We trade to win and most traders define a ‘win’ as a trade that makes money. But in my experience most aspiring traders over-focus on the money, which, paradoxically, causes unnecessary losses. I call this vicious circle the Money Trap.

Let me explain.

In trading and in life, money is a ‘hot topic’. A study of 4,500 couples revealed that arguments over money are by far the top predictor of divorce. Why? In marriages, arguments about money trigger core security and self-worth issues. As so it is in trading.

In trading, two things happen to those who over-focus on money.

First, you will trigger your biological imperative to avoid taking the loss, because your security is at stake. That’s when then things get slippery and you will be tempted to trade-not-to-lose. This means you will not manage your trade according to any rational rules.

Second, when we are overly preoccupied with money (security), our field of attention narrows down (tunnel vision), so that we are very likely to miss the obvious. We will micro-focus and micro-manage our trades. This loss of perspective will get us shaken out of good trades and our self-esteem will plummet.

Trading well requires that we condition ourselves to do the opposite of what human nature urges us to do. It’s not easy, but changing just this one thing about your trading could make it possible for you to stay in winning trades longer.

Rx: To avoid the Money Trap, consider putting some tape or a piece of paper over your P&L and trade without reference to it until the end of the day. Along with that tactic, shift your attention from ‘the money’ to your Method and define a ‘win’ as a trade in which you carefully followed your rules, regardless of the monetary result. By doing this, your security and self-worth are not at stake with each and every trade. Then you can trade-to-win and not sabotage yourself.

This is to Ty199. I have subscribed to Mike's site for number of years, but I almost never respond to posts. I received an email that I must respond in some way to not get canceled from futures.I/O. So I clicked onto the site where I saw your question. I almost did not respond to your dilemma which I would define as a losing trader for nearly 4 years, and that you're asking for help because you do not know where to turn. The issues that led to your failure are legion, and most of the causes will seem almost impossible to understand if indeed you have been trading for four years and have lost money. It is impossible to give you a solution on one simple post without knowing more about you. It is not just an issue of being underfunded, or having the wrong system, or having no practical understanding about how markets work, there are some issues about you, and perhaps a lack of understanding about how you process information and are unable to apply this insight to a profitable outcome.

I have been around the markets since I was 31, and in just over two weeks I will be 70. I have never read markets better in my life than I read markets now. I am a highly educated man, and I am successful and I don't need to make another dime in my life. Yet, nothing has been more challenging than learning what I needed to know to trade markets. In my not so humble opinion there are very few traders who can read a market better than I do, and it didn't come cheaply, it took me nearly 40 years, and I am still learning.

I am going to give some advice, and I don't know how to give you a complete answer because one fact needs to be determined, and I can't do that for you. you may not ever be a good trader because you don't have the personal insight, the tenacity, and a proper approach to developing your skills. You may not have the conviction to seek out and change the reasons for your failures thus far. You may not have the capital. This is not meant to be harsh. There is reality. When I practice medicine, one of the many things I've done in my life, I never told a patient dying of a terminal illness that everything was going to be all right and that they would get better. There are realities to success and failure. The good thing is you're not mentioning that you have a terminal illness and that means you have a chance. Extending my analogy, I can't tell you what your solution is because I don't know your problem, and from a trading point of view it's impossible to know what you need. From a probability point of view, you need much more than a trading system. There is something about you by the nature of your story that indicates this. So that we are perfectly clear, there is nothing unique to you as I have had my issues, and I chose to work this out over a period of almost 40 years.

I don't wish to violate any of the rules of this site. If there's something that I've said, or there's something inappropriate about the solution I will offer, I would expect Mike to delete my post. The fact is while I know how to read markets and I understand the dynamics of markets far better than most people as best I can tell, I don't even know if I'm posting on the correct link here, one of the issues with old age. I have no website, I have no commercial venture in trading other than trading my own account, I have no interest in the mentoring business, and to be honest, if you did, you couldn't afford me. Last year, a couple of old friends it turns out... have been trading for nearly 30 years, but they weren't making money in markets. I decided in a gesture of friendship to send them videos in a public forum, and this turned into about 300 videos ( to my shock) and about 900 followers which is even more shocking. I do not make a penny from this... as I did it to help two of my friends who are about my age.

I have to be very careful what I say here, because most people who offer advice, including some of the advice you are being offered is not what's going to work for you, but this form doesn't allow for me to address those issues.

Since I like to play by the rules, if Mike cares to hear where I post, but Mike will be familiar with that site, I would be happy to give him that information and he can decide if it's appropriate to post that information on this site, or to you directly. I don't know what 900 people are doing in their own trading, but I know one of my students who is well-funded and has had marginal success until recently, is doing phenomenally... actually in markets that I do not trade as my interest is in futures markets. It is about how to think, seeking objectivity...in addition to understanding markets and their traps.

This is to Ty199. I have subscribed to Mike's site for number of years, but I almost never respond to posts. I received an email that I must respond in some way to not get canceled from futures.I/O. So I clicked onto the site where I saw your question. I almost did not respond to your dilemma which I would define as a losing trader for nearly 4 years, and that you're asking for help because you do not know where to turn. The issues that led to your failure are legion, and most of the causes will seem almost impossible to understand if indeed you have been trading for four years and have lost money. It is impossible to give you a solution on one simple post without knowing more about you. It is not just an issue of being underfunded, or having the wrong system, or having no practical understanding about how markets work, there are some issues about you, and perhaps a lack of understanding about how you process information and are unable to apply this insight to a profitable outcome.

I have been around the markets since I was 31, and in just over two weeks I will be 70. I have never read markets better in my life than I read markets now. I am a highly educated man, and I am successful and I don't need to make another dime in my life. Yet, nothing has been more challenging than learning what I needed to know to trade markets. In my not so humble opinion there are very few traders who can read a market better than I do, and it didn't come cheaply, it took me nearly 40 years, and I am still learning.

I am going to give some advice, and I don't know how to give you a complete answer because one fact needs to be determined, and I can't do that for you. you may not ever be a good trader because you don't have the personal insight, the tenacity, and a proper approach to developing your skills. You may not have the conviction to seek out and change the reasons for your failures thus far. You may not have the capital. This is not meant to be harsh. There is reality. When I practice medicine, one of the many things I've done in my life, I never told a patient dying of a terminal illness that everything was going to be all right and that they would get better. There are realities to success and failure. The good thing is you're not mentioning that you have a terminal illness and that means you have a chance. Extending my analogy, I can't tell you what your solution is because I don't know your problem, and from a trading point of view it's impossible to know what you need. From a probability point of view, you need much more than a trading system. There is something about you by the nature of your story that indicates this. So that we are perfectly clear, there is nothing unique to you as I have had my issues, and I chose to work this out over a period of almost 40 years.

I don't wish to violate any of the rules of this site. If there's something that I've said, or there's something inappropriate about the solution I will offer, I would expect Mike to delete my post. The fact is while I know how to read markets and I understand the dynamics of markets far better than most people as best I can tell, I don't even know if I'm posting on the correct link here, one of the issues with old age. I have no website, I have no commercial venture in trading other than trading my own account, I have no interest in the mentoring business, and to be honest, if you did, you couldn't afford me. Last year, a couple of old friends it turns out... have been trading for nearly 30 years, but they weren't making money in markets. I decided in a gesture of friendship to send them videos in a public forum, and this turned into about 300 videos ( to my shock) and about 900 followers which is even more shocking. I do not make a penny from this... as I did it to help two of my friends who are about my age.

I have to be very careful what I say here, because most people who offer advice, including some of the advice you are being offered is not what's going to work for you, but this form doesn't allow for me to address those issues.

Since I like to play by the rules, if Mike cares to hear where I post, but Mike will be familiar with that site, I would be happy to give him that information and he can decide if it's appropriate to post that information on this site, or to you directly. I don't know what 900 people are doing in their own trading, but I know one of my students who is well-funded and has had marginal success until recently, is doing phenomenally... actually in markets that I do not trade as my interest is in futures markets. It is about how to think, seeking objectivity...in addition to understanding markets and their traps.

@Ty199

Have you tried mindfulness and meditation practice to help with focus and concentration?

I have kinda, the Dr. had me do some but it was hard to even do that. Maybe because he had me doing breathing lessons for like 10 min at a time starting out. But I still start to think about so much stuff and loose focus on what i was doing. Honest I really not for sure if I know what mediation is to an exact point of what to do.

It looks like you have the ADX on top of MACD. So, instead of these lines converging when /CL forms a bottom, they are opposite of each other. It really does not make a lot of difference, but if you can have the MACD on top of the ADX it would be much easier to see the lines converging first at almost the exact bottom of /CL and then start getting away from each other. Let me try to attach a chart from another platform that makes it easier to see the setup.


ADX_PPO_HomeDepot


ADX_PPO_051020


I attached two charts with the setup. One is for Home Depot (HD) and the other is for Caterpillar (CAT). On these charts, the PPO, or in your case MACD, is on top and the yellow line is the 9-period average. On the bottom chart is the ADX with +DI/-DI and the blue line is the ADX line. As you can see, I hope, as the bottom is forming on these daily charts, the yellow line comes close to the ADX blue line. This is the warning of a setup getting ready to trigger LONG. The trigger is when the +DI green line CROSSES over the -DI red line. When this happens you go LONG the very next day, or sometimes towards the close of the same day if you see these two lines are about to cross. It is a little bit aggressive, but with a tight stop you can enter the trade. I will try to use TOS to see if I can setup the chart my way. I thought that TOS had the PPO indicator, well I will check it out. There a few tips as to how to use these two indicators together for entering a trade, but let's go one step at a time so you don't get confused. Get this setup working now and later we can discuss the refinements of using these two indicators. Let me know if you need some more clarification of the setup. Good luck and Good money. In my opinion it is better to use this setup from hourly charts and up. Don't use on less than 30 minute charts. For a good profit always go to higher time frames.

This is a cool set up, I couldnt find the PPO on TOS. But I am trying this out now. I dont know what I was thinking when you said put the DI on top of the macd LOL. I put it all in one spot on top of each other and it looked like a scribble match LOL. But so far just practice, 3 trades 1 loser 2 wins. The loser I did got in late and it was a small move and topped before I took profit. On the ES 1 contract had a 200$ trade. Ia m going to play with this more and see if I can get a good system going. I may change a few things and try them also, but going to mess with this and see what I can do. Thank you. I like it so far and seems pretty simple and easy to understand !

Really need help to learn. I have been trading for about 4 years and lost so much money. I paper trade and did use real money until I finally learned that I am not doing any good loosing my money. I have tried so many set ups, indicators all that stuff but cant get the solid foundation to start with. Im missing something somewhere and have been trying so long to find what it is. I want to learn ! I have to learn ! This is what I want to do... Even after all the lost money, failing and feeling like crap I still have a drive to do it and it has not slowed down. I am not getting something somewhere. Looking for a true person or group to teach me. I dont want to follow someone I want to be on my own after I learn. Recommendations on where to look and start ?

I have kinda, the Dr. had me do some but it was hard to even do that. Maybe because he had me doing breathing lessons for like 10 min at a time starting out. But I still start to think about so much stuff and loose focus on what i was doing. Honest I really not for sure if I know what mediation is to an exact point of what to do.

'I paper trade and did use real money until I finally learned that I am not doing any good loosing my money.'

Really need help to learn. I have been trading for about 4 years and lost so much money. I paper trade and did use real money until I finally learned that I am not doing any good loosing my money. I have tried so many set ups, indicators all that stuff but cant get the solid foundation to start with. Im missing something somewhere and have been trying so long to find what it is. I want to learn ! I have to learn ! This is what I want to do... Even after all the lost money, failing and feeling like crap I still have a drive to do it and it has not slowed down. I am not getting something somewhere. Looking for a true person or group to teach me. I dont want to follow someone I want to be on my own after I learn. Recommendations on where to look and start ?

I understand this need - but are you 100% sure you want a mentor? What if the mentor asks you to do stuff you don't really want to do:

- Be 100% responsible for your trading decisions & your trading plan
- Cut down your trading time so you have more time to go over videos of every trade you make at the end of every day
- Write to your trade journal after every trade
- Stick rigidly to your plan and make no off plan trades (people find this really tough)
- Keep an eye on the news, the volatility, the pace of the market - use that to decide whether to trade or not
- Not trade on some days
- Throw a lot of your beliefs about trading away
- Have 100% faith in your mentor and follow his instructions to the letter

I'm not saying any of these are things you specifically...

In my experience. A lot of people looking for a mentor are looking for setups. They are looking for a shortcut. They are looking for less work. It's normal for traders to underestimate the amount of work involved to improve and when the shortcut initially looks like a lot of extra work - they bail.

IMO, Mentor is essential...but also someone who can be with you long term ideally lives in same city and you can consult regularly say once a month ...one who can guide , encourage and provide subtle insights....not just to learn from...and yes...he/she needs to be a real trader....

Price action can help you. I was in a similar position and i have seen lot of improvement. I have not been consistent in profit making , but my winning rate has increased after joining here. You can trade Oil, ES and other Futures with mechanism thought in this group.



https://www.oiltradinggroup.com/

TY -- Glad to see you are making some progress and letting the trades come to you . It can be a slow process to become a good trader and an ever ending learning curve at least for me anyways . There will always be someone a little better so keep grabbing a few good tips when you can . When I use to play golf it was beneficial to play with someone better then me so I could learn from them , trading is no different . Wish you the best on your endeavor .

Really need help to learn. I have been trading for about 4 years and lost so much money. I paper trade and did use real money until I finally learned that I am not doing any good loosing my money. I have tried so many set ups, indicators all that stuff but cant get the solid foundation to start with. Im missing something somewhere and have been trying so long to find what it is. I want to learn ! I have to learn ! This is what I want to do... Even after all the lost money, failing and feeling like crap I still have a drive to do it and it has not slowed down. I am not getting something somewhere. Looking for a true person or group to teach me. I dont want to follow someone I want to be on my own after I learn. Recommendations on where to look and start ?

Hello Ty199,

Try one of the price action course here on the forums.

There is no getting around it, you will have to pay for trading course until you find something you are comfortable with.

Can you specify which price action course (the paid one)? Any direct links?

I am currently doing the Axia Futures Online Career course and in my opinion, it's the only course worth spending your money on. Have a look at their YouTube channel and you will see for yourself.

You can see a lot of live trades on their YouTube channel. The guys are the real deal and they are not mainly a training outfit, but a prop trading one.

itrader46,

How do you know they are the real deal? Many many many say they are real deal.

The big traders there swing 300-1000 lots, and you can see it in the book.

josh,

Can you see +100 of their trades live?

Hello Ty199,

Try one of the price action course here on the forums.

There is no getting around it, you will have to pay for trading course until you find something you are comfortable with.

Trying to learn on your own is non sense to me when you can go buy a trading course or hire a mentor to teach you.

'audited trading records'

Not +100 trades -- I can see on the videos (that were recorded at the time, so no, not live), the orders in the book, as they are placed, because often they're 100 lots or more. No doubt you are aware how this works, and that it can't be faked. There are plenty of shysters out there, and they can easily fool people who don't know better (trading sim, trading live but recording two offsetting hedged accounts, the list goes on). This is not the case here.

The last time I cared if anyone was "legit" in a trading video was about 10 years ago when I was new to futures. I was mesmerized by a video of a "profitable" trader. But I don't watch videos of people trading now because I am a trader, and it's a waste of time. Except for the above, because he/they actually know how to execute, and it's informational.

Whether something being sold is useful depends in part on the information, and in part on the purchaser. If the purchaser is like 90% of traders looking for a way around their own laziness, then nothing will work for them, period. If a recipient is more like a rock than a sponge, they won't soak up much.