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@xplorer Right, I think a great mentor should be able to demonstrate excellence in at least one aspect (one or more). However, it does not mean that they need to be a superstar because being a superstar is a combination of business savvy, marketing skills, persona/looks, and some luck. So, the answer is that a vocal coach doesn't need to look like a superstar, doesn't need to be a superstar, but ideally they can sing like one. It may just be they have different "priorities" and this is easy to see when we see priority as a function over time that can ebb and flow. Speaking of qualities, there are cases when someone can teach that doesn't have the quality required to be successful. A coach may have knowledge but not the athletic ability to compete, an older performer might have the knowledge/expertise to be vocal trainer but no longer physically able to perform at the same level, a paper trader may have the skills but lack sufficient psychology or capital.
The amount of experience required is a function of the specificity of the training. For example, if you're at a certain point in your trading where you know what you need to do. You could receive mentoring from a chess, video game, or memory expert. Sure, absolutely.
Expertise, knowledge, motivation, and resources are going to be the determining factors for trading or business success. These can be viewed as "qualities". An independent trader or entrepreneur needs to have the quality and capability of being willing to take risk. On the other hand, a trader at a prop firm or hedge fund only needs to have the knowledge and expertise. They do not need to possess the same degree of qualities. A teacher at a top business school, doesn't require to have the "quality" of the drive to succeed in business.
The one aspect that someone who has extensive real money experience and success can provide is the experience of having modeled and built a successful trading business. This is a different type of experience. If the mentors methods are applicable to your resources and strength then having that ability to model your business in that way would be invaluable.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
Yes, mentors are important. They can walk you through the process and give the small details. Many so called mentors out there are fake, and are just pushing education. Most trader educators aren't real traders. There is a ton of money to be made on new traders. Forums and youtube you can learn a ton of bad habits. Everyone has their way, struggle alone, or find someone that will cut down the learning curve. You can lose a ton of money learning on your own or spend 5k or less to learn the right way. I tried someone on the webinar section for a couple of months all they were was pushing concepts and didn't provide feedback on trades. So it all depends on what the person wants. You still need time watching the ebb and flow. You can still be mentored and still fail...
My answer was "No, you must learn yourself to benefit".
Mentors CAN be helpful but usually are not a great benefit unless they REVEAL the trader inside you.
I think of Brett Steenbarger, he admits he is not the greatest trader but he mentors many traders.
His benefit is teaching the trader to get his feelings out of the way of trading successfully.
Someone like Mark Douglas was both successful trading and teaching others his techniques.
(that is not to say they were successful but Mark taught them to think and trade his techniques)
Other 'master' traders can trade and make tons of $$ but could not teach you anything about how they do it.
So the answer is:
It depends.
Some can teach, some can trade, some can teach and trade and others can't do either but they still take clients.
I still think my answer is the best.
If someone teaches you to trade their method, did you really learn to trade? Or are you just a robot?
The problem with almost ALL of the mentors is greed.
They want to make $$ and so do their clients.
After they teach you to trade, you don't need them any more.
The $$ they make from you stops if you become successful.
Do they really want you to learn?
Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
From my perspective every successful trader will have their own flavor of secret sauce and if you can come across someone willing to share.... there you go.
But, having said that, there are just as many if not more snake oil salesman in the trading guru space.
Ian
In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
From the quotes above it - unless I'm misinterpreting - sounds like you guys are talking about mentors as people who teach a method.
For me, that's not mentoring.
Just about anyone could teach a method they themselves know. Mentoring is about opening up doors for you, doors that were either closed or invisible to you. Mentors will tell you that you need to walk through the door yourself, but their added value is showing you the path.
There's a difference between this and teaching just a method.
@xplorer Good insight. A quick search on the difference in mentoring, coaching, and training reveals some of the nuance differences:
Mentoring: Typically informal to semi-formal, long term, mentor requires expert knowledge, depth, and breadth of experience. Agenda is typically mentee led with mentor helping to mold, shape, and focus beliefs over a long term. Focus is broad and long term. Growing/building. Researching, building, exploring, growing.
Coaching: Short term, structured, goals based, task based. Formal relationship. Outcome based focus. Process transfer. Doing, organizing, prioritizing, scheduling.
Teacher/trainer: Subject matter expert. Training is the shortest and most specific. Narrow focus. Skills transfer. Learning, studying, training, practicing.
Maybe a new thread for this should be created so we don't hijack Mike's?
Maybe so, but as a trader that has had both mentors, teachers and professors, I find they all have 'methods' they teach.
It may just be the teachers/mentors I had but none of them were Spock.
They could not separate themselves from their bias, methods that worked for them and the area of their experience.
In school/college I also had many mentors/teachers/professors. They all taught the things they knew. I think it would be difficult or impossible to mentor someone in an area where there was no experience. If attempted, they are teaching / mentoring someone's experience other than their own and that may be possible but is it really valuable?
Rejoice in the Thunderstorms of Life . . .
Knowing it's not about Clouds or Wind. . .
But Learning to Dance in the Rain ! ! !
