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Do you believe in trading mentors?


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Do you believe in trading mentors?

  #31 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
who cares
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As @Massive l mentioned - everything is here. On fio.
Be sure I have read many "mentor" or "class rooms" threads here. Skip those!
If you want to trade, then define your trading plan with
• time, timezone you want to focus, days you are free to do so
• choose your instrument and preferred time to stay in
then
• Trade
• Learn from your faults
• Optimize...

Find some excellent input from traders using a similar plan here in the journal threads.
Learn from them.

Learning by doing plus a great forum - nothing more needed
GFIs1

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  #32 (permalink)
 
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 phantomtrader 
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GFIs1 View Post
As @Massive I mentioned - everything is here. On fio.
Be sure I have read many "mentor" or "class rooms" threads here. Skip those!
If you want to trade, then define your trading plan with
• time, timezone you want to focus, days you are free to do so
• choose your instrument and preferred time to stay
then
• Trade
• Learn from your faults
• Optimize...

Find some excellent input from traders using a similar plan here in the journal threads.
Learn from then.

Learning by doing plus a great forum - nothing more needed
GFIs1

Excellent Post. Spot on.

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  #33 (permalink)
 
CobblersAwls's Avatar
 CobblersAwls 
London, United Kingdom
 
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I put 2 answers,

Yes, some are valuable, but most are not.
No, you must learn yourself to benefit.

It might seem like a contradiction but I think there's not 1 simple answer.

I think mentors can help you to learn, avoid stupid mistakes and bad habits. Just like in any job, competent senior staff can help guide more junior staff, teaching them efficient ways of tackling tasks etc. A mentor could assist with risk management practices, superior execution methods and other important but overlooked things. Over the years I've had guidance from lots of people and a lot of it was really helpful.

At the end of the day though, you have to put in your own time, effort and money in order to truly learn to trade. There's nothing as vital as having skin in the game and seeing how you perform when real money is on the line.

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  #34 (permalink)
 
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 deaddog 
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You cannot buy trading success.

You shouldn’t expect a mentor to show you a method. You should expect a mentor to guide you through the process of finding and developing a system that suites you. Too many people are looking to copy a method that may not be appropriate for them.*

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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  #35 (permalink)
 
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 bobwest 
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I voted for "Yes, some are valuable, most are not."

I really wanted to vote "No" at first, because I wanted to be skeptical of anything you don't learn from your own sweat (figuratively speaking ), but then I realized that I don't know.

I don't even know if the "most are not" part is correct, but I have come around to the part about "some are valuable," which is a big shift for me... mostly this is from reading some of these responses.

I'm glad to have a change of view here, but honestly I'm still basically in the "I don't know" camp. Mostly I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, plus a little bit of belief based on other peoples' reports.

I still think that, no matter how you learn something, it's still mainly you and not your teacher. But there is such a thing as a skilled teacher -- and I don't agree with the "those who can't, teach" saying. It may be true sometimes, but even that doesn't change the value of skilled teaching.

So, I did a little mental re-ordering on the subject, for which I am happy and grateful. (I wouldn't look for or use a mentor, though. I'm just too stubborn about learning everything on my own. )

Bob.

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  #36 (permalink)
 
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 michaelleemoore 
Missoula, MT Nɫʔay(ccstm)
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bobwest View Post
I voted for "Yes, some are valuable, most are not."

I really wanted to vote "No" at first, because I wanted to be skeptical of anything you don't learn from your own sweat (figuratively speaking ), but then I realized that I don't know.

I don't even know if the "most are not" part is correct, but I have come around to the part about "some are valuable," which is a big shift for me... mostly this is from reading some of these responses.

I'm glad to have a change of view here, but honestly I'm still basically in the "I don't know" camp. Mostly I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, plus a little bit of belief based on other peoples' reports.

I still think that, no matter how you learn something, it's still mainly you and not your teacher. But there is such a thing as a skilled teacher -- and I don't agree with the "those who can't, teach" saying. It may be true sometimes, but even that doesn't change the value of skilled teaching.

So, I did a little mental re-ordering on the subject, for which I am happy and grateful. (I wouldn't look for or use a mentor, though. I'm just too stubborn about learning everything on my own. )

Bob.

Thanks for this post, Bob. I have been loosely mentored by a few traders over the years, and I have mentored (volunteer) more than a few. I actually learned quite a bit about scalping -- not setups, but how to execute and how to be disciplined -- from my original mentors. In my own mentoring, I have been about 20% successful in helping to produce people who can make money. I'm sure I am partly to blame for the 80% failure rate, but having been on both ends of the equation, I can truthfully say that when I am the mentor, I am NOT much of the problem.

I have explained precisely what I do in detail ad nauseum. I have described the discretionary parts of the equation similarly. I've revealed everything, including my lack of a Holy Grail. I have even sat at my computer, looking at another trader's computer through TeamViewer, and watch people do almost the exact opposite of what I told them.

I know most of you are coming at this equation from the side of wanting to learn from a mentor. I'm not going to get into the argument about paid mentors or trading rooms other than to say some are likely good and many are likely terrible. However, the truth is, most of you are awful students. You want a magic potion. You want rules that will produce riches if you simply follow them. You do not want to spend the time necessary to learn your market. Most importantly, many of you either don't have the psychology necessary to trade or the will to develop it.

Trading is hard for lots of reason, but it's not that damn hard. But after spending excessive amounts of time with many here on FIO, I am sad to say you should look first in the mirror for who is to blame for your performance.

Michael

PS I'll tell you something else. Getting involved up to your ears in arguments over whether Top Step is good or bad, whether unirenkos are good or bad, all while demanding that others "prove" to you that they can trade is a serious waste of time.

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  #37 (permalink)
 
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 bobwest 
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Thanks, Michael, for sharing these experiences. You're a lot more patient than most.

Thanks for this, too:

michaelleemoore View Post
PS I'll tell you something else. Getting involved up to your ears in arguments over whether Top Step is good or bad, whether unirenkos are good or bad, all while demanding that others "prove" to you that they can trade is a serious waste of time.

There are way too many people who are so in love with their own importance that they demand others to prove things to them that are, simply, none of their damn business.

Bob.

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  #38 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
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Not anymore.

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  #39 (permalink)
 suzi 
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Yes I believe that is atleast important to have a second set of eyes to watch.Also might help in organizing the set ups one has and advice.It may or may not work but atleast you have other person's perspective.

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  #40 (permalink)
 
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 deaddog 
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When I started trading I realized that I didn't know enough to be profitable. I was under the impression that there was a secret that successful traders knew that I might be able to buy. There is a secret and it is mentioned in just about any trading book or course, but it is so simple that I couldn't believe it worked.

I didn't spend a lot of money on courses, DVDs or books but I did spend some. One course that retailed for over $2000 I managed to get for free by switching brokers. I picked up used DVDs and books on Ebay and made use of the local library.

I spent a little time in trading rooms, making use of the free trials and introductory offers. I was never impressed enough to pay full price. I even paid a guy too advise me on skype in real time, until I asked him if he was in a trade he suggested and he replied that he didn't trade.

I would have really appreciated a mentor to point me in the right direction although at the time I'm not sure I would have paid any attention to their advice as I ignored any thing that didn't fit what I believed to be true at the time.

The Secret;

Study the market you want to trade until you find an exploitable edge. (Edge = being able to see something in the market in time to be able to exploit it. ) Have a written plan to exploit that edge. Follow the plan.

Keep your losses small.

Keep your expectations realistic.

Let your winners run.

I suggest that new traders study why the majority of traders fail and then don't do that.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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