I am really sorry, I'm not trying to dodge the question.
In cases like yourself, unfortunately, the LiveSim rules overrule anything else. The LiveSim rules have their own FAQ on the Earn2Trade website. The situation you are describing is basically on the premise that Helios would provide an account with no data, which they can't do in the case of a LiveSim.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com
1-888-502-2260 Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
This is a really interestig question and I suspect that the reason is like you say, many new traders blow up their account so for the first $5kit actually makes sense to pay out the $5k from the firms capital.
My question then becomes given that the the live sim message has been up at least since at lesst November 1, how much is the firm willing to pay out until it can get its new partner straigntehed out. I suspect for many traders $5k in a few months time would be very optimisitic, but then there is the smaller percentage who can bank that much in a week or a few days on larger funded accounts.
It begins to make me question credibility to think that a firm would continuously pay out real funds based on paper profits from a sim account for months at a time. Are there that few succeslful traders that make this a viable option? Should I hang it up given that the business model allows a gaurantee of real money for paper profits, meaning so few people are successful it is not an issue for the firm? Its a discouraging message and I am beginning to become concerned I may have wasted my money.
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@BertV I'm no expert on this business model but it seems that if they can hedge the net position of sim traders while collecting evaluation subscription fees then it could still be profitable.
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I understand that this seems to be a pain point, but you do seem like you are misquoting me.
I have on multiple occasion explained that the CME charges $105 per exchange, per month and per session on sim accounts as well for traders who qualify as professional, which at a prop firm, they do. I'm not sure how many ways more I can explain that.
I do not know or am able to comment on what other traders at other firms do. I'm sorry that you seem to think this is corporate-speak, but that's the case. Neither am I insinuating anything, I reject that.
The majority of Gauntlet customers self-certify as non-professional. In fact, people who certify as professionals, we do charge them extra, the exact same amount ($105/month/session/exchange).
You should also know that even if you qualify as a non-professional, but you require 3 sessions, you are immediately re-certified as pro and the CME will charge the $105 price.
I hope that made the situation clearer.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com
1-888-502-2260 Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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I won't even ask the question but let me guess the answer is "2 more weeks"? You have stated that it takes time to get set up blah blah blah. Is this a brand new company Ryan is starting so you have to figure it all out. It seems if you were simply partnering with a new previously established firm they would have all of the details in place from day one as they would already have many accounts, many more than the relatively few i suspect ET2 will be sending their way.
btw you still haven't answered my questions I've asked 4 times, i won't waste my time reposting them if you really care to you can look back and reread the posts paying attention to detail
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Not sure how much interest there is in this, but E2T is having very good sale now on the mini gauntlet, 50% off per month until you pass or cancel. It's a pretty good deal if you are considering a combine and are looking for a sale. I took advantage of a similar deal last month and I am glad I did.
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How does the trailing max drawdown work on a funded account? For example say you have a $75,000 funded account and the starting trailing drawdown is $2750.
You have a successful first week and make $3000 which would erase your trailing max drawdown. You would like to enjoy the gains and withdraw your cut of $2400 as e2t takes their $600.
So you are back to $75,000 with no trailing max drawdown. Do I have this right so far?
Then say your next trade you take any loss your account would be closed because you dip below $75,000?
You are right on your example, the Trailing Drawdown is going to move only with your profits until it reaches the account starting balance, from there on it's not going to move even if you withdraw. If at any point on the live account your account balance reaches the Trailing Drawdown amount your account will be canceled.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com
1-888-502-2260 Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Continuing with the same example for simplcity, say I recover the drawdown and am up another $3000, back to where I was before the drawdown. does earn2 trade take 20% from that gain as well, in addition to the 20% from the gain prior to the drawdown?
So they only withdraw when you withdraw? THat doesn't sound right, forgive me if I am wrong. What if I have $20,000 in gains and I haven't withdrawn? I don't think they would let $4k sit there at risk, would they?
I am confused regarding the status of this company. I like their structure as it relates to tax treatment.
However I am concerned regarding the fraud allegations of the founder. Also it seams that their funding partner (Helios) is no longer and a new partner dose not exist . . .
Perhaps I have misinterpreted what has been written in this thread. Can someone please enlighten me ?
Is there anyone who is currently funded with them who can provide their perspective.
from what has been stated on this thread and on their website, they are allowing anyone who passes the gauntlet to trade in a sim account until the new partner is up and running. I agree with you about the structure, which is why I opted for this one over others. I am already in the mini at a nice discount so don't want to jump ship now, but honestly did not realize what I was getting in to with the lack of a funding partner at the time, so I do have some concerns now. I will ceratinly share my experieinces if I pass.
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Assuming it works as it used to months ago, I asked them and it was either 20% when you withdraw or they take it once a month at month end on anything you have made but not yet withdrawn. But never 20% twice. So if you had $20K in gains you'd get your 20% taken out at the month end, leaving you $16K. Assuming you did nothing else but withdrew that the following month, you'd get the full $16K since you already paid 20% on it.
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Correct but it’s only up to 5K then they cut you off. I think it’s funny that she’s no longer replying to these posts, somebody else is. This whole shenanigan has been going on since April I think it’s coming to an end.
Who are the principals of this company ?
Who are the owners ? Who are the officers ?
Where (State) is this company organized ?
Organized as : Partnership ? LLC ? Corporation ?
What licenses are held by this organization ?
What is the current status (with States, Feds, Regulatory Agencies, etc.) of this organization ?
Someone with Earn2Trade please remove the Smoke & Mirrors that appear in this thread.
I think the word I'm looking for is "Transparency" ?
Please provide a list of current clients who are willing to talk to prospective clients regarding your business practices .
Rick
rickr
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... but charging such users of sim accounts CME data fees during this period, while many of their competitors don't, under similar circumstances.
While not predicting that "it's coming to an end" - as theorized above - I do find their apparent lack of concern about that, or at least their lack of willingness to do anything about it, very strange and off-putting. (Who wouldn't?).
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Yes but to be honest that is not a great concern of mine, I only trade index futures so $105 per month is not a big deal. I am not a lawyer, and I am not going to fight this. My major concern is that my financial reward for working hard to pass the mini guantlet may now be very limited. I did clear one item up on their chat. The sim account is not limited to $5k profit because of the circumstances.
I am very close to passing, am well above the profit target and just have to trade the remaining number of days and follow the rules. I really hope that earn2trade gets a parner firm soon. As I said I have worked really hard, the path to succes has been very tough for me and I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I have overcome adversity before so this wouldn't be the end but just another (avoidable) obstacle in my path.
On the positive side, I have to say that I really have no complaints about the product or company from a user perspective. The rules have helped me become a better trader, and the customer service is very responsive. I am looking forward to a profitable partnership with them.
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if their livesim account is not limited to $5k because of the current circumstances, theoretically a single trader could profit and withdraw $10k, then Helios would immediately be -$8k in the hole (helios takes 20% cut).
there's no way they're exposing themselves to such risk. they're most likely hedging through some combination of copy-trades, which is shady in and of itself.
no one should be starting a E2T evaluation right now until we get transparency regarding the prop firm situation. the fact that they've been handing out 50% discounts left-and-right lately surely doesn't assuage any fears regarding a possible bust situation.
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Agreed. I'm not recommending E2T anymore. It has been too long without an update. My last passed combine is now three months old. And the lack of answer about fees for sim is plain weird.
Then I asked after the $5k in profit, would I be stuck? And the response said: You would have to wait for the new prop firm to be set up to continue, yes.
I.e. - makes no sense to continue trading after the 5k is hit.
Just for full transparency.
@Earn2Trade - I know there's no answer yet; but being in the dark for the past three months is slightly disheartening...is there an update that can be shared? I don't want to stay in limbo for too long, especially because livesim has been around for so long on the E2T website.
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yup that's what i thought originally when i read that post. there's no way E2T would allow unlimited profits in the LiveSim account unless they were secretly placing identical trades in a live account.
i'd like to be proven wrong but honestly i find it hard to believe they've secured two outside prop firms (as they mentioned before).
think about it - what non-E2T-related prop firm would be willing to risk their precious capital to fund a bunch of randos who passed a mere 15-day evaluation?
the industry standard is usually a 3+year track record that looks more intently at your risk-adjusted return rather than simply whether you made some profit target. no normal prop firm would be willing to put up capital for a bunch of randos with no track record whatsoever besides passing a 15-day evaluation, which anyone can eventually achieve with enough combine resets and luck.
this is why topsteptrader's funding prop firm is operated by they themselves.
this is why oneuptrader's funding prop firm is also operated by themselves (MES capital).
why do you think the prop firms that supposedly fund the live accounts of those who pass these evaluations are all owned and operated by the evaluation companies themselves? it's just plain common sense really.
it's telling that E2T isn't immediately clearing things up regarding the prop firm situation in this thread b/c if they actually had their ducks in order, you'd betcha they'd respond immediately to clear up any misunderstanding. instead they've been staying silent recently.
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If e2t is no longer responding to this thread what is the point of it? Clearly there is confusion they are not clearing up, yet this thread gives them an air of legitimacy that's not warranted. Maybe shut it down until there is some transparency.
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And to further muddy the waters, please be reminded that E2T offer two programs:
The 15 day Gauntlet Mini
The 60 day Gauntlet
That link above refers to the 60 day program. @dyoung, which program did you discuss with E2T support? Do we know if this $5k profit "limit" also applies to those passing the Gauntlet Mini?
If someone signs up with E2T who hasn't had the advantage of reading this thread, wouldn't that be tantamount to fraud on the part of E2T? Are they including a COMPLETE disclosure as to their situation when a person signs up or are they just hoping that the person doesn't come across a detailed thread like this or some obscure partial explanation at their website?
I think for all intents and purposes, they're out of business. Will be interesting to see if they file for bankruptcy. Traders who are caught in the mess might file for fraud.
I think the "company" is DOA (dead on arrival).
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Can you comment on this thread here? Several discrepancies and unanswered questions, lack of response. Does earn2trade still deserve this thread as a tacit endorsement?
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This i smy third post in as many days on this thread and I want to put this out there for the record. Any help anyone can provide is greatly appreciated.
I passed the $75K mini gauntlet on New Years Eve after a 2 month subscription and 3?( maybe 4) resets.
My dashboard had the message that said you passed the mini gauntlet and we will be in contact with you in 2 business days.
Since I had already passed the gauntlet and I was about to be re-billed on 1/1/21, I cancelled my subscription. I did not want to be charged another month I did not need after dropping around ~$500.00.
All of my information which indicated I had passed dissappeared from the dashboard. I logged in to NT8 and gauntlet account dissappeared as well. As I was sitting there celebrating the end of a pretty gosh darn awful year, as well as looking forward to a successful year as a funded trader, I suddenly realized all evidence of passing the gauntlet dissappeared because I did not want to get charged another month.
I immediately contacted customer service and they got back to me the morning of 1/1/21. As usual they were very responsive but confirmed they could not see my account history. They indicated that they would forward my info to the evaluation team. He went on to say that I needed to let them know I passed and that I was not supposed to cancel until the evaluation team instructed me to.
I am waiting to hear back from the evaluatin team by 1/4/21 or 1/5/21. I am sharing this for other traders as a warning and also asking for any suggestions or support from the community.
I feel like such a fool and I really hope that Earn2Trade does the right thing and not keep from getting funded. I passed the gauntlet and there should be no reason they need to bill me for another month.
Is there any reason they would not have access to my trade history? And does anyone have suggestions on how I can recover it myself?
Thank you all for your time and feedback.
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BertV, I'm shopping for a funding firm and I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience; very valuable and much appreciated. Please continue to provide updates.
I hope your hard work and money outlay is acknowledged and they're be a pathway forward for your funded trading.
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I passed the $50k Gauntlet-Mini on 22.12.2020 and received my Certificate from Earn2Trade on 23.12.2020. I also received a Welcome Email containing my Offer Letter and Trader Restricted Interest Agreement from Helios LLC on the 23.12.2020. I then cancelled my Earn2Trade $50k Gauntlet-Mini subscription as advised by Earn2Trade Support Staff. I submitted all required executed documentation to Helios on 28.12.2020. Helios also informed me that they setting up a real brokerage account in my name and not a simulated account. Normal setup times for brokerages can take much longer, but they will do their best to ensure this process goes smoothly and quickly given the process during the festive period.
I expect to receive my new account details in the coming days. So far all has run very smoothly.
I hope this helps.
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That is great to hear. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I have had a positive experience so far but am a bit anxious with regard to funding and now with my cancelling too early.
Frankly if they want to charge me another month to allow them time to evaluate my performance then so be it. But I did pass and do not believe another billed month should be necessary as the website states everyone who passed (again, which I did) will be funded. I followed all the rules and your account is automatically closed if any are broken. Why would I expect to pay for another month? The message on the dashboard says nothing about not cancelling it says you passed.
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When I believed I had passed before the official confirmation I wrote to support to inform them of this. They replied stating that they would confirm and should await an email confirmation. They also informed me to cancel my Subscription once I got the confirmation which I did. If you did do this then i am sure you will be fine.
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Exact quote from Helios: "Please understand that we are helping you setup a real brokerage account in your name! This is not a simulated account. Normal setup times for brokerages can take much longer, but we will do our best to ensure this process goes smoothly and quickly!"
My understanding is that this is a REAL LIVE Brokerage Account subject to the same parameters as the Gauntlet-Mini
I was not informed of a LiveSim account with any capped profits. Maybe they select which Traders get Live and which ones get LiveSim - just my opinion!
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That's very interesting. Thanks for the insight. I get my credentials to a livesim this upcoming week; if yours is a livesim, would love an update from you when you hear as well.
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Unfortunately I did not wait for confirmation. I was to be billed the next day (1.1.2021) and I knew there would be no refund so I cancelled my subscription. My dashboard had a message in green writing stating I passed and that I would receive an email in 2 business days with additional details.
I will have to wait and see what happens next week. Hopefully I am concerned for no reason and I will receive the email. Nothing said "don't cancel your subscription" and again, I did not want to be billed for another month that I did not need.
Not sure what the common sense in this instance is but I am being informed that my performance will not be evaluated because i cancelled before receiving confirmation. This is really infuriating and disheartening. Anyone have any suggetions?
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Earn2Trade has informed me that they will proceed with my evaluation. My dashboard indicated I met all the targets however apparently there is a disclaimer that says nothing is final until you recieve the offer in email, which I didn't. I cancelled because of the renewed billing cycle the next day with the assumption the offer would be granted.
I connected directly with Orriana who brought my cae to management. I work in customer relations and have complimented earn2trade before on their responsiveness. In this instance I think they did the right thing;its what I would have done in my professional role. I did not violate a gauntlet rule, I was guilty of an administrative error, which most contracts have a remedy process for.
I appreciate Earn2Trade for taking the high road here.
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UPDATE: I received an email from Helios Support yesterday apologizing for the delay in the opening up my Live account. The reason given is because they are still in the transition process to a new FCM. Helios has offered me the option to start with a LiveSim account or continue to wait. The LiveSim phase lasts until I make $5k in profit or until the Live brokerage account is created etc. I will not be able to withdraw more than $4k. Once I reach that threshold, I will be moved to the Live brokerage account and I can choose to withdraw my LiveSim proceeds or roll it over to the Live account.
I have not decided what I will do.
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Does this mean you can hit 5k on LiveSim but you'll need to wait for them to find another FCM and to open a funded account to actually, finally, effectively, withdraw 80% of these 5k?
I am in the same situation. I choose to trade the LiveSim account, don't want to pause my trading. I was told exactly the same thing. Once i reach the 5K I can withdraw 4K (80%) or pass it to the live account.
This is all very nice and a temporary solution, but it is not clearing the question how long it is gonna take to get the real live account. I have the feeling (and it is not more then that, no facts) that this ïn between step is just another test before they let you trade real money. Let's hope that that's the case and that there will be no delays in setting up the real live account.
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According to Helios response today, they estimate to have the transition completed by the first week of February, but they don't have a specific date to tell me.
I am checking on a couple of other points, and if all clear, then I will go ahead with the LiveSim until February or thereafter etc.
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I submitted my paperwork to helios yesterday and selected the live sim as I want to continue trading. Use of the Ninja trader platform requires an additional fee for the leader/follower system as well. Not really sure what that means, except that your orders don't get routed to the market, they go to helios to execute. Also have to pay data fees which many have commented on above.
You don't need NT8 Leader Follower for LiveSim account only in Live Account but you have to pay the $105 pm data fees which is passed thru to your account. So for me instead of starting on $50k I will be given start balance of $49895
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For the last 3 months (and 7 days) I have been waiting for the live account to restart, after trading live for just about 3 weeks. I am willing to wait more because the paying SIM doesn't look convincing to me. Particularly all the fees cannot be real.
On a different note (I apologize I never did that while I was trading live) do these guys or other similar funded trader programs provide daily and monthly statements from the FCM? Like you get when you trade your account with any broker.
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So sorry for the delay in my response! A Happy New Year to all of you on this forum and I wish you successful trading!
The prop firm will take their share each month, (even if you don't withdraw) of the profits they have not taken yet. If we take your example, yes, the prop firm will take 20% of those new profits. They will take 20% of any new profits you make, either when you withdraw, or when the month is over, but never twice.
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I am really sorry for this wait you had to go through. We will be announcing our new funding partner and FCMs soon.
I just have to mention that if you trusted the Gauntlet being real, the LiveSim is the same mechanism and the same Rithmic-provided infrastructure.
As to the "realness" of the fees, what I can say is that I wish the CME thought the same way and charged no fees on simulated trading. It is not the case though, but I think we have already covered this topic.
I'll ask the new provider about the statements for you soon!
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com
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I passed my gauntlet on 04 Jan and have submitted my paperwork. I was told my documents were fine.
Yet there is no ETA given and every ticket I open on helios zendesk, to ask for an ETA or any further information, gets closed as "SOLVED" without any response whatsoever.
I was not even given the option to chose between LiveSim or Brokerage account.
I am feeling a bit agitated, as there is no ETA given and all my tickets are just getting blatantly ignored.
A bit more transparency please.
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I ask you to please send this email again. Helios reaches out to every Gauntlet passer and respond to every email they receive, if they didn't that's a clerical error but thankfully it's easily resolved.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com
1-888-502-2260 Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
So, i finally got a response from Helios. I was told that they are switching FCM and so on. Sadly every time I ask them any questions out of the box, i just get the same response that I have been listening to for a while now. So I will try asking on a public platform instead.
I know that Helios has been setting up a new brokerage for several months now. At the same time you are denying traders that have paid for this opportunity the chance to trade Live. I would really appreciate being given a chance to have the same opportunities. Yet LiveSim would force me to take a subscription for at least $105 of costs.
I do NOT need a live datafeed, since i have my own. LiveSim can only be setup with a datafeed, whereas a live account doesnt need one.
Your competitor offers Rithmic Data without a monthly subscription and additional costs.
Since this is a simulated environment, I really do not know why you are adamant to charge money for services that are equivalent of a live environment.
If there a no additional costs involved taking the LiveSim, i would take it.
Transparency and an ETA on the brokerage setup would be highly appreciated.
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Sorry, I will not help you. I just have a question, I'm French, and I read continuously on this thread this letters: ETA. I think I understood the idea behind, but could you tell me exactly what it means? Thank you. (I precise that a Google search does not give clear answer, this letters have many interpretations on Google and what it propose do not match with our subject)
Thank you! So about that, I have seen that it will be for first weeks of February. I believe someone on this thread got the information and I read it there.
Thank you for the patience on the response. Let me address some of the things you mentioned here.
"I know that Helios has been setting up a new brokerage for several months now."
As far as I hear from the new prop firm, it isn't exactly easy to set something like the environment we need up on a short notice with a brokerage. Not only are there a large number of people that need to be processed daily, spun through the FCMs compliance, from a multitude of countries, but the technical aspect of monitoring and margining these accounts also takes extensive setup, and more importantly testing, to make sure that traders have a swift and convenient experience, the brokerage has a happy compliance and risk departments and the prop firm feels safe with their money. But these are just the technical and practical aspects, then think about negotiations on cost, commissions, who does what and where responsibilities lie. These took some time.
When all of this is done and settled, if you think about it, if you storm out of the gate and possibly cause a huge backlog with dozens if not hundreds of traders, the experience becomes even worse for you, the prop firm and the FCM, straining a brand new relationship and creating more discontent among the traders.
Please add to that a holiday and COVID, which, I understand people hate as an excuse, nonetheless they exist as hindrances.
Believe me, nobody hates this interim period more than Earn2Trade, and we don't like seeing our traders in this limbo. We tried to present an opportunity with the LiveSim and many have used and profited well, especially in December, from that solution. But we'd rather risk a bit of ill feeling because of the wait, than rush into something that crashes down on us on week 1.
"Yet LiveSim would force me to take a subscription for at least $105 of costs.
I do NOT need a live datafeed, since i have my own. LiveSim can only be setup with a datafeed, whereas a live account doesnt need one."
"Since this is a simulated environment, I really do not know why you are adamant to charge money for services that are equivalent of a live environment."
Let me address these points here. First, a professional data fee costs $105 per month per exchange per session, regardless of whether or not you trade a live account or a simulated account. I think this has been covered multiple times as a question.
Second, unfortunately as far as Helios is aware, it is against CME regulation to provide a user without data enabled, which unfortunately disallows them from providing any account with no data. It really isn't the case of the company trying to rip you off, to hammer that point home, Helios doesn't charge you directly, but takes the amount from the trading account.
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1-888-502-2260 Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Do you have any plan to change your Trailing Drawdown rule to be calculated at the end of day (like Topstep) instead of calculated intraday?
(Personally I would not consider using your service unless that change was made)
