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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)


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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)

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  #31 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ThinkorSwim
Trading: ES, NQ, CL, YM
 
Posts: 21 since Mar 2019
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kcrawford View Post
I see everyone arguing about Rithmic and how the drawdowns are calculated.

But did everyone miss the part that they only pay out $1,000...maximum? At least for the first 5 months?

While this might be a great idea for noobs, why would I let them hold my cash?

Nobody's weirded out about this like I am?

Thoughts?

Well yes and no. There are 3 payment options and one of them you can withdraw any amount you wish in 30 days.

But obviously this was a point of discussion with us members and Leeloo decision makers. The reason for the 2 other options that include $1000 withdraws, is to accommodate a more important desire that no other provider is offering.. and that is the ability to qualify and immediately be able to trade a full size account and not have your contracts limited (aka scaling). This was my main appeal over Topstep and Oneup.. who all require you to scale (Topstep requires it in the Eval phase as well). Not only did I not have to scale during the evaluation, which was only 10 days, but I then was able to start almost immediately trading my Paid-Performance account up to the full 12 contracts. However this is a huge risk to the financier. The evaluation phase was already super short. The reason Topstep and others require scaling- is to protect themselves. Leeloo offers a plan where you can scale as well, and likewise withdraw any custom amount of profit you want in 30 days. You can argue that 30 days is a little longer to wait versus Topstep, however if you factor in the longer evaluation phase for Topstep and scaling, by the time you make a profitable withdraw on par with an unlimited Leeloo withdraw its probly the same time frame. Still, you could count that as a demerit for Leeloo that you wait two weeks longer for a withdraw. But what you are referring to is what Leeloo labels a Longevity account option. Which does not limit your contracts. Leeloo has to protect themselves somehow, so it's a mirror trade system. You continue to trade on SIM, which means you dont have to pay for a Ninja license, you dont have to wait long to set up the live account (Power of Attorney etc)..and you can start trading right away 12, 15, even 30 contracts etc. Leeloo uses software to copy your SIM trades into the live account. But this allows them to take 100% of your trades, 50%, or wait a few days, or half your contract size, etc. It gives them flexibility to protect themselves by observing your trading the first few days and making adjustments. You however are paid in full regardless. Not only do traders get funded and emotionally struggle once live, but with 8-30 contracts sometimes blow the account within 2 days. A provider loses $5000+ off the bat. But on the flip side, with no scaling, a trader can get lucky or go huge with many contracts, make $10,000 for example.. withdraw it all and then blow the account a few days later. A financier needs a little bit of time for things to balance out with wins and losses. So we understand, we cant have cupcakes and chase it with cake. You cant have the lowest fees, least rules, shortest evaluation, largest contract packages, free license and data option, and Leeloo not have to safeguard themselves on any level. I was a little put off at first by the payment schedule.. but I calmed down when I saw there are several options. Plus, I wanted to build my account and cushion anyways. And as a long term partner, I appreciate that Leeloo starts out at taking 20% cut like the others, but next only 10% and even 5% eventually. I think that’s terrific and makes sense if you are successful. Why would I keep giving up 20%? A job pays twice a month, is once a month a deal breaker? Having said all that, the great thing is that there are options for different needs. There are more funding companies now to suit the trader. If someone cant manage waiting 30 days per withdraw, there is Topstep. If someone doesn’t want to pay for a license and wants a bigger account with more contracts and not have to scale up.. Leeloo is an option. I only used Topstep and Oneup so I cant speak for others but to me the more companies offering funding only benefits us as traders, especially by lowering costs. Ive gotten qualified and blown funded accounts too, and frankly am not an elite trader. And I think these funding companies attract a lot of (not so great) traders like me who would rather not blow our own money.. so I understand they have to protect themselves as well.

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  #32 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
 
Posts: 56 since May 2018
Thanks: 50 given, 65 received

i looked into leeloo yesterday and everything about them screams SCAM. i think BigMike should look into it and perhaps ban leeloo advertisements here if necessary. i don't want anyone here losing their hard-earned money and time to a scam.

1) watch their videos on their youtube channel. what the freak is that? does that look like a company that does business in a professional manner? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI6aRtLCLGiVTtuQvrXTk-g/videos

2) even after considering the fact that they don't impose a scaling plan, locking in YOUR MONEY for 6 months is a big red flag. they say it's to promote longevity. well, how do you know leeloo will still exist in 6 months' time? look at how quickly traderdock went out of business. and there's no proof on the internet yet of anyone actually withdrawing more than the $1000 limit after 6 months.

3) when dealing with such shady business tactics, you need to search for accountability. leeloo has no accountability. they don't reveal their identities or where they're incorporated. with E2T or TST, we know who Ryan Masten, Michael Patak, John Hoagland, etc. are. They're putting their faces and reputation on the line in public so it's harder for them to just run off with your money. even then, it's not impossible. in contrast, who the hell is behind leeloo? jody who?

heck, even OUT has a phone number for an instant communication line, as does E2T and TST. with Leeloo, there is no phone number. you can only contact them via support ticket which is a BIG RED FLAG.

4) Leeloo says they are charged $110/month by Eurex for the Eurex feed. but professional data fees for Eurex are 59 euros. TST charges $69/month for Eurex. Leeloo is lying through their teeth regarding this; what makes you think they aren't lying about other aspects of their funding program?

i want to believe they're legit but like all scammers, this is exactly how they scam you - by preying on the hope of naive, downtrodden souls. they're trying to lure in suckers whose eyes lit up when they see they can trade a huge # of contracts with no scaling ladder. they look at the 12/15/20/30 contract packages and think "just one lucky trade and i can make back all the thousands and thousands of dollars i've wasted on multiple combines and resets till now!"

except whatever lucky profits you make will be "on paper only" for 6 months after which when the time comes for Leeloo to pay the piper, they can simply close their business and walk off to the montana sunset (assuming in the first place you haven't blown up yet after 6 months).

there's a reason why you're seeing Leeloo being advertised so extensively all over Central and South American social media. it's also why Leeloo worked hard to create a Spanish version of their website.

scam US Americans and you might get sued back.

scam poor folks in Central/South America and nothing of consequence will happen b/c they'll be too poor to afford US lawyers. not to mention, it's just logistically harder to sue a US company from abroad.

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  #33 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TWS, Sierra chart
Broker: AMP,IB
Trading: NQ,ES,Euro Bund
 
Posts: 44 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 23 given, 59 received



canoekoh View Post
i looked into leeloo yesterday and everything about them screams SCAM. i think BigMike should look into it and perhaps ban leeloo advertisements here if necessary. i don't want anyone here losing their hard-earned money and time to a scam.

1) watch their videos on their youtube channel. what the freak is that? does that look like a company that does business in a professional manner? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCI6aRtLCLGiVTtuQvrXTk-g/videos

2) even after considering the fact that they don't impose a scaling plan, locking in YOUR MONEY for 6 months is a big red flag. they say it's to promote longevity. well, how do you know leeloo will still exist in 6 months' time? look at how quickly traderdock went out of business. and there's no proof on the internet yet of anyone actually withdrawing more than the $1000 limit after 6 months.

3) when dealing with such shady business tactics, you need to search for accountability. leeloo has no accountability. they don't reveal their identities or where they're incorporated. with E2T or TST, we know who Ryan Masten, Michael Patak, John Hoagland, etc. are. They're putting their faces and reputation on the line in public so it's harder for them to just run off with your money. even then, it's not impossible. in contrast, who the hell is behind leeloo? jody who?

heck, even OUT has a phone number for an instant communication line, as does E2T and TST. with Leeloo, there is no phone number. you can only contact them via support ticket which is a BIG RED FLAG.

4) Leeloo says they are charged $110/month by Eurex for the Eurex feed. but professional data fees for Eurex are 59 euros. TST charges $69/month for Eurex. Leeloo is lying through their teeth regarding this; what makes you think they aren't lying about other aspects of their funding program?

i want to believe they're legit but like all scammers, this is exactly how they scam you - by preying on the hope of naive, downtrodden souls. they're trying to lure in suckers whose eyes lit up when they see they can trade a huge # of contracts with no scaling ladder. they look at the 12/15/20/30 contract packages and think "just one lucky trade and i can make back all the thousands and thousands of dollars i've wasted on multiple combines and resets till now!"

except whatever lucky profits you make will be "on paper only" for 6 months after which when the time comes for Leeloo to pay the piper, they can simply close their business and walk off to the montana sunset (assuming in the first place you haven't blown up yet after 6 months).

there's a reason why you're seeing Leeloo being advertised so extensively all over Central and South American social media. it's also why Leeloo worked hard to create a Spanish version of their website.

scam US Americans and you might get sued back.

scam poor folks in Central/South America and nothing of consequence will happen b/c they'll be too poor to afford US lawyers. not to mention, it's just logistically harder to sue a US company from abroad.

@canoekoh Thank you for your opinion, if you right - it's very bad for me.
I just yesterday past my challenge and start live account with LeeLoo.
I ask all of the people here: if somebody have any experience (good or bad), PLEASE share.
@BigMike may be you have some additional info?
Thank you in advance!
And i'm for sure wil post here any news.

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  #34 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
 
Posts: 56 since May 2018
Thanks: 50 given, 65 received


Billicare View Post
@canoekoh Thank you for your opinion, if you right - it's very bad for me.
I just yesterday past my challenge and start live account with LeeLoo.
I ask all of the people here: if somebody have any experience (good or bad), PLEASE share.
@BigMike may be you have some additional info?
Thank you in advance!
And i'm for sure wil post here any news.

well hopefully i'm wrong but in the event i'm right, if i were in your shoes i'd probably opt for package A instead of B and withdraw profits as soon as they come.

given how much leeloo reeks of shadiness, it'd be insane to park your profits with leeloo for 6 months.

another data point which should inform future traders contemplating leeloo:

Leeloo's package B also has a withdrawal threshold like Oneuptrader. For example, for the 15 contract package, the withdrawal threshold is $5000. that means, you can only withdraw profits in excess of $5000. so since Leeloo's minimum withdraw amount is $1000, technically you can only start to withdraw profits after $6000 in profits.

now with Oneuptrader, although they have a similar withdrawal threshold, if you want to close your account with them, they let you withdraw the threshold, up to a certain % depending on how long you've stayed with OUT. if you've been with OUT for over 90 days, you get to withdraw 80% of the withdraw threshold which is reasonable.

now i emailed Leeloo yesterday asking if traders could similarly withdraw the withdraw threshold if they want to close their funded accounts with Leeloo. Leeloo avoided the question and simply told me package A might suit me better. they refused to answer whether a trader could withdraw the profit threshold.

so the conclusion is that unlike Oneuptrader, with Leeloo you CANNOT withdraw the profit threshold if you wish to close your funded trader account with them. so in effect, the $5000 profit threshold on the 150k account with Leeloo, for example, is basically no different than another step 2 combine. it's never your money in the first place.

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  #35 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TWS, Sierra chart
Broker: AMP,IB
Trading: NQ,ES,Euro Bund
 
Posts: 44 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 23 given, 59 received


canoekoh View Post
well hopefully i'm wrong but in the event i'm right, if i were in your shoes i'd probably opt for package A instead of B and withdraw profits as soon as they come.

given how much leeloo reeks of shadiness, it'd be insane to park your profits with leeloo for 6 months.

another data point which should inform future traders contemplating leeloo:

Leeloo's package B also has a withdrawal threshold like Oneuptrader. For example, for the 15 contract package, the withdrawal threshold is $5000. that means, you can only withdraw profits in excess of $5000. so since Leeloo's minimum withdraw amount is $1000, technically you can only start to withdraw profits after $6000 in profits.

now with Oneuptrader, although they have a similar withdrawal threshold, if you want to close your account with them, they let you withdraw the threshold, up to a certain % depending on how long you've stayed with OUT. if you've been with OUT for over 90 days, you get to withdraw 80% of the withdraw threshold which is reasonable.

now i emailed Leeloo yesterday asking if traders could similarly withdraw the withdraw threshold if they want to close their funded accounts with Leeloo. Leeloo avoided the question and simply told me package A might suit me better. they refused to answer whether a trader could withdraw the profit threshold.

so the conclusion is that unlike Oneuptrader, with Leeloo you CANNOT withdraw the profit threshold if you wish to close your funded trader account with them. so in effect, the $5000 profit threshold on the 150k account with Leeloo, for example, is basically no different than another step 2 combine. it's never your money in the first place.

Thank you @canoekoh.
About closing funded account i have info from my contract with LeeLoo:

Closing the Account
Should the account be closed for any reason, all funds within the account are ownership of Natural Trading, LLC.
Account Closure: Traders may choose to close the account after 180 calendar days and not before. Leeloo is a long-term Performance Account. At account closure after 180 calendar days, traders may receive payout of 80% of net reserves.
Account Closure Natural Trading, LLC: Should Natural Trading, LLC need to close the account for any reason, the trader can receive payout above the payout threshold dependent upon the life of his/her Performance account:
• 20% of the NET (minus fees) reserves for an account lifespan of 50 calendar days;
• 50% of NET (minus fees) for account lifespan of 50 to 100 calendar days;
• 80% of NET (minus fees) for account lifespan of over 101 days


About the fees i also dont understand why we need to pay 21$ for CME data, with AMP i pay 5$ only, i will ask them.

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  #36 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
 
Posts: 56 since May 2018
Thanks: 50 given, 65 received


Billicare View Post
Thank you @canoekoh.
About closing funded account i have info from my contract with LeeLoo:

Closing the Account
Should the account be closed for any reason, all funds within the account are ownership of Natural Trading, LLC.
Account Closure: Traders may choose to close the account after 180 calendar days and not before. Leeloo is a long-term Performance Account. At account closure after 180 calendar days, traders may receive payout of 80% of net reserves.
Account Closure Natural Trading, LLC: Should Natural Trading, LLC need to close the account for any reason, the trader can receive payout above the payout threshold dependent upon the life of his/her Performance account:
• 20% of the NET (minus fees) reserves for an account lifespan of 50 calendar days;
• 50% of NET (minus fees) for account lifespan of 50 to 100 calendar days;
• 80% of NET (minus fees) for account lifespan of over 101 days


About the fees i also dont understand why we need to pay 21$ for CME data, with AMP i pay 5$ only, i will ask them.

okay well this is certainly useful information, thanks! the way the contract is worded is pretty weird though.

so if the trader himself chooses to close the account after 180 days, then traders can receive 80% of net reserves. that's easy to understand and makes sense.

but if Natural Trading LLC, not the trader, decides to close the account, it says the trader can only receive " payout above the payout threshold"?

so if you're on the 15 contract package which has a $5000 profit threshold, and you currently have $7000 profit but Leeloo suddenly informs you that they're closing your account, then you're only entitled to 20%/50%/80% of $2000?

do you mind asking Leeloo for clarification on this and reporting back?

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  #37 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TWS, Sierra chart
Broker: AMP,IB
Trading: NQ,ES,Euro Bund
 
Posts: 44 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 23 given, 59 received


canoekoh View Post
okay well this is certainly useful information, thanks! the way the contract is worded is pretty weird though.

so if the trader himself chooses to close the account after 180 days, then traders can receive 80% of net reserves. that's easy to understand and makes sense.

but if Natural Trading LLC, not the trader, decides to close the account, it says the trader can only receive " payout above the payout threshold"?

so if you're on the 15 contract package which has a $5000 profit threshold, and you currently have $7000 profit but Leeloo suddenly informs you that they're closing your account, then you're only entitled to 20%/50%/80% of $2000?

do you mind asking Leeloo for clarification on this and reporting back?

Like i understand "The payout threshold" trader never recieve.
I ask the LeeLoo, will posted.

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  #38 (permalink)
Reno, Nevada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ZN, ZB, CL
 
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Posts: 333 since May 2011
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Billicare View Post
Like i understand "The payout threshold" trader never recieve.
I ask the LeeLoo, will posted.


Take a hit NOW and sign up with TopStep or Earn2Trade. If you passed their test period, then you know something about trading. Don't risk getting scammed. Take a hit with the fee you paid and get out now.

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  #39 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TWS, Sierra chart
Broker: AMP,IB
Trading: NQ,ES,Euro Bund
 
Posts: 44 since Jul 2017
Thanks: 23 given, 59 received


phantomtrader View Post
Take a hit NOW and sign up with TopStep or Earn2Trade. If you passed their test period, then you know something about trading. Don't risk getting scammed. Take a hit with the fee you paid and get out now.

Thank you for advise.
I may be naive, but i still belive in honest people.
People who say that about themselves (see the video) cannot be liars.
I make decision - i still with LeeLoo.
As i said before, i will post here all of news about my trading with LeeLoo.

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  #40 (permalink)
Baton Rouge, LA - USA
 
 
Posts: 38 since Sep 2016
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Billicare View Post
Thank you for advise.
I may be naive, but i still belive in honest people.
People who say that about themselves (see the video) cannot be liars.
I make decision - i still with LeeLoo.
As i said before, i will post here all of news about my trading with LeeLoo.

Any update with LeeLoo?

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