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Orderflow ES chat rooms
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Orderflow ES chat rooms

  #1 (permalink)
Whitehall, NY
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS, Market Delta
Broker/Data: Infinity, TOS, IB
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 259 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 379 received

Orderflow ES chat rooms

I'm not sure where to post this but there is so much info on here about order flow but I have yet to find any chat rooms that are analyzing it in real time with much success. Most all speak in generalities or after the fact screen shots. So is there ANYONE who markets education ( Especially for the ES) that can actually trade with orderflow and shows you real time results? I'm not interested in excuses or stories about why this can't be done or it's an art form or blah, blah, blah. I'm looking for someone who actually gets results. Pretty dots and imbalances are cool to see but I'd rather see results and dollar signs. If there is a thread that speaks directly to my inquiry then please direct me there and I apologize for wasting time and causing others effort. It's frustrating to see vendor after vendor pop up without any kind of tradeable track record... I think it's time to crack down and sift through to get to what is real. All this stuff reminds me of the old gold rush stories....You're gonna get rich by finding gold but the real money was made by those selling the tools and supplies to those trying to find the gold. Sorry that this probably comes off as offensive and some vendors may get defensive but let's see some real results from the people peddling the product as the trades unfold.

Volt

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  #2 (permalink)
Quick Summary
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Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.

 
  #3 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
 
Posts: 23 since May 2018
Thanks: 8 given, 9 received


I second this.

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  #4 (permalink)
Quebec
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker/Data: AMP/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,865 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,457 given, 4,917 received

Higher High, Higher Low = order flow is long
Lower High Lower Low = order flow is short.

Is that short and sweet enough?


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  #5 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
 
Posts: 23 since May 2018
Thanks: 8 given, 9 received

Muhaha. I wish it was that easy!

On a side note, I had tried Bob's Veritas Futures trading room for a month. He uses order flow to trade. He does show his DOM with live account each time he takes trades. He trades like 20 instruments. The only problem was, when he would get in after buyers / sellers stack and imbalance gets created, he would start 'hoping' the trade worked, especially after it started to lose the grip. This in my mind is not a good thing because hope doesn't work here. Only your edge works.

Right @trendisyourfriend?

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  #6 (permalink)
Whitehall, NY
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: TOS, Market Delta
Broker/Data: Infinity, TOS, IB
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 259 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 123 given, 379 received

you don't mention an answer to my questions but your answer says it all I guess! They just don't exist and all this orderflow talk and tape reading, footprints, bookmap, jigsaw etc , etc is just a mirage......more snake oil.....funny how there is no shortage of people that buy into it without any trade results.
trendisyourfriend View Post
Higher High, Higher Low = order flow is long
Lower High Lower Low = order flow is short.

Is that short and sweet enough?



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  #7 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Favorite Futures: E-mini ES S&P 500
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 47,779 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 30,462 given, 90,620 received

Nice to see you back
trendisyourfriend View Post
Higher High, Higher Low = order flow is long
Lower High Lower Low = order flow is short.

Is that short and sweet enough?


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  #8 (permalink)
New York
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: mt4
Favorite Futures: gold
 
Posts: 4 since Nov 2019
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

Great

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  #9 (permalink)
Atlanta, GA USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: InvestorR/T, Bookmap
Favorite Futures: ES, CL
 
GoldLinx's Avatar
 
Posts: 21 since Jul 2018
Thanks: 6 given, 91 received

The difficulty in "teaching" orderflow is similar to trying to write a book about how to play football.

Obviously in football there are plays (setups if you will), formations (chart patterns), and an overall game-plan (perhaps higher time-frame context). But if you have ever played a sport, you know, that is not how the game is played. There are numerous variables and factors at play when between the whistle.

So how would you go about teaching a football player, how to build his intuition during the game and amidst a particular play? Having played sports at a high level myself, I can tell you that game experience is really the differentiation when it comes to on-field intuition. In sports you build subconscious pattern recognition, over hundreds to thousands of hours. The best players in the world are not only talented physically, but talented in terms of availability of their focus. Is it crazy to think trading is similar?

Orderflow is NOT a setup, its a read. Again to make a football example, the PLAY is the setup, order flow is when the QB looks at the free-safety in the middle of the field and knows he wants to throw the out route. But remember, no team sends a QB in and says make up a play based on what you feel like the defense is about to do.

Even the people I know scalping for ticks, still have some sort of pattern they use or will only be involved during the highest volume times etc. There is no system where you just pick inflections in the market over and over again all day at will. Even the oh so scary "algos" are not doing that.

To answer your question about Order Flow vendors, honestly most educational sales people go the route of teaching chart patterns and indicators. Because it's so simple that everyone believes they can pick it up tomorrow and make money. It's not as lucrative to tell someone they will need to watch the market for months without impulsively entering the trades just so "see" if perhaps they've developed a very small edge.


Volt View Post
you don't mention an answer to my questions but your answer says it all I guess! They just don't exist and all this orderflow talk and tape reading, footprints, bookmap, jigsaw etc , etc is just a mirage......more snake oil.....funny how there is no shortage of people that buy into it without any trade results.

With that being said, several of these tools you've listed I have personally used with success.

First, "tape reading" which is absolutely not "snake oil" and also completely free for you to begin looking at, is just observing the DOM and Time&Sales at these potentioal inflection points that you should have outlined in your pre-market.

I personally use Footprint charts as my PRIMARY source of analysis intraday. I also use bookmap, but honestly, I'm pretty confident I could execute my edge with just the footprint chart, volume profile, and regular candle stick charts. With no other tools or indicators or anything on my charts.

Also, I can confidently recommend the Footprint course, by Barrett Brannigan from Axia Futures. In fact, Axia Futures puts out enough free content on YouTube you could become pretty dangerous with just that alone. Additionally, I can't say definitively that Peter Davies at Jigsaw makes money trading the markets, but he sounds legit enough to me that you could definitely grab some ideas from him for you to test out yourself. I wouldn't worry so much on someone's exact profitability, more on their overall reputation and longevity in the game. Watch people's free content, if you have marinated on that for a month or two and still like what you see, then perhaps consider the purchase of a course. Even when getting ideas from a profitable trader, you will most likely not be able to trade them in the same nuanced way, take other's setups and dress them with your own rules and parameters, test that on sim, make tweaks, test it live, make tweaks.

Honestly man, orderflow is a tough one and if you want to learn it you will probably need to be content with piecing together information from several sources and learning based on your own experiences. But hey, that's actually trading.

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  #10 (permalink)
Jacksonville
 
Trading Experience: None
Platform: Charles Schwab
Favorite Futures: SSF
 
Posts: 11 since Aug 2017
Thanks: 3 given, 6 received


Ross from Warrior trading records some of his trades so you can see t&s & L2 but itís pretty hard to see bc itís so small. Personally, and Iíve been doing this less time than others, I feel this is the exact reason for simulator time. At first it may seem like a mystery but over time, especially if youíve gotten some sort of primer on it, it becomes self explanatory
.


Best of luck

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