So my backstory is that I did both the Futex full training course (remotely) and the futex price ladder course before Futex went bust.
I managed to stay in contact with the guy who ran the training course (Alex) who I already knew randomly via a friend of a friend and that's how I heard of Futex.
Looks like they've set up a new prop shop themselves https://axiafutures.com/ with similar training. So if anyone is looking to understand the price ladder in particular then I'd highly recommend them! Brannigan Barrett was a real trader at futex (I'm not sure that some of the people giving the course actually were!) and his advice is always clear, direct and to the point. A proper no BS trader.
Just to show that I'm not a total fan boy that is being paid to do this, I do have some criticisms of the courses that I took with Futex. The main course was something like 3 months long and was massively dragged out. I think it was that long to give the impression that you were really learning something when the reality was somewhat different. I remember asking the main trainer (older bloke who is not at Axia, am not surprised+ my g/f never liked him when she heard the classroom lectures-thought he was full of it) that after all the theoretical discussions after the fact in the classroom, I would very much like to see a trader using Marketdelta in real time to see how to use it and to see how they analysed charts. Guess what-it didn't happen. We were never really told how to try to utilise marketdelta and it's information in real time. I think trader dante does more of that in one free video than futex ever did! So that was when alarm bells started ringing.
And to be honest, a lot of this course was also "this volume profile-so now you've read a book about it go out and use it yourself in your trading, it's up to you to figure it out, we can't tell you how to use it as everyone is different." Absolute guff. Throughout this extended time of absolute guff there was a database of training videos, and by far the best ones were done by Brannigan who sadly did not feature that much in the classroom, and nor did Alex. This course had been running for years and I'm not sure how much input Alex or brannigan ever really had, especially in light of how well they communicate their trading ideas in other courses.
Following on from that, the futex price ladder course was excellent, and that was because I think my vague acquaintance Alex and other traders like Brannigan and Miltos constructed it and ran it themselves, without the guff from Futex management (who on my brief dealings with appeared to be rather unlikeable. Turned out my instincts were correct!).
It looks as if Axia Futures and their training has been constructed by Alex and Brannigan (no I haven't taken any of them them though), and if that's the case then I can definitely vouch for them as they will get to the point pretty quickly.
So to be clear-I have a vague connection with Alex, and have met Brannigan once (I think?), and both of them really know their stuff, and most importantly, are highly capable of communicating their knowledge.
So if you're looking for a training course then I can definitely recommend them, especially if they have managed to cut away a lot of the guff from any foundation courses!
As an aside, there's a lot of sharks in the trading world, and I very nearly handed over a good whack of money to trade via futex before they went bust. I would have lost it all to those absolute shysters. None of the traders there had a clue what was going on and they all got shafted too. The ('alleged') fraud was only discovered when a large trader tried to take a good whack of money out and futex couldn't do it.
Alex and Brannigan are good people and are very passionate about trading and I can vouch for them. I might trade via Axia myself to take advantage of any group rates, but after the futex debacle if traders funds are all co mingled (that's how they get great commission and leverage after all) then I'll need to see a lot more detailed reporting on the state of the broking account! So I might just stick with my clearer after all now that I think about it...
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Especially if the trading included any real-edge, if any, because as soon as you get the knowledge 'out', the edge is fading and honestly, why would you as a prop shop train others for a few thousand (even 10 thousand) dollars with you precious knowledge ?
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I've been following their youtube channel, and love what they've been posting. They post stuff literally every day. They look like a serious player with new ideas that I hope shakes things up a bit.
Looks like they are offering retail trading as well. Interested to see what the details are.
Does anybody know, if they are really trading live? Or are they good analsyts and SIM-trader selling courses? Aren´t there any official documents available, that they are funded at least for their own trading? Let me guess: you must trust to what they say...
Waiting, Discipline and Patience Pays!
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Trading: Futures, spot FX, Energy Spreads Prop Firm
Posts: 61 since Jun 2011
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Before opening your wallet I would conduct some due diligence. Not just for this, you should really do it with any company you are going to effectively go into business with.
(i) how long has the company been running
(ii) how much cash does the company have in the bank
(iii) registered address - sanity check, is it registered at a private home (if so why?)
(iv) directors - what other companies are they involved with or have been involved with in the past.
the above items can be researched easily using a website like duedil.com get a free trial there are lots of others. I would be very careful dealing with companies that seem to focus on training. It's much preferable to get an actual role in at a bank, institution, fund even if it's work experience only.
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Looks like some of the Futex traders/trainer started a new prop shop/training courses only 6 months ago. The thing is, will it better than the Futex course for Dom drills as John Grady doesn't teach drills?
FWIW, I have a mate from Australia that trades professional and has all his working life. He trades out of London, Shanghai and Sydney routinely. He recently sent me a photo from Axia's desk in London where he knows two of the traders personally. This is a legitimate proprietary trading desk.
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I have token both price ladder course and volume profile course from Axia Futures.Both of they are great courses.the price ladder course is taught by Alex,and the volume profile course is taught by Brannigan Barrett.Both of them know the stuff they teach.If any one has questions regarding these 2 courses,you can PM me.
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I'd like to chime in on this to dig a little deeper into what Axia are offering and whether it's worth signing up.
I've been "offered" to join their prop/brokerage scheme where by I'm considering in putting in more than $20k in order to get their prop commission rates. They are offering a 80/20 split on profit withdrawals. There commission rates are attractive with Eurex for example being $0.84 RT. Platform fees seem to be the same to what the vendors are offering so there isn't anything they are skimming off the top there.
I've spoken to their clearer and they've told me that they are willing to offer more leverage once you start to show a bit of consistency however what is clear as day is that they are won't back anyone with their own capital even if you can show over a year of profitability. Leverage here though is only access to more lots with less margin requirements. All that seems to me increases the per trade risk % of your account and thus increasing the likelihood of ruin. Maybe I'm missing something, however it seems more logical growing your account organically at a regular broker, paying higher commission fees and taking all your profits. Perhaps if you're doing loads of RTs per day, maybe it would make more sense joining them, that's not my style of trading.
I've kind of answered my own question however I'd love to hear from anyone who disagrees or better a prop/remote trader who's been subject to similar terms?
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80/20 for remote trading (with no access to them/squawk/briefings, I assume) and no leverage - doesn't sound great. And when the tax man takes another chunk, you'll be left with....
It sounds like Axia are acting as Introducing Brokers (IB) so they will also be taking a small portion of that r/t value every time you make a trade.
If you don't mind me asking, did you get this offer because you completed their Career Programme?
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I could be wrong but the 80/20 split, with increased leverage, works very well if you're more of a scalper/order flow trader jumping in and out of the market for a few ticks. Although it's still good if you do more swing trading, but the benefits are less if you make large profits (20-30 tick swing) E.g. less margin and higher r/t/ costs as a scalper. So you jump in with 10 contracts on the bund (all your margin will allow) and exit with two ticks profit. 50 euros x 2ticks = 100 euros profit. ROund trip approx 2 euros per contract=10 euros so 90 euros profit.
Or you do the axia deal-80/20 split with round trips of about 0.9c. Now you can enter the market with 30 contracts and exit for 2 ticks profit. 30x20=600 euros profit. Round trip cost of 27 euros (instead of 60 if not trading through them), and then they take 120 (20%) which leaves you with 600-120-29=441 euros.
It's not ideal, but if you know what you're doing then you use that increased margin to go in at far higher contract levels thanks to the increased margin+decreased round trip costs, enabling you to make far more money. I would guess that larger traders turn over 300-500 round trips per day. If you do that for a whole month, then 500 round trips at 2 euros is a whopping 20,000 euros commission per month. Or via Axia, 9700 per month. Saving you over 10k alone per month. Obviously offset by the profit share, but then these profits are far higher than you can expect if you fully utilise the increased margins and go in far bigger than you normally would (with reduced costs).
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I signed up for the Axia prop trader course through Jigsaw. It's OK, but the instructor is not a very skilled presenter - he appears nervous, and stammers quite a bit. Combined with the UK accent it's a bit difficult to hold my interest.
Eugh how embarrassing yes my maths was off. Will do it again so I'm right in my own head.
Open 10 contracts in the bund and exit at 2 pips profit=200 profit
@ approx 2.50 per RT commission is 25 so profit of 175. No profit split.
@ approx 0.84 per RT commission is 8.40 so profit of 191.60. Profit split of 20% = -20 (20% of 200 profit) so it's 171.60
profit once everything is taken into account.
As stated, the advantage of the lower r/t price is because your leverage might limit you to entering only 10 contracts if not part of the 80/20 split. But you will be able to increase your leverage to trade far higher than 10 contracts-it frees you up to leverage yourself up for greater profits. That same trade in the example above, with greater leverage allowing you to enter 25 contracts for a 2 point win, is a profit of 500-commision-20% which is about 430.
It's up to each person, if you consistently make good profits then it does make sense to do the 80/20 because even though the 20% hurts, you're nearly doubling your profit potential, or more depending on the extra leverage that is gained.
But if you don't plan on using that extra leverage,whether to scalp for 1-2 pips, or for larger swings, then it's pointless to take the 80/20 deal.
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web sight looks real cool, exlent looking course by prop traders . you found real pros this time. send us 5 grand ...trust us its all good. i dont ..if they could train traders in 8 weeks or even trade all...they would not be selling educatioin.
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Actually,I think their education resource is good.I have just bought their new Footprint Chart course.It contains 30 hours' video materials with 2 months' live membership （which I have subscript for several months) The course structure is well organized,and it provides you different trading strategies,and with every strategies,there are examples and drills for you to practise.And you can ask Brannigan questions live in membership chat ,he is the course instructor ,very welling to answer your questions.I have also bought their price ladder and volume profile course,both are great course.Although I didn't attain their prop shop training,but the courses I bought really help me much,and the new footprint course fee is not high compared with what it provides and other vendors‘ footprint course,it is just 840 pounds.
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they will not produce any prof at all they even trade. i do not know where they can or not. i am not saying there training would not be helpful . but if they can not make money using it , what makes you think you can.
Well they are paying for an expensive location in London, with expensive 6-12 trading screens with desk fees in the region of £2000. A lot of the senior guys came from Futex an established prop firm at the time so I am sure they are battle worn and know what they are doing. They are using all the platforms, price ladder, market profile and volume in the way that alot of the top firms do. As they have big overheads straight off with travel, desk fees etc surely they have to be pretty good just to make a living. Also they don’t sell the bullshit dream that trading is easy
if they can trade , what is the harm in producing the prof. why hid the wonderful news. by hiding it... they look as bad as the rest of the trading education vendors . they would be better of coning out an be honest . we just teach trading , we do not do any. teaching it pays more. that is the real truth ... that is why no vendors will produce the any prof. the vendor do not trade.
To be completely honest I have seen a lot of content from this firm and this course, and imo it’s just verbose and subjective. Perhaps it can be helpful in parts in particular learning how to drill certain scenarios, but it’s a fluff filled syllabus in large parts to me. A long list of videos doesn’t make it necessarily well rounded content, and I felt some of it was just very poorly presented. That’s just my experience of it, and it just isn’t something I’d recommend to someone new to trading (or not) wanting to learn theses topics. On that topic the most valuable thing is to find some drills and practice them, you’ll learn to see different events and behaviour and you’ll learn it.
The quote below, in my opinion, answers the question and demand for evidence or the conversation about edge. You have to earn your edge, they could probably tell you everything that they do, and the average person will not have the screen time, the exposure, the wins/losses to make it work.
"Introduction to Prop Shop Trading Exercises
If you were to join a Proprietary Trading firm starter program you might be surprised to find out that you they won’t teach you ‘the’ strategy they use for making money. They will instead teach you some foundations of trading – mainly money management, organization and an overview of various trading methods such as interpreting the DOM, Spread Trading and maybe some Technical Analysis. If you are lucky you will also receive some insights from experienced traders on the market structure, how value is determined and some basic order flow analysis. The majority of trader development is achieved through trading exercises and review through which traders start to find their own particular edge in trading the markets. Then traders are given a small account to overcome some of the psychological hurdles that arise when trading live, and to get consistent with, before being given a bigger risk allotment. The training and exercises usually last just one or two months. Depending on a traders potential you may get anywhere from 3 months to 1 year to consistently cover your costs."
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I was thinking to buy the institutional package education from jigsaw but I am not sure if It's worth the price! Can you comment a little bit your opinion. thanks in advance . ( if you want write to me a private message)
I just recently started watching, currently on module 2. So far it's OK course, but one thing I don't agree is Volume VAL VAH, I still believe old fashioned TPO works better.
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As a matter of fact, I did visit them in London back in 2019 before covid craziness. I wasn't there for a course but asked them if I could have a tour while I was in town as I'm familiar with their work and was in contact with a young trader that took their course on-line. They were kind enough to show me around and I got to talk to a couple of senior traders there. They seemed to me like a busy trading firm. I didn't buy anything from there and didn't attend any training so can't comment on that part but I can attest that at least they do have a real location and seem to have real people trading. Now are they trading real accounts I don't know, I couldn't scrutinize that much as a guest.
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To me, it appears they are trading live. With their YT videos they always show their TT ladders. On TT a sim account has yellow bar across the top saying it’s simulation.
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Waiting, Discipline and Patience Pays!
