" with their indicators disabled/non-functional, there is no recourse available with NinjaTrader?

Everyone needs to know that when they buy an indicator, it could stop working at any time. They are at the mercy of the developer, even after they've paid for the product.

Thanks for the quick reply, and Happy Thanksgiving!


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I have been working with any and all clients that have been caught up in that mess.

I now have to take a break from that to respond to this.

Innovative Trading Solutions has never knowingly, left any client "high and dry".

DayTradingCoach to the best of my Knowledge has not as well.

However, both DTC and Innovative Trading Solutions have recently been left "high and dry" by a really smooth con artist.

Even though funds paid by clients were absconded by "Jovan" and we, DTC and I, will probably never ever see any of it, We are honoring all purchases made. All services purchased concerning the trading system software and the associated training are valid and continues as long as we have any say in the final outcome.

If the "Moral Authority" here really wants to help...

He should focus his efforts on tracking down "Jovan" and alerting the authorities. That would helpful to everyone.

RJay

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  #150 (permalink)
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RJay View Post
I have been working with any and all clients that have been caught up in that mess.

I now have to take a break from that to respond to this.

@RJay, I get the sense you are defensive -- but I want to make sure you know I was not directing anything towards you.

As far as I am concerned, you have been a good member of our community for many years and have nothing to worry about with your reputation.

Your involvement with this guy should just be a lesson learned, for everyone involved.

Mike

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I feel bad for you @RayJ - but being angry at who you call the "Moral Authority" is a classic case of blaming the victim (or victim advocate in this case).

The outrage needs to directed at the root cause of the problem, not the people who uncovered it.

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  #152 (permalink)
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RJay View Post
I have been working with any and all clients that have been caught up in that mess.

I now have to take a break from that to respond to this.

Innovative Trading Solutions has never knowingly, left any client "high and dry".

DayTradingCoach to the best of my Knowledge has not as well.

However, both DTC and Innovative Trading Solutions have recently been left "high and dry" by a really smooth con artist.

Even though funds paid by clients were absconded by "Jovan" and we, DTC and I, will probably never ever see any of it, We are honoring all purchases made. All services purchased concerning the trading system software and the associated training are valid and continues as long as we have any say in the final outcome.

If the "Moral Authority" here really wants to help...

He should focus his efforts on tracking down "Jovan" and alerting the authorities. That would helpful to everyone.

RJay


I thought DTC was Jovan. This decision to disable my indicators was Jovan's alone, or so I thought. Are you saying that there are more owners to DTC that just Jovan? Who are these additional stake holders and how did they let this happen?

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  #153 (permalink)
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@RJay, I get the sense you are defensive -- but I want to make sure you know I was not directing anything towards you.

As far as I am concerned, you have been a good member of our community for many years and have nothing to worry about with your reputation.

Your involvement with this guy should just be a lesson learned, for everyone involved.

Mike

Sounds like @RJay got scammed also

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  #154 (permalink)
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Not 100% certain this is the guy - but you might check it out:

OSC bans man based on U.S. fraud convictions
Regulator calls conduct of Fernando Fagundes and New Futures Trading “abusive”

The Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) has permanently banned an Ontario man from the markets, based on a securities fraud conviction obtained in the United States.

The OSC has issued its decision in its case against New Futures Trading International Corp. and Fernando Honorate Fagundes (also known as Henry Roche), imposing permanent trading, registration, and director and officer bans against both Fagundes and the firm.

LINK

Another LINK


Looks like he might have a long history of fraud:

CEASE TRADE ORDER ISSUED AGAINST REGINA BUSINESSMEN
Released on May 30, 2006

The Securities Division of the Saskatchewan Financial Services Commission has issued a Temporary Cease Trade Order against Fernando Fagundes (alias "Shane Silver"), Kim Kowalchuk, Allan Kowalchuk and Reginald Goebel of Regina.

Fagundes, originally from Portugal, was convicted of fraud and income tax evasion in the United States and deported back to Portugal in 1999. He has been living in Regina since 2003.

LINK


Perhaps you could contact the courts to determine where he is presently. They might give you some leads.

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  #155 (permalink)
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Not 100% certain this is the guy - but you might check it out:

OSC bans man based on U.S. fraud convictions
Regulator calls conduct of Fernando Fagundes and New Futures Trading “abusive”

The Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) has permanently banned an Ontario man from the markets, based on a securities fraud conviction obtained in the United States.

The OSC has issued its decision in its case against New Futures Trading International Corp. and Fernando Honorate Fagundes (also known as Henry Roche), imposing permanent trading, registration, and director and officer bans against both Fagundes and the firm.

LINK

Another LINK


Looks like he might have a long history of fraud:

CEASE TRADE ORDER ISSUED AGAINST REGINA BUSINESSMEN
Released on May 30, 2006

The Securities Division of the Saskatchewan Financial Services Commission has issued a Temporary Cease Trade Order against Fernando Fagundes (alias "Shane Silver"), Kim Kowalchuk, Allan Kowalchuk and Reginald Goebel of Regina.

Fagundes, originally from Portugal, was convicted of fraud and income tax evasion in the United States and deported back to Portugal in 1999. He has been living in Regina since 2003.

LINK


Perhaps you could contact the courts to determine where he is presently. They might give you some leads.

Well this also confirms that Jovan was trading Simulation, because he could never have a legal trading account in the US or Canada. When I talkd to Jovan on the phone, he mentioned that he was trading his personal account and an account for investors, guess that was a lie as well.

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  #156 (permalink)
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I have to say that at this point I am glad to see that this thread seems to be arriving, or is close to arriving, to some sort of endpoints, or at least clarity.

I am not happy about all of them, but I am about some:

I am happy that the story of Jovan, or whoever he is, is winding down and that apparently he will not keep operating as he was. I am very unhappy that so many have lost money. No one should ever trust anyone they run into on the internet to the extent that people, sadly, do.

I am happy that there is information out there now that may help others avoid predatory imitation trading gurus. I hope the lesson is deeply learned before more harm is done. I am unhappy that anyone ever falls for these things, although history strongly suggests that many will.

I am very happy that the threatened lawsuit against an innocent person has apparently vanished, along with all the other smoke. This was totally uncalled-for, and obviously helped fuel the outrage about the whole thing. It's ironic that an attempt at suppression was part of what blew the whole thing up, but it's fitting that it did. I am very happy with the response from futures.io members to this attempt at bullying.

I am happy that @RJay is willing to come through and assist those who have been stranded.

I hope no one ever falls for this kind of BS again. I hope it is obvious that if someone offers to make you a millionaire, but you just have to send him some money first, there is something not quite right about this picture. Why hasn't he just made himself a millionaire, without needing your money? Most people would not fall for one of the Nigerian prince email offers, but new traders are doing exactly that, every time they fall for a supposed guru's get-rich-quick pitch. (Sure, I've done this too, and we all probably have. )

Some vendors, certainly, are honest and provide value. But they also do not make excessive, unattainable, overblown claims of easy money in the hardest thing anyone can try: daytrading in highly leveraged markets.

I hope this idea gets through to more traders now.

I am very happy with, and proud of, this thread, and every contributor to it. And of course, kudos to @JonnyBoy for driving it forward.

Bob.

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  #157 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
I have to say that at this point I am glad to see that this thread seems to be arriving, or is close to arriving, to some sort of endpoints, or at least clarity.

I am not happy about all of them, but I am about some:

I am happy that the story of Jovan, or whoever he is, is winding down and that apparently he will not keep operating as he was. I am very unhappy that so many have lost money. No one should ever trust anyone they run into on the internet to the extent that people, sadly, do.

I am happy that there is information out there now that may help others avoid predatory imitation trading gurus. I hope the lesson is deeply learned before more harm is done. I am unhappy that anyone ever falls for these things, although history strongly suggests that many will.

I am very happy that the threatened lawsuit against an innocent person has apparently vanished, along with all the other smoke. This was totally uncalled-for, and obviously helped fuel the outrage about the whole thing. It's ironic that an attempt at suppression was part of what blew the whole thing up, but it's fitting that it did. I am very happy with the response from futures.io members to this attempt at bullying.

I am happy that @RJay is willing to come through and assist those who have been stranded.

I hope no one ever falls for this kind of BS again. I hope it is obvious that if someone offers to make you a millionaire, but you just have to send him some money first, there is something not quite right about this picture. Why hasn't he just made himself a millionaire, without needing your money? Most people would not fall for one of the Nigerian prince email offers, but new traders are doing exactly that, every time they fall for a supposed guru's get-rich-quick pitch. (Sure, I've done this too, and we all probably have. )

Some vendors, certainly, are honest and provide value. But they also do not make excessive, unattainable, overblown claims of easy money in the hardest thing anyone can try: daytrading in highly leveraged markets.

I hope this idea gets through to more traders now.

I am very happy with, and proud of, this thread, and every contributor to it. And of course, kudos to @JonnyBoy for driving it forward.

Bob.

Excellent words.

@RJay - I know you may feel bruised with respect to the indicator situation and the topic of, but that IMO is a tiny piece in this rather large puzzle. It appears that you got caught up in something (as many others did) that nobody saw coming. On your part no exoneration is required and I echo Big Mike's comments in regards to your good standing within the FIO community and as a vendor in general.

By the mere fact you will be honouring existing users indicator license (likely at your cost) is just that, honourable. Hindsight is always 20/20 and perhaps I could have written my posts with respect to the indicators differently, with a less accusatory tone of your involvement with DTC.

You see, I have a lot more information about DTC and Family First Dynasty than I have not posted on this thread. This is in the event it might be needed in the future for legal purposes, which seems to have arrived! However, it does layout how the indicators evolved from FFD to DTC. Of course this is now irrelevant, as you have told me my assumption was wrong and so I bend the knee to that one.

So, with this post and if one is needed I offer the proverbial olive branch. I am not going to pussy foot around here, I need your help and you might have some information that would be valuable to the cause.

I am formulating some documentation to a few legal bodies, one of those bodies is the the Alberta Securities Commission. I was involved in a prior case with the SEC when they prosecuted another vendor a few years ago.

If you are willing to share any information (redacted of your personal information of course) you have on Jovan or interactions with DTC that would help immensely with the investigative team who eventually takes this on. Although it appears DTC might have been started under his son's name (possibly due to his alleged criminal past) Jovan was and always will be the front of DTC just as he was with Family First Dynasty and the two prior trading ventures he fronted.

I have others helping me outside of FIO. If you are willing to participate, please drop me a PM with your email address a burner email address or give me the go ahead to use the email contact available on your website.

I am currently communicating using end to end encryption with the other parties that are also participating in the collection of as much information as possible. If you do not wish to participate then that is fine, but I think anything you have no matter how small could be valuable.

As I said, I have a plethora of information on DTC and FFD that has not been shared on this forum, hence why I am trying to put a package together.

With that said, Happy Thanksgiving!

--------------------------------------------------------
- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
--------------------------------------------------------
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  #158 (permalink)
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So, I sit here dumbfounded and in shock. I am receiving a lot of information from a lot of sources concerning the breath and depth of Jovan's folly. The mass fraud that was committed by "Jovan" through DTC was very well planned and intentional. It appears I was one of his early victims. Deportation was a mistake, life in prison at this point is the only acceptable resolution.

This guy needs to be caught and thrown in jail. He lied to multiple people, knowing that one day this mass deception will come to fruition. He willfully, with malice and forethought, setup his family and associates to take the fall for this fraudulent scheme. He used lawyers, law firms, and accountants, and twisted events in such a way to make things look ligament to everyone. I question the accuracy of the supposed stroke, the depth of awareness of the fraud by everyone involved - including the coaches.

I am taking everything I have on this man and filing a complaint with the SEC here in the United States. When I was a student (aka member) of Family First - I recorded everything, every training session and every email. I burned it all to CD and mailed it to the SEC and two friends I trust, one in Louisiana and one in Texas. Coach Lane, Coach Jacob, this lawyer Ryan, the accountant that was overseeing it all, the McLeod law firm, and all other parties need to thoroughly investigated to determine the extent of their involvement and knowledge of this mess. This man scammed near upwards of a million dollars (if not more) hard earned money from people and had the audacity to threaten me with a lawsuit. How can a supposed reputable law firm (McLeod) be used in such a way to perpetuate this massive fraud? How is it a corporation was setup on the Stepsons name, without his consent or knowledge? Then once Jacob found out about it - why did he go along with it? What law firm/lawyer would do such a thing?

This smells to high heaven. I have gone from being afraid that I will lose everything to some Canadian lawyer to angry as heck for being used in such away.

There are a lot of vultures out there selling promises to help you become a successfully trader. With me, from this point forward, everyone is ling until proven otherwise.

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  #159 (permalink)
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I would speculate he has sent several C&D's to silence negative reviews. This is a known tactic, just like trying to insist on an NDA upon purchasing the product. It's all about silencing people so that it doesn't snowball, like it did here.

I would also speculate that once he saw FIO highlighted this story in our newsletter, he knew he was done for. At this point, other vendors would change their business name and start again. Hopefully not the case here, meaning hopefully he is caught by the authorities.



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  #160 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I would speculate he has sent several C&D's to silence negative reviews. This is a known tactic, just like trying to insist on an NDA upon purchasing the product. It's all about silencing people so that it doesn't snowball, like it did here.

I would also speculate that once he saw FIO highlighted this story in our newsletter, he knew he was done for. At this point, other vendors would change their business name and start again. Hopefully not the case here, meaning hopefully he is caught by the authorities.



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The man "Jovan" intentionally masked his voice on videos and phone calls. Coach Jacob, Coach Lane, and this Lawyer Ryan, who was also a student and was trained at the ranch, had to be very well aware that his voice in person-to-person visits verses his online videos and phone calls were significantly different. I do not believe that "Jovan" is the only perpetrator in this farce. Given this new revaluation, These other individuals had to, at the minimum, suspect something fraudulent was going on. Knowing this, for them to actively participate in the "function of DTC" means they played a role in the deception. Maybe they were not aware of the whole thing - but they for sure knew enough that should have caused them pause. I do not believe for one minute that theses coaches and this lawyer are innocent in this matter. Now I know why these people have been silent and the lawyer has never responded to my email, they all got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

The accountant that was supposedly overseeing this whole mess needs to be investigated for securities fraud. I suspect someone was cooking the books someplace, and this guy should have at least caught it- unless he was involved in the fraud as well.

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  #161 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I would also speculate that once he saw FIO highlighted this story in our newsletter, he knew he was done for.
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What newsletter? How do you access this?

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  #162 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I would also speculate that once he saw FIO highlighted this story in our newsletter, he knew he was done for. At this point, other vendors would change their business name and start again. Hopefully not the case here, meaning hopefully he is caught by the authorities.


jeliner View Post
What newsletter? How do you access this?

It's not exactly a "newsletter" in the usual sense. Mike refers to a mass email that he sent out to the membership, which included an image of the lawyer's letter and a link to the thread, with this note:

-----------------

Editors note: This vendor (Day Trading Coach) has now threatened legal action against a futures io member. You can find the full PDF document attached in the thread, along with the latest information.

Our community will always be a safe haven for traders to openly share and discuss their experiences, so long as they follow our site policies. Sharing your experience or stating your opinions is not defamation, and I am tired of vendors who use legal tactics to try and silence or remove negative information about them.
-- Big Mike

------------------

It went out November 17. Check your email, you should have received it. It was titled "NOTICE OF INTENT TO SUE (vendor discussion)."

It had to have made an impact.

Bob.

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jeliner View Post
I burned it all to CD and mailed it to the SEC and two friends I trust...

It's futures not securities so should probably be the CFTC not the SEC. It also appears to be outright fraud rather than violation of securities laws so maybe even the Police or FBI and not the CFTC.

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Day Trading Coach - Update

All,

Yesterday afternoon I sent a package out to various bodies/authorities regarding alleged fraud of Day Trading Coach, Coach Jovan (A.K.A Fernando Honorate Fagundes) and potentially others.

We have to remember that everybody mentioned in this thread, by name or alleged associated position within Day Trading Coach are innocent until proven otherwise. I am assuming that the necessary bodies will continue the investigation from hereon in and determine that accordingly.

Other than that, I will not make any further additions to this thread unless they are not related to this case.

EDIT: It appears that either the Day Trading Coach website is down or they have banned my IP address. Not that there was really much on the website anyway, other than some of the videos which I used - it really held little value.

Regardless, it appears I have been stopped from looking at it anyway. If it is just me, this is very coincidental because to do that I assume they just blocked IPs originating from Montreal. If they did and everybody else can see it, it certainly appears somebody is talking to somebody else - and my package only went out yesterday afternoon....

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  #165 (permalink)
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Day Trading Coach - Update


EDIT: It appears that either the Day Trading Coach website is down or they have banned my IP address. Not that there was really much on the website anyway, other than some of the videos which I used - it really held little value.

Regardless, it appears I have been stopped from looking at it anyway. If it is just me, this is very coincidental because to do that I assume they just blocked IPs originating from Montreal. If they did and everybody else can see it, it certainly appears somebody is talking to somebody else - and my package only went out yesterday afternoon....

Works for me. Well maybe now they know I am not you, because my area of the world is still functional, except of course for my indicators which Jovan turned off a year ago

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They're still obliged to prove without a doubt that JonnyBoy is you. There's a privacy policy in place on this forum and others. Big Mike can't just release your real name or anyone else's.

If this ever went to court, which I doubt, you could just represent yourself and demand hard evidence that JonnyBoy is actually you. If you're not JonnyBoy, they won't produce that evidence. From a legal website:

Defamation laws protect the reputations of individuals and other entities (such as businesses) from untrue and damaging statements. At the same time, the courts must protect freedom of speech for United States citizens. Libelous statements refer to words that can be seen (typically written and published), while slander occurs when a defamatory statement is spoken or otherwise audible (such as a radio broadcast). These cases often involve public figures or public officials and false statements made about them, but everyone's first amendment rights to free speech must still be protected.

To prove either type of a defamation lawsuit, plaintiffs must prove the following elements:

The defendant made a false and defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff;
The defendant made the defamatory statement to a third party knowing it was false (or they should have known it was false); and
The publisher acted at least negligently in publishing the communication.
Note: In some cases, the plaintiff must prove special damages.

The lawyer's tactic is to shut you up. You're not obliged top shut up about anything unless you're intentionally attempting defamation of character. You are entitled to your opinion about their service. If it's a lousy service, you're entitled to say so.

But if you're not JonnyBoy, you have nothing to worry about. Either they prove it or they don't. Case dismissed.

Nice post; but I just wanted to chime in--even though this situation is wrapping up--for those that may come across this thread in the future.

I'm no lawyer, and the following are my general opinions. Court rules may vary by State.

If I were sued by mistake, I would first move to dismiss. Filing a responsive pleading first could be a big error.

The motion would included the logical stuff (from the website) and my sworn affidavit with the necessary assertions.

I would also try to capitalize on anti SLAPP laws, frivolous law suit sanctions, and court costs/attorney fees.

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userque View Post
Nice post; but I just wanted to chime in--even though this situation is wrapping up--for those that may come across this thread in the future.

I'm no lawyer, and the following are my general opinions. Court rules may vary by State.

If I were sued by mistake, I would first move to dismiss. Filing a responsive pleading first could be a big error.

The motion would included the logical stuff (from the website) and my sworn affidavit with the necessary assertions.

I would also try to capitalize on anti SLAPP laws, frivolous law suit sanctions, and court costs/attorney fees.

Humm here is an interesting thought. The business, plaintiff, law firm, and lawyer are all from Canada - I am from the US. If I were to be sued by from a foreign government, would have I have to appear in court there or where I live. By which laws of which jurisdiction would I be subjected to, the United States or Canada?

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  #168 (permalink)
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Humm here is an interesting thought. The business, plaintiff, law firm, and lawyer are all from Canada - I am from the US. If I were to be sued by from a foreign government, would have I have to appear in court there or where I live. By which laws of which jurisdiction would I be subjected to, the United States or Canada?

Yes. Interesting.

Did a quick search.

In my opinions, if I were were sued by 'that' firm for libel: I could either remove the case to a Federal Court and deal with it as I described previously; or ignore it, and any adverse judgment by a Canadian tribunal as being unenforceable in the U.S.

I believe this is so since, imo, U.S. libel laws are more beneficial to the defendant than they are in Canada--thereby invoking the provisions of the SPEECH Act of 2010.

https://kellywarnerlaw.com/united-states-defamation-law-faq

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEECH_Act

Dealing with Foreign Legal Threats | Digital Media Law Project

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Humm here is an interesting thought. The business, plaintiff, law firm, and lawyer are all from Canada - I am from the US. If I were to be sued by from a foreign government, would have I have to appear in court there or where I live. By which laws of which jurisdiction would I be subjected to, the United States or Canada?

I will provide another scenario: I was driving thru US from Canada in a car with a friend. He got pulled over for speeding and got a ticket, which said to appear in their local court with a future date.

Will you really think he will drive back to US just to get himself in trouble by going into their court? No. But if he does get pulled over again in that same state in future, he will for sure be in trouble for not appearing in the first court date.

In your (this thread) situation, if the crime is too big, the local government might request a foreign government to extradite a criminal to proceed with their local charges.

I am pretty sure this will not happen to my friend's speeding ticket charge because it's not that big. Other problems / allegations described in this thread are far bigger than that.

P.S. I know my topic is not relevant to this thread and the topic, but I just wanted to say about the car pulled over situation because it's a smaller version of 'trouble created by outsiders in other country' thing.

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I will provide another scenario: I was driving thru US from Canada in a car with a friend. He got pulled over for speeding and got a ticket, which said to appear in their local court with a future date.

Will you really think he will drive back to US just to get himself in trouble by going into their court? No. But if he does get pulled over again in that same state in future, he will for sure be in trouble for not appearing in the first court date.

In your (this thread) situation, if the crime is too big, the local government might request a foreign government to extradite a criminal to proceed with their local charges.

I am pretty sure this will not happen to my friend's speeding ticket charge because it's not that big. Other problems / allegations described in this thread are far bigger than that.

P.S. I know my topic is not relevant to this thread and the topic, but I just wanted to say about the car pulled over situation because it's a smaller version of 'trouble created by outsiders in other country' thing.

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Good points.

(I was too lazy to get into the letting it go to a default judgment, and then wanting to visit that foreign country in the future thing, so I left a link that spoke to the dangers of ignoring a foreign action.)

I'm sure you know the following, but I do want to piggy-back on your example and note that defamation appears to be in a category by itself, due to the chilling effect it can have on free speech. And,

an offense 'committed' in a foreign country is likely much different than a foreign allegation 'committed' while you are in your own country.

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Anyone know how much DTC is charging these days for the privilege? According to their website they have a promotion - you can save $2000.00. I am like WOW! $2000.00 off!! makes me wonder the the actual price tag is.

When I first met jovan and join his marry band in Jan 2019, he told me and my group of members "we were the first batch" This was back when it was called Family Dynasty (something like that). Back then he kept saying that we are lucky we got on the ground floor because the cost of these supper exclusive, nothing like it out there, indicators were going to cost 15k one day.

So far we learned that the eagle and hawk are based off of some linear regression (already in ninja trader) that is smoothed - with probably a moving average, with the space between color coded based on which side the lr was with the moving average.... Well, I noticed something with the traveler and the smart money indicator (as jovan calls it) that does not do what Jovan claims it does. Jovan claims that the smart money indictor identifies were the big players are in the markets.

Because of this tread, I have started to take a closer look at order flow and have concluded that Jovan's claims on what the smart money indictor is doing is incorrect. Yesterday, I happened to notice that the dots of the traveler change color with at the same time as the dots of the smart money indicator - meaning its the same calculation that determines the color change. This makes me to believe that this indicator (traveler) is some kind of two-part lagging indicator (moving averages, linear regression ect), except with the second line removed and represented by color changes of the plot. I think they tried to hide this by using different colors for the traveler dots verses the "Smart money dots" I suspect the Smart money histogram has got to be the result of the distance between these two plots with a different coloring algorithm.

I am not saying any of this is a bad thing - nor am I going to expound on its usefulness in making a trading decision. What I am saying, is that this indicator is not volume based - nor does it have the ability to filter volume to identify who the large players are vs retail traders. This means, Jovan is misrepresenting his software - making claims that it is doing something that it isn't. If I would not be studying order flow as I am now - I wouldn't have noticed this.

I have also elicited input from NijaTrader on weather a "Smart Money" indicator like this is possible. As of the writing of this message input is still pending from NinjaTrader. You can find there atthis link-:> NinjaTrader Forum

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jeliner View Post
Anyone know how much DTC is charging these days for the privilege? According to their website they have a promotion - you can save $2000.00. I am like WOW! $2000.00 off!! makes me wonder the the actual price tag is.

When I first met jovan and join his marry band in Jan 2019, he told me and my group of members "we were the first batch" This was back when it was called Family Dynasty (something like that). Back then he kept saying that we are lucky we got on the ground floor because the cost of these supper exclusive, nothing like it out there, indicators were going to cost 15k one day.

So far we learned that the eagle and hawk are based off of some linear regression (already in ninja trader) that is smoothed - with probably a moving average, with the space between color coded based on which side the lr was with the moving average.... Well, I noticed something with the traveler and the smart money indicator (as jovan calls it) that does not do what Jovan claims it does. Jovan claims that the smart money indictor identifies were the big players are in the markets.

Because of this tread, I have started to take a closer look at order flow and have concluded that Jovan's claims on what the smart money indictor is doing is incorrect. Yesterday, I happened to notice that the dots of the traveler change color with at the same time as the dots of the smart money indicator - meaning its the same calculation that determines the color change. This makes me to believe that this indicator (traveler) is some kind of two-part lagging indicator (moving averages, linear regression ect), except with the second line removed and represented by color changes of the plot. I think they tried to hide this by using different colors for the traveler dots verses the "Smart money dots" I suspect the Smart money histogram has got to be the result of the distance between these two plots with a different coloring algorithm.

I am not saying any of this is a bad thing - nor am I going to expound on its usefulness in making a trading decision. What I am saying, is that this indicator is not volume based - nor does it have the ability to filter volume to identify who the large players are vs retail traders. This means, Jovan is misrepresenting his software - making claims that it is doing something that it isn't. If I would not be studying order flow as I am now - I wouldn't have noticed this.

I have also elicited input from NijaTrader on weather a "Smart Money" indicator like this is possible. As of the writing of this message input is still pending from NinjaTrader. You can find there atthis link-:> NinjaTrader Forum

The traveller is (or similar to) the hilo-activator U1.

https://www.lizardindicators.com/indicator-library-2/trailing-stop-loss/hilo-activator-u1/

The smart money histogram is (or similar to) RSqueeze or BB Squeeze.



Jovan did in fact refer to the latter indicator as the "Smart Money" or "Power Pro" indicator. I believe he tried to state the indicator showed the flow of money from "people that know the market". Whatever he meant by that I don't know. It is just a lagging indicator similar to a MACD but what use it has really is beyond me. It just sounds really fancy when you say ''smart money'', especially to the uninitiated.

EDIT: And to answer your first question, I know the cost got up to about $12,500. That was from earlier this year, so who knows towards the end it could have been a lot more.

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Anyone know how much DTC is charging these days for the privilege? According to their website they have a promotion - you can save $2000.00. I am like WOW! $2000.00 off!! makes me wonder the the actual price tag is.

]


Bronze - CAD 11850 for 6months
Sliver - CAD 13850 for 8 months
Gold - CAD 14860 for 10 months
Platinum CAD 16450 for 12 months

Apparently, they are moving to subscription model from 2021.




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Bronze - CAD 11850 for 6months
Sliver - CAD 13850 for 8 months
Gold - CAD 14860 for 10 months
Platinum CAD 16450 for 12 months

Apparently, they are moving to subscription model from 2021.




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Holy wow! 16k a year for a pair of moving averages and a linear regression line... so, if they dont fork over the cash the next year ... "poof" by by indicators ... I mean buy buy indicators.

Dont think for one single minute that they wont turn off the indicators - because they will. They have done it to me, just for making posts.

That just makes the scam even worse.

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I have also elicited input from NijaTrader on weather a "Smart Money" indicator like this is possible. As of the writing of this message input is still pending from NinjaTrader. You can find there at this link-:> NinjaTrader Forum

So, Ninjatrader as confirmed (see link above) that it is presently not possible to identify the individuals responsible for moving price on a chart. Meaning, Jovan is selling an indicator saying that it does something that its not.

Buyer be ware

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Bronze - CAD 11850 for 6months
Sliver - CAD 13850 for 8 months
Gold - CAD 14860 for 10 months
Platinum CAD 16450 for 12 months

Apparently, they are moving to subscription model from 2021.




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You're better off putting that hard earned money for a long term investment in S&P or something, which can actually (somewhat) guarantee you a safe return.

Imo, the ONLY holy grail is a time machine - hands down. But has anyone invented yet?

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Bronze - CAD 11850 for 6months
Sliver - CAD 13850 for 8 months
Gold - CAD 14860 for 10 months
Platinum CAD 16450 for 12 months

Apparently, they are moving to subscription model from 2021.

There is a lot of value in a thread like this, entirely apart from unmasking a dishonest vendor: an indicator or a system or a technique may work or it may not, but there will never be a case when it is worth the kind of money that unscrupulous vendors can get unwary traders to pay for them.

People have actually made money with nothing more than a simple, dumb moving average, and a little knowledge and practical experience with price movement. plus good loss control. No one will offer to sell you that, because (1) it's too simple to make anyone salivate, and (2) you can't sell experience to someone. They have to get it themselves.

Not that I recommend moving averages or any other particular thing. I imagine that many, perhaps most, possibly all of the Jovan indicators would work well in the right hands. After all, it has turned out in this thread that most/all are some variation of something basic and already widely available. I've seen a lot of things work fine that seemed very ordinary and close to useless, when in the hands of someone who understood their markets. I have also seen a lot of excellent things fail -- including order flow, or VWAP, or market/volume profile, or price action, or anything else, squiggly indicators included -- in the hands of traders who don't.

I have read some comments here where someone really wants to know how to duplicate the Jovan indicators, and many others that dismiss them as useless. I think both points of view are missing something. There is no set of indicators and no technique or method that is going to make you rich, nor even mildly successful, not even not a loser.... by themselves. Also -- who knows? -- someone may find some real value in one of those things with colors on them. But the fancy colors and squiggles are not going to do it... by themselves.

The moral is never spend much money on anything that is supposed to lead you to trading success. It won't.

Try things out, use things that work, get a feel and an understanding of markets, and don't ever pay much. Honest vendors don't generally ask for much.

Of course, you'll have to decide what "much" is. Just be aware that it's never the method or tool, by itself, that makes the difference, and be guided accordingly.

Bob.

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Day Trading Coach - Update

I have been chatting with Crime Stoppers today and after reviewing several pieces of documentation over the last couple of days they are urging people who believe they have been a possible victim of fraud from Day Trading Coach to contact their local law enforcement. I am assuming this in regards to any victims who potentially got caught up in the Coach Jovan promissory notes alleged fraud.

It really is imperative if you believe you have been a victim of fraud from Day Trading Coach to speak up and report. I have the name of the ASC investigator that I can also pass on if required to assist in the building of any case should they gather enough evidence to do so. The ASC do not give updates on ongoing investigations but in cases like these, every person that comes forward potentially helps them build up a case.



Anyway, here is who we are talking about - Coach Jovan is allegedly Fernando Honorate Fagundes. Although this is an archived blog, some of it was preserved from a point in time (I think this was around 2012). Have a look at some of the comments under "'Your 2 cents'' and ''List of Donations", they are quite interesting and eerily similar to what happened this time around with the alleged fraud.

And although there is nothing behind "The Ranch" tab he allegedly repeated the same setup this time around in Millarville, AB.

I have so much information and stories that have been sent to me from former students and ''workers'' at ''The Ranch'' it is really overwhelming. I have not released or discussed any of these and will not do so without prior permission.

A former student even gave me the contact list of all known members of DTC up until April, apparently Coach Jovan accidently emailed at one point without a BCC. This has also been passed on to investigators as it may assist with the investigation.

Some local news outlets in Calgary are also interested in running the story, but we'll see where that goes. More conversations to be had I think.



https://web.archive.org/web/20140601151856/shalomhenry.blogspot.com/

This post and all information provided herein was prepared or accomplished in my personal capacity. The opinions expressed or statements and allegations made should be considered my opinion subject to further investigation by the correct authorities.

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Day Trading Coach - Update

So, I have remained radio silent on this topic (and for that matter on FIO) as the investigation unfolded.

It appears that daytrading.coach and familyfirstdynasty.com have been removed by GoDaddy - which is a great start.

There is so much more I can write but for now I have included a copy of the complaint against Day Trading Coach (and their lawyer in reference to the incorrect Cease and Desist that was meant for me, but went to another FIO user instead).

Some of the information referenced in the complaint I have not included, but you'll certainly get the core information. I couldn't upload the sound file project I did on Jovan's voice (FIO doesn't accept sound files) where he disguised his real voice on all of his videos to try and throw people off of the scent...I mean if that wasn't a red flag to begin with...but that was also included for analysis as part of the investigation.

TrustPilot has also started seeing negative reviews. IMO TrustPilot shouldn't be trusted at all (you can allegedly pay to remove negative reviews for example) but I am glad some people have commented negatively. Allegedly, Jovan would bully students into posting positive reviews on TrustPilot and berate them if they didn't.

https://ca.trustpilot.com/review/daytrading.coach

If anybody else has additional information, don't hesitate to reach out.

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Register to download File Type: pdf Day Trading Coach Alleged Fraud_Mr. Ryan Franzen Complaint.pdf (1.21 MB, 30 views)
Register to download File Type: zip Jovan Voice Changer.zip (632.9 KB, 7 views)
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Day Trading Coach - Update

... I couldn't upload the sound file project I did on Jovan's voice (FIO doesn't accept sound files) where he disguised his real voice on all of his videos to try and throw people off of the scent...I mean if that wasn't a red flag to begin with...but that was also included for analysis as part of the investigation. ...

FYI, you can google how to make a youtube video from an audio file. Then post that video (link) here.

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FYI, you can google how to make a youtube video from an audio file. Then post that video (link) here.

Yep, I just zipped up the .mp3 file and added it to the original post. It isn't all that exciting actually but I suppose gives some additional context.

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WARNING - Day Trading Coach has risen from the ashes

This very likely could be a rinse and repeat of the same scam as before on https://www.daytrading.coach and Welcome familyfirstdynasty.com - BlueHost.com

They are now being hosted by BlueHost with a new address https://www.golden-falcon-trading-academy.com. GoDaddy completely banned from hosting them at all.



Prior to getting removed from GoDaddy, I discovered the daytrading.coach website essentially ripped off https://www.warriortrading.com/ with their content. Warrior Trading were notified and they got daytrading.coach to remove the copied material.

So, not only was Day Trading Coach a scam, they also just ripped another trading website to make themselves look more professional.

@bobwest - please rename this thread title to read Daytrading.Coach and Golden-Falcon-Trading-Academy.com Review please.

EDIT: @bobwest I guess I should say that Google has indexed these pages quite nicely, so how do we make sure we don't muck that up if we change the thread title?

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There is another outlet that is "Rising out of the ashes" as their website says.

Here is the link -https://phoenixtraders.ca/the-phoenix-system

They are either selling golden falcon trading pro indicators or similar indicators. Check out their YouTube video -

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There is another outlet that is "Rising out of the ashes" as their website says.

Here is the link -https://phoenixtraders.ca/the-phoenix-system

They are either selling golden falcon trading pro indicators or similar indicators. Check out their YouTube video -

The indicators look the same and/or they have leveraged from my work to deconstruct them. I just don't know right now.

The YouTube video mentions Coach Steve. Not sure who the hell that is. I have no idea what the hell this is all about.

@RJay - are you still involved with this? It doesn't look like it, but thought I would check.

EDIT: I edited this post once I watched the YouTube video. This doesn't appear to be Jovan, but certainly raises eyebrows. And confirmed. Coach Steve was ex Day Trading Coach.

EDIT EDIT: More information coming to light. This is NOT JOVAN. Some former DTC students are looking to utilise the knowledge they've acquired.

The indicators used are apparently in the public domain and they are having a webinar tonight. There was never anything ''special'' about the DTC indicator package as they were not difficult to rebuild and I expect this vendor will state the same and hopefully for free!

https://phoenixtraders.ca/sessions-schedule

So, to clarify and be fair to this new vendor, Phoenix Traders are not Jovan or his son Jacob. As far as I can tell they are not affiliated with DTC other than been involved as students/coaches in the past.

However, the above post mentioning https://www.golden-falcon-trading-academy.com/ IS Jovan or his son Jacob. I.E. Open shop, scam people, get busted, shut up shop, open new shop.....

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To me it seems like one of Jovan's coaches (Steve) set out on his own to offer training and is providing support for DTC members who purchased the DTC software. Looks like he is trying to distance himself from the DTC mess. Then there is ( https://www.golden-falcon-trading-academy.com/.) which maybe the adopted son? Both sites seem to have access to the DTC indicators and are packaging them differently. Maybe both sites are resellers for the indicators that RJ developed? It appears that RJ is the owner of them.

In the mean time, I have heard nothing from the lawyer or law firm that threatened to sue me over the whole fiasco. Not even so much as an apology either.

The most important thing I have learned from the whole mess is to never purchase anything that someone can turn off remotely. You never truly have lifetime access if someone can flip a Boolean switch to turn it all off down the road.

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@RJay has now made the indicators that DTC leased from him public and available for purchase for $1,600.

https://www.innovative-trading-solutions-online.com/new/ninjatrader-the-golden-falcon-trading-pro-by-rjay/

Unfortunately it appears he is still linked with Coach Jacob (from Day Trading Coach) so make of that what you will and do your due diligence as usual.


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jeliner View Post
The most important thing I have learned from the whole mess is to never purchase anything that someone can turn off remotely. You never truly have lifetime access if someone can flip a Boolean switch to turn it all off down the road.

Another lesson might be not to put your faith in sellers of expensive systems, whether they can be turned off or not.

At most, any indicator package is -- and by its nature can be -- only slightly different from other work that is widely available. Why? Because this is ground that has been worked over for decades by very good people, who have squeezed just about everything out of things that track trends or things that oscillate, or whatever they do, and there simply are not going to be any major breakthroughs. The market does what it does, the tools track it, and that's basically it. If someone has a new tool that also tracks it, well, that tool cannot show you anything other than what the market is doing.... if it does, then it's inaccurate.

So, can a new oscillator at the bottom of the chart oscillate a whole lot differently from all the others? Possibly a little, but very much? No. Or any better? No.

Ditto for a line that moves along with price on the upper panel and shows you the trend. Other than being shorter or longer term., or maybe smoother or maybe changing colors or something, can it be a whole lot better than the others? No.

How about something that shows secret new levels that the market is going to for-sure turn at? Will it be a whole lot better than the others? You can see the pattern here.

I would be happy to pay a few bucks for someone's new idea -- because I can afford it and because I like new things (but it would have to be cheap.) Maybe it would even work better than something else, who knows? But the time when I paid thousands of dollars for guaranteed-to-make-you-money systems is way in the past for me. Like probably everyone, I shelled the money out at the time, and it did me no good either, just like it never did for anyone else. Not one of these is worth the money. How can they stay in business then? Because hope springs eternal.

It's a valuable learning experience.

Bob.

------------------

Edit: this is not to say that you cannot make money in the markets -- just that the pre-packaged, simple solutions are not going to do it for you. No matter how nice the charts look. Nothing will do the job like understanding the markets and understanding yourself as you respond to the markets, and that's work you have to do yourself.

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  #188 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
The indicators look the same and/or they have leveraged from my work to deconstruct them. I just don't know right now.

The YouTube video mentions Coach Steve. Not sure who the hell that is. I have no idea what the hell this is all about.

@RJay - are you still involved with this? It doesn't look like it, but thought I would check.

EDIT: I edited this post once I watched the YouTube video. This doesn't appear to be Jovan, but certainly raises eyebrows. And confirmed. Coach Steve was ex Day Trading Coach.

EDIT EDIT: More information coming to light. This is NOT JOVAN. Some former DTC students are looking to utilise the knowledge they've acquired.

The indicators used are apparently in the public domain and they are having a webinar tonight. There was never anything ''special'' about the DTC indicator package as they were not difficult to rebuild and I expect this vendor will state the same and hopefully for free!

https://phoenixtraders.ca/sessions-schedule

So, to clarify and be fair to this new vendor, Phoenix Traders are not Jovan or his son Jacob. As far as I can tell they are not affiliated with DTC other than been involved as students/coaches in the past.

However, the above post mentioning https://www.golden-falcon-trading-academy.com/ IS Jovan or his son Jacob. I.E. Open shop, scam people, get busted, shut up shop, open new shop.....

Not too detract from this thread the FTC (and maybe SEC?) seems to have quite a list of actions going on ....

https://www.ftc.gov/es/system/files/attachments/press-releases/scammers-leverage-pandemic-fears-ftc-law-enforcement-partners-crack-down-deceptive-income-schemes/operation_income_illusion_-_federal_state_and_local_actions_2020.pdf

I am not sure what Canada has in this regard. Certainly there can't be zero level of criminal activity. So what does Canada do about these situations? We used to have the OSC in Ontario. That did not help me when i lost $16k in a halted stock. The VSE used to have pump and dumps like meals for the homeless. The OSC did not have jurisdiction over that either.

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  #189 (permalink)
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Precisely. And I know that Day Trading Coach certainly capitalized on 'out of work' folk who thought that trading was a cash machine.

The Alberta Securities Commission is responsible for administering Alberta securities laws, including investigating, prosecuting and sanctioning breaches.* ASC staff review concerns to determine if they relate to issues within their jurisdiction, and whether they point to possible breaches of Alberta securities laws.* If they do, they may conduct further investigation, discuss the issue with the business or individual(s) involved, and if appropriate apply to have administrative or other sanctions ordered against wrongdoers.* If the review indicates that the matter is not one that the ASC can address, they may refer the issue to another organization.

The big problem is when an outfit gets busted they just shut up shop and move to a different location and different website.

For example, Bluehost have been given all the evidence regarding the Day Trading Coach scam but have refused to do anything about it.

This is terrible for the consumer, but it appears that Bluehost favour the scammer more than the individual and that is a problem for all of the professional bodies investigating, because they can't keep track.

Seriously though, shame on Bluehost.

The Day Trading Coach scam was literally one of thousands. People need to be more aware of where their money goes.

And when vendors (on FIO) continue to have a relationship with the same outfit that scammed nearly a million bucks from people, you just have to ask yourself why.

Is it money? Greed? Nieveity? Either way, threads like this get indexed and you can only hope desperate people don't fall foul of all the scams happening to innocent people right now who find themselves out of work and desperate.

Due diligence are two words that should be adhered to before you put money into anything, and especially something trading related.
mmaker View Post
Not too detract from this thread the FTC (and maybe SEC?) seems to have quite a list of actions going on ....

https://www.ftc.gov/es/system/files/attachments/press-releases/scammers-leverage-pandemic-fears-ftc-law-enforcement-partners-crack-down-deceptive-income-schemes/operation_income_illusion_-_federal_state_and_local_actions_2020.pdf

I am not sure what Canada has in this regard. Certainly there can't be zero level of criminal activity. So what does Canada do about these situations? We used to have the OSC in Ontario. That did not help me when i lost $16k in a halted stock. The VSE used to have pump and dumps like meals for the homeless. The OSC did not have jurisdiction over that either.

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  #190 (permalink)
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JonnyBoy View Post
Precisely. And I know that Day Trading Coach certainly capitalized on 'out of work' folk who thought that trading was a cash machine.


For example, Bluehost have been given all the evidence regarding the Day Trading Coach scam but have refused to do anything about it.

This is terrible for the consumer, but it appears that Bluehost favour the scammer more than the individual and that is a problem for all of the professional bodies investigating, because they can't keep track.

Seriously though, shame on Bluehost.


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Personally, I think its a dangerous thing when people use their position to censor content, even if inaccurate. Censorship leads to a particular persons control of what people are allowed to think or know about something.

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  #191 (permalink)
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mmaker View Post
Not too detract from this thread the FTC (and maybe SEC?) seems to have quite a list of actions going on ....

https://www.ftc.gov/es/system/files/attachments/press-releases/scammers-leverage-pandemic-fears-ftc-law-enforcement-partners-crack-down-deceptive-income-schemes/operation_income_illusion_-_federal_state_and_local_actions_2020.pdf

I am not sure what Canada has in this regard. Certainly there can't be zero level of criminal activity. So what does Canada do about these situations? We used to have the OSC in Ontario. That did not help me when i lost $16k in a halted stock. The VSE used to have pump and dumps like meals for the homeless. The OSC did not have jurisdiction over that either.

When I received the lawsuit threat, I put together an information packet for the SEC and FTC and mailed it concerning DTC. It was my hopes I could use those organizations to provide some legal support incase DTC ever really sued me. Interestingly enough, I have heard from no one on the matter - from both sides. I don't see JOVAN, DTC, or the coaches in this list either. Maybe the FTC/SEC was disinterested?

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  #192 (permalink)
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It would likely be outside of the SEC / FTC jurisdiction. The Alberta Securities Commission is the correct body to submit that information to.

Once an investigation is started they do not give updates.

With respect to Ryan Franzen the McLeod Law Calgary lawyer that sent you the Cease and Desist under the wrong circumstances. Well, a complaint with the Law Society of Alberta was filed by both of us. I doubt you/we will hear anything. Lawyers investigating lawyers is akin to 'who guards the guards'. I fully suspect that Ryan Franzen or McLeod Law don't give a flying monkeys about any of this.

They probably just dismissed it all as another day at the office. We shall see but don't hold your breath.

The best thing you can do is find a pro-bono lawyer to sue McLeod Law but I guess the tarnished reputation of Ryan Franzen and McLeod Law is enough.

Heck, there is video evidence of Ryan and his family at The Ranch. It's not like he was 'only' the lawyer. He was involved in some additional capacity with Day Trading Coach. I just hope they get to the bottom of what exactly that was.

The RCMP I know are investigating as are Canada Immigration.

It is frustrating, but at least that particular Day Trading Coach scam was quashed.

jeliner View Post
When I received the lawsuit threat, I put together an information packet for the SEC and FTC and mailed it concerning DTC. It was my hopes I could use those organizations to provide some legal support incase DTC ever really sued me. Interestingly enough, I have heard from no one on the matter - from both sides. I don't see JOVAN, DTC, or the coaches in this list either. Maybe the FTC/SEC was disinterested?

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