I was a member of Naturus.com Subscription Service for Futures Traders tradingroom in paltalk. Altough the lady trader has a high win rate, and brings in more than 15 pts on the ES daily, I had difficulty following her calls. Does any1 have experience with her calls and how u profited from them?
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I was in her room a long time ago. I found it difficult to trade in her room because she seemed to give aggressive entries as well as conservative entries. I wasn't sure which to take. I also didn't find her to be very nice. Bitchy is a better way of putting it.
So you WERE a member? Hmmm if that lady as you said, "brings in more than 15 pts on the ES daily", and you can't profit from that....then something must be SERIOUSLY WRONG!
Well, the 15pts is per her calls log available on her website. At no stage did C display her DOM or her trading order screen and showed what her wins are from her calls. Thats the reason I am putting it here, as there many websites that claim brilliant performance, but at the end of the day, little proof is available. I am aware of her calls, but they were a little inconsistent to justify the amount she is asking these days
True, I would agree that newbies want instant gratification and that in and of itself is a problem. But, the way the room is "sold" it appears that one ought to be able to capture some of those points she makes every day. Additionally, the style of teaching isn't necessarily conducive to making advancement. I guess ultimately its up to each one to make it.
Just check her posted results with where the market actually trades. She lists trades that would require fills at levels the market never touches. Enough said?
after several years in her room , everyday , the numbers she post as results are simply true. her calls are more than outstanding. learning process is painful, but with everyday explanations , slowly i accumulate knowledge.
not always i agree with her calls , sometimes we go opposite direction, and market allways give for both sides.
her methodology simply work
really encourage people to give a long long try , success is granted.
yes.... take time . depends on knowledge level u start , and\or ur speed of learning. take me at least one year.
and one day u understand how the puzzle is constructed.
also the taylor system is invaluable, it set the rythm and direction of the trend
her calls are excellent, however, the manner in which they are given, as well as the moody state of the room owner, does not create an enabling environment for some customers to benefit from her calls. moreover, her calls are meant to led to a dependency syndrome.
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To everyone who is interested in Naturus. I was a member of her room for about 2 years. Every day I would come to her room and trade. I made money and I lost money. I do agree with every one who has posted in this tread. However I think Nat is one of the best traders I have met since I started to trade about 4 years ago.
Nat does make a lot of points, but it is hard to know where she is trading and if she is trading because she would not show her DOM.
On the other hand she will try to explain what she is doing if she is having a good day.
Nat would offer trades every day on the long side and short side it is up to an individual trader to decide which way to go. There were in some cases some ghost trades where price would never get to but she would call to take money “of the table” that part was very confusing to me.
Room is not very friendly and I had some conflicts with some members when I had to ask questions. Some old members are very protective of Nat. I left Nat because I just could not make enough money to justify my expense. All in all this was very good learning experience. There is very comprehensive tread on this forum discussing chat rooms, so if any of you are in need of the room read that post.
In my humble opinion there is no need to pay $250.00 dollars fore any room. I guess now Nat is charging a bit more. There are free rooms on the web, or room that would charge a lot less.
And one last point do not “kill” Yoyo he is great friend and great trader. If you ever need any help just ask Yoyo!!!
BTW my name in the room was Zustrich
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I like Gail from Tradershelpdesk. Room is open every day from 9:00AM-12:00PM. Gail does know what she is talking about, or at list I think she does. In the room she is trading currency futures, but would look on just about anything if one would ask. There are a lot of educational stuff, so if you are new to trading might help. The best part room is free so how can we lose?
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I have been a member of Nat's room several times over the past three years. I could only take about 3 months at a time and would leave. Nat uses a mixture of methods but none that you can really get your head around. She uses a mix of S&R, including Murrey Math lines. Se is a master at calling both longs and shorts, so no matter which way the market goes, she is right. I never could get in synch with her. To say she is moody is an understatement. No one questions Nat and gets away unscathed. She is very defensive. The posted results are all hypothetical. If you read her website carefully you will find that disclaimer (and that she keeps her own trades private). The results do not reflect reality in any way; trades are left out and others just appear. There really is not a clear way to tell whether a trade is a scalp, a "method" call, or a swing trade. I just could not take the confusion. So you ask why did I go back several times....in short I was groping and hoping to find something that worked.
The last time I was a member (over a year ago) YoYo was the moderator on Monday mornings. His calls were easier to understand than Nat's.
If you can understand Nat, you can make money there. I just could not. All is not bad about her site. She really does want to help you. She does give seminars (some free, some at cost).
The bottom line I have: save your money, read the threads here and you will progress faster as a trader.
Papa15 (on Nat, it was buddyp)
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this was my recollection too. thats the reason i referred to him as a senior official. yoyo too did not escape the moody tendencies of sister and owner. why he should try to put across a position as a mere customers baffles hme. he is a close associate and he does call trades. i am sure he does get a fair share of the over 300$ that are charge.
let NAT and YOYO came out clearly. let her display her trading screen and show what trades she took.
Until such time she has come out in the open, and showcase her screens, her calls are in the realm of would-have, could-have.
She has never ever treated any critical customer with respect.
I still stand by my comments that in terms of transparency, performance and reasonablenes, simon of FUTURES fx offers the best deals out there. i am happy customer and simon's room is open from 9h30 to 12h30. his classes are really mentoring sessions and he does show his screen all the time. whoever is recommended, should be able to show his customer his tradingscreen. if that is the departure point, then i am ready to look at any tradingroom. Anything else is closer to selling snakeoil.
$4K sorry I do not think I would agree, but we all do what we must do. Read my post above FREE room from 9-12 every day but Friday with charts and DOM. Trading calls with full review of every call and education. Ask as much as you wish till you are blue in the face. To me that resonable. But I might be wrong what do I know...
In my trading room, trades are called out BEFORE they enter them, they call out with explaining why they will enter a trade, and then you can prepare and follow and enter THE SAME TIME AS THEY Do. LIVE. I have never seen them taking a trade without talking before about it.
Reading the above room, if you can't even follow what she's doing, what's the use of that room ???
I have paid 3k to TheTradingZone eMini Day Trading, another 3k for a spagetti system running on tradestation and also wired 10k to www.pipmonster.com in 2005 to have them trade it for me. Subsequently, I have seen quite a number of stuff but i am finally happy with the 3k costing mentoring course of bill mcdowell. i spent 1200 on simon's futuresfx.ca which is just gathering dust.
i value your advice like i value each advise from all comrades sharing the trenches. i personally wont touch tradershelpdesk. it uses spagetti indicators and for that reason, i wont touch it. it might be free but i will let noobies touch and toy around with it.
Plus I will ONLY look at anything where the author/vendor publishes a tradelog of setups that meet the system's rules each day. Other than that, I wont waste my valuable time on anything except maybe latter day revisions of AHG
I had a trial in her room. Though stayed there for two days only.
During this time she called very aggressive scalp calls. But few times by the time she gave the entry details price was already at the take profit point. I noticed a couple of times if I entered I would lose. But she never returned to her called trades, if she stopped out or took profit and at which point you never know.
I liked that she gives signals typing in text chat and does not talk too much, only necessary things. I do not know what is the reason, their software or microphone, but the sound quality is rather poor in the room. If she calls scalp trades, I think they should warn by some sound to indicate appearing possible long positions and short immediately when they appear (like puretick did with their spooky sounds) and then type in text chat more details like t/p price and so on. In this case you will not be left with entry details when it is time to take profit.
She gives some key prices and analysis before a trading day.
Well in overall I would give it another try probably later, it is not so bad.
Hi Nqcruiser - thanks for the post. I see that you mentioned a course with bill mcdowell. Are you still in his room? How was the mentoring? Is it successful? I'm recently debating whether to join or not but I do have a few questions left.
Here are some facts about Naturus so anyone reading this can make a more informed decision about her and her services at naturus.com. I want to make absolutely clear that I have nothing against Naturus and the facts below are not meant to bias a potential subscriber, or current subscriber, in any way but rather solely to inform.
I will first disclose that I have a past history with Naturus. Naturus ("Nat" as she liked to be called) is a Chinese lady now in her late 30's or early 40's. Naturus is not her real name and that picture of the woman on her website is not her. When I knew her, she lived in Toronto in a small apartment. Her husband was older and he couldn't work so money was tight. She gets extremely defensive if anyone questions her integrity or demands proof of her claims (such as posting a brokerage statement).
Nat will NEVER reveal her own private trades because she doesn't trade for her own account or anyone's account. In fact, at the time I knew her, she confessed she didn't have an account with ANY futures broker or an investment account of any kind. She had tried trading in the past and lost money at it. Since she herself is not a successful ES trader and couldn't afford to lose any capital she decided to make money by providing a subscription service to ES traders with her charting, tools, and calls. She asked several traders to help her start naturus.com but when they found out that she wasn't herself actually trading, they decided they wouldn't participate.
Having said the above, anyone is free to open a website and sell whatever they want, even if what they sell is making ES trading calls. And Nat is a master at that with the "trading plan", the "focus levels", the "nat line", etc., products all designed as a complete package hitting on the key features of successful trading to get you to subscribe. That's what her mission is...to get you to subscribe, interract with her tools, and listen to her calls not to prove to you what trades she is taking. (As a side note, she is known for having posted fake trades in text based chat rooms.)
If she makes money making the calls and a subscriber makes money employing her calls then it's a win win...if not...well, probably not wise to subscribe. I can tell you unequivocally that she did not eat her own cooking. Her site infers a subscriber, assuming the subscriber trades everything according to what Nat calls, could earn gobs of money everyday. Is this deceptive, unrealistic (to good to be true), or even possible? One has to decide for him or herself if considering subscribing to naturus.com services.
Here's a little hint for any of you interested in the foundation of her approach, it's a slightly modified version of George Angell's LSS trading method.
I hope this helps to inform. Good luck and good trading to all!
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1) Untrue? With all due respect, my post contains nothing but the absolute truth and facts as prefaced in my original post. I responded with factual information when someone asked about her services.
2) Defamatory? Not in the least. In fact, Nat makes great calls. Whether they are timely or not, whether they are real or not, whether the subscriber can make any money consistently from them is up to him or her to find out for him or her self as I posted. There are a number of posts on other forums, including this one, that bring up these issues from former/current subscribers. None of this is new.
3) A former friend gone sour and vindictive? I said in my original post I have nothing against Nat. Again, just truthful and factual information was posted.
wdampier, huh? You wouldn't happen to be her husband would you? I've told the truth, now how about you?
My post was meant as nothing more than truthful and unbiased information. Anyone is free to subscribe to her service as well as any other trading service with my hope that it is a profitable experience for them.
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Moderator Notice
I would like to remind everyone that when discussing topics of this nature, if you are stating something as a fact and not opinion, you need to back those statements up with proof. So if you make a claim, prove it, otherwise do not make the claim.
When discussing your past experiences, good and bad, make it clear they are your opinion only.
Last, if you believe any post is violating our terms and conditions of the site, use the Report Post feature to the right of every post to alert the moderators. As always, you should form your own opinions about a service and not rely solely on what someone else has said.
I think all vendors who sell trading systems, trade calls,or room trading signals are bogus unless proven otherwise.
The burden of proof is on the vendor, not the customer, to show they are indeed taking real money trades unless the vendor states clearly and unequivocally, they are not trading in cash, trading in Sim mode, or not trading in any mode.
Vendors will give you a million reasons till Sunday (all of which are BS) why they can't produce real trading statements. The fact is nothing within the laws of the US prevents them from proving they are trading with cash and not monopoly money.
The mere fact they refuse to show bona fide evidence of real trades is prima facie evidence they are hiding something, namely the truth.
STAY AWAY FROM ANY VENDOR WHO CLAIMS TO TRADE WITH REAL MONEY YET WON'T PROVE IT REGARDLESS OF THEIR EXCUSES. If you follow this advice, you will, in all likelihood, never spend a cent on a charlatan.
"When I knew her, she lived in Toronto in a small apartment..."
Nat Has lived in the same condo on the edge of the Toronto financial district for 20 years. A family of 6 might find it small, but it seems spacious to the two of us. The hotel across the street charges $450 a night for 1/10th of the space. No mortgage. She also owns property in Shanghai and Hong Kong. No mortgages there either.
"... her husband was older and he couldn't work..."
That would be me. I worked for 40 years aas a journalist and won the Canadian equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize and edited the Engish-language publication of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences. I hsve been retired for 2 years now with a comfortable pension -- not that it is any of your business. I have never been out of work a day in my life.
"... so money was tight."
We are not wealthy, but I have never known a time when we could not afford to buy what we want. That is none of your business too.
That is three untruths in a single sentence. There is more:
"Nat will NEVER reveal her own private trades because she doesn't trade for her own account or anyone's account. In fact, at the time I knew her, she confessed she didn't have an account with ANY futures broker or an investment account of any kind. She had tried trading in the past and lost money at it. Since she herself is not a successful ES trader and couldn't afford to lose any capital she decided to make money by providing a subscription service to ES traders with her charting, tools, and calls. She asked several traders to help her start naturus.com but when they found out that she wasn't herself actually trading, they decided they wouldn't participate."
Nat has had an active trading account continuously since 1992. When she first started trading she lost money -- who doesn't?. Since then she has been remarkably successful. That's why she doesn't have to worry about a mortgage.
She does not day-trade the ES while she is running the chat room, but she regularly takes position trades in the ES, oil and gold and makes money at them.
She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?
She began running a chat room when she was hired by the Trending 123 website to manage their e-mini trading room. She later took it over as her own by mutual agreement. She did not ask anyone to help establish naturus.com.
Her main purpose is to help people trade successfully, because successful subscribers stay in the room and unsuccessful ones drop out. Most of her subscribers have beeen members for more than a year, and many have been members for 5 years.
She has never traded George Angell's LSS system (it is actually George Douglass Taylor's LSS sytem).
She doesn't tell anyone they can make gobs of money trading her calls ... just the opposite. She warns eveyone considering membership that trading is difficult and that they will have to spend a lot of time learning before they can expect to be profitable. Anyone who thinks they can start on Monday and be making money by Friday never got that message from her.
To me the reason is simple. She is saying, pay her to be in the room, so she can teach me to trade. Is it so unreasonable to ask for some kind of proof that she can deliver.
For sure her success is no guarantee of my success, but if she can't trade can she really teach me. I'd like to know she is trading successfully.
I wasn't going to comment any further on this thread Peter, but you ask a reasonable question in a reasonable way, so I'll make an attempt to respond.
From a vendor's perspective, there is very little upside to sharing personal information of this nature, and a very large downside.
The upside is that it reassures potential clients, removes an area of doubt. It is almost entirely irrelevant to the potential client's success or failure, as you point out correctly, so it is false reassurance ... but comforting nonetheless.
The downside is that for us it is intrusive and dangerous. We aren't Goldman Saks; when Nat providesn her personal trading records it is not mixed in with a dozen others. It is her personal information and she is sharing not just privately w you, but publicly with everyone who can read, not just now but forever.
(And obscuring the name and account number is no protection. Anyone who is interested can find details of her persoanl information in minutes).
She's just not gonna do it. You wouldn't do it either, in her place -- especially since providing that information will not make a blind bit of difference.
The simple fact is that the large majority of people who try trading, and especially day-trading, will fail. (This is not unique to trading, it is true of any difficult skill; think how many people take piano lessons and how few are able to perform in public.)
The universe of failures is much larger than the universe of successes, and much more vocal. Successful traders rarely talk about trading in detail, and almost never comment publicly in forums like this.
Human nature being what it is, the failures look for excuses outside of themselves to explain their lack of success, and the easiest scapegoat is to blame the lousy teacher.
The result is threads like this one, which encourages petty and vindictive anonymous comments, but doesn't really enlighten anyone about the difficult and frustrating processs of becoming a trader. It is certainly not a venue that any sensible person would use to tell the world the most intimate details of her financial life.
The purpose of my original post was to simply inform folks that Naturus, who is the
moderator and main “trader” of an ES DAYTRADING service, does not , IN FACT, use her own
daytrading calls to trade for her own account. It was not to go off on the many tangents
and issues you set forth above in your post. I stated some of those personal facts to let
folks know I had direct interaction with Nat long enough for her to disclose these facts to
me directly and personally. I have nothing to win or lose by disclosing this information to
the trading community.
You, Mr. Dampier, as her husband and one who seemingly has taken the position as her public
relations representative (too bad we couldn’t hear from the horse herself) stated in your
most recent post above:
“She does not day-trade the ES while she is running the chatroom…”
Thank you for clarifying that and substantiating the main thesis of my posts. Your statement
is honorable and I’m sure many appreciate now knowing a bit more truth. However, I would
take that statement to mean that she doesn’t daytrade at all. What better time for Nat to
daytrade for her own account than in front of her paying subscribers, her 5 minute ES
daytrading charts with the seemingly accurate indicators, and all of other tools that enable
her to claim the substantial amount of ES points her site claims can be made on a daily
(daytrading) basis using her sevices, no? It would seem odd to anyone that Nat herself is
not capitalizing on all those ES points her methods make every day daytrading, or so she
claims.
You go on to state: “…but she regularly takes position trades in the ES…” Does she really?
You also go on to state: “Nat has had an active trading account continuously since
1992…since then she has been remarkably successful.” Are you prepared to prove that? Big
Mike posted above that if you’re not prepared to prove your facts then don’t state them in
his forums.
Since we now know she doesn’t daytrade for her own account (at least while in her chatroom
with her subscribers), if she really even has an account, it might be helpful to the
potential and current subscribers to post on her website that Nat makes daytrading ES calls
but does not daytrade for her own account while in her daytrading chatroom. In so doing,
the potential and current subscribers would be informed that her daytrading chatroom is
merely a daytrading call service and they know the full deal before they subscribe or
continue to subscribe. It might also save Nat legal complications since she masks herself
as an incredibly successful ES daytrader but, as you state above, she is not.
You also state: “She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?”
Thanks also for supporting my statement that she would not do so in my original post. Why
should she? Sir, with all due respect, she charges $269 per month for subscribing to a
service where she makes intraday calls off a 5 minute chart to folks who would inadvertently
believe she is eating her own cooking when, as you clearly indicate above, she is not. It
all goes to full disclosure, integrity and credibility especially considering the claims of
daily success posted daily on her site. Your statement and her refusal to prove those
claims is additional information helpful to potential and current subscribers, thank you.
You further state: “Her main purpose is to help people trade successfully, because successful
subscribers stay in the room and unsuccessful ones drop out.” Talk about an oxymoron. She
runs a daytrading ES subscription service claiming many points that may be made every day by
subscribing to her service yet she is not a daytrader but rather a position trader? How can
she help people daytrade successfully when she doesn’t do it herself with her own technical
analysis? Enough said.
My real name is Ringo although that is not important to the cause at hand. I posted what I
have to help the unsuspecting trader out there who asked about naturus.com to make a more
educated choice by knowing important additional information. I thank you for substantiating
that. As a financial beneficiary of her site and as her husband, it is understandable why
you would be so defensive about the facts I have laid out about your wife’s services. At
the same time, as you profess yourself to be a man of high honor, while perhaps not in your
and Nat’s best financial interest to do so, do the right thing by telling your wife to make
full disclosure about herself as a trader and with respect to the accuracy of her claims on
her website.
Good luck to you and good trading to all.
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My last name is irrelevant to the issues at hand and she knows who I am. What is relevant is information concerning Nat and her services for interested traders. I stated facts in my posts concerning her services for the individual who asked about the credibility of her services in this thread. You've confirmed those facts in your posts. Nothing else needs to be said.
Nat says she has never heard of you, has no idea who you are. I have some suspicions.
But I don't blame you for not wanting to post your real name. I think it is very sensible, the first sign of intelligence is this entire conversation.
It is just that you look like a fool demanding Nat publish every detail of her financial life in a forum where you are unwilling to sign your name to your posts.
Hi, I've been reading this thread with great interest. As an observer, I don't think people like me are asking for your mortgage statement, car payment, restaurant tabs, credit card statement, etc. And I don't think I'm being FOOLISH asking for it. I would say it is DUE DILIGENCE on our part.
I want to see the DAY TRADING STATEMENTS...why is that hard for you to understand?!!!
This is futures.io (formerly BMT)...you are held at a higher level of INTEGRITY!!!
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
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You are free to scroll through every post I've made in this thread. In NOT ONE of them have I demanded or requested that she post anything much less ANY detail of her financial life.
You seem to be the one lacking in understanding and intelligence. I have posted in a manner that is quite easy to understand for the unbiased reader.
As for your comment that I "look like a fool", while your logic for calling me that is erroneous, if given the choice I would much rather be a fool than a crook who takes people's money under questionable pretenses and claims. At least I can sleep comfortably at night. It is sad that you have to resort to calling folks names but it is also clear why you have to resort to that type of tactic.
The song remains the same. There is nothing new here. Just another example of a vendor who claims to trade in a cash account but refuses to prove it while asking for your money to get "educated." In this instance, we have an unemployed spouse coming to the breadwinner's rescue and gets offended that his wife's integrity is challenged.
According to Tundi's rules of vendor engagement, I rate this as: AVOID.
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These three posts pretty much explain why serious people don't bother w discussions like this. I'm trying to remember how I got sucked into it.
1. Peter, the high standards of integrity demanded here obviously don't extend to the posters, who use anonymity to repeat malicious falsehoods and broadcast insults. They seem like mice who want to be rats, but lack the courage.
For anyone who wants to look, the details of Nat's calls are posted on her website every day. It is exactly her financial statements they want to see. Not gonna happen.
2. Tundi, I somehow suspect you will never experience first-hand the difference between being unemployed and being retired. And how do you react when your wife's integrity is impugned?
3. Ringo Whatsisname: All bluster and bullroar, as usual. Give my best to Paul when you see him.
1. Bill if you didn't want to get sucked in then your solution is simple. STOP RESPONDING.
2. As to someone questioning your wifes integrity. If you both can't stand that, she is in the wrong business. Good bad or awful, that will be a fact of life.
3. Everyone else. ENOUGH, all you are doing is providing free advertising.
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Moderator Notice
The back and forth bickering and arguing will stop now. That is not what this forum is about. I suggest that everyone involved stop posting, they've said what they wanted to say, any further discussion from these individuals on this thread is just mud throwing instead of anything constructive and positive.
when i was in the room, i never heard or cared about asking for the owner's spouse. for the spouse to come on this forum as her spokesman, is outrageous. he is no2 to her in trading and i think let her do her own talking.
naturus running the service and charging for it, is a public service. she doesnt volunteer anything. people pay for a service that has unclear results. yes her results are posted but when i was in the room. nothing was really clear.
if she is such a gr8 trader, why sell her socalled signals. she can double size and make much mo money.
Nat is terrible. Bitchy, grouchy, full of BS is an understatement. I was in her room for 4 months and did not get one call...half way through a trade she would say "If you're not short from 14XX you missed out!" Okay so does this mean you shorted at 14XX? Does this mean it's about to turn around? Does this mean it will be flat for the remainder of the day?
You're simply wasting your money with this one...as an experienced trader I would say find your niche, your edge, and go with that! There are a lot of good trading rooms out there you can try out for free and bounce good questions off some more experienced traders...Nat is not one of them!
I can tell you unequivocally that she did not eat her own cooking. Her site infers a subscriber, assuming the subscriber trades everything according to what Nat calls, could earn gobs of money everyday. Is this deceptive, unrealistic (to good to be true), or even possible? One has to decide for him or herself if considering subscribing to naturus.com services.
I've told the truth, now how about you?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." --- "Therefore, I Believe it and I will see it. And every day and in every way, I am healthier, wealthier, and wiser."
