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Day Trade to Win - Atlas Line - Experience?


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Day Trade to Win - Atlas Line - Experience?

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  #1 (permalink)
 Gary 
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Hello,

With all the hype about this, I was curious. What experience do you have with the products/indicators? At what point in your trading career did you make the purchase, and are you still using the products?

I would like to add, I am not in need of any indicators, but more curious about what else we can discover about the products, good and bad.

One more thing, someone just sent me a site they found:
https://tradinglosers.com/forums/big-mikes-day-trading-forum/

Is this from the same people?

Thanks!
Gary

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 David_R 
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Gary View Post
Hello,

With all the hype about this, I was curious. What experience do you have with the products/indicators? At what point in your trading career did you make the purchase, and are you still using the products?

I would like to add, I am not in need of any indicators, but more curious about what else we can discover about the products, good and bad.

One more thing, someone just sent me a site they found:
Big Mike’s Day Trading Forum | Trading Losers

Is this from the same people?

Thanks!
Gary

I seriously doubt it's from the same people because they are upstanding professionals selling lines for $1800.

Oh, my experience is that i bought the At the Open method for $595. I didn't like the size of the stop vs. profit targets so don't use it.

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 David_R 
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Gary View Post
David,

Sounds like you have a positive experience to report, or you are being sarcastic. Can you share more information?

I don't know if it is them, just seems like a big coincidence on the timing of the website.

Thanks,
Gary


I'm being sarcastic. I have nothing to report other than the At the open method I purchased. The ebook for the method was 50 pages long or so , and could have fit on 2 pages. The stop was large compared to the profit targets, so that did not sit well with me. I'd rather not give details to the stop size etc at risk of being sued.

David

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 PandaWarrior 
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I downloaded the first 4 chapters of the ebook which were offered for free. Those 4 chapters were all fluff. Mostly filler that would be on any traders website. If I remember right, very large margins, double spacing, etc....lots of pages, little content.

I've figured out how to spot the potential scams. Things that cost just enough to scare you a bit but not enough you can't afford it. Like $595 and a monthly fee. Affordable but still pricey. My experience is that the good stuff is either free or really expensive.

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 Zoethecus 
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Gary View Post

One more thing, someone just sent me a site they found:
Big Mike’s Day Trading Forum | Trading Losers

Is this from the same people?

Thanks!
Gary

Based on the timing and the fact futures.io (formerly BMT) is the first and so far the only forum to get blasted, I'll say yes, it is the same loser, John Paul.

The domain is registered under a proxy by GoDaddy and so it will take a court order to find out who is the true owner.

I'll be surprised if any of the poor souls who purchased this Assless Line indicator will come forth and admit they were taken.

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  #7 (permalink)
 TraderJesse 
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The Day Trade To Win and Trade Losers websites have an identical CFTC 4.41 discloser paragraph. Nothing out of the ordinary there, that same discloser is found word for word on many sites. But the other 2 disclaimer paragraphs that follow are identical with the exception site and or url names. I haven't been able to find those exact paragraphs on any other site. Also, the 3rd paragraph has a grammar error in the first sentence reading, " ...... for educational purposed only." Shouldn't that be "......for educational purposes only?" Interesting, yes?? I am curious to know if anyone else has seen the other 2 paragraphs anywhere? Maybe I have checked enough websites? Are the other 2 paragraph standards too like the CFTC paragraph or were they created and copied and pasted by perhaps the same individual or just a coincidence?

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 Grace Under Pressure 
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I've used the Atlas Line for most of the year. I find it intriguing as price often bounces off it. I have been curious as to how it is programmed and sorry I missed the removed post. I don't trade based on his guide as there are too many false signals. Overall I believe it has helped my trading as a confirmation for price action taught by Al Brooks. ATO requires too big of s/l to be profitable per his trading guidelines even when using a 10min. chart taking a conservative signal. He also sells a scalping method which is breakeven at best. The Trading Loosers forum is curious. I don't see any other posts besides the one ripping this forum. I'm sure JP makes good money selling his indicators. He always brushes off questions about the Atlas Line saying it is a proprietary indicator and I'm sure he'd like to keep it that way. With just 8 months of experience with it I'm able to make a fairly close guess to where it will start and its direction before it begins to plot, so it is not a surprise to me that someone more sophisticated than I could re-create the script. While JP undoubtedly wants to protect is profit center I'm sure he is aware he has no chance in defending it from duplication. If anyone has a copy of the removed duplication please PM me. He has already made his money from me. I just want to test my theories of its composition.

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 studio88 
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Gary View Post

One more thing, someone just sent me a site they found:
Big Mike’s Day Trading Forum | Trading Losers

Is this from the same people?

Thanks!
Gary


All I can see is immaturity and the desperation of creating a Low Act.

To make matters worst he/they even take out on the Dogs. How pathetic is that. Use gods creatures with pictures Mikes Dogs and not even substantiate why they call everybody losers.

If it is the same person, then they are obviously affected and now appear to be in need of some psychiatric help.


Here is the DNS for anybody needing further findings.

Retrieving DNS records for tradinglosers.com...

DNS servers
ns27.domaincontrol.com
ns28.domaincontrol.com

Answer records
tradinglosers.com SOA server: ns27.domaincontrol.com
email: dns@jomax.net
serial: 2010010300
refresh: 28800
retry: 7200
expire: 604800
minimum ttl: 86400 86400s
tradinglosers.com MX preference: 0
exchange: smtp.secureserver.net 3600s
tradinglosers.com A 173.201.233.1 3600s
tradinglosers.com NS ns27.domaincontrol.com 3600s
tradinglosers.com NS ns28.domaincontrol.com 3600s
tradinglosers.com MX preference: 10
exchange: mailstore1.secureserver.net 3600s

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  #10 (permalink)
 Eric j 
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Grace Under Pressure View Post
I've used the Atlas Line for most of the year. I find it intriguing as price often bounces off it. I have been curious as to how it is programmed and sorry I missed the removed post. I don't trade based on his guide as there are too many false signals. Overall I believe it has helped my trading as a confirmation for price action taught by Al Brooks. ATO requires too big of s/l to be profitable per his trading guidelines even when using a 10min. chart taking a conservative signal. He also sells a scalping method which is breakeven at best. The Trading Loosers forum is curious. I don't see any other posts besides the one ripping this forum. I'm sure JP makes good money selling his indicators. He always brushes off questions about the Atlas Line saying it is a proprietary indicator and I'm sure he'd like to keep it that way. With just 8 months of experience with it I'm able to make a fairly close guess to where it will start and its direction before it begins to plot, so it is not a surprise to me that someone more sophisticated than I could re-create the script. While JP undoubtedly wants to protect is profit center I'm sure he is aware he has no chance in defending it from duplication. If anyone has a copy of the removed duplication please PM me. He has already made his money from me. I just want to test my theories of its composition.

Intriguing yes , magical - no . Ive been tracking down all the youtube and recorded info by jonpaul the past few days and the Aline method isnt anything more than a logical concept based on closing prices and dicipline . Pull up youtube and Aline and study whats going on there . A CLOSE below a bullish pinbar is pretty bearish and a CLOSE above a bearish pinbar is pretty bullish . Put a " line " above a bearish bar or a line below a bullish bar and keep your $1800 in your pocket . JP is a scalper and his demonstrations show him ( or her , dont like to discriminate ) clipping a few ticks at a time - typical " educator " fodder .

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  #11 (permalink)
BillK58
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I've never purchased a thing from DayTradeToWin, but from my experience with legal issues such as these, it seems as though we don't have much of a case when it comes to defending the Big Mike Atlas Line versus the trademarked Atlas Line. The product name is the same so Day Trade to Win can contest lost business. Did the vendor contact Big Mike first in order to resolve the issue? Usually that's how the process starts - by communication. Why don't you reach out to the company? It may save you a lawsuit that you can't afford to lose. Are the donations tax deductible in case I want to donate? Also, I would look into any other software included with the Elite Membership that may cause legal issues. This whole thing is rather unfortunate...

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 cory 
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BillK58 View Post
I've never purchased a thing from DayTradeToWin, but from my experience with legal issues such as these, it seems as though we don't have much of a case when it comes to defending the Big Mike Atlas Line versus the trademarked Atlas Line. ...

one thing at a time, lets settle whether or not Atlas Line is a trademark.

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 Gary 
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BillK58 View Post
I've never purchased a thing from DayTradeToWin, but from my experience with legal issues such as these, it seems as though we don't have much of a case when it comes to defending the Big Mike Atlas Line versus the trademarked Atlas Line. The product name is the same so Day Trade to Win can contest lost business. Did the vendor contact Big Mike first in order to resolve the issue? Usually that's how the process starts - by communication. Why don't you reach out to the company? It may save you a lawsuit that you can't afford to lose. Are the donations tax deductible in case I want to donate? Also, I would look into any other software included with the Elite Membership that may cause legal issues. This whole thing is rather unfortunate...

Hey Bill,

You can find all of the details on the issue here:


Gary

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 max-td 
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cory View Post
one thing at a time, lets settle whether or not Atlas Line is a trademark.


right - that must be the start.
that decides the direction IF there will be any action / direction ever.

also for all should be clear : who ever we are talking about here - we can be shure that THATone reads it too.
so stay cool, stay fair, stay leagal & stay without giving someone a reason to fight you.

max-td
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 fluxsmith 
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BillK58 View Post
... but from my experience with legal issues such as these, it seems as though we don't have much of a case when it comes to defending the Big Mike Atlas Line versus the trademarked Atlas Line...

Except that algorithms are neither patentable nor copyrightable. So yes, if 'Atlas Line' is trademarked then an indicator here that does the same thing cannot be named 'Atlas Line'. However, it can say in the description that "this indicator displays similar values to Atlas Line (tm)"

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BillK58
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Thanks Gary.

Max-td - yes, I'm aware there are other eyes glancing at this page. If this guy is pursuing legal action with a DMCA takedown notice, it's not the kind of thing one initiaties without having a legal trademark / copyright and the funds to pursue litigation. The copyright to the Atlas Line is actually referenced in the letter Gary linked to - 85102596 / 1-459266111. Remember, requiring an Elite / paid Membership for potential trademarked / copyrighted material is a touchy matter. I would take a look at what else you have under the Elite Membership that may be copyrighted - I'd hate to see a good site like this be pulled down.

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 cory 
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BillK58 View Post
Thanks Gary.

Max-td - yes, I'm aware there are other eyes glancing at this page. If this guy is pursuing legal action with a DMCA takedown notice, it's not the kind of thing one initiaties without having a legal trademark / copyright and the funds to pursue litigation. The copyright to the Atlas Line is actually referenced in the letter Gary linked to - 85102596 / 1-459266111. Remember, requiring an Elite / paid Membership for potential trademarked / copyrighted material is a touchy matter. I would take a look at what else you have under the Elite Membership that may be copyrighted - I'd hate to see a good site like this be pulled down.

you seem to be a very helpful fella can you search for the said trademark?
Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)

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 aslan 
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Hmmm, thats kind of interesting, no search results come up for either the copyright or the trademark. Maybe I don't know where to look.

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  #19 (permalink)
 sam028 
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BillK58 View Post
...
Remember, requiring an Elite / paid Membership for potential trademarked / copyrighted material is a touchy matter. I would take a look at what else you have under the Elite Membership that may be copyrighted - I'd hate to see a good site like this be pulled down.

AFAIK, there is no trademarked/copyrighted material in the Elite section.
We have a strict policy on this, and when we saw copyrighted material posted (copyrighted ebooks for examples), or links to copyrighted material, they have been promptly removed (and the user was informed to avoid this).

Any copyrighted content can be reported using the report button, and we'll take care of it.

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 sharky 
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i thought almost everyone took existing indicators or code snippets and ran with it to make it better or function like said person thinks it should, ive took others work and added to it and others have taken my work and added to it almost every indicator from every different platform is shared from one trader to the next and built better or as said programmer thinks is better, but i guess day trade to win is speacial...sharky

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  #21 (permalink)
 Zoethecus 
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This whole drama is a tempest in a teapot.

John Paul drew first blood with a flyer to see if Mike would simply cave in and get on down the road with his tail between his legs. Hopefully, Mike will slam the door on this vermon and rebut. To do otherwise would set a very bad precedent and empower other con artists who hawk garbage for high prices to think that all forum operators are fair game and wimps to boot.

If Mike holds his ground, JP will fade into the vendor sunset and have to try to get even will his assine new website. JP, welcome to dry hump heaven with that new site.

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 futurestrader1 
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But hey! Oscar Griffin from the Pacific Northwest--a Lakers Fanboy--, as per video testimonial, says the stuff is great!

Big Mike...hold ground and have HIM pay all court fees in the end.



Zoethecus View Post
This whole drama is a tempest in a teapot.

John Paul drew first blood with a flyer to see if Mike would simply cave in and get on down the road with his tail between his legs. Hopefully, Mike will slam the door on this vermon and rebut. To do otherwise would set a very bad precedent and empower other con artists who hawk garbage for high prices to think that all forum operators are fair game and wimps to boot.

If Mike holds his ground, JP will fade into the vendor sunset and have to try to get even will his assine new website. JP, welcome to dry hump heaven with that new site.


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 atata 
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I've got 3 emails from DTTW, first email stating that here is end of the world since ATO won't be sold anymore beyond end of July 2010.
Second email to extending the sale because of the "overwhelming requests".
3rd one after the original deadline /July 31st/ and than extended deadline /Aug 2nd/ stating ATO is for sale....
?again? I've expected more imagination such as at least using a different name... not the same.

More details quoted from DTTW emails below:

1st email: July 22th an email that ATO sales will expire end of July. "You probably heard, our At The Open (ATO) method is about to meet its quota of traders and will no longer be available after this month (July 2010)."

2nd email: Aug 2nd another email ATO sales are extended for 24 hours because of "Due to the overwhelming requests from people who missed the deadline to buy the ATO, "

3rd email: Aug 10th the latest email with ATO is for sale.

"Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for your interest in the Atlas line.

The Atlas line has many uses for day traders, scalpers, trend confirmations, etc.

We create easy tools for traders!

Our next Live Atlas Line Trading Presentation will be held in the next week or so and will allow you to test this great method on ANY MARKET with me, in Real-Time.

This presentation will offer you a view at John Paul's trading screens, with the Atlas line applied on 4-5 markets concurrently. You will experience the Atlas line performing live in front of your eyes, and this is FREE of charge.
"

end the usual blah blah blah + desclaimer

Kind regards,

atata
ps.; Crossed out my name since I do not want to loose out on the emails he is sending... it is sort of entertaining and also very saddening how John Paul is working.

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 wirechild 
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I purchased ATO a while ago. At the time he posted daily results that look legit to me. Soon after purchasing it I realized his results were not accurate.

A) Some of his winners went more than 5 ES points (several were 6.5) against him before turning into winners, this is fine except his results reported all of his losers to be 5 points!

B) His results never had any slippage, it was not unusual for me to get 1-4 ticks on my losers and he never had any.

C) He always got filled and there were several winners that I didn't get filled on. I know it is possible he was very lucky and got filled most of the time, but I doubt it would happen every single time.

Once I pointed out these items he would not return my emails. I think I sent him over 30 emails proving he wasn't honest with his results. He also stop posting daily results around this same time...

I threatened to take legal action and would have if it didn't cost so much money. I first tried to go through small claims court and they required me to file my claim in person and in the state in which JP operates his business. Not worth for what I paid.

There was one very positive experience that came from this. I have not purchased another "system" and I am so much better off now.

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 aviat72 
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That site listed in the first post is really in poor taste.

And it makes insinuations about board members like FatTails, perryg etc which are completely unfounded. I am attaching a copy of the site as it stands now. Will be good proof for anyone who wants sue this charlatan for libel.

BTW the USPTO does show that Atlas Line is a trademark. However it seems it was filed on August 7, 2010. So all the posts prior to that do not violate that trademark.

Attached Thumbnails
Day Trade to Win - Atlas Line - Experience?-bmtlibel.pdf   Day Trade to Win - Atlas Line - Experience?-atlaslinetrademark.pdf  
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 sam028 
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CWchang Forex Trader
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I saw this guy too trading live on paltalk a total disaster .
Like many too the ebook is empty total waste of pages.

I posted one for HFT Fari Hamzei good stuff for the price but you will not learn anything besides the free online material

CW

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 zacharydw00 
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I have used both methods, and build automated strategies with multiple profit targets and adjustable s/l settings to fully optimize the back-testing. On ten years of ES data, the equity curve is a steady slope down.

Bottom line, don't waste your time.

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 Java 
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wirechild View Post
I purchased ATO a while ago. At the time he posted daily results that look legit to me. Soon after purchasing it I realized his results were not accurate.

A) Some of his winners went more than 5 ES points (several were 6.5) against him before turning into winners, this is fine except his results reported all of his losers to be 5 points!

B) His results never had any slippage, it was not unusual for me to get 1-4 ticks on my losers and he never had any.

C) He always got filled and there were several winners that I didn't get filled on. I know it is possible he was very lucky and got filled most of the time, but I doubt it would happen every single time.

Once I pointed out these items he would not return my emails. I think I sent him over 30 emails proving he wasn't honest with his results. He also stop posting daily results around this same time...

I was able to get a copy of ATO and found his daily results similarly falsified. When questioned, he came up with alternate rules not in the instructions to justify the trades. Don't bother with this one.

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  #30 (permalink)
slow to learn
PUEBLO COLORADO USA
 
 
Posts: 5 since Oct 2010
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Gary, I feel indicators are a wast of time and hold traders back from learning how to trade. I spent 1 1/2 years using indicators when I should have been learning price action and supply and demand or support and resistance. The only indicators I use is a volume up and down and a 21 and 50 ema. You have to know how smart money thinks! I didnt become profitable untile I learned this.

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  #31 (permalink)
 zacharydw00 
Idaho
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader,ToS
Broker: Amp Futures, ToS
Trading: ES, E7, CL, GC
 
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Posts: 145 since Aug 2009
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I have used both methods, and built automated strategies of both the ATO method and the Atlas Line, with multiple profit targets and adjustable s/l settings to fully optimize the back-testing. On ten years of ES data, the equity curve is a steady slope down.. I think I posted my results on T2W a long time ago.

At the time I was using the ATO ind. it had bugs in the code. I sent JP an email explaining the bugs and how to fix them. In response, he was kind enough to give me a free seat at the next Atlas Line webinar (which he charges for). The Atlas Line is very subjective, unlike the mechanical ATO method.

Bottom line, don't waste your time or money. I was burned

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  #32 (permalink)
MDuzy
new york, NY, usa
 
 
Posts: 2 since Nov 2010
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Have you ever traded simultaneously two markets like QM (crude emini) and CL (crude) opposite directions? So for example short QM and long CL at the same entry value.
That eliminates "the market turn around issue" just after entering position. Balance between them is always zero lose/profit except cost of the commission. Than watch the trend, relax and if it is good and stable, exit the one going not in the market direction, keep the proper one for a moment and take a profit.
Just a though from a green trader, Iím just doing demo for 1 month. Experience- losing.
Duzy

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  #33 (permalink)
 zacharydw00 
Idaho
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader,ToS
Broker: Amp Futures, ToS
Trading: ES, E7, CL, GC
 
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Posts: 145 since Aug 2009
Thanks: 87 given, 172 received

No. I'd rather not double my commission cost. Although, that is a strategy used by "bigger players" to protect their overall portfolio when the market is at an inflection point such as now.

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