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I'm not trying to be difficult but I have the following observations which I think can help many retail traders.
1) TraderGee sounds more like a retail vendor or marketer than a retail trader.
2) "If it's rebranded Vinny did a hell of a job." Not If, it has been shown already.
3) "they are enjoying some pretty nice gains." and "I'm happy to be with this group and we make money" are both meaningless statements. I asked TraderGee for his verified trading record which he didn't provide.
5) Vinny doesn't disclose the size of most of his trading accounts (he says he has many). But we have captured several huge drawdowns he has had.
For many/most retail traders those amounts would mean a trading account blow up. Vinny has had margin calls himself meaning he blew up and could not trade anymore at least for that day.
See attached images:
a) Sept 2016 (excuse: "made one mistake a long time ago")
b) Oct 2019 (excuse: C2 platform errors, "C2 CEO is a liar")
c) Sept 2023 (excuse: "a bad day, every trader has those")
The pattern here is to cherry pick the small winning days, try to hide the big losing days and blow ups, If a big losing day is captured by people then find an excuse that works for that scenario.
You got this guy, ImanTrading on YouTube, who doesn’t know how to trade, teach people how to trade, now peddling Vinny’s work. A real up and coming marketer.
You know how Vinny and his crew loves to mock ICT kids for being in denial even when presented with facts?
Yeah, that is what this is honestly. So thank you for confirming that ICT kids and Algobox traders are the same.
These are a few of what you paid for:
MkHarmonics - that's your pattern indicator
irDeltaMomentum v2 - That's your delta flags
DivergenceSpotter v2 - That's your divergence indicator
Do you know who did a good job putting it together? The authors of those indicators.
If you are going to pay anyone for their work it's them. If anyone should be credited it's them.
Not the scammer who literally went CTRL + C, CTRL + V. And yes, he didn't even bother to change the code he stole and claimed was made by him.
Why do you think he wants to scan your workspace in his code?
To steal more indicators. How do you think he got the idea for Enigma? Stolen from an indicator called DeltaDiv.
If you place anything besides Algobox indicators on there it scans for them.
Vinny makes sure that everyone hide their demo accounts and any sign that you are using a demo account from the pictures posted in the chat room.
The majority of people posting are from them trying Algobox on demo because they are in "practise".
Attacking Vinny is fine because this is a thread about Vinny the vendor. The mods said attacking other forum members is not allowed. If Vinny was posting here, then attacking him I guess would not be okay, but doesn't look like he's a member.
It's very simple, really. We require civility and simple, normal politeness between members. Rudeness and back-and-forth personal attacks by keyboard warriors are a part of the internet that we can keep out of this forum, and so we do. People can be professional and can respect each other, even when they disagree, and especially when they disagree.
Things do sometimes get heated when Vinny is the subject, on both sides. Sometimes it stays reasonably within normal bounds, and sometimes it starts to get out of hand. It is better to just cool it down before it has ramped up too far.
The intervention has nothing to do with whether Vinny's system is good or bad. It has to do with bringing down the temperature when things started to get heated between members. I was thinking about just deleting some of the recent posts, and on both sides by the way, but I hoped that a shot across the bow would be enough to quiet things down.
To be very clear, the moderator issue here is not about Vinny, or about what anyone thinks about Vinny; it's about how members show respect or a lack of respect for each other. People of course have to have some leeway, but sometimes a reminder is necessary.
Anyone who wants to post their own personal experience with or opinion of any vendor, pro or con, is perfectly welcome to. And others are welcome to disagree and to offer their experience and views. But not to get into it with other members, that's all. Very simple.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
"but we make money" - I was a member of that group for 6 months, most people in there are not making money from what I remember. Most of the "results" are from demo/evaluations/practice, not actual funded accounts or personal accounts. I remember once I was included in a livestream where Vinny was scrolling through the results people posted at the end of the session. My PnL was green but it was from an eval account and not real money. Vinny of course was like "and another member smashing it today, fire your guru!" or some dumb shit like that.
It's easy to smash the buy or sell button with 10 contracts on NQ and pass an evaluation in a single day. I saw this type of behavior alot, and I've done it personally. People using way too much size, yolo'ing, passing an eval in a day, doing their best to look cool and prove the tools work, and then the screenshots get spread around social media as if that is just an average day.
Also, notice how many of the screenshots posted by members don't include commissions? Speaking for myself here, but at the end of the session, I want to know my EXACT numbers, how much I spent in commissions, my NET pnl etc. I would never consider leaving commissions out of my numbers.
Someone recently DM'd me on Twitter and told me he was involved in vinny's helping hands program, he had this to say: "The thing is, those who came through “helping hands” are required to have a twitter account and heavily engage with everything Algobox or else…"
He doesn't sound very happy in my humble opinion. Gifts that really come from your heart should never have strings attached, EVER EVER. "Hey, homeless man, here's $5, but I need you to grab a shovel and come with me...."
Another hilarious coincidence - just a week or so after I posted my refund results here, I get this strange DM on Twitter asking me to provide pirated illegal copies of Algobox software. LMAO.
And Lastly, which super duper black friday deal are you all going to jump on? The one with the TV, the golden knife from China, or the keyboard/mouse combo? Choose wisely!
What Analytic posted is true. I'd like to share my experience with you.
ICT Part
I've been trading for 4 years and have seen bits and pieces of the ICT (Michael) vs. AlgoBox (Vinny) feud for awhile. I stayed away until just a little over a month ago. I thought, why not learn what he's teaching. So, I went through the majority of his videos while applying the concepts he teaches to my charts. I was drawn to the fvg, mss, ob, and how price sought out liquidity (for whatever reason you want to believe). I've seen plenty of people who learn his concepts post their payouts and give thanks, and seen plenty of people call him a fraud, a liar, a scammer, a paper (hindsight) trader, etc. I think, in the right hands his concepts work, and of course, this also comes with your personality, how well you manage your impulses, your risk management, money management, experience, and several other factors. I'm not going to take a deep dive into everything ICT related, but my personal opinion, is it is not a scam. It's all free and made available to the public. It doesn't matter if he trades it live or paper trades, or if you dislike him as a person or think he rambles or whatever, because it is about the concepts he teaches and whether they can be applied to your trading to help you put money into your pocket. And he's proven that. Whether you hold on to that money is up to you.
AlgoBox Part
Now, onto Vinny. I had preconceived notions about Vinny because he is basically stalking Michael, calling him a narcissist, a fraud, scammer, and hiring private investigators to find out where he lives and what he and his children are doing. He harps on Michael about being a paper trader and faking statements, and not showing statements, among several other things. I feel everything Vinny says about Michael is a direct reflection of himself. Now, I really got drawn into it so I decided to do the 14 day free trial for AlgoBox because Vinny had posted on Twitter that he gave it away for free to people who can't afford it. So I joined the discord, he was polite to people and showed respect. However, I couldn't watch one of his videos without him mentioning something bad about ICT. Okay, maybe that is a lie, maybe it was 5 tops where he didn't hate on someone. I used his system, which the foundation is from Alexander Elder, using the Tide, Wave, and Ripple charts. It makes sense, no hate here. How Vinny uses that is he has the 89 Range, a 16-34 Range (based on highest probability backtesting results), and a custom "AlgoBarsRock" proprietary renko bars. He uses a MACD filter, which he calls the MAC-V (for Vinny, I guess that's not being a narcissist), with pretty colors that could be found here in the indicator search, with just the settings of 7-25-30. His discord has the MACV filter with 7-25-30 across ES-NQ-YM-&RTY, which shows Strong Sell, Moderate Sell, Neutral, Moderate Buy, and Strong Buy. Which you could basically do with the MACD having 4 data series on one chart. He uses Bollinger Bands on the HTF charts set to 2.5 dev on a 20 period and 2 emas that he calls "Bollinger Ropes", which is a 50 & 200 ema. He has a harmonics indicator which is basically just the mK harmonics you find here on this website.He uses a channel indicator set up as 143 period, which can be found on any trading platform. The only thing really unique about his system, is that he has this proprietary audio box that makes some really cool noises when price goes up and down with certain volume at certain speeds. He has a few other things, like FibElliot dots and Crosses that I don't quite understand the logic behind, a J-hook, and some other things that look good on the chart, and make sense, but do not quite understand the logic behind. I've also seen his fibelliot dots repaint, the j-hook show up way past the move had already happened, and the harmonics really aren't necessary. Then he creates this "enigma" indicator that is basically just a shot at Michael, idk, it's funny and it's sad. Overall though, past all the drama and hate, I think Vinny's system can work for people, just like the other 100-1000+ edges there are in the market as long as you can follow the rules, manage your impulses, and the several other factors that can negatively affect your personal trading.
Speaking on the character of Michael (ICT):
Pros: He seems like a really genuine person, I enjoy listening to his talks and they are so real to me. I like his personality and believe his concepts work. Cons: Filtering out all the hate he receives.
Speaking on the character of Vinny (AlgoBox):
Pros: He can be respectful to other people in his discord and his system can work. I like his 2 Finger Salute Strategy, which is basically two big conscutive tails on a 24-range chart that I've seen always work for at least 10 ticks. Cons: He genuinely is not a good person in my eyes. Filled with hate, stalker type, etc. Posted a few daily statements, but not monthly/yearly history of anything. Not that it matters, I don't believe people need to share their details whether profitable or not, mind your business lol, but Vinny is always harping about it so I thought I'd share the disconnect between what he preaches and what he does. Now, he did say he would give his system for free to people who can't afford it. You'd need a call or if not he'd give you another option. I can only imagine what he'd try to make you do if you take the call. This clicks really well when he calls all of ICT's people "muppets", because ICT isn't forcing anyone to do anything and he's giving his knowledge away for free while putting his heart and soul into it. While Vinny, on the other hand, well... When you see People on Twitter defending Vinny, you'll obviously know who sold their soul and who has their hands up where and why that person made that YouTube video pushing AlgoBox. Attached is screenshot. It's quite hilarious with the ichthys symbol while he tries to create actual muppet armies...
The TV is only worth about $170 and the knife and cap are worth about $15 , So you pay $3499 for $185 worth of stuff thus demonstrating what a truly horrible trader you really are!
Only the REAL traders will grip the golden knife in their teeth, donning the algo cap, and clicking buy 15 times like a video game while the market is going down. No worries though, if you lose it’s no big deal, it’s just a video game and not real. I almost spit my imaginary coffee out when I saw these ads. Might as well throw in a branded pen & mouse pad.
