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Need a true Teacher Mentor

  #51 (permalink)
 
madelynnjohnson's Avatar
 madelynnjohnson 
Laramie, Wyoming
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader
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Trading: TF, 6E, ES
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TY199

I don't normally post a lot of posts and I have only glanced through this thread. So I can't speak as far as what others are suggesting. However, as an educator in the public sector and a trader for over 10 years this would be my suggestion for someone beginning to trade. Search for two threads and two webinars that were done by Perry at this website. You should easily find them. I participated in his methodology training. His first webinar was laying a foundation and the second was setting things up in a more sophisticated fashion with more sophisticated indicators, but still using his basic method. I would search in thread attachments for .xlm files which will give you a variety of chart templates. The indicators are usually listed in the first couple of entries in the threads. Download the indicators first and then .xlm file for templates.

Keep your charts as simplified as possible. There are a plethora of indicators out there and many spend a lifetime searching for the "one". It DOES NOT exist. I believe that this is an interpretive skill that we learn as to how to "read" our charts which gather information and then we form opinions leading to decisions as to how and when we want to place a trade. I use no gap range bars. I learned this way and it feels intuitive because I am visual and need to see the path of price as a path and not as a candle that resembles a thermometer. In addition to incorporating Perry's method, I have made some tweaks that make it more easy for me to read my charts. There is one indicator that is a simple one, but enable me to see price action better. It is called Three Bar Reversal and is in the download section at futures.io.

So, here's what I would suggest:
1. Download Ninjatrader 7. This will give you the most access to the indicators available. Get familiar with Ninjatrader platform if you are not already using it.
2. Get some kind of data feed if you don't already have one.
3. Study and learn Perry's method. Send him a private message if you need to as he has always been opening to helping students.
4. Get a chart template and indicators from the first thread (the second thread is designated as a continuation of the first)
5. Find the No Gap Range Bar indicator here at futures.io. I believe that it has to be installed as a chart style (if you don't know how to do this.....ask.)
6. Add the Three Bar Reversal indicator to the other indicators on your chart.
7. Set your chart up using 4 No Gap Range bars and start reading the data that your charts are telling you. There are many examples in Perry's thread that will help you pinpoint entries. Use your DOM and set your profit stop at 4 ticks and for now your exit stop for 8. This is just practice. You have to get completely comfortable with the chart reading and spotting trade entries. By using the DOM your entries and exits are predetermined. You want to create a system and procedure that you can do over and over. This is not a trading strategy where you are going to be in a trade for a long time making a lot of points. That comes later. Use the ES futures for your instrument. Concentrate on one instrument and for now stay away from CL. It's too volatile. Remember, you are approaching this like a babe in the woods and reprogramming how your think, read charts and react to the information that you are receiving from the interpretation of the chart.

Trade in SIM. You would not go out and use some complicated piece of equipment without proper training and that includes practice. After using Perry's method for a while you will be able to spot trades while they are setting up. Use market replay. You can use this like a tape recorder. Rewind, watch how that trade started setting up to get to the point where an entry would have been possible. With this method and a little practice it's not going to take long for you to see the entries.....especially with the example charts which were submitted for critique to Perry.

Here's the money strategy for the ES: 4 tick profit with 1 contract equals $50.00; 4 trades per day (and we don't over trade) equals $200.00 per day: that equals approximately $1,000.00 per week and finally, $50,000 over a 50 week time period. Of course, you have a small commission. However, with accuracy this should not eat you up and we are going for accuracy. Once you get comfortable, go to 6 no gap range. You will be able to get more ticks per trade. Set your DOM for 6 ticks profit. This means 1 contract at 6 tick equals $75.00. You do the math. For now, you want to develop a consistent performance. If this is done the money will follow. Once you are consistent go to trading SIM with live market data. You are looking for the same thing.....consistent performance. Stay away from trying to look for another indicator if you start having trouble making good trades. It's not out there. Stay with your simple chart. This is the instance where less is better. Listen to the voice of experience. I've been there and done that.

This is just a rough tip of the iceberg, but will get you started. You need a foundation and I feel this will work for you. If my daughter wanted to get into trading, this is what I would suggest for her. I know that you will have a number of questions. I did. This forum is an excellent place for answers and if you need any other hep, holler.

All the best,
Madelynn

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  #52 (permalink)
 
romerico's Avatar
 romerico 
South Elgin IL/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ES
Posts: 8 since Oct 2013
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try here, yes it costs money but it is the best for the money I've found that's legit https://www.tradingresearchgroup.com/

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  #53 (permalink)
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Master
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Trading: ES, ZB
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Ty199 View Post
Really need help to learn. I have been trading for about 4 years and lost so much money. I paper trade and did use real money until I finally learned that I am not doing any good loosing my money. I have tried so many set ups, indicators all that stuff but cant get the solid foundation to start with. Im missing something somewhere and have been trying so long to find what it is. I want to learn ! I have to learn ! This is what I want to do... Even after all the lost money, failing and feeling like crap I still have a drive to do it and it has not slowed down. I am not getting something somewhere. Looking for a true person or group to teach me. I dont want to follow someone I want to be on my own after I learn. Recommendations on where to look and start ?


Here are 2 separate pieces that I posted the other day in another thread, that I believe you should read very slowly and very carefully. They are extremely relevant to the dilemma you are encountering. In any event, if you lack the skills to trade, you are going to have to trade , to acquire the skills you lack. That's a fact, and there's no way around it. What you do have control over, is how you approach the task.

**********************************************************************************************************

I believe there are at least a few points we can all agree upon; because they are blatantly obvious to anyone who has ever endeavored to become a profitable trader. And for the most part, they are self-explanatory. 1) Adequate capitalization 2) Emotional Aptitude, which includes the requisite temperament, attitude, patience, discipline, mindfulness, and humility. 3) Risk/Trade Management i.e., traders must strive for both a high win rate and asymmetric payoffs. It is essential in trading that a high win rate is attained in conjunction with high expectancy, because the risk of ruin is a function of the loss rate. If your method does not have a high enough win rate then the risk of ruin will be greater due to the inevitability of an idiosyncratic loss or consecutive losers. As an addendum, an approach that provides quick feedback to alert the trader of failure as soon as possible is highly preferable. That being said, no matter how crude or refined a method one employs, it finally boils down to surviving against one's own incomplete intellect, a misfired bout of randomness, in controlling the risk, and in executing a set of consistent ideas day in and day out, so that chance can prevail.

Perhaps another fact we can all agree upon, is that there isn’t one correct way to trade, nor one correct approach to the market that will afford you the best chance of coming out a consistent winner. A lot of that has to do with the fact that no two traders are exactly alike. Allow me to generalize and classify the 3 main types of traders. 1) Those who don’t know anything, or have a very limited understanding about the markets. 2) Those who think they have an understanding of the markets; but are unable to recognize their lack of relevant knowledge. And, 3) Those who understand how the markets are structured, how they function, and who drives price.

In a very generalized manner (once again), the markets are still the same as they were in the past. Markets go up and they go down, they back and fill, and risk and uncertainty is still a fundamental reality in trading; and just as in the past, the best we can hope to achieve is an incomplete, but probabilistic knowledge of that environment. However, today’s markets have evolved considerably from past markets. Not the least of the reasons why they have changed is the shift from active to passive investment, and increased AUM of strategies that are on “autopilot” There are still decisions being made by humans; by active value investors, and the fundamental/discretionary crowd, but their influence on price has dwindled dramatically. ~90% of trading volume comes from Quant, Index, ETFs, and Options.

Back in the day, the market used to work something like this. The market had been moving in a certain regime, and sooner or later a fund manager would get the inkling that a change was afoot. His action or inaction would disseminate exponentially to others, and then the regime would change. The key to keeping up with this was to know what the fund manager was keying off of, and then following that signal. So, back then 2 of the most important things that counted with regard to markets were sentiment and momentum. That is, it was all behavioral, and reasonably efficient. Sure, they would like to comment on fundamentals, but the fundamentals were only important because they influenced the behavioral.

.A great deal of the human component has been removed, and this is why a trader should have a foundation of knowledge about the market and an understanding of how it works, before he actually begins to trade. One used to have to monitor data with human input, and you had best be making your inputs adapt to what the fund managers were watching (i.e. usually the length of past data). If the in-crowd had switched to watching the last week and you are watching the last two months, a change would occur before you become aware.

There Is still a herd effect, in a sense. It’s self-referential in the same way that the human phenomenon would feed upon itself.However, it is much more mechanical than psychological in nature. For the most part, non-human influenced data is fixed and linear And, it all falls neatly into place. “An increase in volatility typically leads to an increase in systematic selling, which happens in an environment of reduced liquidity, and hence can produce outsized market impact” Volatility spikes lead to less liquidity and also to systematic de-leveraging, which means selling into a falling and illiquid market, which in turn drives volatility higher, and around and around. Once trailing realized starts to move higher in a sustainable fashion, target-vol. deleveraging starts and executes “passively” in the market over the ensuing days until there’s nothing left to purge."

The markets have changed and that requires an approach built on an analytical framework that is relevant to current drivers of price. Accordingly, the tools we use have to change and so does the perspective needed to understand the context of the modern market. Therefore, it is not the tool nor technique so much, but the features of the market that count and define if an idea might work. The goal should always be to figure out the game that is being played, and then play that game.

**********************************************************************************************************
There really isn't that many different ways of approaching trading correctly, but there are an infinite number of ways to trade incorrectly. Unfortunately, higher visibility is a user level factor, and the acquisition of information and adoption of that information transfers almost instantaneously when it is readily available, versus when one has to seek it out and perception of adoption is non-existent.

Obviously, there are many more failed traders than successful traders, so there is a very high probability, that there is a commensurate amount of bad advice and faulty knowledge available to aspiring newbie traders. In other words, what-they-see-is what-they-get. The stuff that really works takes time and is hard work to uncover. That is, the methodological wrapper for inductively organizing the information gathered is accomplished through quasi-experimentation.

The other problem is, people believe what they want to believe, see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear. They tend to avoid information that contradicts what they already think or believe, and tend to seek out other like-minded people. It’s the guiding force behind organized religion, the political system, cults, and yes...forums.

Researchers found that people are about twice as likely to select information that supports their own point of view (67 percent) as to consider an opposing idea (33 percent) and 3 times as reluctant to consider differing perspective when it pertains to politics and religion. One could only imagine what the percentage is when it comes to money and trading -probably 95-99%, huh? I've seen this phenomenon repeat itself ad infinitum on this forum. Big Mike and other experienced traders will dole out advice, and it is summarily ignored or even refuted, by aspiring traders with little experience.

It is not only easy to get sidetracked, spun around, and derailed by the markets, but one can also be misled if the information they are receiving is apocryphal. Everyone wants to make money, but with respect to what? Everyone one wants to wrestle the gorilla, until the door opens. So, instead of making rational decisions based on objective observation, they make emotional decisions that make them feel safe and comfortable. They develop a compulsive addiction to this stimulus-response loop which reduces them to instant-gratification junkies. They may have a seemingly effective methodology that generates profitable trades, but in the end, they never get ahead because they end giving it all back in the rake and grind. They either choose the markets-they-trade and the strategies-they-use randomly, or once again, make the decision based on comfort.

The result is that 80% of the ideas that are freely exchanged on this site are invalid. They are misguided, anachronistic, simplistic, irrelevant and often just plain wrong. The dilemma is, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff. Logic would dictate, and it is confirmed from my personal experience, that the best place to seek knowledge is from someone who is extremely knowledgeable and experienced. So for starters, i would question the quality of the sources of the advice you are seeking, and look to those individuals who are proven and have successfully accomplished what you seek to achieve.

Rational traders incorporate risk into the determination of their expectation, because their approach is reason-based, rather than driven by emotion. They are able to build positions, add to their positions, and follow the move-to-the-end. They focus on getting bigger, and size their trades to get the maximum compounded growth of their capital relative to the amount of risk they are willing to incur, and they trade the markets and use the strategies that allows them to accomplish these goals. They realize and accept that markets vary from day-to-day and even intra-day, and that it is unwise to trade the market the same way, on days that aren't alike.

Forums can be beneficial and I would certainly argue that more education is preferable to less, provided the education doesn't impede someone's ability to reason things through for themselves. And provided the knowledge that is imparted is accurate and doesn’t mislead it’s readers.. In order to effectively convey ideas to others, you must amend their perspective and their point of reference, so that they may see it anew, and from an entry point that they will understand. To spare them the inevitable beatings of otherwise learning it the hard way is not often appreciated until its too late.

I realize this is very theoretical sounding and not very practical in nature, but it is not without its reason. Learn to think critically (& on your own) and don't be a follower. The way you choose to learn and acquire expertise in trading is as important as the actual process. So, give it careful thought and approach it logically - develop a plan to learn and then execute the plan. Forget about popular opinion and don't take anything at face value. Organize and filter your ideas and determine what is relevant, but allow conflicting ideas to generate new conclusions. Keep in mind, that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

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  #54 (permalink)
 Pocketful 
Vancouver, BC, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ironbeam
Trading: MES YM
Posts: 26 since Jan 2013
Thanks Given: 32
Thanks Received: 32


Ty199 View Post
I am doing micros now learning that profit is profit and not just looking for a trade of 100's every time. A 20$ profit on a trade is good on a micro and would be good on a Emini. Say NQ or ES , those are the ones I like the best. MNQ and MGC would be my 2 that I would want to trade. I have tried moving averages and cant seem to get a solid pattern with them, the VWAP is confusing as i have found so many that say what works for them is not the same for others. The VWAP bounce seems to never work for me, it dont bounce and hits my SL. I think reading the charts would be the best, looking at what is happening and having a very good indication of what its going to do.


I use the ES for reading orderflow volume data; and executes micro-ES trades because my account is small. I would too say that I've overspent on 3rd party indicators after trying every possible free one from the internet.

Since being in Edge Trading Group from last July, I have a trading buddy to zoom in each moring to review our trades together after the room closes. For starters, review this playlist for some education and see if how it resonates with you. [yt]https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNBRFHLLvHYY-OrWk7seuit0CB8P_RxGR[/yt]

Good luck in your continued trading journy.

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  #55 (permalink)
sraman
washington, D.C.
 
Posts: 22 since Jul 2018
Thanks Given: 0
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You need to develop your strategy first and then test it. You do not need to decide what you want to trade - stocks, futures, bond, or FX. Once you have the strategy figured out, you trade whatever you feel comfortable with.

I would like to recommend these books to start with:
1. Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas
2. Candlestick Trading by Stephen Bigalow
3. Atomic Habits by James Clear

If you are still not clear after reading these, you can contact me through DM for further cooperation.

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  #56 (permalink)
 
DavidHP's Avatar
 DavidHP 
Isla Mujeres, MX
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Ninjatrader / Optimus Futures / AmpFutures
Trading: ES / 6E / 6B / CL
Frequency: Every few days
Duration: Minutes
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MiniP View Post
might be having a brain fart but care to explain the "1000 delta chart" that makes my 4500 tick look like a sloppy mess. And honestly would rather trade off that, looks very clean... and I thought my 4500 tick was clean.. please share details/set up. Is this an add on I assume?

-P

This type of chart was posted by @tigertrader on this link.


I have a custom Delta Bar Type and I made a similar chart.
I've had it for a very long time.
Thanks to @tigertrader for the reminder.

I think you can look up Delta Volume Chart for information about them.

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  #57 (permalink)
 DrPatrick 
Murfreesboro, TN, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ThinkorSwim
Broker: Thinkorswim
Trading: emini ES
Posts: 8 since Feb 2017
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Oriole View Post
How much does he charge?

I would encourage you to contact him and ask him that question.

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  #58 (permalink)
 bandtasia 
Grand Junction, Colorado/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB/NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
Posts: 15 since Mar 2015
Thanks Given: 27
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My three top choices, not necessarily in order are: Merritt uses Market Profile at SMB Futures if you want to immerse yourself in this methodology, but his mental approach is noteworthy. Ray Burchett at Trust1st has a 2 part program which was also known as IDT, or Intuitive Development for Traders. Part 1 is a continuous self-discovery to help you uncover exactly where you need the work at any point in your development, and the other is teaching his trading system, primarily with the ES. I won't go into detail here other than he was an S&P Futures pit trader, and currently trades his own account online. There are excellent references to him in Futures.io if you search under his name or google trust1st. The other is Robin Dayne, who approaches both the psychological and technical aspects of trading, and she doesn't teach a trading "system", she teaches how to read the market bar by bar which is either complementary or stand alone. She is very methodical in her trading approach, which I find useful. I've also referenced her in previous posts. She worked with Paul Tudor Jones for a number of years, and is also a new member in Futures.io, so you can look her up within the site. These three have contributed the most to my trading progress over the years. Lately I have found Robin's methods of reading the charts most helpful, even as solid as I am in my own strategy - excellent for beginners or advanced traders. It is definitely a subject for introspection, and I see there are excellent suggestions in the other posts as well. I'm just speaking from the experience of working directly with coaches.

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  #59 (permalink)
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 tigertrader 
Philly, Pa
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, ZB
Posts: 6,482 since Jul 2010
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madelynnjohnson View Post
TY199

I don't normally post a lot of posts and I have only glanced through this thread. So I can't speak as far as what others are suggesting. However, as an educator in the public sector and a trader for over 10 years this would be my suggestion for someone beginning to trade. Search for two threads and two webinars that were done by Perry at this website. You should easily find them. I participated in his methodology training. His first webinar was laying a foundation and the second was setting things up in a more sophisticated fashion with more sophisticated indicators, but still using his basic method. I would search in thread attachments for .xlm files which will give you a variety of chart templates. The indicators are usually listed in the first couple of entries in the threads. Download the indicators first and then .xlm file for templates.

Keep your charts as simplified as possible. There are a plethora of indicators out there and many spend a lifetime searching for the "one". It DOES NOT exist. I believe that this is an interpretive skill that we learn as to how to "read" our charts which gather information and then we form opinions leading to decisions as to how and when we want to place a trade. I use no gap range bars. I learned this way and it feels intuitive because I am visual and need to see the path of price as a path and not as a candle that resembles a thermometer. In addition to incorporating Perry's method, I have made some tweaks that make it more easy for me to read my charts. There is one indicator that is a simple one, but enable me to see price action better. It is called Three Bar Reversal and is in the download section at futures.io.

So, here's what I would suggest:
1. Download Ninjatrader 7. This will give you the most access to the indicators available. Get familiar with Ninjatrader platform if you are not already using it.
2. Get some kind of data feed if you don't already have one.
3. Study and learn Perry's method. Send him a private message if you need to as he has always been opening to helping students.
4. Get a chart template and indicators from the first thread (the second thread is designated as a continuation of the first)
5. Find the No Gap Range Bar indicator here at futures.io. I believe that it has to be installed as a chart style (if you don't know how to do this.....ask.)
6. Add the Three Bar Reversal indicator to the other indicators on your chart.
7. Set your chart up using 4 No Gap Range bars and start reading the data that your charts are telling you. There are many examples in Perry's thread that will help you pinpoint entries. Use your DOM and set your profit stop at 4 ticks and for now your exit stop for 8. This is just practice. You have to get completely comfortable with the chart reading and spotting trade entries. By using the DOM your entries and exits are predetermined. You want to create a system and procedure that you can do over and over. This is not a trading strategy where you are going to be in a trade for a long time making a lot of points. That comes later. Use the ES futures for your instrument. Concentrate on one instrument and for now stay away from CL. It's too volatile. Remember, you are approaching this like a babe in the woods and reprogramming how your think, read charts and react to the information that you are receiving from the interpretation of the chart.

Trade in SIM. You would not go out and use some complicated piece of equipment without proper training and that includes practice. After using Perry's method for a while you will be able to spot trades while they are setting up. Use market replay. You can use this like a tape recorder. Rewind, watch how that trade started setting up to get to the point where an entry would have been possible. With this method and a little practice it's not going to take long for you to see the entries.....especially with the example charts which were submitted for critique to Perry.

Here's the money strategy for the ES: 4 tick profit with 1 contract equals $50.00; 4 trades per day (and we don't over trade) equals $200.00 per day: that equals approximately $1,000.00 per week and finally, $50,000 over a 50 week time period. Of course, you have a small commission. However, with accuracy this should not eat you up and we are going for accuracy. Once you get comfortable, go to 6 no gap range. You will be able to get more ticks per trade. Set your DOM for 6 ticks profit. This means 1 contract at 6 tick equals $75.00. You do the math. For now, you want to develop a consistent performance. If this is done the money will follow. Once you are consistent go to trading SIM with live market data. You are looking for the same thing.....consistent performance. Stay away from trying to look for another indicator if you start having trouble making good trades. It's not out there. Stay with your simple chart. This is the instance where less is better. Listen to the voice of experience. I've been there and done that.

This is just a rough tip of the iceberg, but will get you started. You need a foundation and I feel this will work for you. If my daughter wanted to get into trading, this is what I would suggest for her. I know that you will have a number of questions. I did. This forum is an excellent place for answers and if you need any other hep, holler.

All the best,
Madelynn

Use your DOM and set your profit stop at 4 ticks and for now your exit stop for 8.

really?...you're risking 8 tics to make 4 tics? What could go wrong with that?

This is not a trading strategy where you are going to be in a trade for a long time making a lot of points. That comes later.

So, forget that you are learning on how to trade incorrectly and forming bad habits, now. You can always learn how to trade correctly later.

Once you get comfortable, go to 6 no gap range. You will be able to get more ticks per trade.

Because the data series you use determines trade management?

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  #60 (permalink)
 
spideysteve's Avatar
 spideysteve 
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT, MT4, Jigsaw
Broker: Continuum
Trading: ZN, ES
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@Ty199

There are a lot of people recommending certain course or people, and that's great - because those are things that have helped them individually and they are trying to help you by making suggestions.

For example, Merrit Black from SMB has been recommended here by several people. IMO, he's a horrible educator. I really can't put my finger on WHY I don't like him, I just don't. And, while I have no doubt that he's a profitable trader and has a lot of knowledge, the times I've watched videos by him have been a giant waste of my time, because I don't like him and therefore I learned nothing from him. I have no personal sort of dealings with him, it's just that I don't connect with him and his mannerisms, personality and style. Nothing personal, it's just how I perceive him, for whatever reason. I've accepted it and moved on. On the other hand, Mike and Steve from SMB I think are great and I watch videos they do all the time as I seem to take a little something away from nearly every one, even though they are focused on stocks as opposed to futures.

My point is that you need to study people to learn from, if you really want to learn. If you don't connect with a person, you won't be able to learn from them and you should move on. There are a ton of suggestions here and you will need hours of your time to try and find someone that you can connect with.

Good luck in your journey.

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