From School of Trade website about James and Ninja Trader:
The root of SchoolOfTrade.com/SidewaysMarkets.com can be traced back to the earliest promotional efforts of NinjaTrader Brokerage/Ecosystem. In fact, for several years, NinjaTrader Brokerage/Ecosystem was the feature promoter for SchoolOfTrade.com/SidewaysMarkets.com.
Ninjatrader Brokerage/Ecosystem exposed their prospective customers, numbering the thousands, directly into the arms of these scam artists.
Some readers might be thinking to themselves…”Oh, there he goes again, picking on NinjaTrader”. Maybe I am being unfair. But in the past 2+ years of writing reviews of trading educators, the reoccurring theme is that the overwhelming majority of trading scams are originating from the direct promotional efforts of NinjaTrader Broker/Ecosystem. Sorry folks. But that is just the reality.
Until someone starts calling out NinjaTrader Ecosystem/Brokerage, they are going to continue with their terribly irresponsible promotionalal behavior.
A statement labelled as "fact" that is just completely false. The fact is that this vendor was never listed on ninjatraderecosystem.com. NinjaTrader never promoted them.
There is a big problem with folks who claim to be "trading site reviewers"...
They go in for a day or two into the thing, for a couple of hours, and come out with "tons of experience" with the place.
This is patently wrong. You have to spend a few years inside the bowels of a trading site, day in and day out, to finally understand what they are all about. You can't get the gist of a place with a few hours over a couple of days attending.
This is basic common sense. Have we all lost common sense? Eeek.
Hrmmm. You could probably do that if one could get a legitimate copyright claim on his vids that fall outside of the Fair-Use clause of the Copyright Act of 1976.
I'd like to think that anyone that unfairly slanders a corporation or image or whatever would be exempt from that clause.
Shortly after I joined school of trade (closes eyes and cringes internally) I wrote an email to ninjatrader asking them why they did not have JJ as a vendor/contributor and was told that they were not familiar with that vendor.
I wanna say that was in 2011/2012
Interpret that however you want, but it was one of the first things that tipped me off to something smelling a little scammy with this guy; so I don't think ninja is to blame for anything relating to this particular case.
However, cough, cough, I could suggest a few more vendors you should probably not be familiar with...
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Whilst I agree that trading is a long term proposition, a few days is enough to provide a flavour of the said trading room.
You can tell very quickly if there is a) any trading going on and b) if it is just an infomercial for additional products or services.
And what we shouldn’t forget is this. Emmett requests that the vendor provide redacted trading statements to prove that they are actually trading LIVE in the first place. 99.9% of them can’t even provide a single day of verifiable evidence.
So whether they are selling a trading room, an indicator or a system. If there is no proof there is actual trading happening then that can be determined very quickly.
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You should not have to spend a "few years" in a trading room to figure out if it is fake. Common sense usually gives you the answer very quickly. Heck, with most of these knucklehead vendors, you don't even have to go in the room to know they are slinging manure.
My motto: "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is."
Be very skeptical of EVERY vendor. Assume they are frauds, unless they can prove otherwise. Most people do the exact opposite - they assume the vendors are real, and then ignore the fraud signs.
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I agree. Spending a few years on a website to see if it's fake is unnecessary (and downright financially dangerous) as with most dodgy websites as Kevin points out you can easily read the signs for fraud.
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I guess once something is posted into CyberSpace, it never actually goes away.
@NinjaTrader - I guess you will have to admit defeat on this one. It may not have been listed on ninjatraderecosystem.com but School of Trade was certainly listed as an "Education Partner" at some point.
And I quote "The world’s leading trading education providers use NinjaTrader. No compromises. They demand the best and NinjaTrader delivers."
Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of NinjaTrader trading platform (NT8 bumps and all) and have been using NT since 2009. But you really have to introduce a much more in depth background check and vetting process. Your decision tree on whether to list a vendor/educator needs a serious overhaul. You are getting a bad rap here. IMO I would stop with immediate effect until you can roll out something that people can begin to trust, because right now they really don't.
Do you receive any compensation from vendors listed as “Education Partners” or listed on the EcoSystem?
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Clearly I was wrong, in fact they were listed on our website for a period of time. I am looking into this since I sincerely thought they were never listed.
Improving how vendors are listed and continually audited has been a high priority project for us over the last few months. I appreciate the concerns raised by members of the forum and know that I take this very seriously. As a result, our improved process will be more transparent and public communications more frequent.
No, we do not.
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The fact these guys were listed as a trusted partner by both Ninjatrader and Mirus Futures (since acquired by Ninjatrader in June 2014) did have a big impact on my (stupid) decision to join schooloftrade.com. Being listed as a trusted partner by two respected organisations lent schooloftrade.com some considerable credibility that they clearly did not deserve. I am sure others can fill in the blanks but my understanding is that Joseph Dufresne used a connection at Mirus Futures well to enjoy this status.
In retrospect, yes I agree, I should not have typed years. I suppose a few weeks would suffice. But my point was not about seeing if they were "fake", but the totality of the experience. My bad in choice of timeframe.
Gotcha. I guess you could theoretically learn from some of these guys, maybe some things to do, but really what not to do. And maybe that would make it worth whatever cost.
But most of these bonehead vendors talk a good game, yet cannot trade their way out of a paper bag. That to me is a big deal.
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I would encourage everyone to get on the CFTC email list. Also, they have a Whistle blower program. As Big Mike has repeatedly said, Buyer Beware of any trading room. There performance on their site means nothing. Jody DuPont had 2 futures accounts. Both in the red. 98% of trading rooms are a joke.
I would love to work for the CFTC...
The Market is Smarter than You Are
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Not a bad idea, but this thread has highlighted an interesting dilemma for the industry, why the hell would any decent person want to get into the training business considering all they are up against?
Those that can't do, teach is the old maxim. Traders who can trade extremely well have *zero interest in polluting their lives with crybaby beginners unless they really really love the sound of their own voice. Why? they are rich. I do well for myself and I keep a separate office to my apartment, 10 minutes away, so my own girlfriend does not bother me while I'm working during the week. I don't want random new traders under my feet or in my inbox when I'm working.
So there is the rub, the industry needs teachers but mostly anyone honest and a good instructor (but who can't press the button?) does not want to get accused of being a bad person. Lie down with dogs, you get fleas logic. I recall my dad being asked to run for election, he said no immediately simply as he knew he would get in a war with his own political party out of the gate.
Altruistic punishing of bad vendors is good for society however it can create a lack of supply into which the low grade dodgy guys move/exploit maybe? Perhaps some official CFTC exam or other "train the trainer" and background check could help? I'm not sure just thinking out loud.
*except for certain circumstances e.g. I know of one that used it as a way to find staff for his own fund etc. Naive but it sort of worked.
Well we need to break it down to different categories of beginners as people learn differently / start at varying levels.
I needed a school to give me good fundamentals and sit me in class interactively with the live market for x hours a week. I was a complete complete beginner in April 2014. I really did not care if the instructor was making live trades or not, anything was better than what I knew. Support, resistance money management basics and I was off after three months.
Someone else might just need good reference materials.
Its easy to say its all terrible and nobody tries for the beginners but I ran across this recently as I was struggling to decipher an FIO webinar on order flow. Its hard to grasp when your a chart guy.
It is really well broken down (order flow), there are a lot of articles there for their beginners from Optimus and its public anyway.
It would be nice to see more reviews (stars) to sort the better articles but I'd bet they get a lot of traffic and few rate articles until they have a lot of stars already. Darn lurkers.
I'm rushing but there is good stuff and honesty out there. Problem is as a beginner it feels like finding a needle in a haystack.
Edit: Its worse, I bet some beginners look for months and finally ask, ok whats a needle again? Not knowing what you don't know stage sucks.
Part of our job was to stroll through the kitchen at 3am, as part of our regular inspections. You never know what might be going on in the kitchen at 3am.
Well during the day the inmates who were well behaved and there for longer stays made meatloaf for fellow inmates. Sidenote: if you had an aquaintance that was working in the kitchen - y'all prolly wanna give him some extra respect, in case he gives your meatloaf some extra attention.
But at night the rats in the kitchen ate their fill. Biggest rats I ever saw to this day were the ones I encountered on those kitchen walks. In fact it is fair to say that my heart sped up a bit if I knew I had to walk through the kitchen at 3am.
Now today, 30 years later them rats might be a bit bigger.
If i was going to jail for say fraud or sumptin' like that (for defraudin fellow traders), heck I'd think real long an' hard 'bout eatin anything from the kitchen.
1 - Research
Google the hell out of the vendor by digging as deep as you can.
Any doubts - walk.
2 - Brokerage trading statements
Request 3 months of daily brokerage trading statements to be posted on the vendors website, showing the breakdown of all of the trades taken and of course the bottom line ongoing PnL.
Request 3 monthly statements that back up the daily statements posted. Why? So the vendor cannot skip posting a losing day (claiming they didn't trade). If they did this, the monthly statement PnL wouldn't match.
Whilst this could be open to fraud, it would take some effort to mock up a trading statement each and every day detailing every entry and exit.
Any doubts - walk.
3 - Free trial
Request at a minimum 3 to 5 days in the room as a trial. This will give you a chance to evaluate the traders style, risk management and methodology behind entries and exits. The vendor might be profitable but that doesn't mean it fits within your trading profile. Determine if the trading room will be a teaching of his/her method, a following of his/her method or both. And ensure you have a reasonable chance of getting on board the trade that is called or signaled.
Any doubts - walk.
4 - The DOM
Request the DOM is shown on the shared trading screen at all times. If a vendor doesn't want to do this because their trading account number could be shown, they must display Chart Trader as the next alternative.
Any doubts - walk.
5 - Follow
Be diligent. Cross reference all entries and exits that are claimed in the room during your free trial and match them to the daily trading statements that are posted. Just remember LMT order fills in SIM mean diddly squat LIVE.
Any doubts - walk.
6 - Prepare to lose some money
Trade with the aim to shadow the trader you are trying to follow. If you can't keep up and/or get fills, the room just might not be right for you. You should aim to match at least 85-90% of the traders fills.
Any doubts - walk.
7 - Learn to trade yourself without using a Trading Room
Any doubts - walk.
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And this is why that list of criteria is doomed and insisting on statements etc. will often lead to scammers? (or the last step in the list of course)
edit: I mean in a Catch 22 way, as I said before why would a wealthy trader bother teaching?
Most don't need a truly profitable trader to learn off, a smart person who understands can teach a beginner a lot as a mentor.
I got good value from the school I went to but I can't say who they are as I'll be ridiculed blindly I am certain.
The instructor was a past student of the course, he knew the mechanical setups (with context) being taught. He was not a great trader (yet) as he struggled with money problems in his personal life (new baby etc.) but he was open and honest about all of this.
I got a good grounding and someone (several) to bounce ideas off whenever I needed help. FIO had no Scalper's thread or close (Spoos maybe but it seemed unfriendly then) and I was ashamed of my ignorance so shy to bother people.
Some official vetted trainer qualification process might help?
The CFTC do follow up once you file a complaint. I put in a complaint about EminiTradingSchool and I thought it would end up in the vacuum of space and time. It didn't.
Looks like dishonesty catches up with you in the end...
CFTC Charges Colorado Resident Gregory L. Gramalegui, Doing Business as Emini Trading School, with Fraud and Other Violations Involving a Futures Trading System and Advisory Service (
I am also trying to get Brian Heyliger (of SixFigureTrader fame). Still working that one, as well as a few others.
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Sadly this jerk has set up shop in Delaware and web site is
doing the same thing. Someone needs to get him
shut down and put in jail.
CFTC needs to sign up for the Free Trial and get him
In action.
STEP 1. GO TO YOUTUBE AND TYPE IN JOSEPH JAMES
STEP 2. CLICK ON HIS CHANNEL AND CLICK ABOUT
STEP 3. FLAG ICON ON THE RIGHT SIDE HAS A DROP DOWN MENU
STEP 4. REPORT USER
STEP 5. SPAMS AND SCAM
STEP 6. SPAMS/FRAUD
STEP 7. CLICK SUBMIT FOR THE SCHOOLOFTRADE CHANNEL
STEP 8. CLICK ON ANY 5 OF HIS SCAMMY VIDEOS
STEP 9. AT THE BOTTOM PROVIDE ADDITIONAL NOTES AND INCLUDE THE CFTC LINK.
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Done. Let's see if YouTube has the minerals. My bet is no.
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It will work if enough legit people complain. FIO members were able to take down another person's page a couple years ago for making death threats against me for exposing him and his company.
Not sure how many are needed, but right now there are hundreds of people reading this post, just a fraction would likely be enough.
Are also complete complete garbage >>> AND ALSO >>> In the Ninja Trader EcoSystem and they do a TON of WEBINARS.
The Turnover in his room is massive because after a month people realize he is a bullshiter and leave.
Sh_t he does:
Calls off trades and never shows his trades DOM or Chart Trader even though asked a million times repeatedly
he will say he got in at one price and his stop was at another -- then the market reaches that stop price and he says his stop was not hit and that the trade was perfect even though basically everyone in the room lost money
HIS SYSTEM WAS a Bunch of Indicators that are found here on Futures.io FOR FREE !!!! And he goes around saying they are his only.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST: He would go insane if you asked him for proof or anything or questioned him and his "system" in anyway. The guy is fkn INSANE. :O :O :O
There is a REASON WHY he DOES A TON OF WEBINARS FOR NINJA TRADERS "EcoSystem" because he is constantly, completely and routinely >>> losing money and then he needs Ninja Trader's Base to keep paying him the monthly fees.
Ninja Trader loses FACE and CREDIBILITY Every single second that guy is still on their "PARTNER" List!! Thank God they are finally starting to realize that. There is a reason Bloomberg charges $2000+ a month for their terminal. :O Crazy yes.. Over Priced? Yes Definitely but they have nothing but high yield and return indicators on their platform/terminal. If Ninja's starts cracking down and eliminating the crap then it would DEFINITELY get a ton more clients or even be able to charge a bit more for the licences. Both which would be good for the traders because that money would go into R&D or more programmers to finish the platform faster.
Most of you would have by now know that i have been fighting this fight with SOT and JJ for a while as on his You Tube channel, I have left a lot of messages/comments and also have reported JJ to You Tube and yet nothing has been done
Lets all complain about him and lets send him where he belongs
They have no concern for anyone and all his Trade of the Day videos are in market replay.
I urge everyone to take few minutes and complain to You Tube and also those in US to complain to CFTC via phone
According to this, it's a shared server with GoDaddy. So perhaps GoDaddy would be interested in knowing what their customer is up to, and shut off their hosting.
There is the link to GoDaddy's abuse report service. Unfortunately, there is no link for "fraud" but you can still submit a report under another category and make your case, if you want to see this website taken offline.
I reported this to YouTube years ago and they did nothing. They even took my own video warning about SOT down and I had to fight them for weeks to try and get them reinstated, some of my SOT warning videos remain removed to this day. I sent them the recent CFTC notice regarding SOT and they just did nothing once more, all they care about is videos that get clicks and nothing else.
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now here is someone that knows what he is talking about!!
My question is what is "school of trade" doing that is so bad that every other training system hawker isn't doing? It's the same ole bull shit about how "it could go here, or it could go there" and adjust the time frame to retro fit to success.
Call the CFTC and ask them, why don't you tell them they don't know what they are talking about while you are on the call and see what they have to say to you ?
I hold little faith too that YouTube will do something about it, but we can only try. I am not a religious man, but I am an avid believer in karma. Joseph Defresne & Megan Renkow will pay their dues at some point.
How YouTube can continue to let them tout their business is totally and utterly mind boggling.
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I copied the following off of the article on tradingschools for convenience.
"It appears that the cluster of complaints from various individuals triggered an official investigation by the CFTC. What the CFTC uncovered was shocking. The following is a list of bullet points from the official investigation:
The owners of the company were using fake names. There is no Joseph James, or Meghan James. The real owners of the company are a husband and wife team named Joseph Dufresne and Megan Renkow. Currently residing at 1521 Addison Road, Palos Verdes Estates, Ca 90274.
Since 2011, the company has sold at least $2.776 million dollars of trading educational materials and live trading room memberships.
June 2016 through April 2016, the company was averaging $60k per month in sales volume.
The company claimed that purchasers of the $4,999 educational package could expect to recoup those costs within an average of 16 trading days, by simply following the live trades within the trading room.
Joseph Dufresne claimed to have started trading in the year 2000. And after 3 years of successful trading, he opened his first hedge fund in 2003. Claimed to be a “Professional Day Trader” at Vantage Capital Advisors LLC in Los Angeles since 2000.
Claimed to have received an award, “Trader of the Year” in 2001; and was named “Top 30 under 30” by Professional Trader Monthly in 2006.
The CFTC discovered that all of Joseph Dufresne and Meghan Minkow’s claims of performance history were fraudulent, the employment history and hedge funds claims were bogus, and no awards were ever issued.
Furthermore, the CFTC discovered that prior to September 2007, Joseph Dufresne had no trading experience whatsoever.
Prior to September 2007, through 1999, that Dufresne worked as a maintenance worker at a country club, worked the front desk at a fitness center, a student worker at Arizona State University, and a salesman at various mortgage companies. In fact, from November 2007 through October 2008, Dufresne was altogether unemployed.
The CFTC also discovered that Dufresne had been incarcerated for 6-months in 2005, a felony conviction for attempting to sell narcotics in Maricopa County, Arizona.
Joseph Dufresne Trading Performance
Joseph Dufresne claimed to be a hugely profitable day trader. The CFTC discovered that Joseph Dufresne was a terrible day trader. In fact, in a review of his trading records, the CFTC discovered that between September 2007 and April 2016, that Joseph Dufresne was a complete and total failure at trading. His total net losses were over $119k.
A deeper review of his trading records revealed that from December 9, 2014, through July 20, 2015, Dufresne had not placed a single live trade. Yet, his daily marketing materials claimed that he was consistently profitable. During the TradingSchools.Org investigation, we discovered that Joseph Dufresne was using the following spreadsheet as proof of supposed performance. Notice the claims of nearly $500k profits for 2014.
The CFTC’s investigation revealed that Dufresne claimed the following, real money results to purchasers of his trading products:
The CFTC basically told me that members/victims will receive reimbursement pro ratta but only if they win the case and there is money available for the victims. If there is no money available for the victims then (Gene Wilder voice) YOU GET NOTHING!
MOST IMPORTANTLY
If you are a victim you need to submit your information to the CFTC through their complaint form so in the event of an award, Finra can reach out to you to obtain proof that you were a member of SOT and eventually provide you with reimbursement.
Not sure if i'm using all the correct legalese here.
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I was browsing through the Trading Schools site and it sure paints an ugly picture. I notice the CFTC has been on a bit of rampage lately as well, bringing charges against several trading educators. This whole education industry seems to be a giant online boiler room of sorts, down in the dumpster with penny stock promoters.
When I first got interested in trading I had some friends caution me against getting training from internet educators. Saying it seemed sketchy and that I should instead contact verifiable industry professionals for advice. I didn't think it was a problem because the people I followed seemed professional and legit. To that all I can do is laugh. LOL
All you need is this web site. Take the time to see what your style is
And research the blogs and indicators.
There is no Holy Grail or Quick Get Rich. It takes work and time
to become a profitable trader.
Do not trade real money until you can trade SIM with 70-80%
Profitable trades.
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Remember Bernie Madoff? He claimed on 8% yearly return. Had a huge huge following. Was taking in $$$ hand over fist. And at the end of each quarter, he claimed that he closed all his trades. But there wasn't anyone that would admit that they took the other side. In addition, there wasn't any market activity to account for the massive amount of trades that he claimed closed out at the end of each quarter. And all this was beyond the CFTC and SEC.
But the B S gets deeper. Jim Cramer (MadMoney) said that his GPA was to low to for him to get hired by the regulatory agencies. That is, the government only hires the "cream of the crop". I wonder what does the government have on Jim Cramer to blackmail him into saying that?
And Bernie's wife claimed she didn't know what a Ponzi Scheme was. Ivy League education, with expensive private secondary school education, and she doesn't know what a Ponzi Scheme was? More like she knew enough to play dumb.
I am sure this won't keep Joseph Dufresne (a/k/a/ Joseph James) and Megan Renkow (a/k/a Megan James) from popping up again under a different identity. But at least these two fraudsters for now, have been shamed.
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