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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)
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LeeLoo by Natural Trading (anybody used them before?)

  #21 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
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skfutures View Post
I thought you are doing the evaluation already. Didn't you say you ware up 3k and still need to make 3k more?

Anyway, if you are in the evaluation you should know how it works. As far as my free evaluation experience goes, they use
Rithmics risk parameter just like TST. LeeLoo uses negative unrealized/open pnl and positive closed pnl for minimal account balance. As long as you don't hit daily unrealized/open max drawdown or minimal account balance you are okay.
Positive open pnl does not increase minimal account balance until it is closed or 4:45EST which ever comes first.

Ah.. ok that makes sense. Yes I have had live trades externally closed out in TOpstep and Leeloo that were in unrealized drawdown.. but all this talk (from others too using Leeloo in my trade rooms) about unrealized profit high possibly affecting drawdown confused me.. and I hadnt noticed it. But maybe because as you say... it doesnt work that way. Well in that case.. its not a big deal then.

Edit- but it would still be an issue for long term open swing trades that you are holding through the End of Day break.. because if at 5pm est as you say it is calculated.. then that could affect that current trade that evening/next day etc.


Last edited by TickSanity; May 22nd, 2019 at 04:17 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)
Singapore
 
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TickSanity View Post
Thank you. I wrote Leeloo and they said they are working with Rithmic to match how Topstep operates their drawdown, versus OneUp. I told them it makes no sense if Leeloo is offering long term trading- to utilize an open balance trailing.

Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

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  #23 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
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dyst View Post
Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

yes.. exactly.. I never noticed it as an issue for me because I'm always flat by end of day (except once).. but I have a friend who likes to hold positions wanting to use Leeloo.. and others (sk) raised the question as well.. and I got confused. And Topstep doesnt have any swing traders so it's not an issue. But need clarity on how it will work with Leeloo because as you say. if you hold a position past 5pm.. is that going to blow your account the next day because drawdown was measured from the unrealized high (calculated at 5pm).

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  #24 (permalink)
North vancouver
 
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dyst View Post
Yeah I am confused that is why I was asking... Oneup looks at intraday peak (considers unrealised gains as drawdowns too if price retraces despite you being in profit from entry) while TST looks at EOD (closed trades since you will be d/q if you still have open positions after 4:10 ET if not wrong) balance.

Question is when you hold futures for longer term swing, this rithmic tends to do Mark to market at end of globex session based on my experience with e2t... is that where (the mark to market price aka settlement price) the drawdown will be computed from for Leeloo? e.g. if I had long CL at 61.50 days ago but did not book profit at 63.95 because I thought I would be getting 64+ am I disqualified when it dropped back below 62 (but still above my entry for longs) because they mark to market at 63.15 days ago?

This is something good to clarify

Rithmic resets when the market close and I was told that usually is at 4:45EST. So if you were to swing trade, your daily drawdown restarts as soon as Rithmic resets. For example, say, you have one of the evaluation with daily max drawdown 2500 max drawdown 3000 profit 6000 package. You are in a swing trade and you are up 3000 dollars and market closes. Market opens and drops 2500 dollars. You fail the evaluation because you hit your daily max drawdown even though you are still up by 500 from this trade.

E2T is the same.

In that sense, you can't truly say they allow swing trades..

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  #25 (permalink)
Singapore
 
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I just tested with CL yesterday I bought near the lows definitely below 57.5 but Rithmic did the mark to market thing so now the entry price shows as 58.19? I checked the charts and it looks to be the globex ETH closing price, not even the settlement price 57.91




skfutures View Post
Rithmic resets when the market close and I was told that usually is at 4:45EST. So if you were to swing trade, your daily drawdown restarts as soon as Rithmic resets. For example, say, you have one of the evaluation with daily max drawdown 2500 max drawdown 3000 profit 6000 package. You are in a swing trade and you are up 3000 dollars and market closes. Market opens and drops 2500 dollars. You fail the evaluation because you hit your daily max drawdown even though you are still up by 500 from this trade.

E2T is the same.

In that sense, you can't truly say they allow swing trades..


Numbers work... Magic lies in the numbers
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  #26 (permalink)
North vancouver
 
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dyst View Post
I just tested with CL yesterday I bought near the lows definitely below 57.5 but Rithmic did the mark to market thing so now the entry price shows as 58.19? I checked the charts and it looks to be the globex ETH closing price, not even the settlement price 57.91

So what time was it exactly?
Thanks.

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  #27 (permalink)
Singapore
 
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From what I've seen they only do this MTM (mark to market) during Globex close, not 4.45 PM ET, and it will be the final tick of the 4:59:59 price therefore it's impossible to MTM at 4.45PM ET because how would CME know in advance what the final ETH closing tick/price would be?

I took the CL long below 57.50 and when globex reopened 6PM ET it shows my entry price as 58.19 (rithmic trader log will show us this SOD aka 'start of day' line which tells us it is MTM or entry carried over globex close) which is based on the last tick price according to CME instead of settlement price 57.91. I took a screenshot here for proof https://gyazo.com/6863e3f1464bb20411626ba99abc69e4 & when I checked my chart it also shows at the ending price for the 16:55 ET candle on 5min time frame as 58.19

ps: I've informed e2t too so they may update their FAQ. I guess we learn something new everyday I'm just wondering what these firms can do to avoid retracement from that SOD price from being counted as 'drawdown' if we are still technically still in profit from entry price. This is what irks me and keeps me off runners/big winners and I end up scalping for pennies and get 1 bad day and boom there goes days of scalping work.




skfutures View Post
So what time was it exactly?
Thanks.

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Numbers work... Magic lies in the numbers
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  #28 (permalink)
Haifa,Israel
 
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skfutures View Post
I was wondering if any fio members tried LeeLoo funding program.
@TickSanity mentioned about them in this forum and I haven't heard anything else.
I am just curious if anyone made it through the program and got funded.

I just started the LeeLoo promouted program (10 days) and also curious about real people hue got funded.
May be you @skfutures or @TickSanity or some body have any news?
Please keep posted!

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  #29 (permalink)
Austin Texas
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, ThinkorSwim
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Billicare View Post
I just started the LeeLoo promouted program (10 days) and also curious about real people hue got funded.
May be you @skfutures or @TickSanity or some body have any news?
Please keep posted!

Yes I got funded. I chose the Leader / Follower option.. its called Longevity account. You keep trading on SIM and they mirror my trades. This way I can start faster (dont have to wait to get set up live/ Power of Attorney etc).. and you dont need to pay for a Ninja License.. you can keep using the SIM one provided. I have a paid Ninja license but just mentioning that perk for some folks. Also there is no scaling.. so you can begin trading right away with the full use of 15 contracts etc. The way they protect themselves is to take some of your trades, or all, or wait a couple days to make sure you are performing well etc. The only caveat to that Option is your withdraws are less frequent on that Option.. however.. all that said.. I already lost that account . Of course I started during a week the markets were their worst for my approach.. though I cant blame it all on that naturally. But Leeloo itself has been great.. I still like it's parameters and still using the service.

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  #30 (permalink)
Honolulu, HI/USA
 
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Funny...nobody's talking about this part.


I see everyone arguing about Rithmic and how the drawdowns are calculated.

But did everyone miss the part that they only pay out $1,000...maximum? At least for the first 5 months?

While this might be a great idea for noobs, why would I let them hold my cash?

Nobody's weirded out about this like I am?

Thoughts?

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