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Best Order Flow software


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Best Order Flow software

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  #1 (permalink)
Dxbtrader
Dubai, UAE
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
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Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

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  #2 (permalink)
 luisf 
Seattle WA/United States
 
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You should check Jigsawtrading, John Grady (nobsdaytrading) and also the Axia futures videos on their youtube channel.

All of them have a lot of free content specially jigsaw.

Cheers

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  #3 (permalink)
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Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

NinjaTrader has Order Flow Tools - https://ninjatrader.com/Order-Flow-Trading

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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  #4 (permalink)
Dxbtrader
Dubai, UAE
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
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Anyone had any experience with zero trader pro?

Iíll dig in more to Grady and Jigsaw, thanks for this.

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  #5 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
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Bookmap also have a good product. Jigsaw, NoBS and Bookmap have all done webinars here. Some past recordings may only be viewable by Elite Members only but all their websites have a lot of the same webinars listed on them too.
Jigsaw and Bookmap also are both very good at answering questions on their relevant threads in the Trading Reviews and Vendors section on this site (as is Ninjatrader).

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  #6 (permalink)
zqhhzq
toronto
 
 
Posts: 2 since Apr 2016
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I am using ninjatrader 7 why NT7 no such volume indicators?

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  #7 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Switch to NT8, NT7 is very old code base.
zqhhzq View Post
I am using ninjatrader 7 why NT7 no such volume indicators?

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  #8 (permalink)
 Blash 
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zqhhzq View Post
I am using ninjatrader 7 why NT7 no such volume indicators?


Big Mike View Post
Switch to NT8, NT7 is very old code base.

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NT8 has multi-core processing. Order Flow tools use more CPU cycles. NT8 makes much better use of your machine.

It doesn't cost you to move over from NT7.

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  #9 (permalink)
Dxbtrader
Dubai, UAE
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
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Anyone tried investor RT?

Pricing looks a bit high as they charge for everything on a monthly basis only.

But what would be the feedback for IRT? Any good or waster of time?

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  #10 (permalink)
 binaryduke 
London UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, CL, GC, ZB
 
Posts: 34 since Jun 2015


Sierra Chart package 5 is excellent value for getting a Footprint (TM) chart (they call it Numbers Bars), volume profile, market profile, historical market depth (similar to Bookmap), etc. There's a learning curve but all tools require work to learn how to use on a professional basis....

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  #11 (permalink)
 RickW00716 
Richmond Virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
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Posts: 315 since Feb 2013
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I've had several different order flow tools including the one from the infamous scammer Michael Valtos. What I've found is that the tools that come with the lifetime license of NT8 work the best for me.

Now, as to how to use those tools? I personally use the delta per bar on 1 minute Oil charts and look for either continuation or rejection of those bars....especially at key zones

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  #12 (permalink)
 bobw199 
West Palm Beach. Fl
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: NQ
 
Posts: 1 since Sep 2016
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Sierra Charts , Package #5 . With AMP, will cost $25.00 Monthly. Also I follow Trade Pro Academy, they use all these tools exclusively, with very through training.

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  #13 (permalink)
 cleon 
Denver, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 40 since Mar 2011
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define what u want by the term 'order flow'

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  #14 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
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Hands down, Jigsaw. And John Grady as your instructor.

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  #15 (permalink)
 lesterb 
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8
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I would recommend Jigsaw and Gomi's GomOrderFlowPro.
Cheers

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  #16 (permalink)
 GoldLinx 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 23 since Jul 2018
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I use NT8 and some third party orderflow tools called "MZpack", I believe it is from a Russian developer. I purchased the full pack however I only use the footprint and volume profile.

I use the cumulative delta from Gomicators, when you download their free-trial the CD is permanently free

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  #17 (permalink)
 Meklon 
New York, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: RTY, ES, YM, NQ, CL, NG, GC, HG
 
Posts: 60 since Oct 2016
Thanks: 53 given, 178 received


Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others don’t have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and I’ve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.


You are approaching the issue from the wrong end. Or, perhaps, you are forming your question incorrectly. Rather than look for Order Flow Software" and "Support from the company that makes the software" you should focus on the concept of LEARNING the Order Flow and how to apply it and integrate it into your trading. All OF tools are just TOOLS and without solid understanding of what it does and how to use it you will have an equal chance of failing regardless of what OF software you will use. The concept of Order Flow is meant to help trader to analyze market auction by looking at it from the different angle and to use this information to supplement the decision making process. You must know how to read and understand the CONTEXT of the market first before you even get to the Order Flow. This is especially important since you are new to Futures Trading. Also, keep in mind that EVERY futures market you trade is different and ANY Order Flow tool or software needs to be tuned and adjusted for each specific market. What works on ES will not work in CL, etc.

My advice would be to find a solid company (or a private mentor) that provides training for TRADING and uses the OF tools to do that. Once you feel confident that you understand the concept of trading you then may start looking for the right tools to accomplish your goals.

I personally use Sierra Chart Package 5 and will not look at anything else. This is the MOST customizable trading software that exists on the market and the most efficient one for your trading machine. It has all tools you can imagine necessary (including the Order Flow), highly efficient and is written in native C++ which makes it very fast and light on computer resources. The are number of OF packages available for Sierra, the one I use is Emoji Trading. They have everything you may need. However, once again, this is NOT a Holly Grail...you MUST KNOW what you are doing!

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  #18 (permalink)
 egonzalez99 
Bogota Colombia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: tradestation
Trading: forex
 
Posts: 1 since Mar 2012
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Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

Hi I am using this one https://formacion.daytraderprofesional.com/
very professional fully customizable excellent tool,. after trying sierra, NT tools, and Mike Valtos software.
By the way Mike Valtos is very true his software is a scam BUT... his training material are very good in understanding concepts and how to apply them regardless of the softwre tool you want to use.

EdgarG

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  #19 (permalink)
Eric1704
California
 
 
Posts: 14 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 2 given, 12 received

Ninja Trader 8 has good Order Flow Software too.

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  #20 (permalink)
 nateib 
Philadelphia
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, NQ, YM, CL
 
Posts: 2 since May 2018
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Sierra chart is very good for footprint, heatmap, volume profile ect. Monthly fees are very competitive. Easy on the computer.

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  #21 (permalink)
 willis 
Denver, Colorado
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 2 since Jul 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 3 received


Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

OFA (Orderflowanalytics) is great orderflow software.

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  #22 (permalink)
Dxbtrader
Dubai, UAE
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 18 given, 5 received


Meklon View Post
You are approaching the issue from the wrong end. Or, perhaps, you are forming your question incorrectly. Rather than look for Order Flow Software" and "Support from the company that makes the software" you should focus on the concept of LEARNING the Order Flow and how to apply it and integrate it into your trading. All OF tools are just TOOLS and without solid understanding of what it does and how to use it you will have an equal chance of failing regardless of what OF software you will use. The concept of Order Flow is meant to help trader to analyze market auction by looking at it from the different angle and to use this information to supplement the decision making process. You must know how to read and understand the CONTEXT of the market first before you even get to the Order Flow. This is especially important since you are new to Futures Trading. Also, keep in mind that EVERY futures market you trade is different and ANY Order Flow tool or software needs to be tuned and adjusted for each specific market. What works on ES will not work in CL, etc.

My advice would be to find a solid company (or a private mentor) that provides training for TRADING and uses the OF tools to do that. Once you feel confident that you understand the concept of trading you then may start looking for the right tools to accomplish your goals.

I personally use Sierra Chart Package 5 and will not look at anything else. This is the MOST customizable trading software that exists on the market and the most efficient one for your trading machine. It has all tools you can imagine necessary (including the Order Flow), highly efficient and is written in native C++ which makes it very fast and light on computer resources. The are number of OF packages available for Sierra, the one I use is Emoji Trading. They have everything you may need. However, once again, this is NOT a Holly Grail...you MUST KNOW what you are doing!



Thank you, very well thought out response. And I 100% agree that first I should learn the concepts behind order flow. There is so much out there that Iíve got lost, everyone is selling something and it all looks and sounds amazing.

I want to wire my brain, so to speak, the correct way for day trading futures. I had to unlearn somethings to become profitable at swing and portfolio and it took years. I donít want to make those mistakes again. So Iím conscious to get it right from the start. Hope that makes sense.

FIO has helped me a lot, genuinely Iím so grateful for such an amazing community.

Thank you for your response, itís very much appreciated.

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  #23 (permalink)
 Meklon 
New York, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: RTY, ES, YM, NQ, CL, NG, GC, HG
 
Posts: 60 since Oct 2016
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Dxbtrader View Post
Thank you, very well thought out response. And I 100% agree that first I should learn the concepts behind order flow. There is so much out there that Iíve got lost, everyone is selling something and it all looks and sounds amazing.

I want to wire my brain, so to speak, the correct way for day trading futures. I had to unlearn somethings to become profitable at swing and portfolio and it took years. I donít want to make those mistakes again. So Iím conscious to get it right from the start. Hope that makes sense.

FIO has helped me a lot, genuinely Iím so grateful for such an amazing community.

Thank you for your response, itís very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, this is the common problem every new trader faces these days - Information Overload. There is an assumption amongst many that the more blinking fancy indicators trader has on his screen, the better chance he has to succeed. This is simply NOT TRUE. I have learned over the years that finding reliable patterns on the chart (yes, you can use Order Flow for this) and being able to recognize them is far more important than timing your entries based on some sort of an indicator or level. Keep it simple, use clean chart so you can recognize what you looking at and understand what drives the market auction. Use whatever tools you feel comfortable (OF may be ne of them).

Good Luck.

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  #24 (permalink)
 Ratdog 
Lansing Michigan
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Nt8
Trading: Es
 
Posts: 26 since May 2018
Thanks: 39 given, 16 received

https://www.tradingorderflow.com/

By far the best I have personally found that I personally love for NT8 regarding cumulative delta, orderflow, naked vwaps and 'footprint'.

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  #25 (permalink)
 marcdostl 
boise idaho
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 1 since Dec 2014
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Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

Hi. I use Jigsaw, and Dave, the owner, is always responsive. It's very good platform and is of great value. Unfortunately, Jigsaw is transitioning to a stand alone platform. It' called DayTrader. I have never used it. I still use NT7, and the Jigsaw software is nearly flawless. There is a NT8 platform but it is missing some elements that are in NT7. When Jigsaw completes the NT8 platform, I would definitely purchase the Jigsaw platform. Good Luck.

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  #26 (permalink)
 tatay 
Houston + Texas / United States
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 25 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 3 given, 23 received

You mention you are new to trading. First rule I have learned: is not the tool, itís the trader.
If you are ďtool-biased,Ē you are looking at a $10,000 tool chase; and, you will never get there.
The best tool there is, is between your ears. Learn to use that tool first with whatever free software you find. Ninja is got tons of tools you can use.

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  #27 (permalink)
 dogman549 
Hilo Hawaii
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader8
Trading: Emini ES, Crude CL, Emini NQ
 
Posts: 2 since Sep 2018
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I use nt8. It has all the order flow tools. The only drawback is you have to purchase the life time license. Nt8 has so much 3rd party indicators and is an open source program so you can create your own programs.

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  #28 (permalink)
 Kiks 
los angeles, ca/usa
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Metatrader 5/CQG
Broker: AMP FUTURES/CQG
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 51 since Oct 2012
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I purchased YuClusters for Metatrader5. It is a lifetime license for 5 activations. Cost right now is $55.
https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/2835

It has cumulative volumes of DOM, VWAP, Volume Imbalance Footprint, Deltas, MAs, Volume Profile, POC, Time&Sales, Block Trades, Tick Chart, Range Chart, Time Chart with custom seconds.

Once you are familiar with the tool, but you find the scrolling data to be too fast to comprehend, Metatrader5 programming language MQL5 will provide you with all the live data into your program so you could write your algorithm and automate your trades.

All of the texts and graphics disappear during live trading to remove the extra load on the cpu. In live trading I only have my program (written in MQL5) and a simple 1-min chart with no indicators.


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  #29 (permalink)
 VSPEEDS 
Jacksonville Florida USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NT8
Trading: ES, NQ
 
Posts: 2 since Apr 2018
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I've used Rancho Dinero for order flow going on 2 years. About 10 years ago I used Market Delta.

My personal opinion is keep it simple, pick a tool and stick with it. I would base the solution on NinjaTrader so you have flexibility.

In terms of competitive advantage, I like the Flowdometer approach which is similar to heatmaps of the order book. Rancho has a lot of configurability, so it takes time finding what you like and how you interpret what you're seeing. They don't offer much in terms of HOW you use their tools. e.g. setups. But that's all up to you anyway as there are too many variables. They provide enough to get started.

Hope that helps.
VSPEEDS

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  #30 (permalink)
 RobertGrover 
West Kelowna British Columbia/ Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NJT MT4
Broker: AMP / CQG
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 5 since Oct 2013
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Yes NT8 with lifetime licence is the best way to go. Market Profile and Order Flow included.

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  #31 (permalink)
 makusan 
Long Beach, CA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures
 
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Posts: 43 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 10 given, 36 received

If you wish to learn to trade like a proprietary trader...then I strongly suggest Jigsaw Trading, and their platform. Not only will Pete assist you in any way possible, he is a trader himself, and as a member there is a trade room with some very smart, wise, and successful traders, that also provide their personal expertise to assisting newbies. Look up Jigsaw on Youtube, and then have a personal chat with Pete.

namaskaram
makusan

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  #32 (permalink)
 gcaldridge 
port charlotte, florida
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Oil
 
Posts: 100 since Dec 2011
Thanks: 54 given, 80 received

First I agree with another responder that Bookmap and Jigsaw are good products with good support and with a little practice they are easy enough to use. If one product has something the others don't and it really works the others will have it tomorrow.

And as another responder said, just pick one and stick with it.

My title that 'all tools are easy to use' is meant to reflect that with relatively little training most tools are easy to use. Just think that someone wanting to be a painter or sculptor, all they have to do is learn to use a paint brush or a chisel. Easy! Yes easy to use, difficult to master!

Order flow like almost all the other indicators is easy to use but it takes a huge amount of time and effort to be proficient - and - just like most people who want to be artists they never really make it.

Ironically using an order flow 'tool' is in fact nothing like a paint brush. With a paint brush you can start 'painting' immediately and you see results, as good or as bad as they may be. With order flow using the tool doesn't do a thing. It doesn't even tell you when to enter and exit trades. You have to learn through a lot of experience what order flow is telling you in all of the numerous market contexts and then determine if, when and how you are going to trade.

The fact that you are starting with futures and are looking for an 'easy to use' tool leads me to think that you are perhaps like a starting painter hoping to make income from selling your paintings and I encourage you to do so but do so with your eyes wide open that it will take a lot of time and effort before you sell your first painting let alone a Mona Lisa.

PS - Bookmap has daily 1/2 hour live webinars. Watch them for a week or two.

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  #33 (permalink)
 sdp1969 
Pittsburgh,Pa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: CL
 
Posts: 11 since Oct 2015
Thanks: 0 given, 31 received

In my opinion you cannot beat the deal of the MZ pack for footprint charts and volume profile charts.

https://www.mzpack.pro/product/mzpack-3-for-ninjatrader-8/.

You can buy the whole package for life for 299 and add another license for another 70.00. The programmer does respond to questions in a reasonable time and comes out with updates regularly.

To trade the DOS I HIGHLY recommend Jigsaw with Mr Davies and Mr Grady as mentors. They both respond to questions in a timely manner. Mr Davies does a great job in the cornerstone education of DOS trading and philosophy where Mr Grady does the deep dive going into incredible detail looking at individual trades examining every decision made and his thought process through the entire trade.They are both a great asset on the way to becoming a professional trader. Will be in his Fall two week shadowing class for sure!

Hope this helps...

Steven

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 kalalex 
Up the Ladder, CA
 
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RobertGrover View Post
Yes NT8 with lifetime licence is the best way to go. Market Profile and Order Flow included.

I haven't used my NT8 for a while so pardon me,,,,so NT8 has market profile as in TPO now?

Back to order flow subject,,,it all depends on what you want to do with it.
If you are into reading tick by tick flow,,,Jigsaw will help you.
If you are into reading overall context the cumulative delta is enough.

PS: Ever since I moved over to Sierra chart I haven't used NT8 & Jigsaw so I'm interested in selling mine (the license) if it's allowed.

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 paps 
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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all r good.//but do check gom stuff..is neat

the best one is no more available if u want dom....was auction dashboard.

u can use jigsaw,...is pretty good

u can do real funky stuff if u want,,,,with a feed such as cqg n excel....can dissect the hell of a dom...which no off the cuff software will give,,,

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 matthew28 
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kalalex View Post
I haven't used my NT8 for a while so pardon me,,,,so NT8 has market profile as in TPO now?

They do have TPO charts now for licence holders. I do not have a licence, but did watch a presentation video they did on their new tools, and TPO is now an option in the volume profile settings. Choosing TPO letters and having the value area and POC calculated by TPO rather than volume at price.


kalalex View Post
PS: Ever since I moved over to Sierra chart I haven't used NT8 & Jigsaw so I'm interested in selling mine (the license) if it's allowed.

It isn't. Periodically people post here offering to sell a Ninja licence and the Ninjatrader forum rep replies that Ninjatrader terms and conditions don't allow licences to be transferred and anybody found using one will have the licence cancelled.

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 snax 
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paps View Post
all r good.//but do check gom stuff..is neat

the best one is no more available if u want dom....was auction dashboard.

u can use jigsaw,...is pretty good

u can do real funky stuff if u want,,,,with a feed such as cqg n excel....can dissect the hell of a dom...which no off the cuff software will give,,,

This is interesting, definitely a rabbit-hole worth exploring. I find the S5/CT Bookmap to be very fascinating from how FT71 uses it in his videos. Not currently using anything so sophisticated but definitely on my radar, you've piqued my interest!

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 Will 
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I have been trying BuysideGlobal's order flow package. Quite comprehensive.

Ninja had a webinar this afternoon by ABC123trader.com. Apparently the company's first presentation on NT. Very original and comprehensive. Worth considering.

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 paps 
SF Bay Area + CA/US
 
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snax View Post
This is interesting, definitely a rabbit-hole worth exploring. I find the S5/CT Bookmap to be very fascinating from how FT71 uses it in his videos. Not currently using anything so sophisticated but definitely on my radar, you've piqued my interest!

is ok...i have bookmap....is definitely good....nothing revolutionary...just coz someone uses it does not make a product good or bad....how u use it does



also gom...i play nq mainly...es ofcourse too

i like gom....it has 1 thing others doesnt....u got 2 find it

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 renvik 
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zqhhzq View Post
I am using ninjatrader 7 why NT7 no such volume indicators?

You need to migrate to NT 8.

Cheers.

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 renvik 
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Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

Hi,
After reading all the responses here - what is your platform?

If you don't already use a platform, you need to at least try (for free) a couple like Ninja Trader, Sierra Charts .....

Check out what orderflow tools are offered (free of coast) before you take a plunge and buy something (OrderFlow is an overloaded term - you need to be more specific about what you are looking for).

I use NinjaTrader, you will get a free trial of whatever they offer, imo it is a good place to start.

So be pennywise, test first (for free) and pay later (only if you have to)!

I use order flow tools from another vendor ($$) and use only a subset of what NT has to offer.

Cheers,
renvik


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RHT34
Miami, Fl
 
 
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Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.



Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

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  #43 (permalink)
 binaryduke 
London UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, CL, GC, ZB
 
Posts: 34 since Jun 2015


RHT34 View Post
Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

This is good stuff. To build on this and provide some other points for consideration:

- what's in the DOM is intent
- what's traded and displayed on a footprint (or volume profile) is what's traded

There's good information to be gleaned from both. A footprint chart will display the raw data of what's traded. You need to be able to understand and interpret that information to highlight different conditions - aggression, absorption, exhaustion, etc. There are vendors that will interpret this traded volume information and provide indications of these conditions irrespective of whether you are displaying the raw data within a footprint chart. So 'what is the best order flow software' is a broad question. Do you want a powerful and insightful DOM? Do you want to add a footprint capability to an existing trading platform (or select a trading platform that can display footprint charts)? Do you want to more easily interpret the information in the DOM or traded volume by using indicators that can highlight specific supply and demand conditions that can be gleaned from this raw data?

"Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money." is something I don't agree with. I believe once one has good understanding of how to make money trading, it's a waste of time trading manually. Sure, look at the screen and use this as a way to keep track of what's going on and develop new ideas for testing, etc., but a well designed automated trading system using successful and proven trading rules will execute far better than any trader. In my experience, traders that have an edge, perhaps by identifying systems and patterns and implementing them in tools end up being asked to help/share so there is an obvious progression to commercialising and monetising products and knowledge. I don't believe it's so binary that 'any software vendor/educator is not successful at trading so they are selling their snake oil to unwitting victims; no successful trader has the time to educate or sell their knowledge/system/tools because they are too busy trading'. Qualify who you are dealing with hard and assess how hard you are being sold. Learn to identify snake oil from transparent and logical information.

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  #44 (permalink)
Dxbtrader
Dubai, UAE
 
 
Posts: 10 since Jun 2019
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Thanks for this. Iíve found that I veer towards the footprint chart. I find it easier to understand quickly.

I like the idea and some of the stuff Iíve seen where support and resistance levels are shown but Iím just trying to figure out why that level and how strong is it, might sound stupid but itís just a question I find myself asking.
Iím looking now for some good footprint software and where the delta is readable at a glance. Possibly even displayed in a percentage manner, but not sure that would be the right way to go.

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 binaryduke 
London UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart, NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, CL, GC, ZB
 
Posts: 34 since Jun 2015

Sierra Chart is great because you can display multiple columns in the footprint. You can set up a footprint with bid x ask combined with a separate column of the numeric delta at each price level or have the delta at price displayed as a profile behind the bid x ask. This gives you pretty much everything you need to really understand what's going on. Of course you can see the bar delta (plus maximum, minimum, etc) but this is broad. Reading delta at price allows you to visualize absorption. Combine that with the bid x ask and you can see aggression and exhaustion.

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  #46 (permalink)
 jupiejupe 
San Diego California
 
Experience: None
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binaryduke View Post
Do you want a powerful and insightful DOM?


I never used the DOM, but i kinda figured they are all the same, i have seen a few that have tried to incorporate profile along side of the DOM, but it is all the same, unless i am missing something.

so i ask, is there a DOM worth looking into?

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mattjack9708
Wisconsin
 
 
Posts: 28 since Sep 2019
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RHT34 View Post
Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

Hello,

Thank you so much for the information and golden nugget. I am also interested in learning the footprint chart. I know you said watching on SIM might be a good way for it, but will there be another way to learn more about footprint? I am looking at AXIA Footprint course but as being said it is too expensive, I am not able to afford that..

Also, will there be any way to learn setting up footprint chart on Sierra? I am currently using Sierra chart.

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  #48 (permalink)
mattjack9708
Wisconsin
 
 
Posts: 28 since Sep 2019
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binaryduke View Post
This is good stuff. To build on this and provide some other points for consideration:

- what's in the DOM is intent
- what's traded and displayed on a footprint (or volume profile) is what's traded

There's good information to be gleaned from both. A footprint chart will display the raw data of what's traded. You need to be able to understand and interpret that information to highlight different conditions - aggression, absorption, exhaustion, etc. There are vendors that will interpret this traded volume information and provide indications of these conditions irrespective of whether you are displaying the raw data within a footprint chart. So 'what is the best order flow software' is a broad question. Do you want a powerful and insightful DOM? Do you want to add a footprint capability to an existing trading platform (or select a trading platform that can display footprint charts)? Do you want to more easily interpret the information in the DOM or traded volume by using indicators that can highlight specific supply and demand conditions that can be gleaned from this raw data?

"Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money." is something I don't agree with. I believe once one has good understanding of how to make money trading, it's a waste of time trading manually. Sure, look at the screen and use this as a way to keep track of what's going on and develop new ideas for testing, etc., but a well designed automated trading system using successful and proven trading rules will execute far better than any trader. In my experience, traders that have an edge, perhaps by identifying systems and patterns and implementing them in tools end up being asked to help/share so there is an obvious progression to commercialising and monetising products and knowledge. I don't believe it's so binary that 'any software vendor/educator is not successful at trading so they are selling their snake oil to unwitting victims; no successful trader has the time to educate or sell their knowledge/system/tools because they are too busy trading'. Qualify who you are dealing with hard and assess how hard you are being sold. Learn to identify snake oil from transparent and logical information.

I totally agree that real traders that make money don't have time to sell anything. This has actually made beginners like me totally hard to learn trading.. The snake oils are everywhere and I find it hard to believe anybody lol. Do you have any education on Footprint chart that you have found not "a snake oil"?

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  #49 (permalink)
RHT34
Miami, Fl
 
 
Posts: 21 since Mar 2016
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mattjack9708 View Post
Hello,

Thank you so much for the information and golden nugget. I am also interested in learning the footprint chart. I know you said watching on SIM might be a good way for it, but will there be another way to learn more about footprint? I am looking at AXIA Footprint course but as being said it is too expensive, I am not able to afford that..

Also, will there be any way to learn setting up footprint chart on Sierra? I am currently using Sierra chart.



I absolutely would not recommend any course from Axia for someone in your situation. There are so many traders on this forum that will assist you and it's FREE. With the course, you pay 800 pounds which comes out to $1600 U.S. or so. You only get to keep the course for 3 months. For that much money, it's not even a lifetime course. I'm sorry but that's BS. If anything, they put out so many videos on YouTube. I'd watch those instead. I'd explore every free option first before considering paying anyone for anything. If those traders are really making $50,000 a day, do they really have time to make a video course? Do they really have time to make YouTube videos everyday and edit the videos? That takes hours alone. Why would someone making that much money waste their time trying to sell courses? Basically, explore every free option you have first.

Sierra Charts is very flexible. You're able to make the footprint look like Market Delta or any other way you want. It all depends on the information you want to see. The main thing is to keep it consistent. It really doesn't matter what your footprint looks like. You can look at a delta only footprint and create strategies or a completely different looking footprint and also create setups.

As far as learning the footprint, I'd recommend starting a thread here on Futures IO. With the responses you get and actually watching the footprint, you're much better off than paying for any course someone wants to peddle you.

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  #50 (permalink)
 phantomtrader 
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
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RHT34 View Post
I absolutely would not recommend any course from Axia for someone in your situation. There are so many traders on this forum that will assist you and it's FREE. With the course, you pay 800 pounds which comes out to $1600 U.S. or so. You only get to keep the course for 3 months. For that much money, it's not even a lifetime course. I'm sorry but that's BS. If anything, they put out so many videos on YouTube. I'd watch those instead. I'd explore every free option first before considering paying anyone for anything. If those traders are really making $50,000 a day, do they really have time to make a video course? Do they really have time to make YouTube videos everyday and edit the videos? That takes hours alone. Why would someone making that much money waste their time trying to sell courses? Basically, explore every free option you have first.

Sierra Charts is very flexible. You're able to make the footprint look like Market Delta or any other way you want. It all depends on the information you want to see. The main thing is to keep it consistent. It really doesn't matter what your footprint looks like. You can look at a delta only footprint and create strategies or a completely different looking footprint and also create setups.

As far as learning the footprint, I'd recommend starting a thread here on Futures IO. With the responses you get and actually watching the footprint, you're much better off than paying for any course someone wants to peddle you.

I agree 100%. Just about everything you need is right here on this website. The amount of information that has been accumulated over the years is extraordinary (probably should keep my mouth shut or Big Mike might start charging!).
The only other course you might consider is John Grady's complete course - his live webinars are invaluable. I've done them twice.

I watched several of Axia's videos and read through their website. It looks like they use more traditional technical analysis than DOM reading. Technical analysis is something you shouldn't have to pay too much for. There's a lot of good books and websites where the information is totally free. In the end, it's up to you to figure out how you want to use order flow. The Jigsaw platform is the best. Their educational material - not so good.

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 asyx 
Munich, Germany
 
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I tried all the software regarding order flow.

The Jigsaw tools feel the most natural but they suck if it comes to real trading.
I am with them for several years.
The idea and the analysis tools are really great.
But when it comes to trading - mean their live trading subscription - they suck.
And they really suck. Donīt use them as your execution software.
I lost thousands of dollars because of their bugs.

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  #52 (permalink)
 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
Experience: Intermediate
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asyx View Post
I tried all the software regarding order flow.

The Jigsaw tools feel the most natural but they suck if it comes to real trading.
I am with them for several years.
The idea and the analysis tools are really great.
But when it comes to trading - mean their live trading subscription - they suck.
And they really suck. Donīt use them as your execution software.
I lost thousands of dollars because of their bugs.

Does Jigsaw have PnF 'bid x ask' clusters and other orderflow stuff like delta bars, market profile or it's mainly for DOM/Vista?

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  #53 (permalink)
RHT34
Miami, Fl
 
 
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tandem View Post
Does Jigsaw have PnF 'bid x ask' clusters and other orderflow stuff like delta bars, market profile or it's mainly for DOM/Vista?

Jigsaw is only a DOM. They have a heatmap chart like Bookmap but Bookmap is way more superior. There are no footprint bars at all in Jigsaw. FYI Bookmap does not have a DOM it's only a heatmap charting package. Jigsaw does have time and sales and some strength meters which basically read the orders and give you a visual. I personally find the strength meters useless but that's just me. The one nice thing about Jigsaw is it automatically records trades into a journal. If you've ever kept a journal, you know how tedious that is and what happens if you get just a little behind recording trades.

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 asyx 
Munich, Germany
 
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RHT34 View Post
Jigsaw is only a DOM. They have a heatmap chart like Bookmap but Bookmap is way more superior. There are no footprint bars at all in Jigsaw. FYI Bookmap does not have a DOM it's only a heatmap charting package. Jigsaw does have time and sales and some strength meters which basically read the orders and give you a visual. I personally find the strength meters useless but that's just me. The one nice thing about Jigsaw is it automatically records trades into a journal. If you've ever kept a journal, you know how tedious that is and what happens if you get just a little behind recording trades.

Bookmap provides a DOM, too.

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 xiaosi 
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
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asyx View Post
I tried all the software regarding order flow.

The Jigsaw tools feel the most natural but they suck if it comes to real trading.
I am with them for several years.
The idea and the analysis tools are really great.
But when it comes to trading - mean their live trading subscription - they suck.
And they really suck. Donīt use them as your execution software.
I lost thousands of dollars because of their bugs.

I find this incredulous as Iíve been a jigsaw user with an active live subscription for 5 years or so, not had a problem at all what so ever with live execution or trade management. In fact I switched to jigsaw from ninja originally because I wanted a stable live execution platform. I use the standalone daytradr version and itís rock solid....would never hesitate to recommend this. Iíve been an active futures trader for nearly ten years.

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 Anagami 
Market Wizard
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I have been using only the Jigsaw, and haven't tried the other ones.

Jigsaw has more features than you need.

In any case, your success will not be a function of your software.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven." - Milton
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 asyx 
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xiaosi View Post
I find this incredulous as Iíve been a jigsaw user with an active live subscription for 5 years or so, not had a problem at all what so ever with live execution or trade management. In fact I switched to jigsaw from ninja originally because I wanted a stable live execution platform. I use the standalone daytradr version and itís rock solid....would never hesitate to recommend this. Iíve been an active futures trader for nearly ten years.

...lots of people also complain about the issues with Ninja...

For me, itīs no problem to show screenshots from the Jigsaw-ticket system, Emails or even Skype regarding the issues with DayTradr. I also showed them live.
I had problems with every version they put out so far.
Thus the cause is not an erroneous installation.

and by the way, look at the release notes... but nevermind...

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 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
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i have tried out so far these packages, since i'm just on the beginning on my path i have plenty of time to go out and test everything:


From all these options i'm leaning now towards seriously exploring Sierra. Even though controls are so convoluted, it gives so much freedom and you can make it act just like any package out there.
On the course side i would like to say just the best words about Axia, their materials are of highest quality and very logical layout of knowledge. Next thing i will be learning emoji plugins for Sierra as i found them having the best learning materials.

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 asyx 
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tandem View Post
i have tried out so far these packages, since i'm just on the beginning on my path i have plenty of time to go out and test everything:


From all these options i'm leaning now towards seriously exploring Sierra. Even though controls are so convoluted, it gives so much freedom and you can make it act just like any package out there.
On the course side i would like to say just the best words about Axia, their materials are of highest quality and very logical layout of knowledge. Next thing i will be learning emoji plugins for Sierra as i found them having the best learning materials.

yeah, also tested these and some more.

Sierra has lots of possibilities to configure the sw.
Do you need this? ....-no.

If you really look for orderflow compare Sierra and Jigsaw DOM. I watched them very very long time.
I tell you there is a difference.

But as I said: using the tools for trading and execution trades with the tools is a different story....

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 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
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asyx View Post
yeah, also tested these and some more.

Sierra has lots of possibilities to configure the sw.
Do you need this? ....-no.

If you really look for orderflow compare Sierra and Jigsaw DOM. I watched them very very long time.
I tell you there is a difference.

But as I said: using the tools for trading and execution trades with the tools is a different story....

That's what i have in mind, Sierra for analysis, Jigsaw for execution. Jigsaw also provides a DOM learning course with drills which i'm very tempted to go through.

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 asyx 
Munich, Germany
 
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also when you compare e.g. the DOMīs for TT, Multicharts and Jigsaw you see that TT is the fastest.
Then MC and slowest Jigsaw.
Nevertheless, Jigsaw provides you information which is value-adding.
You only have to learn to read it.
The pro-guys using TT do it in their heads.
But for us normal guys it is ok to give some speed away but not get mentally overloaded.

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 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
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asyx View Post
also when you compare e.g. the DOMīs for TT, Multicharts and Jigsaw you see that TT is the fastest.
Then MC and slowest Jigsaw.
Nevertheless, Jigsaw provides you information which is value-adding.
You only have to learn to read it.
The pro-guys using TT do it in their heads.
But for us normal guys it is ok to give some speed away but not get mentally overloaded.

Also what about CQG Qtrader, have you tried this one? It comes very close to Marketdelta.

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  #63 (permalink)
 asyx 
Munich, Germany
 
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tandem View Post
Also what about CQG Qtrader, have you tried this one? It comes very close to Marketdelta.

Marketdelta is CQG rebranded (or how it is called in english).

It is also quite fast. But when I compared TT, it is the fastest of all.

I think that this has to do with then accounting of trades at bid or ask and infrastructure.

TT has a fast infrastructure and I think they ignore/ or doing poor at if a trade happened at bid or ask.
I think they only post trades.

As far as I know CQG is transmitting trade, ask and bid at the same time. That makes them a little bit slower.

Now, when we get to the DOM - things are calculated.
There Jigsaw provides more information than TT or CQG products.
Jigsaw remembers a little bit more what traded at each level.
Also the snapshot and that stuff.
Therefore Jigsaw is even a little bit slower.

Also when you compare the Multicharts DOM to the Multicharts Jigsaw Plug-ins, and you have an educated eye, then you see the MC DOM is a little bit fast than the plug-ins.

But from my experience the trade-off between speed and provided information keeps me at Jigsaw.
Even if it has/had quite some bugs so far.

If you really want to focus on orderflow , the FLOW is important. Even if Jigsaw has some disadvantages (as an execution platform - see my other posts) it gives you a better feel for orderflow....also better than Sierra charts.

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heispark
Seoul Korea
 
 
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If you're a Mac user, MotiveWave can be a good candidate. Its built-in order flow features are more or less similar to other products: https://www.motivewave.com/guides/MotiveWave_Volume_Analysis.pdf

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 tandem 
Vilnius Lithuania
 
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heispark View Post
If you're a Mac user, MotiveWave can be a good candidate. Its built-in order flow features are more or less similar to other products: https://www.motivewave.com/guides/MotiveWave_Volume_Analysis.pdf

Looks like i missed most of the orderflow capabilities in MotiveWave, it also has java sdk which is awesome, Sierra built on c++ and crashing with few daily market profiles while my java algos uses 50mb for a year of MP candles with 0 speed degradation From what i gather Sierra is good only for OHLC candles, but when it comes to orderflow and clusters it's speed and optimizations vapors away.

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  #66 (permalink)
 cpandra 
Saskatoon+Canada
 
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RHT34 View Post
Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

One of the Best Write ups I have seen ever!!! Thank you profusely for sharing your wisdom!!!

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