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Which get-funded program is the best these days?


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Which get-funded program is the best these days?

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  #1 (permalink)
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 128 since Aug 2018
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Hi all,

I'm considering one of these get-funded programs. Does anyone have an opinion on which is the better program?

TopsStepTrader is the original one and which have been around the longest, but I see there's quite a bit of competition since I last looked around.

I'd really like to continue using Ninja, but it seems like every company I've looked into, except Earn2Trade, offers Ninja.

At a glance, there does not seem to be a great deal of difference between OneUp, TopStep and LeeLoo. Let's look at a 100K account with a profit target of 6K.

In terms of pricing, LeeLoo is cheapest at $215. OneUp is $300 and TopStep most expensive at $325.

Drawdown rules appear to be mostly similar. LeeLoo does not have a daily loss limit, but a maximum drawdown $3K compared to $3.5K at OneUp.

There was some talk about OneUp having a trailing drawdown on unrealized profits. That can be a huge disadvantage and seems like a silly rule to me.

Both LeeLoo/OneUp offers 100% of the first 8K in profits.

At a glance - it seems to me that LeeLoo is indeed the best option?

Does anyone have an opinion? Maybe someone is already funded with any of these?

Thanks in advance!

Howard


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  #2 (permalink)
Vancouver Canada
 
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Howard Roark View Post
Hi all,

I'm considering one of these get-funded programs. Does anyone have an opinion on which is the better program?

Hi Howard,

I've done a lot of research on this. Top Step is unique in that the drawdown limit is calculated at the end of day where as Earn2Trade is calculated during the day. So if you have a position open with E2T and it goes into profit 400 and then pulls back and you close it with 200 profit, your drawdown limit just moved up 200.. That makes it much harder and I don't think its very fair personally. With Top Step if you finish down 200 at the end of the day, then your drawdown limit moves up, but not based on during the day pnl swings.

Leeloo is weird about the payments, it takes a long time before you get the money, also I'm not sure how serious/trustworthy they are. I don't remember the exact details on the payment you'll have to research it, but it was a dealbreaker for me. All of the other companies will pay you within a month of generating profit on your funded account. If I remember correctly they were 3 months or longer.

Here's 3 more to consider that I think are better then those above:

LMI (Liberty Market Investments lmitrade.com) which is Futures but you need to use the Volfix platform for trading. I think they have a more attractive offer then the ones mentioned above. 80% split and trailing drawdown is based on end of day.

FTMO (FTMO.com) I really like this one but you have to use MT4 and its mostly CFD's however if you choose the Bossa broker they have real futures pricing on their cfd's, you just have to use MT4 to enter your orders. 70% split and trailing drawdown is based on end of day.

SMB Futures - division of SMB Capital. This is Futures at a real NYC prop firm, you can use any trading platform that works with Rithmic feed. The downside is they offer a 50% split, the upside is once you pass you get free access to their training materials & Merritt Blacks' live training room and possibly some time with legendary trading psychologist Dr. Brett Steenbarger. (trailing drawdown based on end of day)

Another thing to consider is the cost of your time. These are great programs if you want to experience the emotional impact of trading a good sized account at a fraction of the price, however if you're confident that you'll pass then you could put $1500 into a Futures account to trade the micros and not have the time pressure or the profit split. For the 6 to 8 weeks its likely to take to pass, you could be growing your account nicely..

Here's how I look at this though, I was considering FTMO as I like that the Bossa broker has the futures symbols and pricing and thought it might be nice to use MT4 Cfd's because you can let runners run while you open new scalps (something you can't really do in futures)

So on the 50k account you get $5000 drawdown limit and in session 1 need to make $5000 within a month. Then in round 2 to confirm the funded account you only need to make $2500 with the 5k drawdown limit and have 2 months to do it. They also give you access to their trading psychologist for free which is a bonus. When you think about it though, even though its a 50k account, its more like a 5k account with very high leverage, since that's all you have to work with, and basically you have to make a 100% return within one month to pass the first round. Some of the others give you 2 months to pass..

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  #3 (permalink)
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Howard Roark View Post

Both LeeLoo/OneUp offers 100% of the first 8K in profits.

TST do give 100% of the first 5K. You're probably aware of that but thought I would mention it just in case.
I have never tried any company other than TST but one thing they do that I am not sure the others do is have funded trader interviews on their blog page, and a monthly newsletter that you can sign up for on their website that gives highlights of how their funded traders have been doing. (Frustrating to hear if struggling oneself, but at least it shows their legitimacy).
There is also a TST Facebook page so it is easy to ask questions which can be answered by staff.

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  #4 (permalink)
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TST had a two Step Combine that is in my eyes a disadvantage. The two advantage of OneUp are that Ninjatrader is for free in the evaluation and you dont have to pay any exchange Fees. In my case i save 210 USD every month with OneUp.

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  #5 (permalink)
Oslo Norway
 
 
Posts: 128 since Aug 2018
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Hi, TropicalTrader

Many thanks for your detailed comment!


TropicalTrader View Post
Leeloo is weird about the payments, it takes a long time before you get the money, also I'm not sure how serious/trustworthy they are. I don't remember the exact details on the payment you'll have to research it, but it was a dealbreaker for me. All of the other companies will pay you within a month of generating profit on your funded account. If I remember correctly they were 3 months or longer.

Good to know. 3 months to withdraw profits versus 1 month on the others definitely is a potential dealbreaker.


Quoting 
LMI (Liberty Market Investments lmitrade.com) which is Futures but you need to use the Volfix platform for trading. I think they have a more attractive offer then the ones mentioned above. 80% split and trailing drawdown is based on end of day.

SMB Futures - division of SMB Capital. This is Futures at a real NYC prop firm, you can use any trading platform that works with Rithmic feed. The downside is they offer a 50% split, the upside is once you pass you get free access to their training materials & Merritt Blacks' live training room and possibly some time with legendary trading psychologist Dr. Brett Steenbarger. (trailing drawdown based on end of day)

Will check them out. Thanks. It's a huge value for me to keep using Ninjatrader. I have seen the SMB program and the upside is attractive. Just not sure if it pays for the downside. There seems to be a bit more handholding too.


Quoting 
Another thing to consider is the cost of your time. These are great programs if you want to experience the emotional impact of trading a good sized account at a fraction of the price, however if you're confident that you'll pass then you could put $1500 into a Futures account to trade the micros and not have the time pressure or the profit split. For the 6 to 8 weeks its likely to take to pass, you could be growing your account nicely.

Yeah. I need to think it through a bit.

I already have my own account with Ninjatrader/Dorman at 5K which is down from 7K after a few bad days recently. My confidence is shook a bit and I'm honestly feeling that 5K is a too small account to make any real progress unless I'm really, really making outsized profits on a daily basis OR running a very high risk profile. I'm thinking that just as well as trading in the simulator I could do one of these programs and see where I end up.

Prior to this I did really well banking small consistent profits on a daily basis, but ran into trouble when I scaled up and got greedy for larger profits.

If I go with a funded program - my goal will be to try and net 3 ES points per day on 3 contracts.

This can be done in 14 trading days.

I now see that with TST - I basically have to do this twice? So, 28 trading days, then. Effectively, 5 weeks. Am I right here?

You're quite right that this is a long time investment just to get funded.

And as a funded trader - I pretty much only gain access to a 3K account as that's where my downside is capped.

I see that OneUp have only 1 step evaluation, i.e., you're funded in 15 days.

That pretty much seals the deal for OneUp VS TopStep if I got it right.

So, if I go for OneUp, I'm basically paying $300 for a 3-4 week simulation period where my loss is capped at $300 and the upside is a 3,5K (max drawdown) cushion trading real money.

Correct?

It seems like a very nice deal to me.

Best regards,

Howard

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  #6 (permalink)
shrewsbury uk
 
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With OneUp you can hit the daily loss limit and it only stops you trading for that day. It does not make you fail the evaluation altogether which, I think, is the case with the others.

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  #7 (permalink)
Oslo Norway
 
 
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matthew28 View Post
TST do give 100% of the first 5K. You're probably aware of that but thought I would mention it just in case.
I have never tried any company other than TST but one thing they do that I am not sure the others do is have funded trader interviews on their blog page, and a monthly newsletter that you can sign up for on their website that gives highlights of how their funded traders have been doing. (Frustrating to hear if struggling oneself, but at least it shows their legitimacy).
There is also a TST Facebook page so it is easy to ask questions which can be answered by staff.

I was not aware. Thanks for letting me know.


nikto View Post
TST had a two Step Combine that is in my eyes a disadvantage. The two advantage of OneUp are that Ninjatrader is for free in the evaluation and you dont have to pay any exchange Fees. In my case i save 210 USD every month with OneUp.

Yes. I saw that just now. TST is basically twice the time commitment and I suppose as a consequence it's also twice the cost as you need to pay for 2 months of subscriptions.

The only benefit I can see with TST is that there may be more of a community/support/education and it's a more reputable (?) company. But I'm not interested in the former and as for the latter, OneUp seems good enough for me.

Are you currently funded with OneUp?

Would love it if you had some more details to share here.

Thanks in advance.

Howard

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  #8 (permalink)
Vancouver Canada
 
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Howard Roark View Post
Hi, TropicalTrader

I already have my own account with Ninjatrader/Dorman at 5K which is down from 7K after a few bad days recently. My confidence is shook a bit and I'm honestly feeling that 5K is a too small account to make any real progress unless I'm really, really making outsized profits on a daily basis OR running a very high risk profile. I'm thinking that just as well as trading in the simulator I could do one of these programs and see where I end up.

Prior to this I did really well banking small consistent profits on a daily basis, but ran into trouble when I scaled up and got greedy for larger profits.

If I go with a funded program - my goal will be to try and net 3 ES points per day on 3 contracts.

I recommend you contact Dorman and see if you can get a hard daily stop implemented. See if they can lock your account for the day if you hit $200 in losses (open or closed). This will cure your overtrading and allow you to fight another day. The reality is that some days just suck and you're going to lose money no matter how good your method is. On those days you don't want to blow up or erase your last 2 weeks of profit.. They may also be able to do it by %, example 4 of 5% daily lock limit..

I also recommend you switch to micros. Start trading with 3 mes and then when you're in profit for the day or if you see a trade that you are super confident in, trade 6 micros. Yes, you'll pay a bit more in fees but dont focus on that. Your real goal is to become consistently profitable. This game is a marathon, its not a sprint.. Think about how YOU want to be one of the few people that will still be in the game in a few years...


As for Oneup, when I researched I remember there was something I didn't like, not sure if it was something about the company or if I didn't think it was any better then Topstep... Maybe someone else can answer that..

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  #9 (permalink)
Oslo Norway
 
 
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TropicalTrader View Post
I recommend you contact Dorman and see if you can get a hard daily stop implemented. See if they can lock your account for the day if you hit $200 in losses (open or closed). This will cure your overtrading and allow you to fight another day. The reality is that some days just suck and you're going to lose money no matter how good your method is. On those days you don't want to blow up or erase your last 2 weeks of profit.. They may also be able to do it by %, example 4 of 5% daily lock limit.

Yes. You're quite correct.

To give some background - I was up approx. 200 points over nearly 4 weeks with 80 % winning days and was slowly (I thought) scaling from 1/2 MES to 5 MES as I started gaining confidence/consistency. Then had two fairly bad losing days where I gave back a lot.

In sheer points per contract I was well ahead, but due to the increased leverage I pretty much gave back most of it. This, in turn led to further 'bad behavior'.

Lesson learned: For the future, I will scale up much, much slower.

Contacting Dorman to get a hard daily loss limit implemented is a good idea. Thanks. I believe I've heard some others who have had this set up with their broker.


Quoting 
I also recommend you switch to micros. Start trading with 3 mes and then when you're in profit for the day or if you see a trade that you are super confident in, trade 6 micros. Yes, you'll pay a bit more in fees but dont focus on that. Your real goal is to become consistently profitable. This game is a marathon, its not a sprint.. Think about how YOU want to be one of the few people that will still be in the game in a few years...

Good advice. I'm definitely sticking with the micros.

But, with my account size, this realistically means that growing my account netting 2-3 ES points per day will take me a long, long time, unless I run a high risk profile or really am killing it every day. I prefer to go for consistent small profits and not having to rely on outsized gains.

That's why I feel I have a better chance at leveraging my results with one of these funded programs?

Worst case scenario I have 3 weeks of simulator trading which may not be a bad idea anyhow considering my recent loss.

Other option is to borrow money, but I'm more reluctant towards doing that.


TropicalTrader View Post
As for Oneup, when I researched I remember there was something I didn't like, not sure if it was something about the company or if I didn't think it was any better then Topstep... Maybe someone else can answer that..

Allright. Thanks for letting me know.

Might be the trailing drawdown on unrealized profits? Haven't seen anything beyond that which is bad. I've seen quite a few former TST cuistomers who seems more happy with OneUp.

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  #10 (permalink)
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nikto View Post
TST had a two Step Combine that is in my eyes a disadvantage. The two advantage of OneUp are that Ninjatrader is for free in the evaluation and you dont have to pay any exchange Fees. In my case i save 210 USD every month with OneUp.

Ninjatrader is free in the evaluation/Combine with TST too. So you're saying OneUp pays your professional exchange fees themselves out of their own pocket once a trader is funded with them?


Howard Roark View Post
Other option is to borrow money, but I'm more reluctant towards doing that.

Losing your own money is grim, losing other people's, and presumably your friend's, I can only imagine would be ten times worse.

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