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Kim Mangalindan, Facebook Freedom Challenge Group (legal question - need help)
I wouldn’t worry if I was you. He isn’t gonna do shit! He’s just trying to scare you into thinking he has all the power. Trust me, it’ll cost him a lot more than whatever money you spent to pay for a lawyer. Also, whatever contract he had you sign is definitely not enforceable. He isn’t the federal government, he cannot and will never be able to garnish your wages.
My thoughts, and what I would do... I would cease all communications with that scammer and go on living my life.
Trust me, I have been through several legal battles in my life and the cost of a lawyer + Mediation + trial is way more than he can ever hope to recover from you. Don’t sweat it. That asshole is just trying to intimidate you into paying.
Also, trade for yourself, don’t ever buy indicators or courses from anyone. They’re all scams!
A few have mentioned that it would cost a scammer too much to justify suing. I don't believe this is necessarily the case.
A business person, or a scammer, (or even an individual) could easily have a firm on retainer.
It'd be no trouble to fill in the template suit draft with the latest victim's information/documents, and file it--probably via the internet--with a court.
The intent would be to get the victim to believe that the threats are real; that they'll now have to hire counsel to defend, or face default judgment (or proceed pro se); and to further nudge the victim towards a settlement favorable to the scammer.
So, it wouldn't cost much to initiate a suit, in light of the thousands at stake. BUT, I doubt the scammer would prosecute the case when faced with opposing counsel, or a capable and unafraid pro se defendant.
***Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and this is NOT legal advice.
1) Look at his contract and TOS closely to see if he violated any of his own terms.
2) Check his web site and see if he has the proper CFTC disclaimers
3) If you have proof of actual fraud, contact your Credit Card company and submit the evidence to them. Ask them to reverse the charges
for the first 3 months.
4) Document all instances of him bullying and/or threatening you. Show that to your CC company as well.
5) Submit a complaint to the CFTC.
6) In the highly unlikely event that it does goes to court, the more evidence you have of his fraud/harassment/bullying/violations of his TOS the better it will
be for you.
7) Ask a licensed attorney for his/her professional opinion (Use free internet legal services)
I'm not sure Kim is even in the US or understands the American legal system. Cases are filed in the state of the disputed party. Kim would need to have a Californian lawyer to start legal work against OP.
All the retainers I had to pay were at least 5K in California and in other countries depending on the complexity of the case. Good Californian lawyers are expensive even by the hour. Kim could hire a cheap, lame California lawyer, and in that case he'll get what he deserves.
If Kim's business is incorporated in Utah (or whatever), he would still need to have a California lawyer to send the OP even just a letter.
I looked at some of Kim's websites which do not mention where the state of his businesses are incorporated. Probably just a bunch of fake websites. This is not a very sophisticated Ponzi scheme.
There's a lot of fake copyrighting that's made to look like official legal letters, which is a marketing tactic to scare people. Occasionally you see those in junk mail but they're not real. If you sue someone in NY and you live in CA, the lawyer you hire has to be licensed to practice in NY.
Anyway, it seems the OP has taken the advice to heart and has taken appropriate action. He has also elaborated more on the details of what happened and is looking to move on and continue to improve his trading. I'm happy to see this development in addition to all the exceptional support and advice he received.
This went from interesting to concerning to 'omg how can I get that half hour of my life back' - then onto entertaining, as I attempt to salvage something from this all.
This is next-level charlatanism going on here... and I've come across some pretty deeply deceitful charlatans in my life.
Wow.
I suggest following my own usual rules;
- always seek and check references
- always check and double check provenance; google, reverse image search (HT to Kevin on that one, it's amazing what that turns up), linkedin, etc.
- if it's too good to be true, it isn't true
- if it smells even slightly fishy, it is probably fishy
- always have an 'out' ; check the guarantee, confirm the cancellation terms, read the contract, never commit to anything that's not un-do-able.
Most developed countries have tight laws on consumer protection, so check your own country's (or state's in the US). They apply to the customer, not the vendor, everywhere I've lived, so although for example if you're in Europe and someone scams you from, say, Dubai, you won't realistically be able to go after them in their home jurisdiction, you are protected by Europe's consumer protection laws. That's generally how they work, but like I said, double check your own local consumer protection rules.
Many developed countries also have volunteer legal organisations, sometimes even at a town level too, that are great help. I've resorted to these in Britain and New Zealand before.
I suppose the answer depends on how you 'agreed' to his services, was there a formal contract? was this simply over an email? What did you sign exactly?
Were there any performance clauses on his part? Ie he had to make money or the contract was void?
I wouldn't do anything about it until you receive a letter from his counsel. I am in the construction business and people tell me all the time they are going to call their lawyer.
I'm sure only a fraction do call their lawyer. And obviously many of them are told by their own lawyer they don't have a good case, but that doesn't mean they cannot proceed... Just that it would cost xx,xxx or even six figures to do so...
And that's why it usually doesn't go anywhere.
I want to remind everyone that there is now a separate, named vendor thread, for anything specifically relating to it.
If the OP would agree to changing the title of this thread to include the vendor name, that would be even better and my extra thread could then be closed.
I am a California licensed attorney. Let me give you the usual boilerplate that the following does not create an attorney client relationship and it would be advised that you seek legal counsel if you want to be helped in your particular matter.
That said, I can say this. I wouldn't worry about his coming after you. I would know a thing or two about that: after all, my work focuses on the enforcement of court judgments -- and even those can be thwarted by the bankruptcy process.
I perused the responses including by those of Big Mike and all the rest of the members. I'm a lurker on FuturesIO, and those responses were basically pretty good. The fact of the matter is that if someone wants to destroy you financially, a savvy poker player wouldn't telegraph this fact to you. Remember the Art of War: when you are strong, appear weak; and when you are weak, appear strong.
He could sue. Go ahead. He'll pay an attorney (someone like me, but NOT me) to write a threatening demand letter. When you neglect to respond, he'll be left with the option of having to pay a process server to actually legally give you notice of a suit. And I'm guessing that he'll want to do this outside of small claims or else it REALLy won't be worth his time. So, that means it'll be a standard Superior Court suit. Either way, just the filing of the complaint here in SF will set him back $435 plus another $200 or so to hire a process server.
If you respond, then he'll have to pay the lawyer for time. In my experience, no court hearing is any cheaper than at least $500--often more. By my clock, he's in for about $1,100 plus additional attorney time--with no guarantee of victory in court.
My opinion? He's a bunch of hot gas. Fee shifting statutes in this state are breathlessly difficult to argue and move the court to grant. I should know: I'm licensed in this state.
What you could do is even threaten to counter-sue. If he's conducting business here in California, it is possible that consumer protection laws may be in play -- and applicable attorneys' fees statutes to boot.
Tell you what.....drop me a line. I'd be happy to give you a free consultation.
Either way, it's not worth his time to try and sue you. If he tries to lien on your property, you counter with a slander of title action. If he tries to garnish your wages.....? With what? An imaginary court order that has the power of thumbscrew? All the injunctive relief motions I've had granted needed just that....court motions and hearings.
Kick back and relax. I can't guarantee nothing will happen, but neither can I guarantee that you won't get into an accident when you take BART. Your risk profile seems reasonably low.
