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Ultimate Vendor Vetting Process Proposal for FIO
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Ultimate Vendor Vetting Process Proposal for FIO

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
knoxville tennessee usa
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker/Data: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Favorite Futures: ym
Posts: 499 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 99 given, 228 received

i not trying to be jonny rain cloud

but could some one tell why they would join the combine...after you jump through all of the hoops..they do not put that much at risk..you get a 30,000 account but your booted with a 1500 draw down... then they get 30% plus com. and you pay your own data.. it would take 100 years to trade the size to live on... if you are going to play trader why not trade in sim..why give them 200 a month,

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  #12 (permalink)
Market Wizard
North Carolina
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
Posts: 612 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 257 given, 699 received

Right the account sizes don't mean anything. They should just get rid of that and show the contracts and leverage. Good question. The 30k is very small but does have the best risk/reward metrics for the trader. I think I'd go for the 50k if I did it--not 100% sure though. The only good reasons I can think to join the combine would be:

1. You have already demonstrated on a simulator you can meet the goals. I would never take a combine unless I had at least 2 weeks data showing I could beat it. So, anyone thinking of doing a combine should do 2 weeks on the simulator first.
2. You are a discretionary trader and feel like you can trade better without having own money at risk.
3. You want to trade very risky or unfamiliar products.
4. For the benefits of self-promotion, to prove you can do it.
5. They do offer ability to trade more contracts but you'll need to be a heck-of-a-trader to do it.
6. Fast money. If you were very confident you could win, just do the combine, take the 5k and go out on own.

The reason most people give for doing a combine is to make themselves accountable or something like that. I really don't think that is a good reason. If TST raised the risk capital to some significant portion of 25k with a 2k daily loss limit: I would strongly consider. But as is, it's tough to justify. They should offer pass-thru member exchange fees and up the risk then it would make more sense.

The typical reason you want to go to a prop firm is because there is unlimited scaling potential. The OneUp trader does claim to have a scaling plan which makes more sense. On the other hand, TST does give unlimited time to beat it so it's not as bad as it used to be.

The real potential for a day trader is a combination of daily loss limit, their skill, and the markets. If all the stars aligned it would be possible to start with 2k and end up with 8k at the end of 1 month. That's 20% return per day on risk and is theoretically possible. If you think for example, you can day trade with 2% risk per day on a 100k account and you have a great start-- certainly possible. Do that for 3-6 months and you'd have a decent account--assuming you don't need any of that to live on.

But back to topic, one thing to consider also is how good a fit a method is for you.

It is like a drug. Most people think a drug works or doesn't work. Reality is most drugs, that are approved, work for some portion or percentage of the population. So, even if a vendor has a method that's viable, reality is that it's probably only able to work for say 25% to 50% of the people who try it. There are reasons behind this that aren't obvious but that do exist (i.e. implicit learning ability).

Reality is most people who try to learn anything are "dabblers". They want to do it but not bad enough to master it. A lot of people try out BJJ, like I did, for the fun: reality is most will never become a black belt and that's perfectly okay. And, reality is also even if you spend $100 per hour for 1-1 with a black belt, it won't make you a black belt.

Last edited by tpredictor; January 31st, 2017 at 04:31 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
knoxville tennessee usa
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: nijia trader
Broker/Data: A.M.P. I.Q. ....C.Q.G.
Favorite Futures: ym
Posts: 499 since Mar 2012
Thanks: 99 given, 228 received

sad but what you said is true

there there for lack of any thing better to do,, they are not sure if they can trade so they can take a test run...dealing with them and all the rules would have to be painful. like touching a hot stove would you not learn more quickly ..with your own money ..i did..

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