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Naturus Trading (www.naturus.com)
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Naturus Trading (www.naturus.com)

  #31 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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wdampier View Post
This post contains statements and personal attacks that are defamatory and untrue, posted by a former friend gone sour and vindictive.

Mike's official policy is that I am not permotted to respond. I am asking what action he intends to take about this.

bill dampier

start with her most recent brokerage statements would be good.

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  #32 (permalink)
Just starting out...
USA
 
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www.naturus.com

1) Untrue? With all due respect, my post contains nothing but the absolute truth and facts as prefaced in my original post. I responded with factual information when someone asked about her services.

2) Defamatory? Not in the least. In fact, Nat makes great calls. Whether they are timely or not, whether they are real or not, whether the subscriber can make any money consistently from them is up to him or her to find out for him or her self as I posted. There are a number of posts on other forums, including this one, that bring up these issues from former/current subscribers. None of this is new.

3) A former friend gone sour and vindictive? I said in my original post I have nothing against Nat. Again, just truthful and factual information was posted.

wdampier, huh? You wouldn't happen to be her husband would you? I've told the truth, now how about you?

My post was meant as nothing more than truthful and unbiased information. Anyone is free to subscribe to her service as well as any other trading service with my hope that it is a profitable experience for them.

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  #33 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
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Moderator Note


I would like to remind everyone that when discussing topics of this nature, if you are stating something as a fact and not opinion, you need to back those statements up with proof. So if you make a claim, prove it, otherwise do not make the claim.

When discussing your past experiences, good and bad, make it clear they are your opinion only.

Last, if you believe any post is violating our terms and conditions of the site, use the Report Post feature to the right of every post to alert the moderators. As always, you should form your own opinions about a service and not rely solely on what someone else has said.




Mike

Due to time constraints, please do not PM me if your question can be resolved or answered on the forum.

Need help?
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  #34 (permalink)
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I think all vendors who sell trading systems, trade calls,or room trading signals are bogus unless proven otherwise.

The burden of proof is on the vendor, not the customer, to show they are indeed taking real money trades unless the vendor states clearly and unequivocally, they are not trading in cash, trading in Sim mode, or not trading in any mode.

Vendors will give you a million reasons till Sunday (all of which are BS) why they can't produce real trading statements. The fact is nothing within the laws of the US prevents them from proving they are trading with cash and not monopoly money.

The mere fact they refuse to show bona fide evidence of real trades is prima facie evidence they are hiding something, namely the truth.

STAY AWAY FROM ANY VENDOR WHO CLAIMS TO TRADE WITH REAL MONEY YET WON'T PROVE IT REGARDLESS OF THEIR EXCUSES. If you follow this advice, you will, in all likelihood, never spend a cent on a charlatan.

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  #35 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.naturus.com 
Toronto
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Trader Workstation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2010
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The facts

"When I knew her, she lived in Toronto in a small apartment..."

Nat Has lived in the same condo on the edge of the Toronto financial district for 20 years. A family of 6 might find it small, but it seems spacious to the two of us. The hotel across the street charges $450 a night for 1/10th of the space. No mortgage. She also owns property in Shanghai and Hong Kong. No mortgages there either.

"... her husband was older and he couldn't work..."

That would be me. I worked for 40 years aas a journalist and won the Canadian equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize and edited the Engish-language publication of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences. I hsve been retired for 2 years now with a comfortable pension -- not that it is any of your business. I have never been out of work a day in my life.

"... so money was tight."

We are not wealthy, but I have never known a time when we could not afford to buy what we want. That is none of your business too.

That is three untruths in a single sentence. There is more:

"Nat will NEVER reveal her own private trades because she doesn't trade for her own account or anyone's account. In fact, at the time I knew her, she confessed she didn't have an account with ANY futures broker or an investment account of any kind. She had tried trading in the past and lost money at it. Since she herself is not a successful ES trader and couldn't afford to lose any capital she decided to make money by providing a subscription service to ES traders with her charting, tools, and calls. She asked several traders to help her start naturus.com but when they found out that she wasn't herself actually trading, they decided they wouldn't participate."

Nat has had an active trading account continuously since 1992. When she first started trading she lost money -- who doesn't?. Since then she has been remarkably successful. That's why she doesn't have to worry about a mortgage.

She does not day-trade the ES while she is running the chat room, but she regularly takes position trades in the ES, oil and gold and makes money at them.

She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?

She began running a chat room when she was hired by the Trending 123 website to manage their e-mini trading room. She later took it over as her own by mutual agreement. She did not ask anyone to help establish naturus.com.

Her main purpose is to help people trade successfully, because successful subscribers stay in the room and unsuccessful ones drop out. Most of her subscribers have beeen members for more than a year, and many have been members for 5 years.

She has never traded George Angell's LSS system (it is actually George Douglass Taylor's LSS sytem).

She doesn't tell anyone they can make gobs of money trading her calls ... just the opposite. She warns eveyone considering membership that trading is difficult and that they will have to spend a lot of time learning before they can expect to be profitable. Anyone who thinks they can start on Monday and be making money by Friday never got that message from her.

Bill Dampier

(That's my real name Ringo. What's yours?)


Last edited by wdampier; February 27th, 2011 at 03:33 PM. Reason: fix typos
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  #36 (permalink)
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wdampier View Post

She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?


To me the reason is simple. She is saying, pay her to be in the room, so she can teach me to trade. Is it so unreasonable to ask for some kind of proof that she can deliver.

For sure her success is no guarantee of my success, but if she can't trade can she really teach me. I'd like to know she is trading successfully.

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  #37 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
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wdampier View Post
"..
She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?

..

all you need is deleting out name, account number and address at top of the statement like this.

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  #38 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.naturus.com 
Toronto
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Trader Workstation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2010
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Peter2150 View Post
To me the reason is simple. She is saying, pay her to be in the room, so she can teach me to trade. Is it so unreasonable to ask for some kind of proof that she can deliver.

For sure her success is no guarantee of my success, but if she can't trade can she really teach me. I'd like to know she is trading successfully.

I wasn't going to comment any further on this thread Peter, but you ask a reasonable question in a reasonable way, so I'll make an attempt to respond.

From a vendor's perspective, there is very little upside to sharing personal information of this nature, and a very large downside.

The upside is that it reassures potential clients, removes an area of doubt. It is almost entirely irrelevant to the potential client's success or failure, as you point out correctly, so it is false reassurance ... but comforting nonetheless.

The downside is that for us it is intrusive and dangerous. We aren't Goldman Saks; when Nat providesn her personal trading records it is not mixed in with a dozen others. It is her personal information and she is sharing not just privately w you, but publicly with everyone who can read, not just now but forever.

(And obscuring the name and account number is no protection. Anyone who is interested can find details of her persoanl information in minutes).

She's just not gonna do it. You wouldn't do it either, in her place -- especially since providing that information will not make a blind bit of difference.

The simple fact is that the large majority of people who try trading, and especially day-trading, will fail. (This is not unique to trading, it is true of any difficult skill; think how many people take piano lessons and how few are able to perform in public.)

The universe of failures is much larger than the universe of successes, and much more vocal. Successful traders rarely talk about trading in detail, and almost never comment publicly in forums like this.

Human nature being what it is, the failures look for excuses outside of themselves to explain their lack of success, and the easiest scapegoat is to blame the lousy teacher.

The result is threads like this one, which encourages petty and vindictive anonymous comments, but doesn't really enlighten anyone about the difficult and frustrating processs of becoming a trader. It is certainly not a venue that any sensible person would use to tell the world the most intimate details of her financial life.

-- Bill Dampier

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  #39 (permalink)
Just starting out...
USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 5 since Feb 2011
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At least we've made progress - naturus.com

The purpose of my original post was to simply inform folks that Naturus, who is the
moderator and main “trader” of an ES DAYTRADING service, does not , IN FACT, use her own
daytrading calls to trade for her own account. It was not to go off on the many tangents
and issues you set forth above in your post. I stated some of those personal facts to let
folks know I had direct interaction with Nat long enough for her to disclose these facts to
me directly and personally. I have nothing to win or lose by disclosing this information to
the trading community.

You, Mr. Dampier, as her husband and one who seemingly has taken the position as her public
relations representative (too bad we couldn’t hear from the horse herself) stated in your
most recent post above:

“She does not day-trade the ES while she is running the chatroom…”

Thank you for clarifying that and substantiating the main thesis of my posts. Your statement
is honorable and I’m sure many appreciate now knowing a bit more truth. However, I would
take that statement to mean that she doesn’t daytrade at all. What better time for Nat to
daytrade for her own account than in front of her paying subscribers, her 5 minute ES
daytrading charts with the seemingly accurate indicators, and all of other tools that enable
her to claim the substantial amount of ES points her site claims can be made on a daily
(daytrading) basis using her sevices, no? It would seem odd to anyone that Nat herself is
not capitalizing on all those ES points her methods make every day daytrading, or so she
claims.

You go on to state: “…but she regularly takes position trades in the ES…” Does she really?
You also go on to state: “Nat has had an active trading account continuously since
1992…since then she has been remarkably successful.” Are you prepared to prove that? Big
Mike posted above that if you’re not prepared to prove your facts then don’t state them in
his forums.

Since we now know she doesn’t daytrade for her own account (at least while in her chatroom
with her subscribers), if she really even has an account, it might be helpful to the
potential and current subscribers to post on her website that Nat makes daytrading ES calls
but does not daytrade for her own account while in her daytrading chatroom. In so doing,
the potential and current subscribers would be informed that her daytrading chatroom is
merely a daytrading call service and they know the full deal before they subscribe or
continue to subscribe. It might also save Nat legal complications since she masks herself
as an incredibly successful ES daytrader but, as you state above, she is not.

You also state: “She will not show you her brokerage accounts. Ever. Why should she?”
Thanks also for supporting my statement that she would not do so in my original post. Why
should she? Sir, with all due respect, she charges $269 per month for subscribing to a
service where she makes intraday calls off a 5 minute chart to folks who would inadvertently
believe she is eating her own cooking when, as you clearly indicate above, she is not. It
all goes to full disclosure, integrity and credibility especially considering the claims of
daily success posted daily on her site. Your statement and her refusal to prove those
claims is additional information helpful to potential and current subscribers, thank you.

You further state: “Her main purpose is to help people trade successfully, because successful
subscribers stay in the room and unsuccessful ones drop out.” Talk about an oxymoron. She
runs a daytrading ES subscription service claiming many points that may be made every day by
subscribing to her service yet she is not a daytrader but rather a position trader? How can
she help people daytrade successfully when she doesn’t do it herself with her own technical
analysis? Enough said.

My real name is Ringo although that is not important to the cause at hand. I posted what I
have to help the unsuspecting trader out there who asked about naturus.com to make a more
educated choice by knowing important additional information. I thank you for substantiating
that. As a financial beneficiary of her site and as her husband, it is understandable why
you would be so defensive about the facts I have laid out about your wife’s services. At
the same time, as you profess yourself to be a man of high honor, while perhaps not in your
and Nat’s best financial interest to do so, do the right thing by telling your wife to make
full disclosure about herself as a trader and with respect to the accuracy of her claims on
her website.

Good luck to you and good trading to all.

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  #40 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.naturus.com 
Toronto
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Trader Workstation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 0 received

Howdy Ringo



Ringo View Post
My real name is Ringo.

What's your last name, Starr?

Nat has never had any significant interaction with anyone named "Ringo."

Either you are wrong about your name or wrong about your "facts."

-- Bill Dampier

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