Do you offer day trade margins?

@Earn2Trade

Big question here. What if we use various time frames in our trading styles? Will we get marked down?

For example, I may usually daytrade CL (Crude Oil) but when I see it hit some longer term support/resistance I may decide to hold it for a swing trade... So instead of the usual 20-40 ticks profit from daytrade, you may suddenly see 0 ticks for the days held for the swing trade, and then suddenly a few hundred tick profit (hopefully or maybe 100++ tick loss).

Does that count as inconsistency? Or it does not matter much as long as these are described as a possibility in the plan? Thanks!

Hi Ryan,

Re: your 60 day trial:

For trading FX,
1 Can I trade using Ninjatrader / FXCM (which is available to me as a mon-US trader)
2 What Margin is possible? Are the Margin rules the same as designated by FXCM?
3 Can I use Ninja with with my own indicators?
4. Can I use another known Forex broker, registered with Australian and/or UK authorities?

For Futures:
Can I use Ninja with with my own indicators and linked to Dorman?

Should I be granted funds to trade, post-60 days, must I use a specific broker or platform?
If yes, what are the RTurn fees for Spot FX?
If no, can I assume that the current RTurn fees apply as set by my preferred broker?

thank you
Sienna

OANDA is only available via NT8.

That's a surprise, because Oanda's own "advanced charting package" is a white-label version of TradingView - wondering why that isn't available?

So maybe I am confused here, can I use NinjaTrader 8, as that is my current platform?

As far as taxes go, is this taxed as ordinary income, short term capital gains, or the preferred futures tax rate?

thanks

So sorry for the delayed response. Never got a notice of this post.
To answer your questions:

1) Yes you can use NT8 as long as you have a paid license and it supports Rithmic.
2) The income for futures would be passed through as short/long term capital gains, which is how futures are taxed.

Is there a reason we have to use rithmic data feed?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Can I use Motivewave? Can I use MW and NT8 in the same Gauntlet? Can you present a sample of a trader describing their style?

Hi @Earn2Trade, Ryan, a few questions on Forex for you:

1. What is the spread/commission structure? Is everything spread based, or is there a discounted spread plus commission? Is this consistent in both the Gauntlet and Funding stages?
2. I understand that spreads will increase/decrease based on liquidity conditions but do you have any data on average spreads? I am specifically interested in spreads for EURUSD, GBPUSD, USDJPY, & USDCAD.
3. How does position sizing work? I'm currently with Oanda and can trade any trade size (within margin requirements of course). Does this also apply to the Gauntlet/Funding, or do specific lot sizes have to be used?

Thanks!

What are the commissions for equity futures in the funded account?

It depends on what platform you want to use. What would you be looking to trade on?

TT or Sierra Charts

Hi
gauntlet = drawdown 2500, target 2500, 30 days, $349, split 80-20
Oneup = 2500, 3000, 15 days, $120, 100% first $5000
Why i choose gauntlet?

Dear Traders & Aspiring Traders,



3) 60 Calendar Day Evaluation Period with Mandatory 30 Trading Days and Minimum One Unique Trade Per Week
While this has not been an issue for most of our Intraday candidates, many of our Overnight candidates have been trading at a very limited, if negligible pace. In particular, we’ve had many cases of traders opening and closing the same position week after week, effectively holding the same position over an entire 60 days. While we don’t frown upon this trading style in theory, in practice it doesn’t provide our proprietary trading associates with enough information to effectively evaluate the candidate over the 60 day period.


We look forward to serving you and helping you on your journey to becoming a professional trader.

What is this "Minimum One Unique Trade Per Week"???

Is the 10 percent drawdown an end of day or end of week or live during the day?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Any changes been made to the income being treated the same as if I were trading futures?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Can we have multiple trading plans in one Gauntlet?

For example, I am a scalper and I have multiple strategies based on context and market conditions. I also have intraday position hold strategies that use entries that do not happen that often, maybe once or twice a week.

Is it possible to write up a detailed plan with both base strategies, my risk management, the context around when I trade.

What are the amount of size we can trade in the Gauntlet and live on the 10k and 25k?



Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Have you known anyone to get the full 25k 80/20 offer?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

@Earn2Trade A question for you guys — I think about going for the Gauntlet right now. Assuming I submit a dedicated journal about it here for the contest would you be willing to refund the gauntlet fee in the unlikely event that I “win” the journal contest? Probably won’t skew my decision either way but nice to know in advance.

Cheers, ST.

Yes we absolutely can!

That's awesome! Another couple questions that I haven't seen an answer to:

1) Margin at Ninjatrader. I understand that the issue with OCO through Rithmic is that both orders are at the exchange, thus 2x overnight margin requirement per contract traded. Can you check/confirm that, if I use the "Market-if-touched" functionality with @NinjaTrader (holding the limit order locally until a market order is triggered to close the position) this margin multiplication does not take place? i.e. 1 contract long + sell stop market + sell limit (MIT) = 1x overnight margin.

2) looking at the live account - are the professional fees due once for the entire CME group or for each exchange individually? With non-professional there is individual & bundle options so I am unsure which applies here..

3) also live account ... is a review of the account & potential increase in leverage + drawdown limits contingent on retaining profits in the live account? This is one of the core reasons why TST & 1Up imho fail to be an attractive option for live trading, as you cannot get paid and grow your account at the same time. So from an opportunity standpoint no benefits compared to trading your own account (assuming you have 2-3k to spare).

I am sure there will be more questions over time, but for now that'll be it

Thanks a ton,
ST.

1) You'd need to check with NT on this but from what I understand of how they work, an MIT order is held locally so I wouldn't think it would need extra margin. That said, please check with NT since it's their platform before you sign up! I don't want you to have the wrong info.

1) Margin at Ninjatrader. I understand that the issue with OCO through Rithmic is that both orders are at the exchange, thus 2x overnight margin requirement per contract traded.

Can you check/confirm that, if I use the "Market-if-touched" functionality with @NinjaTrader (holding the limit order locally until a market order is triggered to close the position) this margin multiplication does not take place? i.e. 1 contract long + sell stop market + sell limit (MIT) = 1x overnight margin.

The above statement is incorrect. You will only need 1X margin NOT 2X. Additionally, overnight margin is NOT used for working orders, only open positions. So in the case of NinjaTrader Brokerage, it would be $500 margin on ES.

As above, you only need 1X margin. So in the case of a working STOP MARKET and LIMIT, only 1X is required. Same is true if you use a STOP MARKET and MIT, 1X is still only required.

The above statement is incorrect. You will only need 1X margin NOT 2X. Additionally, overnight margin is NOT used for working orders, only open positions. So in the case of NinjaTrader Brokerage, it would be $500 margin on ES.



As above, you only need 1X margin. So in the case of a working STOP MARKET and LIMIT, only 1X is required. Same is true if you use a STOP MARKET and MIT, 1X is still only required.

Thanks @NinjaTrader. Then maybe @Earn2Trade should do some investigating on where exactly their issue is with NT platform and margins, as they seem to be unable to reproduce this as described (see their website as linked below) and seem to believe that this is a software limitation (in combination with Rithmic).

https://help.earn2trade.com/platform/how-does-margin-work-with-ninjatrader

Would be awesome if you guys could clarify/resolve this topic!

Cheers, ST.

Please see: https://help.earn2trade.com/platform/how-does-margin-work-with-ninjatrader. This has already been discussed, in depth, with NT support staff, NT brokerage staff, and Rithmic.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding or misinformation somewhere along the line, but as I understand it, my statement is not incorrect.

Rithmic RMS calculates worst case position. If you are long 1 and the ATM enters a stop and target, you only need $500 margin (for ES). The open position uses $500 and Rithmic RMS calculates the worst case position if both the stop and target are filled. In the worst case event that both orders are filled, the position would reverse resulting in a requirement of $500. Margin requirement = 1 contract, not double.

The only time it appears to require double is when the max leverage is used and the position causes the balance to go under the requirement. In those cases, only 1 order is approved to close the position. The additional order is rejected since there are insufficient funds to cover the 1 contract.

Thanks for checking.

I realize what you are doing, your account is set up to use SMAC risk settings. It’s a relatively new option with Rithmic, one that NinjaTrader Brokerage does not use.

So to summarize for accuracy, using NinjaTrader with ATM strategy:

A) At NinjaTrader Brokerage and any other FCM that uses worst case position risk in Rithmic RMS, a 1X margin requirement is used

B) Any Rithmic instance that uses the SMAC risk settings are subject to 2X margin requirement

Thanks for the questions!
if you hit your 10% and completely change your trading style to limit your trading until the 60 days it up, this will reflect poorly and you are likely to receive a lower funding offer. To receive the best possible offer you should continue trading with the same style and frequency throughout the entire 60 day period.

Not trying to be a pain here but @Earn2Trade - is SMAC absolutely necessary for your purposes?

As soon as I make the necessary 10% profit, my risk of losing this profit will be many times greater than the reward to improve the conditions of your offer.
There is NO POINT in trading the same style further. We are traders, and we must correctly assess the risks.
"Trade a minimum of 30 Calendar days and once per week"
Is this rule not enough for the trader to show his skills?
Ok, let it be 40 days, but why force it to trade further? This is contrary to common sense.
Change your opinion about this, please
And I will be yours

Thanks for checking.

I realize what you are doing, your account is set up to use SMAC risk settings. It’s a relatively new option with Rithmic, one that NinjaTrader Brokerage does not use.

So to summarize for accuracy, using NinjaTrader with ATM strategy:

A) At NinjaTrader Brokerage and any other FCM that uses worst case position risk in Rithmic RMS, a 1X margin requirement is used

B) Any Rithmic instance that uses the SMAC risk settings are subject to 2X margin requirement

And, I would add, what's the point of it? Obviously there has to be one, so what is being accomplished with it? It seems to be an extreme safeguard for the FCM, but apparently is not widely used, because it was described as a new option with Rithmic.

I would add the question, for anyone familiar with it, of whether other FCM's, using Rithmic or not, do something similar. In other words, is it industry standard practice?

Bob.

I tested it last night with other risk algo's too. I'm being told by the person that wrote the Rithmic software (for a 3x position):

"I don't think the algorithm matters, I would expect the same behavior if you use SMAC or Margin and Quantity Limits.

The Target and Stop are both free if you use Rithmic Server Side Brackets. I could be wrong, but I believe that Ninja chooses not to use Rithmic Server Side Brackets, which means if you are using Ninja then it would be 3x for the position + the first exit order is free and the other exit order (i.e. the stop) is not free so another 3x."

I'm going to test it again this morning and report back.

Deal breaker for those of us that use Ninja - can't trade multiple contracts with that large of a margin requirement.

Many of our users still use NinjaTrader. You can absolutely trade multiple contracts, just can't use a bracket with a target and stop if you're going to use your max available number of contracts. In addition, with this volatility, many traders are using a lot lower trade sizes.

Good points, but still, if a trader wants to have a stop and target entered automatically and then let the trade management be handled by those orders, it will crimp their style somewhat, because one of the sides of the OCO will require an extra 1X margin per contract, which could be a significant limitation in terms of the size available, depending on how the trader trades.

Bob.

We tested as well, from our VP of Trading Operations:

I confirmed the risk settings we use only require 1x margin. I set the error account to $800 and was able to use a bracket on a 1 lot of ES ($500 margin). The risk algo Ryan uses specifically requires 2x margin because of the way it it is designed to manage spread symbols.

So what I will attest to is that at NinjaTrader Brokerage using Rithmic, you will have 1X margin.

If they really need to max their margin, yes, that's true.

They would only be maxing their margin because using ATM on Ninja with you currently requires $14,000 margin (using the NQ from your example). That means even somebody offered the full $25,000 deal could only trade a one lot as things currently stand. If I have read this correctly.

Good news is, this doesn't matter anymore. Rithmic is fixing a bug in SMAC (the Rithmic risk algo we use) so that it won't use extra margin when NT trades it. If someone joins before they fix it and you only trade a handful of assets, please let our support know and we have a work around that Rithmic gave us that we can do for your account to fix it

Good news is, this doesn't matter anymore. Rithmic is fixing a bug in SMAC (the Rithmic risk algo we use) so that it won't use extra margin when NT trades it. If someone joins before they fix it and you only trade a handful of assets, please let our support know and we have a work around that Rithmic gave us that we can do for your account to fix it

Hi. I just wanted to be clear. I have someone I have been mentoring that might want to try The Gauntlet..but really wants to stick with the Ninja Chart Trader because of certain indicators..etc.
Are you saying you have a solution..or will in the near future that eliminates the double margin issues that been brought up? The instruments he will be trading are CL, NQ and YM.

For the Gauntlet, you mentioned there is a 10% drawdown ($2500). Trying to understand it better.

Is this in relation to the initial balance only, or does it technically trail? For example, if I'm starting out with a $25,000 account and make $5000, is my max drawn down $2500 (meaning if my account dips under $27,500, I'm out)? Or is my max draw down $7000 ($5000 + $2500)?

I guess I'm asking is the drawdown $2500 at any given time in relation to the initial balance or the $2500 follows the profit? Or basically the account can never go below $22,500 period no matter what you do. You can tell I'm a little confused. lol.

do we know of anyone in the futures.io community actively going through the earn2trade bootcamp?

considering the black friday deal (only way i'd even consider it to be honest, its still out of my budget, but tempted none-the-less. I'd really like to hear some feedback from someone who is already doing it before making a decision though.

I see some gauntlet journals, but nothing bootcamp related.

as it doesn't seem to be restricted in any way , here it is :

BLKCAMP

valid until 27th

Ryan,

It is a shame that NT8 chose to cancel their relationship with your company. Topstep must have gotten their panties in a wad because why would NT simply leave a money making relationship with a vendor like you. Well, I will be checking out AgenaTrader as an NT8 alternative. Unfortunate! All the best, Ryan!

I was wondering anyone had a suggestion for using Ninja for charting, but executing trades on another platform. Someone I have helped with their trading wants to do the Gauntlet, but needs Ninja for their indicators etc. Just wondered what might be a good platform to pull up the trade execution window and have it next to a Ninja chart. Would that use up too much of a P.C.'s resources to have two platforms going?

I use R Trader Pro DOMs for practice with NT8 charts up. You can get a 30 day free feed with R Trader from Dormantrading.com. I'm going to do the Gauntlet in January. Works fine for me. The RT DOMs take a little getting used to, but once you set them up and get familiar with them, I really like them.

I'm using a Dell laptop with a large monitor connected, and it's only an i5 chip but it does have 24GB RAM. Works fine.