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Best Order Flow software
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Best Order Flow software

  #41 (permalink)
Boston MA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: Ninja/CQG
Favorite Futures: ES, ZB, CL
 
Posts: 260 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 329 given, 118 received


Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.

Hi,
After reading all the responses here - what is your platform?

If you don't already use a platform, you need to at least try (for free) a couple like Ninja Trader, Sierra Charts .....

Check out what orderflow tools are offered (free of coast) before you take a plunge and buy something (OrderFlow is an overloaded term - you need to be more specific about what you are looking for).

I use NinjaTrader, you will get a free trial of whatever they offer, imo it is a good place to start.

So be pennywise, test first (for free) and pay later (only if you have to)!

I use order flow tools from another vendor ($$) and use only a subset of what NT has to offer.

Cheers,
renvik


Cheers.

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  #42 (permalink)
Miami, Fl
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 19 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 30 received


Dxbtrader View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the best order flow software out there?
Best being defined as; easy to use, good support, having something that others donít have.

I was looking at Michael Valtos OrderFlows but his reviews are horrendous and Iíve tried to contact him but never had the courtesy of a reply.

As I am new to futures day trading, I would be looking for a company that can provide some level of support.
What is the software people are using?
Pros and cons would be good.



Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

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  #43 (permalink)
London UK
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ZB
 
Posts: 27 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 7 given, 27 received



RHT34 View Post
Hi @Dxbtrader,

There are basically two ways to approach this. The footprint or the DOM. For the footprint, it's going to organize the data for you. For a new trader, that's going to be easier to learn. The DOM is more fluid and the numbers are not organized as in a footprint.

Either way, your decisions and edge will come from understanding what actually is happening with the numbers you see. In a very general sense, you're trying to see on a very short term basis if buyers or sellers are in control. You're not using these tools to find a trade you get in early and get out on the close. These trades will last minutes. But you need to understand the context. If you're using a footprint, look left. Look at your deltas. There's clearly much more to it but start with that.

For the DOM, Jigsaw is a good solution. Footprint, you really can use any of the options available. They're all going to give you basically the same information. Google footprint and look at images and see what your eyes are drawn to. It comes down to preference. Once you get the tools, you don't really need support unless it's not working for some reason. You might need training but support you shouldn't need once up and running.

Also, some gave you advice to go with John Grady. Keep in mind he primarily trades bonds. That may not suit your personality. I'd start with all the free stuff first before buying his course. There's a lot of good free information here. Watch YouTube videos. A lot may be BS on YouTube but you may pick up a nugget or two here or there. With John Grady's stuff, you have to understand what he's primarily trading. Trading bonds is like watching paint dry. Is that your personality? Or do you prefer a much faster market. ES is a good middle ground. NQ is much faster. You have to determine what works for you.

I would NOT buy anything from Axia. They give you access for 3 months. You're sending them $1,500 and don't even get access lifetime. They have a bunch of YouTube videos. That's as far as I'd go with that firm. Most other course you purchase are lifetime.

Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money. The amount they receive from sales should be minuscule if they're actually profitable. The ones actually selling stuff probably tried their hand at trading. Didn't work and figured that there's an entire marketplace they can make money by "teaching". Ask yourself. If you're making $300,000/year trading or more, are you going to bother spending time to teach someone? Most likely not. Plus your methodology will lose edge as more people find out about it. Even if you wanted to "give back" or "help people" as some of these guys claim, you most likely wouldn't have the time. You'd be way too busy with your trading and making enough that it wouldn't be something you would venture into. So the guys selling these courses I'd be weary about. If you have specific questions on order flow, I'd start by posting them here. You're going to get a lot of good response.

You basically have to put in the time and effort. Screen time. Every night. Every weekend. Bar by bar. On replay and after a while you'll start to pick things up that resonate with you. The most successful traders all came up with their unique way of trading. They took bits and pieces of what they learned along the way and came up with their own way of trading.

Watch the footprint or DOM for a while. After enough screen time, you'll naturally start to pick certain things up. Come up with a setup that you see. Start with one thing. One setup. Make sure it resonates with your personality and become the master of that setup. Know it inside out. Later you can add more as you get good. Keep a journal and track the data so you have solid stats on your setup. How far does your setup move against you on average? Put your stops outside that. How far does it move in your favor on average. Use those stats for targets. What market conditions does your setup work in? What time of day does your setup work best?

Do all that on SIM/DEMO. Once you see consistency, start small with real money. And most importantly, treat it like a business. Far too many people treat this like a hobby. It's like any other professional job. Only the barriers to entry are non-existing for trading. Anyone can open an account and all of a sudden they're a "trader". Can you do that with anything else? If you bought and read a book on brain surgery over the weekend, what's the chances you'd be successful if you attempted that surgery Monday morning?

If you don't remember anything else, remember this. You have to learn how to lose money in trading before you can ever make money.

This is good stuff. To build on this and provide some other points for consideration:

- what's in the DOM is intent
- what's traded and displayed on a footprint (or volume profile) is what's traded

There's good information to be gleaned from both. A footprint chart will display the raw data of what's traded. You need to be able to understand and interpret that information to highlight different conditions - aggression, absorption, exhaustion, etc. There are vendors that will interpret this traded volume information and provide indications of these conditions irrespective of whether you are displaying the raw data within a footprint chart. So 'what is the best order flow software' is a broad question. Do you want a powerful and insightful DOM? Do you want to add a footprint capability to an existing trading platform (or select a trading platform that can display footprint charts)? Do you want to more easily interpret the information in the DOM or traded volume by using indicators that can highlight specific supply and demand conditions that can be gleaned from this raw data?

"Lastly, keep in mind that traders making real money don't have time to sell you anything. They're too busy making money." is something I don't agree with. I believe once one has good understanding of how to make money trading, it's a waste of time trading manually. Sure, look at the screen and use this as a way to keep track of what's going on and develop new ideas for testing, etc., but a well designed automated trading system using successful and proven trading rules will execute far better than any trader. In my experience, traders that have an edge, perhaps by identifying systems and patterns and implementing them in tools end up being asked to help/share so there is an obvious progression to commercialising and monetising products and knowledge. I don't believe it's so binary that 'any software vendor/educator is not successful at trading so they are selling their snake oil to unwitting victims; no successful trader has the time to educate or sell their knowledge/system/tools because they are too busy trading'. Qualify who you are dealing with hard and assess how hard you are being sold. Learn to identify snake oil from transparent and logical information.

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  #44 (permalink)
Dubai, UAE
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: Gold, Crude, Emini ES, Futures
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 13 given, 0 received

Thanks for this. Iíve found that I veer towards the footprint chart. I find it easier to understand quickly.

I like the idea and some of the stuff Iíve seen where support and resistance levels are shown but Iím just trying to figure out why that level and how strong is it, might sound stupid but itís just a question I find myself asking.
Iím looking now for some good footprint software and where the delta is readable at a glance. Possibly even displayed in a percentage manner, but not sure that would be the right way to go.

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  #45 (permalink)
London UK
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ZB
 
Posts: 27 since Jun 2015
Thanks: 7 given, 27 received

Sierra Chart is great because you can display multiple columns in the footprint. You can set up a footprint with bid x ask combined with a separate column of the numeric delta at each price level or have the delta at price displayed as a profile behind the bid x ask. This gives you pretty much everything you need to really understand what's going on. Of course you can see the bar delta (plus maximum, minimum, etc) but this is broad. Reading delta at price allows you to visualize absorption. Combine that with the bid x ask and you can see aggression and exhaustion.

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