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Axia-new prop shop in London w/training courses

  #11 (permalink)
Longyan Fujian/China
 
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I have token both price ladder course and volume profile course from Axia Futures.Both of they are great courses.the price ladder course is taught by Alex,and the volume profile course is taught by Brannigan Barrett.Both of them know the stuff they teach.If any one has questions regarding these 2 courses,you can PM me.

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  #12 (permalink)
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wyz00888 View Post
I have token both price ladder course and volume profile course from Axia Futures.Both of they are great courses.the price ladder course is taught by Alex,and the volume profile course is taught by Brannigan Barrett.Both of them know the stuff they teach.If any one has questions regarding these 2 courses,you can PM me.

How are your orderlow skills now? Did the course help you understand it better?
Did they teach you any practical skills?

If your edge puts the odds in your favor, then every loss puts you that much closer to a win.
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  #13 (permalink)
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I'd like to chime in on this to dig a little deeper into what Axia are offering and whether it's worth signing up.

I've been "offered" to join their prop/brokerage scheme where by I'm considering in putting in more than $20k in order to get their prop commission rates. They are offering a 80/20 split on profit withdrawals. There commission rates are attractive with Eurex for example being $0.84 RT. Platform fees seem to be the same to what the vendors are offering so there isn't anything they are skimming off the top there.

I've spoken to their clearer and they've told me that they are willing to offer more leverage once you start to show a bit of consistency however what is clear as day is that they are won't back anyone with their own capital even if you can show over a year of profitability. Leverage here though is only access to more lots with less margin requirements. All that seems to me increases the per trade risk % of your account and thus increasing the likelihood of ruin. Maybe I'm missing something, however it seems more logical growing your account organically at a regular broker, paying higher commission fees and taking all your profits. Perhaps if you're doing loads of RTs per day, maybe it would make more sense joining them, that's not my style of trading.

I've kind of answered my own question however I'd love to hear from anyone who disagrees or better a prop/remote trader who's been subject to similar terms?

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  #14 (permalink)
the congo
 
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Zefi View Post
I'd like to chime in on this to dig a little deeper into what Axia are offering and whether it's worth signing up.



I've been "offered" to join their prop/brokerage scheme where by I'm considering in putting in more than $20k in order to get their prop commission rates. They are offering a 80/20 split on profit withdrawals. There commission rates are attractive with Eurex for example being $0.84 RT. Platform fees seem to be the same to what the vendors are offering so there isn't anything they are skimming off the top there.



I've spoken to their clearer and they've told me that they are willing to offer more leverage once you start to show a bit of consistency however what is clear as day is that they are won't back anyone with their own capital even if you can show over a year of profitability. Leverage here though is only access to more lots with less margin requirements. All that seems to me increases the per trade risk % of your account and thus increasing the likelihood of ruin. Maybe I'm missing something, however it seems more logical growing your account organically at a regular broker, paying higher commission fees and taking all your profits. Perhaps if you're doing loads of RTs per day, maybe it would make more sense joining them, that's not my style of trading.



I've kind of answered my own question however I'd love to hear from anyone who disagrees or better a prop/remote trader who's been subject to similar terms?



Yep doesn't make sense. Why put your capital at risk to give them profits just so you get lower r/t...

Seems a classic prop shop case of attracting revenue through training people to trade. Having said that many will be looking for that.


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  #15 (permalink)
desert CA
 
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  #16 (permalink)
London, United Kingdom
 
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Zefi View Post
I'd like to chime in on this to dig a little deeper into what Axia are offering and whether it's worth signing up.

I've been "offered" to join their prop/brokerage scheme where by I'm considering in putting in more than $20k in order to get their prop commission rates. They are offering a 80/20 split on profit withdrawals. There commission rates are attractive with Eurex for example being $0.84 RT. Platform fees seem to be the same to what the vendors are offering so there isn't anything they are skimming off the top there.

I've spoken to their clearer and they've told me that they are willing to offer more leverage once you start to show a bit of consistency however what is clear as day is that they are won't back anyone with their own capital even if you can show over a year of profitability. Leverage here though is only access to more lots with less margin requirements. All that seems to me increases the per trade risk % of your account and thus increasing the likelihood of ruin. Maybe I'm missing something, however it seems more logical growing your account organically at a regular broker, paying higher commission fees and taking all your profits. Perhaps if you're doing loads of RTs per day, maybe it would make more sense joining them, that's not my style of trading.

I've kind of answered my own question however I'd love to hear from anyone who disagrees or better a prop/remote trader who's been subject to similar terms?

80/20 for remote trading (with no access to them/squawk/briefings, I assume) and no leverage - doesn't sound great. And when the tax man takes another chunk, you'll be left with....

It sounds like Axia are acting as Introducing Brokers (IB) so they will also be taking a small portion of that r/t value every time you make a trade.

If you don't mind me asking, did you get this offer because you completed their Career Programme?

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  #17 (permalink)
London UK
 
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rassi View Post
Yep doesn't make sense. Why put your capital at risk to give them profits just so you get lower r/t...

Seems a classic prop shop case of attracting revenue through training people to trade. Having said that many will be looking for that.


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I could be wrong but the 80/20 split, with increased leverage, works very well if you're more of a scalper/order flow trader jumping in and out of the market for a few ticks. Although it's still good if you do more swing trading, but the benefits are less if you make large profits (20-30 tick swing) E.g. less margin and higher r/t/ costs as a scalper. So you jump in with 10 contracts on the bund (all your margin will allow) and exit with two ticks profit. 50 euros x 2ticks = 100 euros profit. ROund trip approx 2 euros per contract=10 euros so 90 euros profit.

Or you do the axia deal-80/20 split with round trips of about 0.9c. Now you can enter the market with 30 contracts and exit for 2 ticks profit. 30x20=600 euros profit. Round trip cost of 27 euros (instead of 60 if not trading through them), and then they take 120 (20%) which leaves you with 600-120-29=441 euros.

It's not ideal, but if you know what you're doing then you use that increased margin to go in at far higher contract levels thanks to the increased margin+decreased round trip costs, enabling you to make far more money. I would guess that larger traders turn over 300-500 round trips per day. If you do that for a whole month, then 500 round trips at 2 euros is a whopping 20,000 euros commission per month. Or via Axia, 9700 per month. Saving you over 10k alone per month. Obviously offset by the profit share, but then these profits are far higher than you can expect if you fully utilise the increased margins and go in far bigger than you normally would (with reduced costs).

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  #18 (permalink)
Keller, TX USA
 
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I signed up for the Axia prop trader course through Jigsaw. It's OK, but the instructor is not a very skilled presenter - he appears nervous, and stammers quite a bit. Combined with the UK accent it's a bit difficult to hold my interest.


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  #19 (permalink)
London, United Kingdom
 
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Keab View Post
I could be wrong but the 80/20 split, with increased leverage, works very well if you're more of a scalper/order flow trader jumping in and out of the market for a few ticks. Although it's still good if you do more swing trading, but the benefits are less if you make large profits (20-30 tick swing) E.g. less margin and higher r/t/ costs as a scalper. So you jump in with 10 contracts on the bund (all your margin will allow) and exit with two ticks profit. 50 euros x 2ticks = 100 euros profit. ROund trip approx 2 euros per contract=10 euros so 90 euros profit.

Or you do the axia deal-80/20 split with round trips of about 0.9c. Now you can enter the market with 30 contracts and exit for 2 ticks profit. 30x20=600 euros profit. Round trip cost of 27 euros (instead of 60 if not trading through them), and then they take 120 (20%) which leaves you with 600-120-29=441 euros.

It's not ideal, but if you know what you're doing then you use that increased margin to go in at far higher contract levels thanks to the increased margin+decreased round trip costs, enabling you to make far more money. I would guess that larger traders turn over 300-500 round trips per day. If you do that for a whole month, then 500 round trips at 2 euros is a whopping 20,000 euros commission per month. Or via Axia, 9700 per month. Saving you over 10k alone per month. Obviously offset by the profit share, but then these profits are far higher than you can expect if you fully utilise the increased margins and go in far bigger than you normally would (with reduced costs).

Firstly your math is off in your first example...
10 contracts * 10 pp * 2 ticks = 200. After costs (20) your P&L is 180.


Secondly, if you want to compare costs on a similar basis you should use similar contract sizes for illustration purposes.

Using the same size, 10 contracts * 10 pp * 2 ticks = 200. After comms = 198.20. After split = 158.56.

So using the same R:R and not over-leveraging your 20k account to the max you are 21.44 worse off.

I guess then the only benefit of using them is to really max out your leverage which may suit spread traders but not really outright traders.

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  #20 (permalink)
London UK
 
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CobblersAwls View Post
Firstly your math is off in your first example...
10 contracts * €10 pp * 2 ticks = €200. After costs (€20) your P&L is €180.


Secondly, if you want to compare costs on a similar basis you should use similar contract sizes for illustration purposes.

Using the same size, 10 contracts * €10 pp * 2 ticks = €200. After comms = €198.20. After split = €158.56.

So using the same R:R and not over-leveraging your €20k account to the max you are €21.44 worse off.

I guess then the only benefit of using them is to really max out your leverage which may suit spread traders but not really outright traders.

Eugh how embarrassing yes my maths was off. Will do it again so I'm right in my own head.
Open 10 contracts in the bund and exit at 2 pips profit=200 profit
@ approx 2.50 per RT commission is 25 so profit of 175. No profit split.
@ approx 0.84 per RT commission is 8.40 so profit of 191.60. Profit split of 20% = -20 (20% of 200 profit) so it's 171.60
profit once everything is taken into account.

As stated, the advantage of the lower r/t price is because your leverage might limit you to entering only 10 contracts if not part of the 80/20 split. But you will be able to increase your leverage to trade far higher than 10 contracts-it frees you up to leverage yourself up for greater profits. That same trade in the example above, with greater leverage allowing you to enter 25 contracts for a 2 point win, is a profit of 500-commision-20% which is about 430.

It's up to each person, if you consistently make good profits then it does make sense to do the 80/20 because even though the 20% hurts, you're nearly doubling your profit potential, or more depending on the extra leverage that is gained.

But if you don't plan on using that extra leverage,whether to scalp for 1-2 pips, or for larger swings, then it's pointless to take the 80/20 deal.

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