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I was watching this software being used by Kam in L2ST's room. It seems impressive, but no trial and they want quite alot upfront, I think over 1k per Kam, he just uses it not affiliated with it. Does anyone have experience with it? I have tried the JThomas Level2 Real Tick but I am lost.
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(1) I would never pay any upfront fee without trial, no serious vendor of commercial products would ask you this.
(2) There are a lot of good simulators that you can use to try scalping. NinjaTrader for example would be a free software that comes with access to real-time FOREX data and allows you to record the sessions. There is also a choice of other software.
(3) Micro-Scalping cannot be done with a retail account.
(4) The website and the software do not look professional.
-> I would definitely not spend any money to purchase this product.
The following user says Thank You to Fat Tails for this post:
Ok thanks for feedback. I actually think the product seems good, in that they can read the order book in a number of different ways, but right their GUI is amateur. Just curious since I haven't seen or heard much about them.
I've seen it and I'm a bit skeptical. There are so many head games going on with the order book that I'm not sure there is an edge there.
For those who say without a trial it's not serious etc.. well the author doesn't want to sell it to everyone. He wants to keep it semi-private so he put a high price tag and that accomplishes his goal of wanting to share a little but not too much. I understand his approach.
I'd say skip it unless you're really hard core into scalping the dom and stuff..
The following 2 users say Thank You to cunparis for this post:
Hi, I am the author of the FutureScalper software and would simply like to make a couple of comments:
Moderator Notice
This post has been modified. Vendors are not allowed to promote their products in any way on futures.io (formerly BMT). The parts of this post that were considered promotional have been deleted.
Vendors are welcome on futures.io (formerly BMT), but they cannot self-promote. -- Big Mike
1) Advanced trading software is really not amenable to "free trial" and "demo". [edited]
2) Almost all aspects of this analysis are completely original and innovative. This means one can't really appreciate nor comment on them without an in-depth experience over weeks and even months.
3) One cannot compare "generic" platforms with highly specialized ones. [edited]
4) To claim that micro-scalping cannot be done on a retail basis is certainly not the case. Of course, there are "brute force" co-located scalping engines which are 1 msec or less from the exchanges. [edited]
If software is truly innovative, then at least consider the possibility that you can do things with it, that you previously had not thought possible. Listening for radio waves would be futile without a radio receiver.
No platform has tried to analyze realtime COTn or DOM trends in the way this platform does. Therefore, it's at least possible, isn't it, that radically different capabilities could emerge.
Of course, in conclusion, I would never say that trading could ever be easy. Also, nobody's aggressively pushing this platform, for which there are only a couple dozen client users. My motivation in offering it, is to share new technology with traders who feel it can help them in their work.
Thanks for allowing me make a few comments, and please keep an open mind about trading.
Last edited by Big Mike; July 30th, 2010 at 10:52 PM.
Reason: removed self-promotional wording
The following 6 users say Thank You to FutureScalper for this post:
Advanced (i.e. expensive) software most certainly is available for trial. Advanced algo software developers, of the order traded by fund managers and banks alike, ALL have trials.
"Twice burned, three times shy!" as the saying goes. After I got socked for $3,200 a year and half ago on a piece of 'hyper discretionary' software that I could not trial, I said, "never again." Usually, the lack of a trial period = hyper discretionary system where nothing is clear accept to the owner of the software who will "teach" you for another $1,000 how to use it AFTER you bought it for $2,500.
From that time to this, I am only interested in trail trading packages, all of which I did not purchase. Without a trial period, one can be suckered over and over again. The key is to trade a method that makes sense to you.
If you have a system that is as spectacular as you claim, then put down the rules for trading it and automate it. Lastly, put down your own money letting it trade in real-time providing verifiable evidence of account growth.
Too many discretionary systems out there that only make sense to the guy wanting to sell it. Undoubtedly, the seller is convinced that it works. And it may work well but for him/her. Therefore, prove it by having rules so clear that it can be automated. Otherwise, allow clients to test drive it.
Forgive me for sounding harsh. I have little faith in vendors who for reasons of "advanced" this and that cannot allow for a 5-day trial. Sheeeeshshsh...!
COTtrader
"Ken"
Aha! I just visited your website and discovered that your system was one that I had purchased some time ago and begged to get my money back. I will confess that the system has a unique entry system at the bid/ask. The accumulation and distribution analysis is unique, too. However, I was so enamored with the millisecond action of the "popping bubbles" to determine when to go for a scalp that I often got beaten up by the market. The system has a very steep learning curve. I was always trying to clearly read the squiggily lines.
For what its worth, you need a few standard indicators thrown into your system just to help the scalper see the bigger picture. The layout needs sharpening. Too many lines flowing over each other to make sense out of what is happening. This is not for the faint of heart.
Last edited by COTtrader; July 31st, 2010 at 05:02 PM.
Reason: Now I remember ...
The following 3 users say Thank You to COTtrader for this post:
Vendor alert. Well, I have a couple of comments. Just a little pushback, and some reasons why "trials" or "demos" may have limited value.
First of all, my view is that discretionary trading is a complex activity, which requires complexity Analytic capabilities. Most traders agree with that.
If it were possible to "automate" trading, using "artificial intelligence" and achieve results better than an experienced human trader, then that might be a useful thing to try.
However, real markets, and real trading are such dynamic entities and activities that there is no substitute for experience, as they say.
Let's say you want to become a Jet Fighter pilot, but need a "trial" in order to decide whether you can survive a fire fight.
That, of course, is absurd. Months and years of experience are necessary. This, of course, is why humans remain in cockpits, because only experience can yield optimum results in combat. Drones are piloted by humans as well...
Some trading platforms have "automated signals" but my view is that this is unlikely to be successful in a real dynamic market. False positives, false negatives, etc. are the sorts of factors which fixed trigger strategies can create. Here we're taking the "analog" world of the market, and imposing a "digital" decision structure through some decision to react when some analog situation crossed over a "threshold" of some kind. BUY @x now with Target @y and Stop @z Even that's way too simple in my view.
I do believe that "semi-automatic" computer-assisted aids are essential, but always in the context of a Trader who makes the fundamental decision on a discretionary basis.
Short term scalping, or what I would call micro-scalping, is a dynamic environment which requires both human discretionary action, as well as computer-assisted short term analysis and trigger capabilities. Things just happen too fast for some reaction times, and the trader's experience level is critical in determining whether or not she should even get involved in the prevailing action. Sometimes, it's best to walk away from a fight or, in this case, not to get involved in the trade action, which you can recognize through long hours of experience.
Given this, with software that provides dozens of complex charting views of realtime indicators, a "demo" or "trial" is just a waste of time.
Any software or approach which requires a significant training "learning curve" is just not appropriately offered in a "trial" mode. Experience shows that most clients accept this, and also the responsibility to work hard over literally months in order to begin to master various capabilities.
In my case, the message is very clear. Most traders will fail. The reasons for failure include, but are not limited to, insufficient effort at understanding capabilities, insufficient account financial strength, choice of inappropriate markets, and a whole host of other factors.
We are almost always trying to base trade decisions on objective technical indicators, but translation of a cluster of indicators into a Trade Decision is far too complex to automate.
And this doesn't take into account the widely varying markets available in Futures contracts, ranging from T-bonds through to FX futures. No single rigid approach is ever going to handle that dynamic range.
Every poor trader I've met is looking for the "holy grail". And many want "the system" to do the work for them. I doubt I'll get much argument that successful Traders will probably shake their heads at that, and realize how much accumulated experience was required to get them into "survivability mode" in the markets.
Just some thoughts on the reasons for requiring an up-front commitment, an extended period of cumulative training and consultancy; and on the general nature of short term trading which is extremely dynamic with what I can only best describe as an "opportunistic" character to it.
Hi all My first post here and was wondering if anyone is considering purchasing the L2ST 3 day video course, if so would love to chat to you as I am really looking to purchase it but would like views from others, I know this thread is about futuresscalpers.com and I am sorry for going off topic, so to stop this thread being about L2ST please private IM me if its something you are looking at as I am still not sure about it and the cost is high.
