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Kim Mangalindan, Facebook Freedom Challenge Group (legal question - need help)


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Kim Mangalindan, Facebook Freedom Challenge Group (legal question - need help)

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  #21 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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phantomtrader View Post
You need to reveal who the scammer is. That's one of the reasons that communities like Big Mike's exist - to help traders avoid scammers. You would be doing everyone a service by writing a review about the person and his business.

Also the person who said to call his bluff is right. Tell him to go ahead and sue you in small claims court. I seriously doubt that whatever contract you signed had a clause that said:
"Even if I scam you, you have to pay". It may, however, say no refunds but there may be a cancellation clause. Even if there's no cancellation clause, it should say something about your subscription.

You should post the contract and let people read it. I bet there are multiple ways to get this guy.

He may be threatening you that if you reveal his name, he'll sue you for defamation. But that's because he doesn't want his name posted on websites like this.

This guy would probably be very easy to get if we knew who he was. Don't be afraid.

A lot of people want to know who the vendor is, and I get that (i'd love to know too). But does that really help the OP with his situation? I don't see how. This vendor is threatening legal action, and if he is outed, I would guess he would be more likely to go after OP. And if OP does not have a strong case, OP might be digging a deeper hole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rooting out unscrupulous vendors (my last trading webinar I showed some of their tricks), but in this case I see outing the vendor as helping others avoid this guy, hurting the vendor himself, but not really helping OP with his legal problem.

I think advice needs to be centered on helping OP.

Please feel free to disagree. I can't see my advice in this post would be popular (and I understand why, but I am thinking only about the OP here).

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  #22 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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I've seen vendors do the right thing when facing public scrutiny and pressure. Not miracles, just the right thing.
kevinkdog View Post
A lot of people want to know who the vendor is, and I get that (i'd love to know too). But does that really help the OP with his situation? I don't see how. This vendor is threatening legal action, and if he is outed, I would guess he would be more likely to go after OP. And if OP does not have a strong case, OP might be digging a deeper hole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rooting out unscrupulous vendors (my last trading webinar I showed some of their tricks), but in this case I see outing the vendor as helping others avoid this guy, hurting the vendor himself, but not really helping OP with his legal problem.

I think advice needs to be centered on helping OP.

Please feel free to disagree. I can't see my advice in this post would be popular (and I understand why, but I am thinking only about the OP here).

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  #23 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
I've seen vendors do the right thing when facing public scrutiny and pressure. Not miracles, just the right thing.

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That would be an awesome outcome for everyone.

Flipside: I heard an educator actually sued every person who left a comment to a review on a review website - even comments that did not mention the educator. Totally frivolous. The vendor knew he would lose, but just wanted to silence, scare and intimidate people. And it worked.

Many vendors now also have clauses that prohibit customers from leaving bad or disparaging remarks anywhere. How that is legal, I do not know, but OP should check for that, too.

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  #24 (permalink)
userque
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kevinkdog View Post
...Many vendors now also have clauses that prohibit customers from leaving bad or disparaging remarks anywhere. How that is legal, I do not know,...

I guess it's legal if you agree to the 'contract.'

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  #25 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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@Kasitlyo, on the question of whether or not to publicly name the mentor, I could endorse either idea. Obviously, it's up to you whether you want to add this into the public discussion. For instance, suppose you named him here, and it turns out that he's already known for bad performance as a mentor. Maybe he's been sued. Maybe nothing will come of this, but it might. Try as many things as you can think of, and see where they go.

I think @artemiso has laid out the most complete list of possible options so far in terms of seeking legal representation/help. And while I agree with the comments that not all lawyers are necessarily any good, I think this is a situation where you do need to find some competent legal advice. "Competent" is the key word, and it's not necessarily easy to find one, but if all else fails, ask somebody. Word of mouth experience may be the way to at least get started.

My own feeling is that this is not that difficult a situation. It's extremely difficult for you emotionally and every other way, obviously, but what it comes down to is that the mentor guy is claiming breach of contract because he isn't being paid, which he isn't. You are claiming that the mentor's mentoring was no good, so you don't want to pay. That's the dispute. It is complicated by the questions of whether the mentor is bluffing, and of whether he/she will sue for the amount of money that's involved, and about what is your next step.

My view is that the next step is to spend a little money to consult a lawyer to just go over the situation and see what the legal avenues are. Some have suggested something closer to telling the mentor to take a hike. (Actually, more like telling the him to "f" himself, but I'm being polite.) One version of this would be to ask your lawyer send him a letter telling him don't accept his claim and saying why. Or you could do it without the lawyer, too. This might work if he's just blowing smoke or is just a bully, and it might not.

But you need to get into action and do something. Worrying will only take you so far. and it is not helping that much. The more you worry, the worse it all seems to you, and the more all-powerful and threatening the other guy seems. He's not all-powerful. There is always something you can do, even if it isn't the absolute best possible thing, or the thing you will end up doing. Decide on something you can do now, and start it.

Good luck.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #26 (permalink)
 Kasitlyo 
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bobwest View Post
@Kasitlyo, on the question of whether or not to publicly name the mentor, I could endorse either idea. Obviously, it's up to you whether you want to add this into the public discussion. For instance, suppose you named him here, and it turns out that he's already known for bad performance as a mentor. Maybe he's been sued. Maybe nothing will come of this, but it might. Try as many things as you can think of, and see where they go.

I think @artemiso has laid out the most complete list of possible options so far in terms of seeking legal representation/help. And while I agree with the comments that not all lawyers are necessarily any good, I think this is a situation where you do need to find some competent legal advice. "Competent" is the key word, and it's not necessarily easy to find one, but if all else fails, ask somebody. Word of mouth experience may be the way to at least get started.

My own feeling is that this is not that difficult a situation. It's extremely difficult for you emotionally and every other way, obviously, but what it comes down to is that the mentor guy is claiming breach of contract because he isn't being paid, which he isn't. You are claiming that the mentor's mentoring was no good, so you don't want to pay. That's the dispute. It is complicated by the questions of whether the mentor is bluffing, and of whether he/she will sue for the amount of money that's involved, and about what is your next step.

My view is that the next step is to spend a little money to consult a lawyer to just go over the situation and see what the legal avenues are. Some have suggested something closer to telling the mentor to take a hike. (Actually, more like telling the him to "f" himself, but I'm being polite.) One version of this would be to ask your lawyer send him a letter telling him don't accept his claim and saying why. Or you could do it without the lawyer, too. This might work if he's just blowing smoke or is just a bully, and it might not.

But you need to get into action and do something. Worrying will only take you so far. and it is not helping that much. The more you worry, the worse it all seems to you, and the more all-powerful and threatening the other guy seems. He's not all-powerful. There is always something you can do, even if it isn't the absolute best possible thing, or the thing you will end up doing. Decide on something you can do now, and start it.

Good luck.

Bob.

Okey, I decided to reveal this Guy, he called himself Master Kim Mangalindan at FB Freedom Challenge Group... I am asking everybody a review, his top student trading at Youtube channel (Westcoast Doc) and acting as his follower and advertise all the time that Master kim will give the one they call "Golden Nugget Tip" when and what time the ES min comes Up/Down etc... and if you find it a security fraud happens when a party uses fraud, misrepresentation or to give untrue statement in connection with the sale of a security, please help me make a review/comment at YT, to open the eyes of other Freedom Challenges member not to follow and save their money, that everythig is a fraud and BS to give this "Golden Nuggets GPS". Thanks for all your help.



https://www.mtradingacademy.com/start?fbclid=IwAR12phtw4d-jcjYxBShCbVeYSRQH-eTWnpKSzYSc8i3HaCA5t3NuDrCWwVA

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  #27 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Kasitlyo View Post
Okey, I decided to reveal this Guy, he called himself Master Kim Mangalindan at FB Freedom Challenge Group... I am asking everybody a review, his top student trading at Youtube channel (Westcoast Doc) and acting as his follower and advertise all the time that Master kim will give the one they call "Golden Nugget Tip" when and what time the ES min comes Up/Down etc... and if you find it a security fraud happens when a party uses fraud, misrepresentation or to give untrue statement in connection with the sale of a security, please help me make a review/comment at YT, to open the eyes of other Freedom Challenges member not to follow and save their money, that everythig is a fraud and BS to give this "Golden Nuggets GPS". Thanks for all your help.



https://www.mtradingacademy.com/start?fbclid=IwAR12phtw4d-jcjYxBShCbVeYSRQH-eTWnpKSzYSc8i3HaCA5t3NuDrCWwVA

Good. Now we'll see if there is any knowledge of this guy out in the community, and if revealing him will help and give you some options.

Please be aware that "securities fraud" is a very serious felony, and it has a very specific legal definition in connection with selling securities, which this guy almost certainly did not do. He may have defrauded you with his totally ridiculous claims about Golden Nugget Tips, but that is another story. Whether you do or don't get legal help, this would be overstating your case and probably it will not help you, and may hurt you by making people dismiss it as an overstatement. If you're going to allege specific criminal actions, you will need an attorney to guide you. (At least, this is my non-attorney opinion.)

On the other hand, just from reading what you said about his sales pitch, it is pretty clear that he is making ridiculously false promises. No one can or does do what he claims, and the language of it is revealing in itself. I don't know the next steps you have available, including with YouTube, but I expect you will get some more feedback now.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #28 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
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kevinkdog View Post
A lot of people want to know who the vendor is, and I get that (i'd love to know too). But does that really help the OP with his situation? I don't see how. This vendor is threatening legal action, and if he is outed, I would guess he would be more likely to go after OP. And if OP does not have a strong case, OP might be digging a deeper hole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rooting out unscrupulous vendors (my last trading webinar I showed some of their tricks), but in this case I see outing the vendor as helping others avoid this guy, hurting the vendor himself, but not really helping OP with his legal problem.

I think advice needs to be centered on helping OP.

Please feel free to disagree. I can't see my advice in this post would be popular (and I understand why, but I am thinking only about the OP here).

You could be right. But these scammers come and go all the time. This guy has his website up since September 2019.

Here's the cancellation language from his website:

Cancellations
Your account or service may be cancelled, subject to the terms hereof, at any time; provided that, as set forth above, no refunds will be issued if your account or other periodic fee-based service is cancelled prior to the end of the applicable period or term.
When you cancel, you are solely responsible for properly canceling your account or service. Your account or service may be cancelled at any time by requesting such cancellation in writing by email to [email protected], which cancellation request must receive a confirmation of receipt from M-Trading Academy and which cancellation will be processed by M-Trading Academy in accordance with its timelines and procedures for email cancellations. Cancellation requests by telephone, facsimile or other means of communication cannot, and will not, be accepted, honored or effective. The cancellation of your account or service will immediately result in the deactivation and deletion of your account or service, the denial of access to the Site and the forfeiture and relinquishment of all content and information within or related to your account or service. No data, content or information can be recovered once your account or service is cancelled, and you assume all responsibility for preserving any data, content or information on your account or service prior to its cancellation. M-Trading Academy may retain data, content or information from your account after cancellation in backup and/or archival copies of the Site and related databases, but such copies, if any, will not be available to you.


https://www.mtradingacademy.com/start

https://6figurementoringgroup.com/home-page

The OP could cancel any time so I don't know what his problem is.

The guy can't debit his credit card after a cancellation. I think the OP needs to review the terms and conditions of the contract he signed. The mentoring website says "NO CONTRACT". But there is a verbal contract if he subscribes to a service and a link to "6fm contract" at the bottom of the page. There's a cancellation policy in that one also:

EITHER PARTY MAY CANCEL UNPERFORMED SERVICES UPON WRITTEN NOTICE (WHICH NOTICE MAY BE MADE VIA E-MAIL TO THE OTHER PARTY).


Also, that name is Indonesian or Filipino. The guy is probably operating from a different country even though the website is registered in the United States. Another good reason to publish everything the OP knows about the guy.

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  #29 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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phantomtrader View Post
You could be right. But these scammers come and go all the time. This guy has his website up since September 2019.

Here's the cancellation language from his website:

Cancellations
Your account or service may be cancelled, subject to the terms hereof, at any time; provided that, as set forth above, no refunds will be issued if your account or other periodic fee-based service is cancelled prior to the end of the applicable period or term.
When you cancel, you are solely responsible for properly canceling your account or service. Your account or service may be cancelled at any time by requesting such cancellation in writing by email to [email protected], which cancellation request must receive a confirmation of receipt from M-Trading Academy and which cancellation will be processed by M-Trading Academy in accordance with its timelines and procedures for email cancellations. Cancellation requests by telephone, facsimile or other means of communication cannot, and will not, be accepted, honored or effective. The cancellation of your account or service will immediately result in the deactivation and deletion of your account or service, the denial of access to the Site and the forfeiture and relinquishment of all content and information within or related to your account or service. No data, content or information can be recovered once your account or service is cancelled, and you assume all responsibility for preserving any data, content or information on your account or service prior to its cancellation. M-Trading Academy may retain data, content or information from your account after cancellation in backup and/or archival copies of the Site and related databases, but such copies, if any, will not be available to you.


https://www.mtradingacademy.com/start

The OP could cancel any time so I don't know what his problem is.

The guy can't debit his credit card after a cancellation. I think the OP needs to review the terms and conditions of the contract he signed. He probably shouldn't be trading either.

Also, that name is Indonesian. The guy is probably operating from a different country even though the website is registered in the United States. Another good reason to publish everything the OP knows about the guy.


Since the OP "outed" the guru, and asked everyone to go to the vendor YouTube channel and leave comments, and OP includes a tracking id in the link to the Vendor site, I'm thinking this whole thing is an attempt to get eyeballs on the vendor.

What good would leaving YouTube comments do, relative to the OP's legal problem? (Short answer, us leaving YouTube comments will not help).

BUT, leaving YouTube comments and watching videos makes YouTube more likely to recommend the video to other viewers. How does that help OP's legal problem again?


I call BS on this whole story. The fact that @phantomtrader uncovered "easy canel" terms on the website just confirms my suspicions.

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  #30 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
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kevinkdog View Post
Since the OP "outed" the guru, and asked everyone to go to the vendor YouTube channel and leave comments, and OP includes a tracking id in the link to the Vendor site, I'm thinking this whole thing is an attempt to get eyeballs on the vendor.

What good would leaving YouTube comments do, relative to the OP's legal problem? (Short answer, us leaving YouTube comments will not help).

BUT, leaving YouTube comments and watching videos makes YouTube more likely to recommend the video to other viewers. How does that help OP's legal problem again?


I call BS on this whole story. The fact that @phantomtrader uncovered "easy canel" terms on the website just confirms my suspicions.

Good point. The OP just joined in July:


Join Date
July 28th, 2020
Total Posts
7
Chats
0
Wiki Contributions
0

Sounds like a vendor setup. Good call, Kevin.

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