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Perhaps i could write huge on this but in very short this is what i feel
- Successful Trader Mentor can teach you only his summarized working method.
- Unsuccessful Trader Mentor will try to take you from most of methods before centering to one method ( Obviously that might not even be worked for him but he is in mentoring business )
- Trade yourself, fight with market and learn from you mistake.
I voted for #4 because it is my (and my friends') experience that 99.9% are just snake oil men, whose main income source is not from trading but from 'course fees' or 'mentoring fees.' This is also why most refuse to show you their verified trading statement because they are probably abysmal failures in trading.
I knew some trading "mentors" from my days as a newbie, who claim to be very successful in trading with decades of experience, but who for some reason still work mediocre office jobs reporting to other people at work. Years later they quit trading. These are the same guys who bought EURUSD 1.35 for 1.8 despite ECB doing QE / ABS purchasing. They also short USDJPY 103 back in 2014 expecting collapse of dollar and because they read Soros was shorting it. They told all of us NOT to use SL to prevent stop hunts... Yup, my mentors never used SL and they kept adding to losing trades... when they lose it was always due to "market manipultion." was a painful lesson for me and the others but lucky we were on small account.
When I later joined Prop boot camp, I came to know other folks. Another guy confided to me he spent 30k on this local trading "mentor" yet he is 180k in debt! I asked him how is that possible if his mentor claims to trade for a living? He says his mentor does not share any trade calls... and you are on your own, basically. He also said he cannot tell me what the mentor taught him but he did not even seem to know trading futures basics, due to some NDA signed. zzz
ps: so far only 2 people have shown me their profitable live trading statements, and none of them are willing to be paid to be trading mentor. they believe you have to evolve yourself but are happy to answer any questions along the way (your questions apparently reflect the level you attained). they want to encourage learning, plus they are busy 'living their life.'
I agree with what you are saying about 99.9% are probably fake selling crap. If you go to a free webinar and you can't make sense of what they are showing in a live market, I would stay away. Or if you can't, you might not have enough market knowledge. There are a handful of good people out there that are good traders that can teach, and genuinely want to help people.
I love your comment about show me your statements because (I always see this posted on every trading forum I've been to when I was a new trader. The question is a doubt question. Reread my second sentence.) you want to see if they are successful or not, yeah that's great if you can get someone to show you, but in reality most probably don't or won't 1. They are not legit. 2. Because they don't want you to get caught up on their results, just because they are 70-90 percent doesn't mean you will, you will eventually, but process over outcome. 3. Think about it, if they were showing you monthly returns of 50k-100k+ what would prevent you from targeting them or their family for the money. The world is not a safe place; this is an emotional game, think security, dude. People break into cars and kill for less. Just because someone is flying under the radar doesn't mean they are not legit. What reason do they have to turn over their results to you? Just because you want to know if they are legit, and have doubt. I would answer that question with F-Off, wouldn’t you? You came to them, not the other way around. If they don't show you their results, they most not really need your money.
I always see that comment about results and returns; I couldn't resist.
I like the examples given here using the school teachers, it really fits in well. Mentors can fit into so many categories, it just depends what type of mentoring do you need.
The way I think is, a mentor is not a school teacher. A mentor is bit more personalize to one, he doesn’t have to give the same lecture, or the same course material to everyone like a school teacher.
I also don’t find a fee involve in the relationship, it raises so many questions and skepticism.
Importantly I think, a student should win the mentor’s time, he should prioritize working with him over anything. He should show that his mentor’s time and advice means the entire world for his learning. He should go over and beyond to prove that he puts in the work. He should show respect and not waste his mentor’s time by asking questions that he can easily Google.
I’ld like to think a true mentor is someone who enjoys working with hardworking and motivated students. He feels pride in seeing them become successful. For him this is not a business.
I was listening to a podcast where the guest shared his experience when he was trying to find mentors. He told his story which really inspired me and connected with my way of thinking on this topic. The guest went on telling that he was able to get a hold of a possible mentor that he liked and was able to get him on the phone. After some conversation, the mentor(prospect) told the guest(prospect student) that he was only available to meet tomorrow. The guest(prospect student) booked the flight that very moment for the next day. After meeting with him the next day, the mentor(prospect) successfully took him under his wing and at the end of the conversation told the guest(student) that he was testing him and checking how hungry he was for this.
Most dodgy mentors are selling something so they can create an income stream. The phrase "those who can't, teach" comes to mind as many have very flakey knowledge. BUT saying that I'm a firm believer in doing things the hard way in that, I think to be successful it helps to know what doesn't work and crucially why! So it's useful to learning to try things. However I particularly think that the right mentor can be of critical help in instilling good habits rather than teaching setups or the like. So always talk to the person before spending anything, and ask for verifiable records. I personally never had a mentor and am doing ok though, so if you trust your own work ethic and development process you'll do just fine.
I have no idea how to find a good mentor. I guess it's like finding someone with a good book on trading: see what he/she says and see if it makes sense and if you can use it.
But will a trading statement they give you show you they really know how to trade? And how can you know whether a statement is genuine? How hard is it, with today's computer capabilities, to fake up anything?
What would I personally accept? Well, if I already trusted the person (you notice the catch here, right?), then I would accept their statement too. There are people here on FIO whose word I routinely accept about their trading results. If I were going to pay someone money, I would be more picky about whether I trusted them or not, but at some point I think you just have to take the risk.
Would a statement be enough to eliminate the risk? To be blunt about it, I would not just take anyone's word for it if I didn't know them, unless: (1) the statement had been audited by a known public accounting firm, and (2) I saw the firm's audit letter, and (3) the letter had been sent to me by the firm (and I could verify that), not by the guy with the statement.
Which means, I wouldn't really put any trust in any statements, if you're trying to decide who's trustworthy. I think you have to give up the idea, which has somehow gotten to be very popular on the internet, that you can just get a statement and settle the matter. No matter what they give you, I don't think it would settle anything.
I think it comes down to the fact that you will be taking a risk, and the more money involved, the greater the risk. I don't see the statement as the thing that will remove that risk. Sure, a statement showing a profit would be a good thing to see, but only if I had other reasons to think the person is legit.
I really hope that people can get over the fixation on statements, but I doubt it will ever happen.
And, as I said, I don't know how to choose a mentor if you don't already know them, but that's another issue.
Like most have said, most times those that can't trade become teachers instead. And I have gone through my share of them, over a dozen. However during my journey I did come across a few that are legit and have helped me develop my style.
The key i found from the successful ones is they keep it very simple and be patient with the setups.
Yeah I do agree it's not the be all and end all I mention it to be an example of a place to start to on a due diligence process along with other aspects; these might include recommendations and actually speaking to the characters running the thing. Especially seeing as most don't do any of that leg work. But as long as a new trader is willing to lose the fee at worst they leave wiser if not better informed, and the cost is then just that of not doing their research. With most discretionary spending you have your own limits on how much you'd spend and not mind. And in my experience I'd just advise people to just stay in your limits.
Last winter a girl came up to me at a charity event said "I'm a trader too, have you heard of 'Insert name here'? I've just paid him 12k for his course". Sufficed to say it didn't work out for her in trading. Probably for a few reasons but shows there's definitely cause to be cautious of the trustworthiness of sellers, and that there's a market.
From my own experience. The more expensive ones turned out to be shams since they only care about the one time business dealing. The cheaper ones (less than 2k) turned out to be the best, they are already successful and confIdent traders that don’t depend on subs to make a living. They genuinely want to see others succeed.
Very true, Bob. The book maybe, an account statement, not so much.
I have a good bullshit radar. I am good at reading people and seeing through their shit. They don't even need to speak. I guess it's intuitive.
It's the people that are selling 10k+ education; those are the folks one would want to stay far away from.
It's the folks that are affordable; people may want to consider. The people that have a passion for educating folks do so because they love it, not because they can make money off of new traders, perhaps the small amount of money is a benefit. They are teaching because they struggled and wanted to help others. Teaching, in turn, keeps them sharp because they have to articulate their knowledge back.
I always see this response posted, well if they are traders, why would they teach? Shouldn't they be making plenty of money trading the markets? Yeah, they are, but they have a calling to teach.
It's like why people with kids, adopt other kids? Because they love children and have a calling to do so. They want to lift that lonely child up and make a positive impact on that child.
Yes, mentors/educators are still selling something and making small amounts of money. It's like tutoring or anything else. If one wants to become better, they seek out help and one that has been or is successful. If ones wants to get motivated some see Toni Robins; if one wanted to get well versed in real estate, one might check out Grant Cardone, etc...
People all trade differently, I would think we would all be trading the same or very similar because the market moves in that same predictable manner day in and day out.
Also, it's kind of like when one is a new trader; one doesn’t know what questions to ask or what one doesn’t know. Or if one has been trading awhile, one might think they know, but one doesn’t know enough or completely does not know. Or like when my mentor reviews my trades, they think I have a grasp of the concept because some of my trades work and I am doing great one week, but then the next is terrible because I am missing those other factors and concepts.
I guess getting back to the tutoring concept; I wouldn't go to Donald Trump if I wanted to be a phenomenal basketball player. I would probably hit up Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, or Shaquille O'Neal, and If I had mindset issues, I wouldn't go to the drunk homeless guy on the street holding a sign I would see one that is more mentally enlightened or at least some good self-help motivational, positive audibles to listen too.
I know you get it, Bob but it a shame that there are so many bogus people out there and if one wanted to get dedicated help it's like searching through a needle in a haystack. So essentially it has put a bad taste in many peoples mouths. Yes, there are plenty of helpful people on f.io helping others, and that is AWESOME.
Everything in life is a risk, getting in a car, eating out, cooking at home, not showing up for work if you have a job, or choosing a mentor or not choosing a mentor. Going to sleep is a risk too, many people die in their sleep. Life is just one big risk. Thanks for your insight.
. If they don't show you their results, they most not really need your money
