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eminishark system


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eminishark system

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  #1 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

gents, I recall on another thread this system was mentioned. I was curious and I decided to investigate it and after speaking with the developer I went ahead and signed up for it.

Although the system only runs on the developers own trading program (atrader) and the program itself has a long way to go in terms of a charting and order execution platform, it is certainly in the same affordability level of amibroker, though I would stop the comparison there as amibroker is much more advanced.

atrader supports IB for OE, and ZenFire, Transact, IB, DTN for market data. I use DTN/IB/ZF, but DTN is really what I feed my charting program (given I am studing fulcrum traders method) and for OE I use tradevec. I have no intentions at present to use atrader as my main charting platform, but I see value on the shark system for learning and confirming one's understanding as signals are triggered and one observes volume, price, cumm delta, etc.

I am attaching some screen captures of tick charts with delta... the chrats are 500/1500/4500, as I follow some of the methods of Barry Taylor's (emini-watch.com) as well.. I will post other markets when I have a chance as well as a report of trade signals, etc.

I will say the following about the system so far, after watching it for 2 days, I prefer it to EOTPRO... both in terms of price.. $199 per month with a current intro offer of $299 for 3 months... and learning ability...

EOTPRO is extremely blackbox and I just cant learn anything from how the signals are generated, or can even attempt to extrapolate by reading the comments from their developers and past developers.. so when compared to $350 USD vs. $199 USD and I can plot the signals against the other indi's that I base my trades on and compare what my decision would have been and what the signal generated, I find shark to be better. just my personal opinion, as we are all entitled to it.

I think atrade is good overall if you want to use delta and market profile.. but as a charting/trading platform it has ways to go... those who love NT will argue for NT, those who love TS will argue for TS, those who love MarketDelta for MD, and those who love MC for multicharts.. I have tried them all, and I can say that I prefer MC for strategies, but I like MD for VB/MP.. but for discretionary trading I like tradevec/r-trader for Order Entry.. I know I might be offending a few.. I should mention that I am licensed for NT, it is just too unstable for me and it sucks on 64bit.. but b20 was a huge improvement overall. The point of my comments is to not focus on the trading platform, but rather the system, as one can have the system running on another Computer or a VM while charting/order entry is on separate system and platform overall.

and now, the charts...

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  #3 (permalink)
 futurestrader1 
New York City, USA
 
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I never met anyone that made money with EOTPro....yes way too black box!

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  #4 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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sysot1t View Post
..given I am studing fulcrum traders method).. I follow some of the methods of Barry Taylor's (emini-watch.com) as well.. I..

and now, the charts...

sounds like you trying learn many methods at the same time. It is the same as having multiple indicators on 1 chart they may look good but often in conflict when it comes to decision time.

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  #5 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


cory View Post
sounds like you trying learn many methods at the same time. It is the same as having multiple indicators on 1 chart they may look good but often in conflict when it comes to decision time.

I believe that all methods have validity, some of them are complimentary vs. complete opposites augmenting each other, and someone can always take away and incorporate pieces from those methods studied and into their own method.

from emini-watch I have learned about SR, MTF, and divergence ... and that is why I use the sinewave_jma indi and better mom ... I would like to say that I understand better_proam, I still put it up as an indication of trade size which is what I believe it to be of value to me as I believe program trading algo's can indeed execute low contracts sizes in very rapid sequence and as such the trade size is not always an indication IMO of who is at work, hence why I like to understand CVD with the way fulcrum does it... that helps me understand volume flow better... and lastly, MP is what I am studying and trying to understand better which will also aid me on my understanding of the markets, auction process, value analytics, SR, etc.

money and risk management, I have learned from reading other's experiences and seeing where, how and what lead to their failures; from books, from this forum and others like traderslab and some obscure ones, and just from plain common sense at times as to things one should not do, period.

am I doing the same thing as placing tons of indicators on a chart? nope, I am attempting to understand the markets from all angles absorbing as much information as possible to better my trading... unlike looking at all methods, not learning anything from anyone and just moving on to the next method before I even spend lots of time studying one method... to me, at the end of the day, a good understanding of the markets and how they function along with risk/money management and discipline is what makes a good trader, and as such I study those methods that actually focus on an aspect of a market vs. on teaching me how to use an indicator.

I doubt very much those that are making a living off trading futures full time are not continously learning and studying other methods to see what they can incorporate within their own method/system to better or simplify it. I believe Adaptability is the key to survival. Perhaps I am wrong on my assumptions, but that is what I believe.

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  #6 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


futurestrader1 View Post
I never met anyone that made money with EOTPro....yes way too black box!

the concept is what drives people to it I think... the thought that your trading probabilities are being determined by a neural net(AI) might give some comfort to those who dont want to learn about the markets and due their homework... regardless, it is a huge black box...

I would much rather build my own adaptive auto trading system with something like neuroshell or neurosolutions, or even biocomp's dakota... things we can afford at a retail level and at least I will know the rules that go into it and then adapt them when something does not work.. vs. EOTPRO that just spews signals.

Dont take me wrong, eminishark is a closed system, but thus far I have had far better communications with the developer when asking questions (and I ask a lot of them since I am a curious person) and he has responded quickly even with the time difference... which to me is a great thing...

When I have asked questions on the room at EOTPRO as to what an indi does or what is it operating on or heck, if they are any documents explaining what each settings does.. the answer has been a brief "no" and then I am usually ignored... just my experience, I dont know what others might have experienced with EOT, but I rather not focus on it and instead discuss this new system.

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  #7 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

here is the remainder of the afternoon... please note that I include all data on my charts, including overnight.. I like to see what happened overnight...

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  #8 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

volume charts for those that like to trade with them... 1000v, 3550v, 7500v... those who use kwikpop might be interested on the 3550v and 7500v chart.. again, all data on the charts...

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  #9 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

minute charts, 5,15, 60... I dont personally trade off minute charts.. so I had not volume delta history that I could show, hence why not showing... I will create all the charts and keep them running gathering the data.

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  #10 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


I will post tomorrow some range charts, as well as other instruments... I am thinking about what should cover most people...

YM, NQ, TF, CL, 6E

if you would like to see others (as long as you can find the symbol within DTNIQ CME/ICE) I can post them as well.

if you want to see specific charts, please ensure to specify the bar type(time/tick/volume/range) and periodicity... and I will try to reply within 24-36 hours..

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  #11 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

more charts...

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  #12 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

NQ current session

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  #13 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

CL 2.5R current session

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  #14 (permalink)
 AR01 
CA
 
Experience: Beginner
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I appreciate you posting this information. I'm always interested in seeing what the vendors sell.

Are you making money or have you just started?

Also, how do they recommend you filter the arrows. You can't take them all from what I see or you would be whipsawed out of an account.

Andrew

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  #15 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


AR01 View Post
I appreciate you posting this information. I'm always interested in seeing what the vendors sell.

Are you making money or have you just started?

Also, how do they recommend you filter the arrows. You can't take them all from what I see or you would be whipsawed out of an account.

Andrew

I am monitoring the system over the next few weeks to understand it better and see, as you said, where there might be conflicting info with false signals... i.e. counter trades above the 34EMA line with no significant delta vol that generate arrows .... I might use those arrows for exits, and not necessarily for reversing, as I monitor the higher time frame trend and signals..

I also wanted to do it the retarded monkey style on a lower time frame.. meaning, I take all signals and manage the trades with PT/SL and reversals to see what it does ...

The goal is to possibly trade it in about 3-4 weeks, or if I gain confidence on the system, much sooner... I don't really do simm personally, given that order execution is not realistic on simm, it does come close on tradevec, but still.. hard to simulate accurate fills I think... I normally set aside certain amount of my testing account and trade 1 contract at 1:1 Risk/Reward ratio and cap it at $1K overall loss worst case ...

that way I test my understanding and protect my testing capital.. and then If successful, I continue to trade there until I am 100% confident on the system and have seen it work for a few months.. then I trade it on my larger account with daily goals and once reached I don't trade that account anymore for the day to avoid over trading...

that is my method so far(it has evolved from where it started long ago), some people might find it overkill as it implies risking capital upfront, but it is what works for me and it protects me as it fits what I am comfortable with. Case in point, EOTPRO never made it past the testing account phase and it only broke even for the most part.. and only because I changed the money management rules to capture less ticks and not what their system suggested.. I looked into automating it, but NCEP is only NT7 only and I am more familiar with EL on MC/TS for strategies... so I never truly pursued it. I am told by someone else who tried it that it was still a money loser automated.

oh, lastly... my market direction bias is now-a-days being set by looking at the traders and commodities almanac... ... I started consulting it a few months ago and I find to be of use within my trading for overall market bias IMHO...

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  #16 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

overnight and morning sessions on 4750v bars...

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  #17 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

AFT SESSION...

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  #18 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

I will only post going forward once a day at the end of the session.. or when I get home.

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  #19 (permalink)
 max-td 
Frankfurt
 
Experience: Intermediate
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hm, i dont know if it makes sense just to post + post all those charts.
me personaly, i have no idea what its good for without any comments or more expalination what to look at or how this can be used.

but maybe thats only me ....

max-td
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  #20 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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but..but it looks so pretty.

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  #21 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


max-td View Post
hm, i dont know if it makes sense just to post + post all those charts.
me personaly, i have no idea what its good for without any comments or more expalination what to look at or how this can be used.

but maybe thats only me ....

you have a valid point, to some extend ... I guess I should explain it, but I thought it would be self explanatory as well.

The system is simple, solid arrows mean strong signal, hollow, not so strong... red - down, green - up... what else is there? keep in mind that it is closed, so I have no idea what the developer is using to generate its signals.. and I am personally still trying to figure out the level of accuracy by looking at my own setup (CVD/BB/EMA/SR) to figure out on my own why the system generated the signal, and if I agree with it.. each individual depending on what indicators he/she bases his evaluation will see something different or have a different reason for following a signal...

I am including a 34EMA and a Delta Volume on the charts, which should help you analyze it... and match it on your own platform charts... whatever that might be...

I will draw an analogy to EOTPRO... Bill takes all "green arrows" only... and ignores all rest and still on the green arrows he uses a great deal of discretion to enter and not chase a trade. I dont think any system overall is any different in terms of "signal generation" ... it is up to one to evaluate those signals based on understanding and matching them to other things (volume/price/market internals) to see/understand why the system generated the signal and then either gain confidence, or just trade the signals blindly like most people do with EOTPRO and claim to make money.

I will take a crack at explaining things next week as I continue to evaluate the system, but please realize that each individual should draw their own conclusions by looking at the charts and doing their own analysis... I am not the seller of this system, and I have no direct interest on it.. I find it interesting and useful and I figure I share it with others who like me might be seeking and aid on their trading as they learn.. nothing else.

Also, when I do trade this live, I will generate a journal and post then why I took the signals and executed the trades... by then I hope to have enough understanding of the system.

I will also make it simple for others... if there is on value to the rest looking and evaluating the charts, then let me know and I wont post them any more. They dont take long to post, but if no-one gets any value, I would certainly spend that time more wisely reading about other things that will help me improve my trading.

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  #22 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009


cory View Post
but..but it looks so pretty.

we dont all have your coding skills to generate our own systems and indi's...

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  #23 (permalink)
 sysot1t 
 
 
Posts: 1,176 since Nov 2009

here are some more charts... this will more than likely be the last until I can add valuable commentary and make the posting more meaningful or I am trading this system if I decide to trade it when I decide to trade it and open up a journal to track failure or success and learn from making that experience public.

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  #24 (permalink)
 max-td 
Frankfurt
 
Experience: Intermediate
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hi + thanks for infos !

i really seems that just posting the charts does not create much responses.
the story will get alive if you do a journal with trades + commentarys about it - i am shure!

its also useful to show how + whre trades should happen in the chart to have an idea whats up here ( making some marks + arrows on it where + why to enter here or there )
thats what brings in action in the topics usualy -- if this is what you want ...

and if there are things & tips folks are able to rebuild this - helps also a lot.



Quoting 
I will take a crack at explaining things next week as I continue to evaluate the system,

looking forward too

max-td
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  #25 (permalink)
 LukeGeniol 
Italy (IT)
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ATAS, R|Trader, NT8
Broker: Rithmic
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I'm interested more to hear how is the ATRADER platform. @sysot1t if u want and have time please post here
Thanks.

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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