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GARY NORDEN


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GARY NORDEN

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  #1 (permalink)
 CHRISBOW 
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Has anyone taken Gary Nordens scalpers courses as there is no information from anyone who has taken his course and given any feed back on it, this has been asked numerous times and no one has ever come back saying they had taken the courses, NO ONE that seems very very unusual, he is all over the internet claiming 25 years under his belt as a pit trader but no one has ever said they have taken his courses and this was asked back in 2005 by 6 different people and they got nothing back ..... weird because teachers always upset someone and they tear them to pieces in reviews but Norden has got no reviews positive or negative and he has supposed to have been on the teaching circuit for years.
Please help as I have been ripped of numerous times in the past so I would like any info to guide me in the right direction.

Thanks guys Chris

PS This was asked in 2012 NOTHING CAME BACK

Hi there Jamo,
Interested if you have decided to go ahead with this course - I too have tried to get some feedback from previous students with little luck. Assuming no one has done the course or that people don't want to let the cat out of the bag. Generally people will soon post feedback if the course was rubbish but not the other way round.
I am very interested in pursuing Flow trading and have DOM quite a bit of digging around. PM me if you want to have a chat about this.
Cheers.



alocineel, Feb 27, 2012

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 Devil Man 
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CHRISBOW View Post
Has anyone taken Gary Nordens scalpers courses as there is no information from anyone who has taken his course and given any feed back on it, this has been asked numerous times and no one has ever come back saying they had taken the courses, NO ONE that seems very very unusual, he is all over the internet claiming 25 years under his belt as a pit trader but no one has ever said they have taken his courses and this was asked back in 2005 by 6 different people and they got nothing back ..... weird because teachers always upset someone and they tear them to pieces in reviews but Norden has got no reviews positive or negative and he has supposed to have been on the teaching circuit for years.
Please help as I have been ripped of numerous times in the past so I would like any info to guide me in the right direction.

Thanks guys Chris

PS This was asked in 2012 NOTHING CAME BACK

Hi there Jamo,
Interested if you have decided to go ahead with this course - I too have tried to get some feedback from previous students with little luck. Assuming no one has done the course or that people don't want to let the cat out of the bag. Generally people will soon post feedback if the course was rubbish but not the other way round.
I am very interested in pursuing Flow trading and have DOM quite a bit of digging around. PM me if you want to have a chat about this.
Cheers.



alocineel, Feb 27, 2012

@CHRISBOW lookey here, not sure if it's all the info that you're trying to find but...




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 PaulK410 
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Thank you, Chris, for the post. I am interested as well hearing from someone that has taken Gary's training course. (positive, negative, both) I have read Gary Norden's book, 'An End to the Bull' and have seen a few of his promotional videos. I am very interested getting some feedback.

Thanks!

Paul

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 rintin2x 
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I've been exchanging emails to get more info actually. One big obstacle i found is the fee. There are 2 options you can take for his courses.

1. 1 on 1: i dont want to say the price he quoted me because he might quote someone else differently. This will be 6 sessions, about 1-2 hrs per session, and unlimited follow up sessions after (sounds a bit strange, why not just unlimited sessions from te beggining). This is can be done either from his place or internet.

2. He joined some website and taking small group (i think less than 4 students), i forgot the website name but it charges something like $3000 or something (not sure).

Now, that's a lot of money at least for me. My gut feeling is that he's legit and I can learn a whole lot from him, but as you guys said, nobody ever wrote a review about it, will you take that chance? Very difficult for me to answer. Maybe one of you can ask his brokerage statement and get a better idea about it?

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 CHRISBOW 
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See the guy is still the invisible man , he is out there all over the net offering his not cheap courses and flooding youtube and numerous webinars, Pete Davis from Jigsaw doing webinars with him but not one single review by anyone or any trading group or watchdog..... nothing positive or negative in any way shape or form.
This seems very odd or has not one single person ever taken his course who could help guide and educate people wanting to come into the very difficult arena of trading.
Please can anyone who has personally taken Gary Nordens course be kind enough to speak up and give ALL of us some valuable information that can help us and guide us, it would be much appreciated as I know there is a lot more than me sat in the background waiting.

Cheers C

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 geth03 
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i also did some Research and couldnt find anything, i read his book `an end to the bulls`, he describes a bit how market makers or flow Traders Profit from the Bid-ask-spread, and they are making dozens of scalps this way and Nickels add up.

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 tabrun 
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here is a reason webinar, I watch about 15 - 20 mins only as my first impression waste of time, hope this helps


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 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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CHRISBOW View Post
See the guy is still the invisible man , he is out there all over the net offering his not cheap courses and flooding youtube and numerous webinars, Pete Davis from Jigsaw doing webinars with him but not one single review by anyone or any trading group or watchdog..... nothing positive or negative in any way shape or form.
This seems very odd or has not one single person ever taken his course who could help guide and educate people wanting to come into the very difficult arena of trading.
Please can anyone who has personally taken Gary Nordens course be kind enough to speak up and give ALL of us some valuable information that can help us and guide us, it would be much appreciated as I know there is a lot more than me sat in the background waiting.

Cheers C

That's just it though. He's not really "all over the net" offering his courses. He mentions that he'll mentor people on his website, but there's not really a lot of push to it. You have to speak to him directly via email to get any information. Seems to me like someone that is more than happy just scalping, but is willing to train others if the opportunity arises. I wouldn't be surprised if there's only a handful of people he's trained, and I doubt any of them watch the forum closely. He has a well established pedigree, and comes recommended by reliable people. If the type of trading Gary talks about appeals to you, and you have the money, I would just go for it.

He's been involved with the people over at https://www.onlinefinanceacademy.com/. They have a few slideshows to show what they are offering in their courses. Their spread trading presentation is probably the best starting resource on trading spreads that I've seen in one spot.

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 matthew28 
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TWDsje View Post
That's just it though. He's not really "all over the net" offering his courses. He mentions that he'll mentor people on his website, but there's not really a lot of push to it. You have to speak to him directly via email to get any information. Seems to me like someone that is more than happy just scalping, but is willing to train others if the opportunity arises. I wouldn't be surprised if there's only a handful of people he's trained, and I doubt any of them watch the forum closely. He has a well established pedigree, and comes recommended by reliable people. If the type of trading Gary talks about appeals to you, and you have the money, I would just go for it.

He's been involved with the people over at https://www.onlinefinanceacademy.com/. They have a few slideshows to show what they are offering in their courses. Their spread trading presentation is probably the best starting resource on trading spreads that I've seen in one spot.

Well said.
Instead of people supposedly sitting in the background waiting to be told what to think they should do their own research, including judging people by who they associate with. A person isn't going to 'claim 25 years under his belt as a pit trader' or talk about how he had a reponsibility for training people at the companies he worked at, or having trained a small number of individual people since, without a lot of people coming forward and calling bullsh** if it isn't true.
A more legitimate question IMO might be whether as a retail trader, without exchange membership which I assume he has, one will be able to get anywhere near results he talks about in his second book of 80% win, 15% scratch and 5% loss if I recall correctly, without his years of experience, and will therefore have a viable strategy with their own higher costs.

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 Keab 
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tabrun View Post
here is a reason webinar, I watch about 15 - 20 mins only as my first impression waste of time, hope this helps


I highly recommend watching his institutional trading day video. Informative stuff.

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Well - as I know Gary and have had beers with him (in Soi 6, no less), I can say this...

He trains very few people. He's just a guy that worked as a professional trader since the age of 18. He's not well known throughout the retail trading world because he has no real desire to be in it.

If you go to him with 10k in the bank and a desperate need to use that to trade and live off - he'll politely refuse you. If you are well capitalized and have your head screwed on, he will teach you.

I spoke to him about mass-producing a course but he truly believes the only way to get someone profitable is one to one. Shame because market making is a lost art - even in prop firms.

The teaching isn't full time, it's not his main gig. His main gig is consulting to funds & the like.

I am not sure how to prove he is who he says he is. I'm a vendor, so I probably just made it worse...

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 Devil Man 
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DionysusToast View Post
Well - as I know Gary and have had beers with him (in Soi 6, no less), I can say this..

....the Soi 6 got me...

I can just picture you guys at my favorite club the Soi Cowboy! lol....damn...memories of Thailand. I'm lucky to be alive!

cheers

Johnny

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Devil Man View Post
....the Soi 6 got me...

I can just picture you guys at my favorite club the Soi Cowboy! lol....damn...memories of Thailand. I'm lucky to be alive!

cheers

Johnny

Never heard of the place.

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 JimB17 
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I will note this is also of my interest and have emailed with Gary. He seems genuine but of course wants to run you through up to three courses which will potentially be $10,000. He doesn't provide "ad hoc guidance" in his term to retail traders.

There is a reviewer of his book on Amazon who according to Gary took his training. I have put a comment on his review and perhaps he will come around these parts and provide more information.

Here is quote from Gary via private email to me:

"I teach a few, selected retail traders each year. The review you saw from Bob who is one of my clients. Bob had taken many courses before and I think was really impressed with what I taught him."

Here is a link to the Amazon review and my comment regarding same:

http://link.sylikes.com?publisherId=615103&afPlacementId=3045&afCampaignId=koqonmhjoy0002cl0o2eu&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Freview%2FR3S8LTWCFAI41V%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26ASIN%3D0730311449%26cdMSG%3DaddedToThread%26cdPage%3D%26newContentID%3DMxTBTY3HAEAW1T%26newContentNum%3D1%23CustomerDiscussionsNRPB



I heard about him via Pete and read his book as well as watching videos found here and elsewhere on the net. Do not question his integrity but of course the buy-in to find out if what he is teaching works for you is quite significant.

As an update I was under a misinterpretation. I have left this original content verbatim and followup corrected in a posting below regarding there only being ONE course on Scalping.

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 dk27 
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Question everyone, especially asking 10K. If he is a real deal, he should have no problem to produce broker statements.


JimB17 View Post
I will note this is also of my interest and have emailed with Gary. He seems genuine but of course wants to run you through up to three courses which will potentially be $10,000. He doesn't provide "ad hoc guidance" in his term to retail traders.

There is a reviewer of his book on Amazon who according to Gary took his training. I have put a comment on his review and perhaps he will come around these parts and provide more information.

Here is quote from Gary via private email to me:

"I teach a few, selected retail traders each year. The review you saw from Bob who is one of my clients. Bob had taken many courses before and I think was really impressed with what I taught him."

Here is a link to the Amazon review and my comment regarding same:

http://link.sylikes.com?publisherId=615103&afPlacementId=3045&afCampaignId=koqonmhjoy0002cl0o2eu&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Freview%2FR3S8LTWCFAI41V%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26ASIN%3D0730311449%26cdMSG%3DaddedToThread%26cdPage%3D%26newContentID%3DMxTBTY3HAEAW1T%26newContentNum%3D1%23CustomerDiscussionsNRPB


I heard about him via Pete and read his book as well as watching videos found here and elsewhere on the net. Do not question his integrity but of course the buy-in to find out if what he is teaching works for you is quite significant.


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 rintin2x 
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I Don't know the 10G you're talking about. The scalping course is only 3G something taken from OFA, where taken directly from him is a bit more, differences between the 2 is not mentioned and forgot to ask. It can go to 10G if you're taking other courses offered there but they are not taught by Gary and it's not mandatory to take.

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 rintin2x 
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And as far as his technique, I did find something similar word market making in one of the online course offered in australia. The owner was kind enough to give me free pdf of this drill. Please don't ask me to share with you guys because he mentioned not to share it with anybody. Search it and ask the owner yourself.

The only thing I can share imho is this tehnique is more suitable in slow trading hours. I haven't spent enough doing the drill, but from the result i gathered so far, cheaper commissions is a must.

I believe it might be somewhat similar to what Gary's offered, but you kind of have an idea it's also different because i believe it's tailored specifly for general retail traders.

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 geth03 
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i started working for a prop firm this week and they teach a market maker style of trading. capturing the spread and in addition if you know how to use different ecn s even when you scratch a trade you can get the rebate.
but this style of trading doesnt fit my personality.


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 JimB17 
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rintin2x View Post
The only thing I can share imho is this tehnique is more suitable in slow trading hours.

Well that is one question I had for him, asking how one catches a single lot poor retail trader buy at Bid for example if it is ES and there are hundreds of orders on the Bid already. I said could see how could sit with Limit order on the Bid and if filled flip it to the Offer on Limit, and ride a trend that way a bit. But he did not respond beyond suggesting disclosure would involve becoming a client.

---

And regarding not trusting people unless they have broker statements, I have little doubt he is doing fine with this technique. However I have spent enormous time investigating and trying to follow others who have written numerous books, have their own terminology, trading room, trading courses and yet when asked if they will provide tangible evidence they are making money with these involved techniques plead they can't because (fill in the blank here).. Or others who claim to make trades in low float stocks where the stocks never even trade at the prices they state they get filled at with large volumes..

Thankfully there are people out there who will work to verify for good or bad those offering vendor services, this industry seems pretty darn large and totally Wild West. Students trying to learn at least have forums like this one where ideas can be exchanged as well as experience with various techniques and teachings.. I have hundreds of books have read but as the Market is changed with algos, HFT and most importantly Central Banks most of those old "rules for traders" are entirely obsolete.

Finally as have gotten older realize in many areas of life these days there are more people who either consciously or unconsciously are not quite as honest as we were taught to be on the moral front. Or they have been mislead and mis-taught over decades such as am finding in researching holistic health care and cancer prevention/treatment type topics. And let's not even start on Politics..

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 rintin2x 
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@JimB17 I think as a former market maker himself, he can spot market making activities easily. That's why he confidently saying he's aiming for 70% success rate and no more than 2 ticks loss. If this market making technique is what i'm thinking, yes for sure can't lose than 2 or 3 ticks at most. But I have a feeling it also comes with a bias which direction the price will go because as @geth03 mentioned, market maker has it's own privilages, get a rebate even for BE. Remember one of market maker's job is to provide liquidity, don't care where the price will go, just care about making a market??? So how does it leave us retail traders? For sure you will go broke if you keep paying those fees per trade on BE trades, the only answer i can come up for now is you need to spot where the game is being played and still need a bias which direction it will go.

I never actually asked for any kind of statements from him because i feel he's very different from other self claimed trading gurus. You can spot this kind of scam already on their website promising you the world. 1st he charge pretty high but I never have the feeling he's trying to advertise his course, if he did i think it's not agressive at all. 2nd Bob or whomever taken his course never really given bad review, which can be assumed either they are now successful OR they are just feel embarrassed because they are still not making money OR they signed somekind of aggreement not to disclosed anything about what it is and things like that OR ....fill in the blank. You can see even on OFA website, his course is the most expensive one than the others.

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 JimB17 
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As a quick followup I appear to be under a misimpression the Bob person took multiple courses from Mr. Norden. Although he has taken multiple courses, Mr. Norden said he only teaches the one course which I believe is $3750. On one website thought there were numerous other courses mentioned but I could have been incorrect.

Mr. Norden also contacted me to clarify this and also stated that his (successful) clients he advises it is "not in their interest to tell people". If they have an edge from his teaching why tell others. Hence a possible reason why there are no statements regarding his teachings.

I did not mean to mis-represent anything originally nor now. However I was under the impression multiple courses were offered and suggested by Mr. Norden and this is what the Bob guy had taken.

So still no idea exactly who is suited for this training or what it directs people toward or how applicable it is to anyone's personal trading nature. However there apparently is just the one course not multiple ones.

I don't believe my commission structure would let me profit from single tick scalping however, hence without any further clarity there is little reason for me personally to move forward with this path personally.

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 geth03 
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JimB17 View Post
As a quick followup I appear to be under a misimpression the Bob person took multiple courses from Mr. Norden. Although he has taken multiple courses, Mr. Norden said he only teaches the one course which I believe is $3750. On one website thought there were numerous other courses mentioned but I could have been incorrect.



Mr. Norden also contacted me to clarify this and also stated that his (successful) clients he advises it is "not in their interest to tell people". If they have an edge from his teaching why tell others. Hence a possible reason why there are no statements regarding his teachings.



I did not mean to mis-represent anything originally nor now. However I was under the impression multiple courses were offered and suggested by Mr. Norden and this is what the Bob guy had taken.



So still no idea exactly who is suited for this training or what it directs people toward or how applicable it is to anyone's personal trading nature. However there apparently is just the one course not multiple ones.



I don't believe my commission structure would let me profit from single tick scalping however, hence without any further clarity there is little reason for me personally to move forward with this path personally.


exactly. i trade my own account when eurex opens and trade at the prop firm the US session. i pay around 3 per RT with my broker and nearly nothing at the prop firm. it makes it really hard even to scratch a trade bc you want at least get one tick to cover the comission. Eg i see a good setup, i enter with market bc i think i wouldnt get a fill with limit order. however the market goes 1 tick against me. when i exit the trade bc i think again i would not get a fill with the limit order i exit with a market order, that makes 3 tick loss + commission.
what i mean by this is retail trader scalping sucks a little bit. for one tick loss you need 2 tick winner to have little more than BE.





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MichaelFlowTrader
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I've been interested in his teachings for a long time. I watched all his videos and then read his book maybe 2 years ago?

I tried to piece together what he actually teachers from the limited information that is available, I've also contacted him twice. I have no doubt that he is legit and he is vouched for by some high trust individuals.

I always wonder what does he mean by 'value' when it comes to his market maker strategy, how exactly do you find bad orders and exploit retail traders-- Where can we generally find info about manual market making?

Maybe in a year I will pony up the $3700 just to see him. Right now when I'm trading ONLY off the DOM, I'm just a momentum rider. It also seems like his techniques would work best on slower markets but those seem to be the most exploited by algos?

So when it comes to trading the DOM it seems like the most afffordable choices are Axia, Futex and NoBS. My but is that Gary seems to teach something more nuanced and worth learning than the others.

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 ZenTrader2015 
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Like many of the traders on this post i also am very interested in learning the scalping method of Gary Norden. I contacted him last night via email after researching for hours and i was prepared to move forward with the 3750 price i found listed on a few posts and on the online finance academy listing. However as he responded to me today and told me in the email the price is $6,600 AUD for his course now. That converts to about $5100 USD. He said he is no longer associated with online finance academy and that was his new cost.

As much as i want to learn his method there is no way i am personally spending that much to anyone for lessons or anything else.

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 rintin2x 
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ZenTrader2015 View Post
Like many of the traders on this post i also am very interested in learning the scalping method of Gary Norden. I contacted him last night via email after researching for hours and i was prepared to move forward with the 3750 price i found listed on a few posts and on the online finance academy listing. However as he responded to me today and told me in the email the price is $6,600 AUD for his course now. That converts to about $5100 USD. He said he is no longer associated with online finance academy and that was his new cost.

As much as i want to learn his method there is no way i am personally spending that much to anyone for lessons or anything else.

Agree...it's quite a leap of faith when you have to pay that much money and not sure if you can be profitable. But if you do have abundant of money, I guess nobody can say anything too

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MichaelFlowTrader
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I still have a strong interest in Gary's training, but not at $10,000. I have no doubt he is the real deal. I have been playing around with my own ideas, and those shared with me, that seem similar to what he teaches. I like it because you aren't a momentum chaser like most other styles of DOM trading. What I don't like is that I do not have anyone to learn from. Ughghg $10,000 mi ofght be nothing if you compare it to a university education, learning a skilled trade or 10 years worth of buying Starbucks everyday. I think i have a lot of the puzzle pieces but not enough to put it all together.

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 ZenTrader2015 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
I still have a strong interest in Gary's training, but not at $10,000. I have no doubt he is the real deal. I have been playing around with my own ideas, and those shared with me, that seem similar to what he teaches. I like it because you aren't a momentum chaser like most other styles of DOM trading. What I don't like is that I do not have anyone to learn from. Ughghg $10,000 mi ofght be nothing if you compare it to a university education, learning a skilled trade or 10 years worth of buying Starbucks everyday. I think i have a lot of the puzzle pieces but not enough to put it all together.

I hear you, theres no way im forking out anything close to that amount. I am interested in order flow but at a reasonable price and method that i feel will suit me best

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 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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I recall Pete saying that one of the top guys on the Jigsaw leaderboards was a student of Gary's? Perhaps we can get him to give a review?

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MichaelFlowTrader
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Correction edit-----

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  #31 (permalink)
 TWDsje   is a Vendor
 
 
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I forget who it was, but they're up there consistently / won the monthly prize a few times. Perhaps it was mrgekko? Help us out DionysusToast.

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MichaelFlowTrader
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TWDsje View Post
I forget who it was, but they're up there consistently / won the monthly prize a few times. Perhaps it was mrgekko? Help us out DionysusToast.

I doubt DT is willing to tell and it probably doesn't benefit that 'top of the list' trader to share any information, which I believe he probably has agreed to not share these proprietary techniques.

The biggest risk in seeing Gary is finding out his style doesn't fit you.

There are concepts that I have wanted to understand. I have had some good conversations with members here in PM about them:

(1) How to define value

(2) How to put together your watchlist to get a wider view, and one that might foreshadow the product you trade (I'm using a quote board with a basket of products from stocks, options and the standard futures products to get an idea 'what kind of day' is being experience in the markets. Hopefully, leading to correlations and 'value'.

(3) How do you find 'bad orders/trades' and 'pick them off', and does this involve making the market and premptively giving bad prices?

Where else can I find information on manual market making techniques outside of manual options market making? I can find white paper after white paper on quant based algo market making, but very little outside of options manual market making.

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  #33 (permalink)
Meadows
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Have talked with Gary . If everything goes alright , will start his training shortly . Feel free to ask about feedback , if Gary doesn't forbid me from talking about what's taught in the training - I'll say as much as I can .

Also , don't know why everybody is talking about it's price being $10,000 . Currently , he's offering it for AUD 7,700 which roughly equates to $5,500 .

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MichaelFlowTrader
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Meadows View Post
Have talked with Gary . If everything goes alright , will start his training shortly . Feel free to ask about feedback , if Gary doesn't forbid me from talking about what's taught in the training - I'll say as much as I can .

Also , don't know why everybody is talking about it's price being $10,000 . Currently , he's offering it for AUD 7,700 which roughly equates to $5,500 .

Nice. I doubt he will let you speak much about it. When you listen to the Q/A he did with Jigsaw, which was the best video I have found concerning him he doesn't want to go into detail. I'm doubtful he would want you to go beyond what is already shared in the public. I doubt you would want to give away your lessons freely to those who haven't paid for it.

LOL All my questions are the specifics-- How do you catch small traders, what conditions do you trade to avoid large trades but also instantly (within seconds) take your profits-- that typically takes momentum created by larger trades.

Currently, my trades are typically in the seconds, I consult watchlists to know what kind of day we are having, I also look at NetChange to get an idea of what kind of moment we are having, I enter on limit orders, I'm in and out with 1-4 ticks in seconds unless i don't follow my rules and hang on and face drawdown to get a winner (Bad) but it has been working, but I want to tighten up my game. My win percentage is beyond 80%, I don't get all the scratch trades he does, my misses are-- the market blows past me before I can get in, or I'm facing heat when i wait to long to jump in.

I use what is printed via market orders hitting, my view on the day, my view of the moment to enter. I'm still using momentum. I'm attempting to figure out more what is being priced in when price velocity increases, I carefully watch volatility to know if I can play or not....

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 matthew28 
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Meadows View Post
if Gary doesn't forbid me from talking about what's taught in the training - I'll say as much as I can .


MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Nice. I doubt he will let you speak much about it. When you listen to the Q/A he did with Jigsaw, which was the best video I have found concerning him he doesn't want to go into detail. I'm doubtful he would want you to go beyond what is already shared in the public. I doubt you would want to give away your lessons freely to those who haven't paid for it.

What Michael said. If you are paying somebody $5,500 for a course, you want their full support to help you achieve your goals. Not to piss them off by wanting to hand out all of their knowledge for free on the internet. You're working to be a successful professional trader, not a popular internet guru.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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Meadows View Post
Have talked with Gary . If everything goes alright , will start his training shortly . Feel free to ask about feedback , if Gary doesn't forbid me from talking about what's taught in the training - I'll say as much as I can .

Also , don't know why everybody is talking about it's price being $10,000 . Currently , he's offering it for AUD 7,700 which roughly equates to $5,500 .

Good Luck! Before plunking down that large sum of cash, I hope you are able to verify that he successfully trades using the method he teaches.

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MichaelFlowTrader
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kevinkdog View Post
Good Luck! Before plunking down that large sum of cash, I hope you are able to verify that he successfully trades using the method he teaches.

Gary Norden is well vouched and seems to be a high trust individual. He doesn't even really market his services, definitely not actively to retail traders.

It will be interesting to see if what GN teaches meshes with the previous poster.

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 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Gary Norden is well vouched and seems to be a high trust individual. He doesn't even really market his services, definitely not actively to retail traders.

It will be interesting to see if what GN teaches meshes with the previous poster.


As long as OP did his due diligence before signing up, that is the key.


Theranos was well vouched for - just look at the amazing board of directors they had - and seemed to be high trust individuals. Yet no investor ever got audited financial statements. Now Theranos is gone.

In more of the trading realm, Ninja, by virtue of their Ecosystem, vouches for many "educators," yet quite a few have been exposed by the CFTC as outright frauds.

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 johny1971 
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Meadows View Post
Have talked with Gary . If everything goes alright , will start his training shortly . Feel free to ask about feedback , if Gary doesn't forbid me from talking about what's taught in the training - I'll say as much as I can .

Also , don't know why everybody is talking about it's price being $10,000 . Currently , he's offering it for AUD 7,700 which roughly equates to $5,500 .


Don't forget to get a feel for his ideas or where you may be headed you can check out his book, An End to the Bull. It was a good read. He does a fine job of critiquing the retail industry, explaining heuristics, and, of course, setting up a mindset/approach to trading.

I wrote him after reading the book and he wrote back with an answer to my question and he offered his course and that was the only time he did so. Also, I have seen his youtube stuff and it is pretty good, particularly his critique of candles - for example, if there is a race and the person in third place wins because the leader and second fell down, but all you knew was the finish (ie third place won), you wouldn't do well assuming third will win again.

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 johny1971 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Currently, my trades are typically in the seconds, I consult watchlists to know what kind of day we are having, I also look at NetChange to get an idea of what kind of moment we are having, I enter on limit orders, I'm in and out with 1-4 ticks in seconds unless i don't follow my rules and hang on and face drawdown to get a winner (Bad) but it has been working, but I want to tighten up my game. My win percentage is beyond 80%, I don't get all the scratch trades he does, my misses are-- the market blows past me before I can get in, or I'm facing heat when i wait to long to jump in.

I assume this is regarding ES or some other product than treasurys. Or, are you quoting Gary.

Thanks.

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MichaelFlowTrader
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johny1971 View Post
I assume this is regarding ES or some other product than treasurys. Or, are you quoting Gary.

Thanks.

The above quote is my own, and the style I've developed from reading/watching Gary Norden, Kevin Toch, Grady and so on.

Yes, this is for Equity Futures. I've decided to quit trading ZF/ZN/ZB. I was kind of programmed to think that I had to trade Treasuries as a scalper, safe slow, you don't get destroyed as easily (fast gains/even quicker losses w/ equity Futures), but for me faster markets require fewer psychological adjustments, just better entries, SL discipline and knowing when/where I can do my business.

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Meadows
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After some consideration , now I believe it won't be beneficial for me to talk about his training stuffs . Therefore , I've decided not to talk about it - at all .

Good Trading !

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MichaelFlowTrader
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Why not play the queue?

Resting on a lot of bids and offers. Ensuring that you are at the top of the queue ready to be filled by market orders.







Sent using the futures.io mobile app

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mattjack9708
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Meadows View Post
After some consideration , now I believe it won't be beneficial for me to talk about his training stuffs . Therefore , I've decided not to talk about it - at all .

Good Trading !

Hi.. Are you still adopting Gary's strategy? Is it really consistently profitable and how long did it take you to get profitable?

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  #45 (permalink)
Meadows
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mattjack9708 View Post
Hi.. Are you still adopting Gary's strategy? Is it really consistently profitable and how long did it take you to get profitable?

I've added my own tools & structures with Gary's strategy, but backbone is still Gary . If you're willing to put in the long hours for practicing the method , it can be consistently profitable.

About 6 months - give or take . Mainly depends on how many hours you're putting in each day.

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mattjack9708
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Meadows View Post
I've added my own tools & structures with Gary's strategy, but backbone is still Gary . If you're willing to put in the long hours for practicing the method , it can be consistently profitable.

About 6 months - give or take . Mainly depends on how many hours you're putting in each day.

Is his strategy only for thicker market like bonds? If I want to trade the ES/NQ, would his strategy be a great fit?

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Meadows
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mattjack9708 View Post
Is his strategy only for thicker market like bonds? If I want to trade the ES/NQ, would his strategy be a great fit?

Thicker markets are preferable , but not essential . You can trade ES or other markets with this.

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mattjack9708
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Why not play the queue?

Resting on a lot of bids and offers. Ensuring that you are at the top of the queue ready to be filled by market orders.







Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Hi Michael,

Did you take Gary's course in the end?

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mattjack9708
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Meadows View Post
Thicker markets are preferable , but not essential . You can trade ES or other markets with this.


Hi Meadows,

I have decided to take Gary's course next month. But I would like to ask how much win rate do you currently have with his strategy and how long did it take you to become this consistent? Besides, if I only get to trade the first 1 hour of the US open only, will that strategy work?

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 matthew28 
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mattjack9708 View Post
I have decided to take Gary's course next month.

Looking at his website, more to the point, has he decided to take you? From what I have read about him I understand he works with few retail traders.


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mattjack9708
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matthew28 View Post
Looking at his website, more to the point, has he decided to take you?


Yes

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  #52 (permalink)
 matthew28 
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mattjack9708 View Post
Yes

That's good. Well done.

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  #53 (permalink)
Meadows
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mattjack9708 View Post
Hi Meadows,

I have decided to take Gary's course next month. But I would like to ask how much win rate do you currently have with his strategy and how long did it take you to become this consistent? Besides, if I only get to trade the first 1 hour of the US open only, will that strategy work?

Hello,

You've also sent me a PM today - I've replied there.

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  #54 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
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matthew28 View Post
Looking at his website, more to the point, has he decided to take you? From what I have read about him I understand he works with few retail traders.


I think Norden overhypes how different his techniques are because his take is that most retail traders have not been exposed to dom scalping. i also don't think he is hyper selective. I've only talked to one person who attempted to take lessons with him who was gently turned down based on a qualifier Ive heard no other Norden student use. Likely using that excuse to turn away a newest of newby noobs who would probably not take well to the technique.

I had to strangle information out of some of his students, and when we've gotten into the meat of things, they've paid almost $5000 for what I figured out on my own studying the DOM using the small granules of information Norden has shared. I also showed them things Norden didn't show them. He only makes it sound hyper difficult because most retailers have limited exposure to dom, scalping, not using charts and they resist what he says.

I've lost interest in Norden once I hit near the numbers he has said you are supposed to reach as a scalper... My only interest now would be to dig and see what else he isn't sharing that could create edge.

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 mkata 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
I've lost interest in Norden once I hit near the numbers he has said you are supposed to reach as a scalper....

Hmmm, what numbers are you supposed to reach as a scalper?

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  #56 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
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mkata View Post
Hmmm, what numbers are you supposed to reach as a scalper?

Watch his videos on youtube and read his book, he talks about win rate expectation.

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 mkata 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Watch his videos and read his book.

Wow, Thanks for that helpful answer.

However I did take your advice and I should have read the thread more closely.
For those interested he aims for 1 to 3 ticks profit per trade with an 80% win rate, trading 10 to 50 times per session.
So I suppose depending on how many contracts you trade with your daily haul should be about 1k to 10k.

For reference:
1) post #10 of this thread
2)

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 ALC77 
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There is someone on this site (probably on this thread) claiming to be a student of Gary's who is offering to sell Gary's material. Don't get scammed - someone has already been scammed out of $$$.


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 matthew28 
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I got that one too.
For completeness, the above quoted email by ALC77 was sent out from Gary Norden on January 2nd to people who have either requested updates via email on his website (me), or are a client of Organic Financial Group.

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MichaelFlowTrader
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ALC77 View Post
There is someone on this site (probably on this thread) claiming to be a student of Gary's who is offering to sell Gary's material. Don't get scammed - someone has already been scammed out of $$$.


I got that email too. The only Norden student on FIO, or at least someone who has identified themselves as a Norden student is Meadows... I doubt he would still be around if he has scammed people, or perhaps scammed ppl might be too ashamed to admit they were scammed on the forum?

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mattjack9708
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After some events that occurred regarding all these gary norden stuff, I can only warn the readers to be aware of the scams going on.

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 matthew28 
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mattjack9708 View Post
After some events that occurred regarding all these gary norden stuff, I can only warn the readers to be aware of the scams going on.

That's very ambiguous.
Mid December (Post #49 and #51), you said you had decided to take his course and that you had signed up with him.
Are you saying that:
You were scammed?
or
You are still doing the course and everything is great, but other people need to be aware of scams, and therefore only contact the real Gary Norden?
A big difference between the two?

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  #63 (permalink)
MichaelFlowTrader
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matthew28 View Post
That's very ambiguous.
Mid December (Post #49 and #51), you said you had decided to take his course and that you had signed up with him.
Are you saying that:
You were scammed?
or
You are still doing the course and everything is great, but other people need to be aware of scams, and therefore only contact the real Gary Norden?
A big difference between the two?


A lot of us are dirty and desperate when it comes to wanting to find everything that we can about Norden. We've joked about sending sexy spies to his house to learn all his secrets, but if you spend enough time in the underbelly of the trading community, especially all the offshoot small groups, then you can't help but run into scammers who promise that they have Norden materials.

MattJack was in a trading group with me, and we wanted to wait for Norden's new training materials to come out and do a group buy to hedge the risk of it being a disappointment.

During this time he was also in conversation with Meadows (the guy in this thread who claims to be a Norden student) about if he should spend the money to learn directly with Norden.

Meadows propositioned him, in middleman fashion, that he had another friend who is also a Norden student who would be willing to sell him copies of the material.

MattJack brought this information back to the group.

Our group went back and forth about this, and I ultimately said no I would rather wait and get the legit materials from Norden that are coming out in January.

We all went our separate ways-- so he and the other guy either went through with the deal and got scammed, or they went through and have the material and he is just covering his back. It is difficult to say which because he will not give an answer.

I sent Norden screen grabs of the various conversations to let him know that someone is selling his materials.

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ALC77 View Post
There is someone on this site (probably on this thread) claiming to be a student of Gary's who is offering to sell Gary's material. Don't get scammed - someone has already been scammed out of $$$.



Funny think - that's what inspired Gary to do something I have been bugging him to do for ages.

Put it down on paper.....

So now he has

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 matthew28 
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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
A lot of us are dirty and desperate when it comes to wanting to find everything that we can about Norden. We've joked about sending sexy spies to his house to learn all his secrets, but if you spend enough time in the underbelly of the trading community, especially all the offshoot small groups, then you can't help but run into scammers who promise that they have Norden materials.

MattJack was in a trading group with me, and we wanted to wait for Norden's new training materials to come out and do a group buy to hedge the risk of it being a disappointment.

During this time he was also in conversation with Meadows (the guy in this thread who claims to be a Norden student) about if he should spend the money to learn directly with Norden.

Meadows propositioned him, in middleman fashion, that he had another friend who is also a Norden student who would be willing to sell him copies of the material.

MattJack brought this information back to the group.

Our group went back and forth about this, and I ultimately said no I would rather wait and get the legit materials from Norden that are coming out in January.

We all went our separate ways-- so he and the other guy either went through with the deal and got scammed, or they went through and have the material and he is just covering his back. It is difficult to say which because he will not give an answer.

I sent Norden screen grabs of the various conversations to let him know that someone is selling his materials.

Thanks Michael for your comprehensive reply. It is good for this thread to have a clear answer showing who isn't involved in any scamming, and who is doing the right thing.

Hopefully without sounding condescending, well done on alerting Gary Norden. In this age of digital media it really annoys me that too many people seem to mistake purchasing a licence to use educational material for their sole use, with having the right to share it out or sell it on themselves to whoever they like. Always with a sense that after paying "It is their right to be able to help themselves to all of somebody else's experience, knowledge, hard work, reputation.....
Good job well done.

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matthew28 View Post
Thanks Michael for your comprehensive reply. It is good for this thread to have a clear answer showing who isn't involved in any scamming, and who is doing the right thing.

Hopefully without sounding condescending, well done on alerting Gary Norden. In this age of digital media it really annoys me that too many people seem to mistake purchasing a licence to use educational material for their sole use, with having the right to share it out or sell it on themselves to whoever they like. Always with a sense that after paying "It is their right to be able to help themselves to all of somebody else's experience, knowledge, hard work, reputation.....
Good job well done.

Well, I was complicit in contemplating a bit of wrong, but ultimately sided on the side of higher ethics.

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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
A lot of us are dirty and desperate when it comes to wanting to find everything that we can about Norden. We've joked about sending sexy spies to his house to learn all his secrets, but if you spend enough time in the underbelly of the trading community, especially all the offshoot small groups, then you can't help but run into scammers who promise that they have Norden materials.

MattJack was in a trading group with me, and we wanted to wait for Norden's new training materials to come out and do a group buy to hedge the risk of it being a disappointment.

During this time he was also in conversation with Meadows (the guy in this thread who claims to be a Norden student) about if he should spend the money to learn directly with Norden.

Meadows propositioned him, in middleman fashion, that he had another friend who is also a Norden student who would be willing to sell him copies of the material.

MattJack brought this information back to the group.

Our group went back and forth about this, and I ultimately said no I would rather wait and get the legit materials from Norden that are coming out in January.

We all went our separate ways-- so he and the other guy either went through with the deal and got scammed, or they went through and have the material and he is just covering his back. It is difficult to say which because he will not give an answer.

I sent Norden screen grabs of the various conversations to let him know that someone is selling his materials.


There's a guy in Indonesia that does this - a new site pops up now and again with hundreds of trading products. He's pretty attentive on the chatbot and so it must be working for him as it's a full time gig.

The deal is - you give him money and when enough people have given him money, he'll buy the product and send it to all the people that gave him money.

But obviously - he's way on the wrong side of the law anyway - plus he's in South East Asia - so really - what's going to happen if he just keeps all the money himself? You can hardly go to the police and say "he took my money for a pirated course".

It's the perfect crime. I've shut down a few people like this but it's more effort than it's worth - 99% of people buy stuff and you don't chase your tail for the 1% would would never have got it anyway.

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MichaelFlowTrader View Post
Well, I was complicit in contemplating a bit of wrong, but ultimately sided on the side of higher ethics.

We all contemplate a bit of wrong every now and again

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 dk27 
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@Tengoku, why did you delete your review?

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 Tengoku 
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@dk27 Nothing new

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 dk27 
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To me it looked very new and different from consensus of this thread. Hopefully you will change your mind.


Tengoku View Post
@dk27 Nothing new


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 KahunaDog 
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Jigsaw Trading View Post
had beers with him (in Soi 6, no less)

All i see is soi6...
Good guys go to ...
Bad guys go to ....

Fall Seven Get Up Eight
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KahunaDog View Post
All i see is soi6...
Good guys go to ...
Bad guys go to ....

lol

To be fair - we met in the Queen Vic on a Saturday afternoon. He was only there for the afternoon on a cruise - so he had no idea....

I got their early, sat in the window, so I could watch him run the gauntlet!

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dk27 View Post
To me it looked very new and different from consensus of this thread. Hopefully you will change your mind.

Well, I was talking about the exorbitant price (999usd) for scalping manual, where u ll get +/- 60 pages of PDF about stuff easilly accessible in google, nothing special at all.
Plus some voice video, which u ll get every quarter I think. No live trade examples...

Deceptive name of product, which is very far away from scalping manual (u ll not learn how to scalp from this!). More like s basic indotruduction about orderflow, what is spread etc.

So, my reccommendation, dont buy, otherwise u ll be definitelly dissapointed, if u already incorporated orderflow in your trading and even, if you dont, u ll not learn it from this stuff

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 Viktory 
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Well, this is my opinion:

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