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Have anyone bought the Systematic Order Flow Success Bundle from Ninjacators.com


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Have anyone bought the Systematic Order Flow Success Bundle from Ninjacators.com

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  #1 (permalink)
 wyz00888 
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Hi,has any one bought the Systematic Order Flow Success Bundle from Ninjacators.com,if so,could you please give me some ideals about this indicator product?Thank you!

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 forgiven 
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but you have to ask yourself if it worked as advertised would they be selling it for a few hundred bucks. would none of the 60,000 members on the sight have no idea. this kind for stuff is ever where this vendor and indicator ware house has some new sure fire system rolled out every week. the system will work super in a trending market , that is what they show you in the example. the bad news in a side ways market your chopped into little peaces. it is the reverse of what they show you,there all losses. the market trends 20 % of the time. hope it helps.

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 wyz00888 
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forgiven View Post
but you have to ask yourself if it worked as advertised would they be selling it for a few hundred bucks. would none of the 60,000 members on the sight have no idea. this kind for stuff is ever where this vendor and indicator ware house has some new sure fire system rolled out every week. the system will work super in a trending market , that is what they show you in the example. the bad news in a side ways market your chopped into little peaces. it is the reverse of what they show you,there all losses. the market trends 20 % of the time. hope it helps.

Hi forgiven,Thank you very much for your insight.It is a order flow indicator Bundle,not a trading system,I am searching a footprint indicator which suit my style.But thanks for your reply.

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 forgiven 
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wyz00888 View Post
Hi forgiven,Thank you very much for your insight.It is a order flow indicator Bundle,not a trading system,I am searching a footprint indicator which suit my style.But thanks for your reply.

keep in mind foot prints are lagging the orders have already been executed.the orders waiting in the book to be executed or pulled may give you a better idea of whats coming next. it does for me any way. holy grail foot prints are hot now. i bought me some $10,000 foot prints and training when they first come out 8 years ago. i would stay out of that theater of operations. prop traders do not use them. if you went into a prop shop you would see nothing but domes. hope it helps

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 wyz00888 
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forgiven View Post
keep in mind foot prints are lagging the orders have already been executed.the orders waiting in the book to be executed or pulled may give you a better idea of whats coming next. it does for me any way. holy grail foot prints are hot now. i bought me some $10,000 foot prints and training when they first come out 8 years ago. i would stay out of that theater of operations. prop traders do not use them. if you went into a prop shop you would see nothing but domes. hope it helps

Yes,you are right,prop firm most traders trade the DOM with out Chart,and I have learn how to scalp by using Jigsaw DOM with some success,but I am not realy liking scalping,I want to swich to intraday swing trade,so I think footprint may give me some helps.

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
keep in mind foot prints are lagging the orders have already been executed.the orders waiting in the book to be executed or pulled may give you a better idea of whats coming next. it does for me any way. holy grail foot prints are hot now. i bought me some $10,000 foot prints and training when they first come out 8 years ago. i would stay out of that theater of operations. prop traders do not use them. if you went into a prop shop you would see nothing but domes. hope it helps

Footprint works.
Not all prop traders or fund traders use doms exclusively. Your statements are blanket and encompassing.

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KahunaDog View Post
Footprint works.
Not all prop traders or fund traders use doms exclusively. Your statements are blanket and encompassing.

All the props I have seen use DOM. TT, CQG and CTS
Did not see anything else...EVER

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wyz00888 View Post
Yes,you are right,prop firm most traders trade the DOM with out Chart,and I have learn how to scalp by using Jigsaw DOM with some success,but I am not realy liking scalping,I want to swich to intraday swing trade,so I think footprint may give me some helps.

Well - keep in mind that the market doesn't care what you like! ;-)

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 KahunaDog 
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mattz View Post
All the props I have seen use DOM. TT, CQG and CTS
Did not see anything else...EVER

Matt Z
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There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


^To clarify all the prop firms you've seen only use DOM? And nothing else?
Or DOMs on those professional platforms.

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 forgiven 
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when you use foot prints you have to make the leap of faith all orders executed on the ask are sellers and the bid are buyers. if i have a buy limit orders in the Q and there executed on the ask or the down tick am i a seller. if there is a big difference on one side it my have some limited value . 70% of the trading volume are algos . there not trading on foot prints. if you are trading futures there is a spreed between the cash SPY and the futures. when that spreed becomes extended algos kick in and trade it. that call that spreed the Prem and you can chart it, if you know what your doing. the algos use limit orders. that kind of trade execution makes foot prints like jello ( no mater what D.B. says)

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 Silvester17 
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forgiven View Post
when you use foot prints you have to make the leap of faith all orders executed on the ask are sellers and the bid are buyers. if i have a buy limit orders in the Q and there executed on the ask or the down tick am i a seller. if there is a big difference on one side it my have some limited value . 70% of the trading volume are algos . there not trading on foot prints. if you are trading futures there is a spreed between the cash SPY and the futures. when that spreed becomes extended algos kick in and trade it. that call that spreed the Prem and you can chart it, if you know what your doing. the algos use limit orders. that kind of trade execution makes foot prints like jello ( no mater what D.B. says)

interesting!!

maybe I'm missing something. my limited understanding tells me to create a trade, you need 2 orders. a marketable order and a limit order. so all orders executed on the ask are buys (marketable buy order matched with a limit sell order). all orders executed on the bid are sells (marketable sell order matched with a limit buy order).

also if I have a buy limit order, this order will never be executed on the ask.

of course I'm always eager to learn new things

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 forgiven 
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if you have a resting limit order in the Q to buy at X and the market down ticks and your order is executed . what side of the foot print chart does your transaction show up on . or if your shorting at x and the market up ticks and fills the order what side of the foot print does your executed order show up on . if you look at foot prints for a long time you will see large numbers of contract executed on what looks to be the wrong side of the trade be for a reversal. i thought it was traped traders at first. then i notice it happened at one thick in front of floor pivots a lot. i do not know ever thing too. the main point looking at foot prints are lagging are they not...the orders have already been executed. just because orders where executed at x , that does not mean there will be more orders there when price returns. you also do not know the intent of the traders that executed the orders. were they covering shorts or opening new longs when they buy. now if your limit buy order is X and as price is pull down and you see other orders being pulled out of the way in large numbers ..do you still want to buy it... lets flip that lets say price is coming down and large numbers are being added trying to front run a key reference point by a tick.. how does that buy look... but any trader being helped by foot prints keep using them. like the broker said prop trader do not use them .

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 forgiven 
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KahunaDog View Post
^To clarify all the prop firms you've seen only use DOM? And nothing else?
Or DOMs on those professional platforms.

if there trading index futures ,they will have all 3 major domes up. if look to buy they will not until bids are being lifted on all , reverse for sell.

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 Silvester17 
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forgiven View Post
if you have a resting limit order in the Q to buy at X and the market down ticks and your order is executed . what side of the foot print chart does your transaction show up on .

on the bid (left side)


forgiven View Post
or if your shorting at x and the market up ticks and fills the order what side of the foot print does your executed order show up on .

on the ask (right side)


forgiven View Post
the main point looking at foot prints are lagging are they not...the orders have already been executed.

if you want to look at it this way, sure why not. everything executed can be called lagging. but at least I know it has been executed. as for the limit orders (dom), you don't know if they get executed, cancelled, modified or who knows what. I prefer to put my money on facts ...


forgiven View Post
now if your limit buy order is X and as price is pull down and you see other orders being pulled out of the way in large numbers ..do you still want to buy it...

I almost never put in limit orders. when I see heavy selling (on the bid), but price does not go lower and then moves up, that's a first sign for a possible reversal.


forgiven View Post
like the broker said prop trader do not use them .

hmm, are prop traders a superior species? not really something I would pay attention to


forgiven View Post
you also do not know the intent of the traders that executed the orders. were they covering shorts or opening new longs when they buy.

you're correct. unless you have some information, you don't know. no footprint or dom will tell you

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 forgiven 
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i used them for 8 years..if they work for you outstanding. 70% of the trading volume are algos . what foot print charting package do you think Goldman Sacs and Morgan Stanley are executing from ?

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
if there trading index futures ,they will have all 3 major domes up. if look to buy they will not until bids are being lifted on all , reverse for sell.

My point was this.
The way he wrote it makes it appear prop traders do not use any charts at all. Yes many execute and watch on the dom. Yes many likely use algos as well. But the way he wrote it was misleading. Mattz correct me if I am wrong on they do not use charts at all, my post said dom exclusively.
I've seen prop traders use various charts to get their bearings.

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
if you have a resting limit order in the Q to buy at X and the market down ticks and your order is executed . what side of the foot print chart does your transaction show up on . or if your shorting at x and the market up ticks and fills the order what side of the foot print does your executed order show up on . if you look at foot prints for a long time you will see large numbers of contract executed on what looks to be the wrong side of the trade be for a reversal. i thought it was traped traders at first. then i notice it happened at one thick in front of floor pivots a lot. i do not know ever thing too. the main point looking at foot prints are lagging are they not...the orders have already been executed. just because orders where executed at x , that does not mean there will be more orders there when price returns. you also do not know the intent of the traders that executed the orders. were they covering shorts or opening new longs when they buy. now if your limit buy order is X and as price is pull down and you see other orders being pulled out of the way in large numbers ..do you still want to buy it... lets flip that lets say price is coming down and large numbers are being added trying to front run a key reference point by a tick.. how does that buy look... but any trader being helped by foot prints keep using them. like the broker said prop trader do not use them .

There's a lot of ways to use the footprint.
There is also a lot of information that means nothing to one profitable trader and something to another trader who is profitable as well.
And yes looking at past information is what is a good about it.
Knowing how to read it and what to read is critical.

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
when you use foot prints you have to make the leap of faith all orders executed on the ask are sellers and the bid are buyers. if i have a buy limit orders in the Q and there executed on the ask or the down tick am i a seller. if there is a big difference on one side it my have some limited value . 70% of the trading volume are algos . there not trading on foot prints. if you are trading futures there is a spreed between the cash SPY and the futures. when that spreed becomes extended algos kick in and trade it. that call that spreed the Prem and you can chart it, if you know what your doing. the algos use limit orders. that kind of trade execution makes foot prints like jello ( no mater what D.B. says)

Keep in mind are passive orders what move markets?

or aggressive orders? from trapped traders and orders trying to be aggressively done.


From my limited understanding it is aggressive orders that move the markets.



Another point, prop traders often are in it for the day.
Bigger money does come in at value levels
or if they got orders.
So they will have to execute a lot aggressively, in effect moving the market.
They will also show where they are executing by their past history.

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
i used them for 8 years..if they work for you outstanding.


forgiven View Post
when you use foot prints you have to make the leap of faith all orders executed on the ask are sellers and the bid are buyers.

Bro ?

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 forgiven 
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you would think where talking about Obama care. not order flow .

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 forgiven 
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mattz View Post
All the props I have seen use DOM. TT, CQG and CTS
Did not see anything else...EVER

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

when looking at a foot print charting the orders on the left side are executed on the bid , right side ask. are 100% of the orders on the ask all sellers and 100% bid all buyers

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 Silvester17 
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forgiven View Post
when looking at a foot print charting the orders on the left side are executed on the bid , right side ask. are 100% of the orders on the ask all sellers and 100% bid all buyers

not sure what you don't understand. every trade needs a buyer and a seller. if the order gets executed on the bid, someone had a buy limit order (passive order) and someone used a marketable sell order (aggressive order) to hit that bid. and this trade is considered a sell. and that's 100% of the time, no exceptions.

in order to use footprint charts, one should have a sound understanding of order flow. and you seem to struggle quite a bit. so I agree, it's better for you not to use this kind of tool

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
when looking at a foot print charting the orders on the left side are executed on the bid , right side ask. are 100% of the orders on the ask all sellers and 100% bid all buyers


Limit orders are passive and do not move markets.
Aggressive orders are what move markets

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 wyz00888 
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KahunaDog View Post
^To clarify all the prop firms you've seen only use DOM? And nothing else?
Or DOMs on those professional platforms.


Silvester17 View Post
not sure what you don't understand. every trade needs a buyer and a seller. if the order gets executed on the bid, someone had a buy limit order (passive order) and someone used a marketable sell order (aggressive order) to hit that bid. and this trade is considered a sell. and that's 100% of the time, no exceptions.

in order to use footprint charts, one should have a sound understanding of order flow. and you seem to struggle quite a bit. so I agree, it's better for you not to use this kind of tool

Thanks Silvvester17,you and KahunaDog really gave me some insight of footprint chart,and I think both of you really understand how footprint and order flow works,could you point me a resource where I can learn more about footprint?Thank you!

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 Silvester17 
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wyz00888 View Post
Thanks Silvvester17,you and KahunaDog really gave me some insight of footprint chart,and I think both of you really understand how footprint and order flow works,could you point me a resource where I can learn more about footprint?Thank you!

you're welcome.

I think one of the best resources you'll find are from market delta. here're a few links:

https://marketdelta.com/videos/

https://marketdelta.com/webinar/

https://www.xtick.com/

good luck

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 wyz00888 
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Silvester17 View Post
you're welcome.

I think one of the best resources you'll find are from market delta. here're a few links:

https://marketdelta.com/videos/

https://marketdelta.com/webinar/

https://www.xtick.com/

good luck

Thank you very much Silvester17,BTW,do you think MarketDelta's payed education course worthes to be bought?

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 Silvester17 
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wyz00888 View Post
Thank you very much Silvester17,BTW,do you think MarketDelta's payed education course worthes to be bought?

I don't know. I think that course is pretty new. not sure what it's all about.

market delta got reorganized not too long ago. a lot of good stuff got lost (or maybe I just can't find it anymore). anyway for people new to footprint charts (btw created by market delta), there was a lot of useful information with explanations and examples.

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^To clarify all the prop firms you've seen only use DOM? And nothing else?
Or DOMs on those professional platforms.

They use DOMs for execution. These are not stand-alone DOMs but part of a platform.
I did not see some over the top charting when I experienced it.

Prop is a different culture of traders. They trade, not analyze.

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That is what I referred to, and respectfully your initial statement may have been misleading to some

I am not sure why. I did mention the platforms.

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 KahunaDog 
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I am not sure why. I did mention the platforms.

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Because Forgiven is going on how dom is used by professiomals.
I then wrote are they using doms "exusively", you then quoted my statement immediately after saying
Cqg, tt are all you have seen,
and if one did not know what those were they could believe that all prop firm traders use are dom.
When in effect they use charts and fundamentals and a whole cope of things.
What could be further confusing is some people in this thread through their posts displayed they do not know the difference between the bid and the ask on a footprint chart or what actually moves the markets.

I deleted my recent text cause I felt it was redundant and wanted to be respectful.

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Because Forgiven is going on how dom is used by professiomals.
I then wrote are they using doms "exusively", you then quoted my statement immediately after saying
Cqg, tt are all you have seen,
and if one did not know what those were they could believe that all prop firm traders use are dom.
When in effect they use charts and fundamentals and a whole cope of things.
What could be further confusing is some people in this thread through their posts displayed they do not know the difference between the bid and the ask on a footprint chart or what actually moves the markets.

I deleted my recent text cause I felt it was redundant and wanted to be respectful.

You are always respectful. All your posts.

I never want to appear arrogant and say my experience is the only experience.
In the past, you had more of "pure" prop guys who may get ideas from fundamentals, charts patterns, etc. while they execution may have come in a variety of ways. Nowadays, I see more quants and spread traders amongst the props.
Spreaders use DOMs. Quants use direct APIs.

Prop business has become difficult nowadays. I saw more prop shops turning to education and "training" (in the last few years) because the pool of talent has decreased.

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 wyz00888 
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Reading DOM or footprint is just a piece of the jigsaw of trading.

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 forgiven 
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KahunaDog View Post
Because Forgiven is going on how dom is used by professiomals.
I then wrote are they using doms "exusively", you then quoted my statement immediately after saying
Cqg, tt are all you have seen,
and if one did not know what those were they could believe that all prop firm traders use are dom.
When in effect they use charts and fundamentals and a whole cope of things.
What could be further confusing is some people in this thread through their posts displayed they do not know the difference between the bid and the ask on a footprint chart or what actually moves the markets.

I deleted my recent text cause I felt it was redundant and wanted to be respectful.

what foot print charting do you think morgan stanley and goleman are executing from. i am not going on about professionals using doms..there is a reason xtrader does not have foot prints. professional trader do not us them. it just a fact. all the orders on foot prints have already been executed. the are lagging are they not.

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
what foot print charting do you think morgan stanley and goleman are executing from. i am not going on about professionals using doms..there is a reason xtrader does not have foot prints. professional trader do not us them. it just a fact. all the orders on foot prints have already been executed. the are lagging are they not.

There are various grades/levels of professional traders.
I'm sure some do use(d) footprints, I know a few individuals that trade their own money that do, some former floor traders.

I don't know who Goleman is.


Re- footprint lagging
Yes they display where orders occurred. But isn't that a good thing? Knowing where mm size occurred. Then you know where to watch.

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There are various grades/levels of professional traders.
I'm sure some do use(d) footprints, I know a few individuals that trade their own money that do, some former floor traders.

I don't know who Goleman is.


Re- footprint lagging
Yes they display where orders occurred. But isn't that a good thing? Knowing where mm size occurred. Then you know where to watch.

you use bookmap it has volume profile to see the HVN or where they occurred. you will not use the OFA foot prints in time. it took me 7 years to let them go. that is GOLDMAN SACS they are not using OFA for order execution. the problem with the OFA program and foot prints is your brain washed that you can make a 4 to 8 tick stop work. good luck with that

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 Silvester17 
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forgiven View Post
you use bookmap it has volume profile to see the HVN or where they occurred. you will not use the OFA foot prints in time. it took me 7 years to let them go. that is GOLDMAN SACS they are not using OFA for order execution. the problem with the OFA program and foot prints is your brain washed that you can make a 4 to 8 tick stop work. good luck with that

according to your logic you can't use volume profile, because that certainly is lagging. is it not? so what you're saying is that professional traders only look at limit orders? as per your logic they can't look at market(able) orders because they're already executed when you see them. lagging again. damn those professionals are in a tough situation.

sorry to hear it took you 7 years to realize you still don't understand footprint charts.

but I do agree with a 4 to 8 tick stop being difficult to make it work. I prefer to use a 3 tick stop.

and who exactly is GOLDMAN SACS?

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 forgiven 
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Silvester17 View Post
according to your logic you can't use volume profile, because that certainly is lagging. is it not? so what you're saying is that professional traders only look at limit orders? as per your logic they can't look at market(able) orders because they're already executed when you see them. lagging again. damn those professionals are in a tough situation.

sorry to hear it took you 7 years to realize you still don't understand footprint charts.

but I do agree with a 4 to 8 tick stop being difficult to make it work. I prefer to use a 3 tick stop.

and who exactly is GOLDMAN SACS?

if you like your foot prints use them by all means , 3 tick stop ..sure with 90% winner and a 10 to 1 risk reward on top of that ,i would bet..

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 KahunaDog 
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forgiven View Post
you use bookmap it has volume profile to see the HVN or where they occurred. you will not use the OFA foot prints in time. it took me 7 years to let them go. that is GOLDMAN SACS they are not using OFA for order execution. the problem with the OFA program and foot prints is your brain washed that you can make a 4 to 8 tick stop work. good luck with that


Yes I use bm and footprint.
Small stops can be used with orderflow. It is also market dependant.
As was said, it's unfortunate you recognized footprints were not for you after 7yrs.
For effective footprint use, you should only be looking at it near key levels, not the entire session.

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 michaelleemoore 
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Silvester17 View Post
according to your logic you can't use volume profile, because that certainly is lagging. is it not? so what you're saying is that professional traders only look at limit orders? as per your logic they can't look at market(able) orders because they're already executed when you see them. lagging again. damn those professionals are in a tough situation.

sorry to hear it took you 7 years to realize you still don't understand footprint charts.

but I do agree with a 4 to 8 tick stop being difficult to make it work. I prefer to use a 3 tick stop.

and who exactly is GOLDMAN SACS?

Priceless post, @Silvester17. Perfectly wrought. Also, I trade with an 8-tick stop, but get out earlier if I feel I'm wrong.

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Looks like marketdelta.com is no more. Ninjacators latest Price Flow Pro looks like fun but I'm not falling for it.

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