LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)
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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)


Trading Reviews and Vendors

Created May 15th 2019 by skfutures
Updated January 11th 2020 by santom
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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)

  #21 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra, MT4
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, NG, XAUUSD, USDJPY
 
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TickSanity View Post
Thank you. I wrote Leeloo and they said they are working with Rithmic to match how Topstep operates their drawdown, versus OneUp. I told them it makes no sense if Leeloo is offering long term trading- to utilize an open balance trailing.

Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

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  #22 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
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dyst View Post
Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

yes.. exactly.. I never noticed it as an issue for me because I'm always flat by end of day (except once).. but I have a friend who likes to hold positions wanting to use Leeloo.. and others (sk) raised the question as well.. and I got confused. And Topstep doesnt have any swing traders so it's not an issue. But need clarity on how it will work with Leeloo because as you say. if you hold a position past 5pm.. is that going to blow your account the next day because drawdown was measured from the unrealized high (calculated at 5pm).

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  #23 (permalink)
North vancouver
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
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dyst View Post
Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

Rithmic resets when the market close and I was told that usually is at 4:45EST. So if you were to swing trade, your daily drawdown restarts as soon as Rithmic resets. For example, say, you have one of the evaluation with daily max drawdown 2500 max drawdown 3000 profit 6000 package. You are in a swing trade and you are up 3000 dollars and market closes. Market opens and drops 2500 dollars. You fail the evaluation because you hit your daily max drawdown even though you are still up by 500 from this trade.

E2T is the same.

In that sense, you can't truly say they allow swing trades..

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  #24 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra, MT4
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, NG, XAUUSD, USDJPY
 
dyst's Avatar
 
Posts: 83 since May 2015
Thanks: 50 given, 57 received

I just tested with CL yesterday I bought near the lows definitely below 57.5 but Rithmic did the mark to market thing so now the entry price shows as 58.19? I checked the charts and it looks to be the globex ETH closing price, not even the settlement price 57.91




skfutures View Post
Rithmic resets when the market close and I was told that usually is at 4:45EST. So if you were to swing trade, your daily drawdown restarts as soon as Rithmic resets. For example, say, you have one of the evaluation with daily max drawdown 2500 max drawdown 3000 profit 6000 package. You are in a swing trade and you are up 3000 dollars and market closes. Market opens and drops 2500 dollars. You fail the evaluation because you hit your daily max drawdown even though you are still up by 500 from this trade.

E2T is the same.

In that sense, you can't truly say they allow swing trades..


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  #25 (permalink)
North vancouver
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
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Posts: 128 since Oct 2016
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dyst View Post
I just tested with CL yesterday I bought near the lows definitely below 57.5 but Rithmic did the mark to market thing so now the entry price shows as 58.19? I checked the charts and it looks to be the globex ETH closing price, not even the settlement price 57.91

So what time was it exactly?
Thanks.

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  #26 (permalink)
Singapore
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra, MT4
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, NG, XAUUSD, USDJPY
 
dyst's Avatar
 
Posts: 83 since May 2015
Thanks: 50 given, 57 received

From what I've seen they only do this MTM (mark to market) during Globex close, not 4.45 PM ET, and it will be the final tick of the 4:59:59 price therefore it's impossible to MTM at 4.45PM ET because how would CME know in advance what the final ETH closing tick/price would be?

I took the CL long below 57.50 and when globex reopened 6PM ET it shows my entry price as 58.19 (rithmic trader log will show us this SOD aka 'start of day' line which tells us it is MTM or entry carried over globex close) which is based on the last tick price according to CME instead of settlement price 57.91. I took a screenshot here for proof https://gyazo.com/6863e3f1464bb20411626ba99abc69e4 & when I checked my chart it also shows at the ending price for the 16:55 ET candle on 5min time frame as 58.19

ps: I've informed e2t too so they may update their FAQ. I guess we learn something new everyday I'm just wondering what these firms can do to avoid retracement from that SOD price from being counted as 'drawdown' if we are still technically still in profit from entry price. This is what irks me and keeps me off runners/big winners and I end up scalping for pennies and get 1 bad day and boom there goes days of scalping work.




skfutures View Post
So what time was it exactly?
Thanks.

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  #27 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, TWS, Sierra chart
Broker/Data: AMP,IB
Favorite Futures: NQ,ES,Euro Bund
 
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skfutures View Post
I was wondering if any fio members tried LeeLoo funding program.
@TickSanity mentioned about them in this forum and I haven't heard anything else.
I am just curious if anyone made it through the program and got funded.

I just started the LeeLoo promouted program (10 days) and also curious about real people hue got funded.
May be you @skfutures or @TickSanity or some body have any news?
Please keep posted!

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  #28 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ThinkorSwim
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, CL, YM
 
Posts: 21 since Mar 2019
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Billicare View Post
I just started the LeeLoo promouted program (10 days) and also curious about real people hue got funded.
May be you @skfutures or @TickSanity or some body have any news?
Please keep posted!

Yes I got funded. I chose the Leader / Follower option.. its called Longevity account. You keep trading on SIM and they mirror my trades. This way I can start faster (dont have to wait to get set up live/ Power of Attorney etc).. and you dont need to pay for a Ninja License.. you can keep using the SIM one provided. I have a paid Ninja license but just mentioning that perk for some folks. Also there is no scaling.. so you can begin trading right away with the full use of 15 contracts etc. The way they protect themselves is to take some of your trades, or all, or wait a couple days to make sure you are performing well etc. The only caveat to that Option is your withdraws are less frequent on that Option.. however.. all that said.. I already lost that account . Of course I started during a week the markets were their worst for my approach.. though I cant blame it all on that naturally. But Leeloo itself has been great.. I still like it's parameters and still using the service.

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  #29 (permalink)
Honolulu, HI/USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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Posts: 12 since Jun 2013
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Funny...nobody's talking about this part.

I see everyone arguing about Rithmic and how the drawdowns are calculated.

But did everyone miss the part that they only pay out $1,000...maximum? At least for the first 5 months?

While this might be a great idea for noobs, why would I let them hold my cash?

Nobody's weirded out about this like I am?

Thoughts?

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  #30 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ThinkorSwim
Favorite Futures: ES, NQ, CL, YM
 
Posts: 21 since Mar 2019
Thanks: 3 given, 23 received



kcrawford View Post
I see everyone arguing about Rithmic and how the drawdowns are calculated.

But did everyone miss the part that they only pay out $1,000...maximum? At least for the first 5 months?

While this might be a great idea for noobs, why would I let them hold my cash?

Nobody's weirded out about this like I am?

Thoughts?

Well yes and no. There are 3 payment options and one of them you can withdraw any amount you wish in 30 days.

But obviously this was a point of discussion with us members and Leeloo decision makers. The reason for the 2 other options that include $1000 withdraws, is to accommodate a more important desire that no other provider is offering.. and that is the ability to qualify and immediately be able to trade a full size account and not have your contracts limited (aka scaling). This was my main appeal over Topstep and Oneup.. who all require you to scale (Topstep requires it in the Eval phase as well). Not only did I not have to scale during the evaluation, which was only 10 days, but I then was able to start almost immediately trading my Paid-Performance account up to the full 12 contracts. However this is a huge risk to the financier. The evaluation phase was already super short. The reason Topstep and others require scaling- is to protect themselves. Leeloo offers a plan where you can scale as well, and likewise withdraw any custom amount of profit you want in 30 days. You can argue that 30 days is a little longer to wait versus Topstep, however if you factor in the longer evaluation phase for Topstep and scaling, by the time you make a profitable withdraw on par with an unlimited Leeloo withdraw its probly the same time frame. Still, you could count that as a demerit for Leeloo that you wait two weeks longer for a withdraw. But what you are referring to is what Leeloo labels a Longevity account option. Which does not limit your contracts. Leeloo has to protect themselves somehow, so it's a mirror trade system. You continue to trade on SIM, which means you dont have to pay for a Ninja license, you dont have to wait long to set up the live account (Power of Attorney etc)..and you can start trading right away 12, 15, even 30 contracts etc. Leeloo uses software to copy your SIM trades into the live account. But this allows them to take 100% of your trades, 50%, or wait a few days, or half your contract size, etc. It gives them flexibility to protect themselves by observing your trading the first few days and making adjustments. You however are paid in full regardless. Not only do traders get funded and emotionally struggle once live, but with 8-30 contracts sometimes blow the account within 2 days. A provider loses $5000+ off the bat. But on the flip side, with no scaling, a trader can get lucky or go huge with many contracts, make $10,000 for example.. withdraw it all and then blow the account a few days later. A financier needs a little bit of time for things to balance out with wins and losses. So we understand, we cant have cupcakes and chase it with cake. You cant have the lowest fees, least rules, shortest evaluation, largest contract packages, free license and data option, and Leeloo not have to safeguard themselves on any level. I was a little put off at first by the payment schedule.. but I calmed down when I saw there are several options. Plus, I wanted to build my account and cushion anyways. And as a long term partner, I appreciate that Leeloo starts out at taking 20% cut like the others, but next only 10% and even 5% eventually. I think thatís terrific and makes sense if you are successful. Why would I keep giving up 20%? A job pays twice a month, is once a month a deal breaker? Having said all that, the great thing is that there are options for different needs. There are more funding companies now to suit the trader. If someone cant manage waiting 30 days per withdraw, there is Topstep. If someone doesnít want to pay for a license and wants a bigger account with more contracts and not have to scale up.. Leeloo is an option. I only used Topstep and Oneup so I cant speak for others but to me the more companies offering funding only benefits us as traders, especially by lowering costs. Ive gotten qualified and blown funded accounts too, and frankly am not an elite trader. And I think these funding companies attract a lot of (not so great) traders like me who would rather not blow our own money.. so I understand they have to protect themselves as well.


Last edited by TickSanity; October 2nd, 2019 at 06:38 PM.
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