Just one more question for you @Earn2Trade. So if I want to trade the sim Gauntlet feed as opposed to the 'live' Gauntlet feed, just check 'Trade Simulation Mode On' under 'Trade' in Sierra and that will be the sim Gauntlet feed?
Again, I really appreciate all your prompt replies and help on the connection issue.
No problem! Please do not use simulation mode in Sierra, your account will not get trades. You'll need to change the account sierra is trading into by selecting it on the DOM or chart mode.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Question on your "maintain consistency" rule. I tried chatting with support and it didnt get cleared.
On any given day you cannot count more than 30% of profit goal. I get that part. But the second part where it says that
"You do not fail, if one day accounts for more than 30% of your total profits. You have to continue trading, until that day accounts for less than 30% of your total profits."
So if you are in 50k combine you cannot count more than 900 for any particular day towards the 3000 profit. (30% of 3000=900). but say if one day you make 1050(150 more than allowed 900) and now your account balance is 3200 do you meet the target as long as other rules are met or not ? The example you posted on your site is at 80% for failed one and for the other example that passed he doesnt go over the 30% rule so there is no example of what i am talking about.
Reason for asking is cause that one day (1050) is showing up as 32.8% of the profit target which is right but do you trade until you make extra $150(the excess over 900) or do you trade until you make 3500 which will make 1050 be less than 30%. ( 1050/3500 =30%).
What would be profit target in such a case if someone goes over the 900 for single day for 50k account ?
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Hello! Is a "K1 statement" a simple resume of my profit/loss within the LLC? Or does it contain a highly detailed list of my trades? Would any European Earn2Trade partner share how they handle it with local tax authorities? Thank you very much!
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I am considering doing the Gauntlet. I already have a trading account through another broker that uses Rithmic and R Trader Pro. Would I be able to trade this account and the Gauntlet account from the same PC using R Trader Pro? If so, how does that work? Is there a way to toggle between accounts on the DOM?
Maybe I have it all wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but that's not my reading of it at all.
It seems to me that you just can't have as much as 30% profit from any individual day's results, but you could (for example) trade for 72 days, making 1% of your profit per day on each of 71 of those days, and the remaining 29% all on one day.
I can't see anything about "making a similar amount" on any days?
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Also, if you make 100% on one day, you need to make 100% for two more days. Er... if you 'mistakenly' make 200% on the third day then a new monster looms.
My take was mainly on outsized profitable days.
If you are good then you need to be consistently good.
I realized it was a hamster wheel, see my posts after such a huge day:
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Hi guys,
It is my pleasure to welcome Chris Gray for our 396th webinar event, on Tuesday, July 28th @ 4:30 PM Eastern US.
The title for the event is "Getting Comfortable with Price Action Patterns", and bullet points include:
- Chris defines the price action concept as it applies to futures trading.
- Buckle up for a visual ride of commonly occurring patterns used by traders on a daily basis with successful results.
- Covering and applying entries to some of the most iconic patterns such as: "head and shoulders", "rounding bottom", "bullish rectangle", and more!
Doing a 50K Gauntlet right now. Traded seven days so far and up right at 2k ($1,959.12). Just need another 1k over the next 8 days. If I knew I wasn't going to have any drawdown I would have done the 25k and I would have passed today. lol. I did the 50K for the higher daily drawdown ($1100 vs $550 for the 25K).
Averaging $280 a day net. If I keep that up I'll pass Friday, but I'll still have to trade another 4 days after that to account for 15 days of trading.
Hey Ryan, can I convert my account to a 25k and count it as passed?
Hi, I trying to choose between trying this or using my own money, I have a couple of questions:
- What's the point of saying "25k accounts" if you are only allowed to trade 2 o 3 contracts? With intraday margins you'll never reach that number (I think)
- How much money does Helios is actually risking per trader?
- Are you guys evaluating a solution for Sierra Charts users? I'm not confortable using a not officially supported data connection.
I'm using Sierra and just passed. Rithmic works fine with it. But I couldn't use my AMP login and run Rithmic. I had to get a login directly from Sierra and pay $26 a month for charting from them to get the feed to work.
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There's a specific thread on the Sierra help forums that deal with it. Some package you have to install and create a folder and put it in it. I'll see if I can find the thread. But I'm also thinking on later versions now, you don't have to do that, but not sure. There's something you have to check when you install that installs it now I think. I went through so much I can't remember half of it now. But once I got it all done I found it wasn't working because I had the wrong Rithmic feed selected. lol.
And once you get all that done you have to make sure you don't have 'sim' checked under the trading tab.
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I was given credentials by E2T. And no, the bridge files don't exist on that forum anymore. I got the bridge files by going to old versions and downloading the optional components. It could be that the files (now removed) on the forum were updated from what I am able to get installing old versions.
When you say your own Sierra account you mean one you've gotten directly from Sierra, right? So you're saying it doesn't hook up at all? All you get is an error message? What does it say?
MY problem ended up being I didn't have the right Rithmic feed selected. And make sure you have your user and pass right. And make sure you don't have sim checked under the Trade tab. I'm gonna go to my computer and check.
And with the bridge files you did create the folder with the name they told you and installed the files in there?
It may be soon or it may be a little while. I'll get back with you. But answer those questions if you will. I used to be in tech support in another life working for Lotus. We'll see if we can't get you hooked up. lol.
Yeah, directly from Sierra. Error message is - "Connection error message from service: Rithmic Trading | Logon error received from server" In the message log it shows the bridge as working but I guess it isn't. Files are as they state on the forum. Again could be outdated files since I got them by just downloading an old version. I have "Paper trading service" selected. Reentered everything multiple times. Not sure what else to do.
I do have the bridge zip file if you want to try that.
First thing is go under "Help" and "download current version" and install it with the "install optional components" box checked. This is an easy process. Have to do nothing other than check the box and tell it to install.
It appears that is the correct Rithmic feed from E2T telling me earlier in the thread.
Install the zip I send you. Create the folder called Rim under the Sierra Chart folder if you haven't done that. Attached is a screenshot of what is in my Rim file.
I'm having my funded account set up with E2T. I traded my Gauntlet with Sierra with the Rithmic feed.
Make sure your user and pass is correct for the Rithmic feed. Make sure the 'Trade Simulation Mode On' option under the trade tab is not checked.
Attached is my the bridge zip file I used. No, it's not infected and I haven't put anything in there. I don't even know how.
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I'm not a big fan of tradingschools.org either, but that is a pretty lengthy overview of the CFTC charges and investigation, and seems reasonably balanced to me.
The article includes the following two paragraphs for example among the final two sections of the piece.
"It is important to note that although the CFTC complaint is extremely damaging, and it appears that a criminal investigation would be warranted — that all of these are currently just allegations. "
"Regardless of my opinion of day traders and the “funded trader” industry…it is important to note that Ryan Masten has a very good reputation this industry. TradingSchools.Org has received no complaints regarding Earn2Trade."
CFTC don't just charge somebody with fraud on a whim. It would certainly be enough to give me pause for thought at this time if purchasing a product or service that he was involved in.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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Hmm. I'm not aware of CFTC workings or credibility tbh (since I'm not from US), but judging by info you have provided that does seem like legitment concern.
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Curious, what makes you not a big fan of tradingschools.org? I have generally found all their reviews to be accurate, although sometimes a bit hyperbolic. For any vendor out there, the first thing I look for is a review by Emmett.
Neither am I, I live in the UK.
But they are a government agency with a mission statement that reads "The mission of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission is to promote the integrity, resilience, and vibrancy of the U.S. derivatives markets through sound regulation." They're not going to charge somebody without having done enough investigation for them to believe that they have a strong and valid case.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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Note, in the comments section of the tradingschools.org article, a comment from Earn2Trade was posted on September 10th.
I have no idea if it is really a statement from Earn2Trade or not, but the comment claims it is:
"Statement on Allegations of Personal Wrongdoing by Former Co-Founder
September 2nd, 2020
On September 2nd, 2020 the CFTC charged the former co-founder of Earn2Trade, Ryan Masten of violating CFTC regulations on several counts. None of the alleged incidents took place during Ryan’s ownership of Earn2Trade, nor had they any connection to Earn2Trade. By April, 2019, Ryan was already a fractional minority shareholder in Earn2Trade, and on July 1st, 2020 his final shares were purchased and he was no longer a shareholder in the company.
Earn2Trade is saddened to hear of the allegations against its former co-founder.
Earn2Trade strongly rejects the alleged activities and rejects unregulated Binary
Options trading in its entirety. Despite the current allegations, Ryan’s tenure at
Earn2Trade was a successful one. He helped build a great company and we are
proud today of what we have accomplished.
Earn2Trade prides itself on providing an objective examination and an equal
opportunity for retail traders around the world to test themselves and become
professional futures traders. We stand by the outstanding work our company
does every day, and we remain committed to providing a fair environment for
retail traders to test themselves and enter the world of trading."
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I'm also not a fan of tradingschools.org and was referring to the CFTC complaint, which is 37 pages of evidence. Yes, the defendants are "innocent until proven guilty" but I'm biased toward the CFTC given my own negative personal past experience with SignalPush.com.
Admittedly I haven't looked at his site for quite a while as I haven't been looking to purchase or sign up for anything and therefore not after reviews.
Perhaps because the futures vendor industry has such a poor reputation (current company excepted of course), when I had looked at his site a long time back almost every review was slamming the vendor and with review after review it become somewhat relentless.
But then the quality of the vendor's services is hardly his fault and it always appeared that he had done a lot of research. So in retrospect probably more a problem with me reading lots of reviews en masse rather than just on the odd occasion.
Obviously I have no comment about the accuracy of his analysis of the CFTC case, not having read the original CFTC charges document, but as I inferred in my earlier post; I found this review of his much more balanced and less mocking than I remember his style used to be.
Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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Good points! It does get depressing looking through that site. So many cons going on. I know Emmett has received death threats over some reviews, which may be why he is not as harsh these days.
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I am currently in the Gauntlet Mini 150K and by the looks of things, I will succeed in getting a funded account.
My understanding from this thread is that Helios Trading Partners is essentially a related company to Earn2Trade, and while they may take on prop traders who can confirm their own success outside of E2T, its primary business is in funding the traders who are successful at E2T.
I hope that E2T can also confirm that Mr. Masten has no further connection to Helios as well. I am sure we can all understand the reasons why that would be a concern.
All in the complaint including Ryan innocent until proven guilty
These are just "allegations" in the complaint and should not be treated as facts
However---despite the above the allegations are no doubt very troubling since they are in the trading industry (options) and allege finance fraud, deceptive behavior including using aliases (Ryan is also accused/alleged in the complaint to have used an alias)
If I was Earn 2 Trade and Helios I would become very transparent now and disclose to everyone each individual who owns/controls any part or percentage in Helios and Earn 2 Trade
This is certainly a moment where the 2 companies (Earn2Trade and Helios) can actually GAIN market share against competitors if they handle it right. I believe being more transparent about the funding company and tryout company would help them. The 2 may be separate entities legally but in reality most people look at them as being tied together despite the fact that they are 2 different legal entities
Earn2Trade Funding Firm Founder Charged With Fraud
The links in your post do not point where you meant them to, because you have placed WIKI tags around them. (You may have used the editor's icon that looks like a link in a chain, but it's not ) This makes them point to blank pages in the futures.io wiki section.
You can just type the URL directly in the edit window, and it will work as intended.
FIO moderators do not edit members' posts, so I am leaving yours as-is. If you want to correct it, you can edit it within 24 hours of its posting time.
Wonder if this is anything to do with the Ryan situation.
LiveSim and Live Account Update!
Earn2Trade will be moving trading accounts to a new partner firm, and is in the final stages of setup. All those currently passing the Gauntlet and/or Gauntlet Mini examinations will be able to temporarily join Helios Trading Partners in LiveSim while the process is completed, or wait to join the new prop trading firm in a live account as soon as the setup is complete. This move may require a small delay in processing the candidates over to the new trading firm, but we will provide updates of the status and notify the community as the developments proceed.
Those who are currently trading live accounts in Helios Trading Partners can continue to trade and withdraw profit up until the end of September 30th, at which point their accounts will be moved over to the new prop trading firm. They will also have the option of continuing in LiveSim at Helios Trading Partners if they so choose during the handover period.
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CFTC and fraud charges are one thing. The IRS is something completely different and more threatening. Co-mingling two corporate entities registered by the same signator in Wyoming may be why they're running as fast as they can to a new "prop" firm. Follow the money - and the IRS usually does.
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Until we finalize our new relationships with the new corporate structure, we can't provide EUREX unfortunately. However, I have to say, I'm not sure we will add it back yet. Traders who come to us don't seem so interested in that market. We only had limited numbers of traders trading it, and even they only used it as a bit of curiosity, to look into trading it 10% of their time, along with the usual CME products.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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@adttt were you able to get the Sierra Chart Rithmic Bridge working to access your trading gauntlet? I don't have the ability to PM yet so I have to ask in this thread. Thank you.
Realizing that things remain in flux until your new structure is finalized, can you please confirm that funded traders' profits will continue to be paid out as capital gains?
I see this as one of the best competitive advantages that Earn2Trade offers, at least to US traders.
Regards.
dwt51
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If you want to cancel your subscription and you don't know how please go to your Earn2trade dashboard, click "Settings", then "Subscriptions"and scroll down until you see "Cancel Subscription".
That is up to the trader, you can wait for the new prop firm set up, which is on the final steps or you can get a LiveSim account and continue trading, you can withdraw your profits as you would normally and your data feed would be discounted from the account balance. You can go in either direction, if you'd prefer to wait, we respect that decision, otherwise, reach out to Helios (they must have already too, if you passed) and they can get you set up with a LiveSim account in a day or two.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Of course, you just need to connect your credentials to the platform you would like to trade on. If Ninjatrader is going to be your selection and you don't have a license key, you can get the one we offer from our dashboard going to the NinjaTrader tab. Then you can follow this connection guide step by step: https://help.earn2trade.com/en/articles/4473826-how-to-connect-rithmic-to-ninjatrader
1. Any eta/time frame on the switch to the new prop firm? Few weeks, before 2021, tbd?
2. If someone passed soon, say tomorrow, and assuming there's still at least a few weeks until the new prop firm, I'm trying to figure out why someone would wait for the new firm. Just wondering if I'm missing something on why someone would wait.
Thanks!
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1. We are excited to share that we’ve signed agreements with two proprietary trading firms and they have both concluded agreements with new brokerage firm partners. That means within a few weeks we will be able to provide all our customers with new funding partners outside of Helios Trading Partners. We do apologize immensely for the delay.
2. Some people decide to wait because they want a break from trading, some others decide to wait because they want a live account and not livesim. Right now our funded traders are receiving what we call "LiveSim" accounts, in which you are able to withdraw your 80% of the maximum profits you can reach $5000 and the data feed can be paid from the account balance.
Let me know if you have other questions
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Bad Idea...SC has clearly stated that they are NOT providing support for Rithmic. Major connection issues, lost data. I recently moved to SC from NT, and now need to go back to NT. It appears that SC is working towards requiring everyone to use their Denilli data feed.
-namaskaram
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I recently passed the 75k Mini Gauntlet. I understand you are switching trading partners. How long has it been that you have been "switching trading partners" and "in the final stages of completing" as it has said on the notice on your website for a very long time? Today November 24th 2020 I was notified by Helios that it will be 2 more weeks. Just a reference point for others to look back and see this if the "switching trading partners" persists. Anyway I understand you are switching and am fine with that. My issue isn't that because you have decided to change trading partners you are offering traders who pass the Mini Gauntlet the opportunity to trade on a live sim account and still withdraw profits, that sounds great. The issue is that you are charging traders who pass the Mini Gauntlet the CME professional fee of $105 per exchange in order to trade on a live sim account (which is not stated in the message regarding trading partner changes). The CME rule that invokes that charge involves using one user logon simultaneously on multiple platforms. I will not be using multiple platforms. I actually have my own data feed and have no use for the one you choose to provide to trade in your sim account. The deeply concerning part of this issue is that instead of your company paying the additional cost associated with your choice to change trading partners you are passing it on to the trader. Why is that? Why should the trader pay for your choice to change trading partners? Where else can you sign up for something, complete the required prerequisites and then go to collect your achievements and be told that you need to pay money to do what you already earned? Again I have no issue trading on a sim account but I certainly should not have to pay for it. Why would CME be charging you $105 for a single login? Are they really charging you $105 for a single login? Is this just a way to collect $105? Some would say its no big deal because it just comes out of your virtual balance. I would say it is a big deal because I can withdraw profits from that virtual balance. Instead of starting at $75000 I would start at $74790 trading 2 exchanges. That means I have to earn the $210 before I can break even. If I didn't have a data feed already I wouldn't have an issue paying the fees, but I do have one so I do have an issue. That with the fact that your companies choice to change trading partners shouldn't cost the trader money. Thank you in advance for your thoughtful reply.
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that sounds illegal. topsteptrader explicitly mentions that the benefit of their "Pro Account", which is their version of E2T's "LiveSim", is that no exchange fees are required.
E2T needs to up their transparency b/c the way things have been going lately, they've been way too shady to my liking; such as claiming that Ryan Masten wasn't with Helios since July but official documents prove he was with Helios as close as 2 weeks before the CFTC fraud news came out-
Agreed, I was skeptical from the onset but gave them the benefit of the doubt. This isn't about the money of it its about the principal. $210 can be made in 2 minutes. Any interaction I've had since before I subscribed has felt canned. They just screenshot their website or send you links to things you've already read but don't address the question you raise. I actually tried to resolve this through their customer support before posting here and it was the same, screenshots and links. It almost feels like you're corresponding with a call center in a far away place that really doesn't have trading knowledge, more like they input your question into a database and click and forward the closest answer they think is relevant. Hopefully Orianna will change that experience with her reply. Reading through the prior posts it seems she has great knowledge and a desire to solve problems.
It is always funny to read: "I've my own data, I don't need it from my funding-partner". Guys you don't need this data for your charting, you need it for order-routing!! So if you have 3 different accounts, you have to pay 3times for data (what they charge is an extra question)
Thank you for the thoughtful and eloquent manner you put the question.
There is a misconception that I have to address here. The CME charges $105/month/exchange/session if your status that you self-certify is "professional", which as a part of a prop firm you qualify as. For a single session (1 login), the cost for one exchange is $105. If you need two concurrent logins, you'll be charged $210 for that same exchange per month. I don't want to continue with the example, you understand how the math adds up. I just want to add that the calendar month is of course, unfortunately, the same cost regardless whether you started trading on the 1st or the 31st - still, the CME will charge the data provider $105, the data provider will charge the prop firm, and the prop firm will charge the trader. If you are aware of this already, I am sorry for the long-winded explanation, but based on your comment, it felt like there may have been some confusion there. The prop firm offers to have it deducted from the account balance.
As to the ownership question, all I can say is what has already been said. Ryan stopped being an owner in the beginning of July. But please understand that there is about a million things an ex-owner's name may be tagged to. This is an online business that uses a lot of different services. It is possible that one of the many tech providers somewhere still has his name on some document. My guess is that the reports are submitted pretty much automatically by an accountant who won't launch an investigation into what name they put the report under (or whether or not an ownership change has happened), or alternatively, they have to put the owner's name on the file anyways, since we are talking about the year 2019. I don't really have a better way of explaining unfortunately, if it feels like a template, well, I'm sorry about that, but it is the truth.
As to the new funding firm: the new company is currently working out the kinks of account setups. Technically we could test this on traders, but that may result in a situation where the traders are kept in limbo, without a LiveSim, waiting for a new relationship and new teams to figure out compliance, account setup procedures and day-to-day operation. They'd much rather delay the start then make people wait with no other option.
Thank you for the question and cultured discussion. Also, have a wonderful holiday!
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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Thank you for your reply and explanation. I am aware of the fee structure and currently pay the fees. My concern is paying the fees twice, once through my platform (esignal) and once through E2T. The questions I was hoping to get answers for in my original post were:
1. "The issue is that you are charging traders who pass the Mini Gauntlet the CME professional fee of $105 per exchange in order to trade on a live sim account (which is not stated in the message regarding trading partner changes).
2. The deeply concerning part of this issue is that instead of your company paying the additional cost associated with your choice to change trading partners you are passing it on to the trader. Why is that?
I would also point out that the FAQ of E2Ts website states:
"You are responsible for platform and exchange fees as well as the brokerage contract and commission fees. Brokerage, exchange, contract and commission fees are deducted directly from your account balance, however the data fees ($105.00) per exchange must be paid by you out of pocket from your credit card. These are pass through fees directly from the exchange.
If you already have a data feed and simply want to execute on the Helios feed, you do not need to subscribe to the Helios Rithmic data feed for charting and will not incur any costs.
This is where my lack of understanding comes from.
To summarize, why do I need to pay CME fees twice when the website specifically says I do not, and why is this fee being charged to people who pass the gauntlet/mini when the fee was not part of the original agreement and only came into play when E2T decided to change trading partners.
Text/Email make it hard to convey emotion, I'm not upset or angry just trying to get a clear picture of where my understanding went wrong
Thank you so much!
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I have been with Earn2Trade for a while now. Was funded before with Helios, managed to withdraw some profit, but eventually lost the account. Before E2T, I was with other prop firms, also funded and lost the account. I decided to stick with E2T because I believe it gives trader the best opportunity/chances to make it live and withdraw profit.
Recently, I passed the mini gauntlet. Mid November. Received email with the usual, to submit paperwork etc. Then came the offer from E2T about live sim. Stating that it might take 2 weeks for the live acct to set up, and I could opt for the sim, 2 days. I decided to wait for the live acct for a few reasons. Then came more emails saying it will be a few weeks. I emailed yesterday, and received similar replies, will be ready in a few weeks.
I understand due to certain circumstances, getting a new funding firm etc., things may not go as smooth as we would all like to be. I do think E2T can do better to keep it's aspiring traders. If, you face a problem with new funding firm, be honest with us. Give us a time frame. Meanwhile, the live-sim option is a good solution at the moment, provided E2T be fair to the traders. When I was with another prop firm, I had live acct as well as the pro-acct (live-sim) because I could save 210 for CME fees (2 exchanges).
If E2T offers live-sim option without deducting the "cme fees" (since it is not collected by CME for sim acct), I believe traders will be more receptive. For myself, the reason I decided to wait for live account is mainly because I am more comfortable with live fills. However, if I can 'save" 210, I will consider taking the live-sim option.
Thank you.
Sleep well, Eat Healthy, Breathe...
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So, this part is the same misunderstanding that we have talked about earlier. As long as you qualify as a professional, which with a prop firm, you do, the CME does collect the data fees, regardless of how you use the data. I don't know where the misconception that it doesn't comes from. The CME doesn't care about how you use the data, sim or not, it will charge the fees in any case. If it didn't, our business would be significantly easier, since that means data is free, meaning that a company like Earn2Trade would have a major cost disappear overnight. The same for Helios, if they provide data, it will be charged.
As to giving you a timeframe: I would love to be able to do that, but I am not sure we can stick with it. Would that feel better if we had to move the goalpost? In all honesty, and you may or may not have been around that time with Helios, that company has already had a situation where there were account setup delays, which was due to the fact that (thankfully) Earn2Trade's business increased and Helios couldn't keep up. Understandably, the new company is trying to prevent that situation by not promising a date that looks OK, but instead will start setting people up gradually and slowly build that relationship, work out the account setup procedure, establish good and effective communication with their FCM, etc... This is what is happening at the moment, by the way, account setup procedures and compliance requirements developed and finalized. It could just be a week or two or could be more, depending on what each party's requirements are and how close they get to each other. Believe me, we wish it was already firm and ready, and we are very close, but not there yet. If that feels like a bad policy that will lose your business, I'm sorry - please try to look at our track record in paying traders, in keeping to our promises, and please keep in mind what you basically stuck with us for: "the best opportunity/chances to make it live". That never changed, but we did have to work through a major road bump.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
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That last sentence seems to be where the misunderstanding is?
Some prop firms are advising their customers very differently from this, saying that it's only if you're with a prop firm and trading live (i.e. not a sim account) that you qualify as a professional, and their clients in similar circumstances are therefore not charged professional-level data fees.
A "professional" for these purposes, after all, is someone trading someone else's funds. That surely isn't true of someone trading on a simulated account?
Am I mistaken?
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Can someone please explain to me how the firms actually benefit from providing "live sim" and offering the profits to the trader in real money?
Is this simply a matter of saving money on not having to fund the traders that blow up their sim accounts and passing the savings on to the profiting traders?
The following 4 users say Thank You to SethP for this post:
So, if that clause you've highlighted covers the situation being discussed above, does it follow that all the prop firms letting traders in similar circumstances not pay "professional" level data feeds are running some kind of fiddle, and CME either lets them get away with it, or doesn't know about it? Or is there some other explanation I've failed to appreciate (always possible)?
The following user says Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
this is for live accounts. the CMEdoes not charge $105/exchange/month for a SIM account.
this is why the live SIM account provided by Topsteptrader for their live funded traders does not charge any data fees.
this is also why Oneuptrader does not charge any data fees in their live accounts b/c they are known to keep their newly-funded live traders on a SIM account until they have proven profitability.
idk if you're deliberately trying to be obtuse but the point everyone here's been making is why you're the only funding company to charge $105/exchange/month on a live sim account when this is not being charged by the CME.
this is obviously why TST and OUT can offer free exchange fees on their live sim accounts. if, according to your logic, CME was charging these exchange fees for even livesim accounts, that would mean TST/OUT are taking a $420/month loss on each funded trader on livesim. that is clearly not true.
in case you're still confused, we're not talking about the SIM accounts in the Gauntlet or Gauntlet mini. we're referring to the livesim option you're currently offering those who've passed the Gauntlet mini and don't want to wait until prop firm setup is complete to move into a live (not livesim) account with real fills.
the fact is, you're just making excuses trying to make this out to be something outside of E2T's control by blaming the CME when the CME absolutely does not charge $105/exchange/month for a SIM account.
The following 3 users say Thank You to canoekoh for this post:
This year I took a break from trading for a few months, but CME data fees (Non-Professional) were still deducted from my live account. The following exchange I had with AMP Futures Support would indicate that the CME does charge for paper trading accounts. (Names have been redacted and I have no affiliation with Earn2Trade.)
The following 2 users say Thank You to TradingThomas for this post:
I'm sorry, but I do have to reiterate here. The CME charges data fees for sim accounts as well. In fact, professionals are charged that rate on the Gauntlet programs too.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
The following user says Thank You to Earn2Trade for this post:
I think what's puzzling your current and prospective customers here, Orianna, is the undeniable reality that you're charging for something TopStep and OneUp aren't charging for.
I appreciate, of course, that you can't reasonably be expected to comment on other firms' policies in these circumstances ... just as I'm sure you appreciate that you have competitors who have evidently found a way of resolving this issue that you haven't found.
I accept that you have, as you put it, "already answered that question", but it's apparent to all concerned that you haven't answered it in a way that satisfies your customers and potential customers.
Maybe there's simply no more you can do about that, but that would be a shame (and clearly result in loss of potential business for you).
Obviously nobody's alleging for a moment that you're pocketing extra fees and not passing them on to CME, but why do you think this issue's turned into such a problem for E2T, when it clearly hasn't for so many of your competitors?
The following 3 users say Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
How do you know that the fee actually goes to the CME and not in the pocket of EtoT? Just curious because these types of firms seem to have different policies.
The following user says Thank You to phantomtrader for this post:
I was just clarifying/demonstrating that I'm casting no aspersions of impropriety at all, but also that this doesn't detract at all from the fact that what's being so repeatedly asked here is a perfectly legitimate and reasonable question that hasn't yet been answered to the satisfaction of E2T's customers and potential customers.
I'd be interested to hear Orianna's take on why it's turned into such a thorny issue for E2T when apparently it isn't at all for their competitors.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
I understand your position. But apparently there's a disparity among these firms relating to this CME fee issue. I think you could resolve the issue yourself by contacting the CME and asking why some firms are exempt and EtoT is not. Should be a simple answer.
I still think a confirmation that the CME is actually receiving this fee is in order. There's a reason why your question isn't being addressed completely.
We can’t account for the actions of any other firm. We bare the costs of the data fees during the examination and include them in the cost of the examination, but during live trading the funding firm has always passed the data costs onto the trader. It is irrelevant whether the trader is trading in LiveSim or trading on the live market, the costs are still applicable. The funding firm permits the fees to be either paid out of pocket or deducted from the trading account. If there is a better solution out there to account for those fees, I'm afraid Helios is not aware of it.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
The following user says Thank You to Earn2Trade for this post:
As a side note, was a good surprise to see the website has an option to change language and PT (portuguese) is among them, I wasnt aware of this kind of support..
Im sure it was just an oversight on your part but this is the third time I have asked these specific questions with no reply:
Orianna,
Thank you for your reply and explanation. I am aware of the fee structure and currently pay the fees. My concern is paying the fees twice, once through my platform (esignal) and once through E2T. The questions I was hoping to get answers for in my original post were:
1. "The issue is that you are charging traders who pass the Mini Gauntlet the CME professional fee of $105 per exchange in order to trade on a live sim account (which is not stated in the message regarding trading partner changes).
2. The deeply concerning part of this issue is that instead of your company paying the additional cost associated with your choice to change trading partners you are passing it on to the trader. Why is that?
I would also point out that the FAQ of E2Ts website states:
"You are responsible for platform and exchange fees as well as the brokerage contract and commission fees. Brokerage, exchange, contract and commission fees are deducted directly from your account balance, however the data fees ($105.00) per exchange must be paid by you out of pocket from your credit card. These are pass through fees directly from the exchange.
If you already have a data feed and simply want to execute on the Helios feed, you do not need to subscribe to the Helios Rithmic data feed for charting and will not incur any costs.
This is where my lack of understanding comes from.
To summarize, why do I need to pay CME fees twice when the website specifically says I do not, and why is this fee being charged to people who pass the gauntlet/mini when the fee was not part of the original agreement and only came into play when E2T decided to change trading partners.
Text/Email make it hard to convey emotion, I'm not upset or angry just trying to get a clear picture of where my understanding went wrong
Thank you so much!
The following user says Thank You to kcf046 for this post:
seriously, just answer the man's question, how hard can that be.
instead of using corporate-speak to brush over the issue, it'll serve you better to be clear and transparent, even more so after the recent allegations of fraud by the CFTC.
also notice how they skirt around their claim of CME charging $105/month per exchange fees for SIM accounts:
1) traders complain why they have to pay $105/exchange/month fees on a SIM account
2) Orianna claims this is out of their control since CME charges fees on SIM accounts (but for some reason doesn't specify that the CME is specifically charging $105/exchange/month on their SIM accounts)
3) traders then ask why it is that other funding companies like TST and Oneup don't charge any exchange fees on their SIM accounts
4) Orianna then claims they can't possibly know how other funding companies operate (true) but without a doubt, CME does charge exchange fees on SIM accounts.
things to note here:
a) Orianna never specifically says that CME charges sim accounts $105/exchange/month. she merely mentions that a fee is charged but doesn't specify the amount.
b) the SIM account provided after passing the Gauntlet is 100% the same as the SIM account they provide during the Gauntlet. so why isn't the CME charging $105/exchange/month on these legally identical SIM accounts? b/c if the CME is indeed charging exchanges fees on your SIM accounts, E2T would be losing money on every person attempting the Gauntlet given that exchange fees would add up to $420/month whereas the Gauntlet's are priced $100-300ish/month. that's obviously not what's happening.
unless you're trying the make the legal argument that someone who's passed a non-standardized, non-accredited, arbitrary 15-day test offered by a random company and is now trading simulated prices with fake order fills resulting in totally imaginary profits/losses (from the perspective of the CME and CFTC) is suddenly a "designated Professional Trader" and has to be charged $420/month for all 4 exchanges.
in which case, that'd be insinuating that Topsteptrader, Oneuptrader, and other funding companies charging no exchange fees for their SIM accounts are acting illegally.
so which is it Orianna?
The following 2 users say Thank You to canoekoh for this post:
