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  #1 (permalink)
 Sctrader1 
San Francisco
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja trader
Trading: ZN
 
Posts: 8 since Dec 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 8 received

Hi everyone,

I'm a beginner learning to trade. Have any of you tried taking the classes on tradingcourses.com? It's kinda expensive ($895 for six months access). I'm still learning and I hope these classes would accelerate the learning process but I don't want to pay for something if it isn't useful, which I find most of the internet to be junk.

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  #3 (permalink)
 wyz00888 
Longyan Fujian/China
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Multicharts
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 56 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 27 given, 46 received


NoBS' course will be much better than it.

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  #4 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
Posts: 3,004 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,598 given, 5,970 received

Just use your local library, and get every book on trading you can. Most will be garbage, but after a while you'll start to get educated. You'll be able to separate wheat from chaff. Carley Garner and Brent Penfold both have written great beginner level books.

No beginner should need to pay for education.

Now, when you get more advanced, and settle in on an approach or style, then paying for education might be worthwhile. But even then, 95% of stuff out there is garbage, ore re-packaged info you can get for free.

Be careful, hold on tightly to your wallet - it is a jungle in the trading "education" world...

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  #5 (permalink)
 Blash 
Legendary Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
 
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Sctrader1 View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm a beginner learning to trade. Have any of you tried taking the classes on tradingcourses.com? It's kinda expensive ($895 for six months access). I'm still learning and I hope these classes would accelerate the learning process but I don't want to pay for something if it isn't useful, which I find most of the internet to be junk.

Seems to me you already have everything you need right here at FIO. You are Elite too so you realized the value. I say dive into the many many hours of webinars @Big Mike has put together. Ask question follow threads like

Read about other traders approach etc. IMHO worry less about a trading "system" or method but spend your time understanding how to mange risk position sizing probability creation using Excel or something similar. Have you read any Mark Douglas books? What beliefs do you hold regarding greed fear missing out leaving money on the table being right control failure needing a sure thing. Work on training your brain to be able to have 9 losing trading in a row but still being able to take the 10th trade when it shows up as if the 9 before never happened. Just like a Navy Seal has had training to the point that he can walk into a terrorist gun battle for example and conduct himself in the appropriate way to get the job done successfully where as the average guy on the street would have an accident in his pants and be paralyzed with fear.


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  #6 (permalink)
 Heph333 
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received

The information on Tradingcourses.com is very specific and not applicable to the majority of traders, IMO.
The section on personal development is very well arranged, but not anything that can't be found on FIO for free. I purchased it primarily for the DOM course and Trading drills. I found the info to be very basic & tailored specifically to a few platforms that I don't use. A major portion of the DOM course was actually just the free course from Jigsaw Trading so I didn't learn anything new there. The bulk of the drills seem geared towards trading spreads... again, not useful to me.
I found a large portion to be tailored to spreads, options and swaps. All aspects of trading that I have no interest in.

If you are interested in the topics I listed above, it may be worth the investment. But for me, I did not find it to be a good value. Part of this is due to the fact that I am a Visual/Auditory learner, so I learn best from Multimedia such as video courses. The bulk of the TC courses are text, which does not cater to my style of learning.

I agree with wyz00888, I would recommend the basic and intermediate courses from John Grady at No BS. At 1/3 the price, it is a far better value and contains information that is difficult to find elsewhere.

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  #7 (permalink)
 dom64 
London, UK
 
Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Trading: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012

If you look in the right places you will find very valuable free material out there. People who learn are looking for a "setup". There is no setup. You have to understand the markets, the players in the markets, who does what and why ans how, learn the foundations, apply and experience. Experience is something you can't learn or buy. I have trained a good number of people and nobody gets out of a training course and becomes a successful profitable Trader straight after. It very often feels like people are looking for some thing that doesn't match with the reality of the market, hence the 90/90/90 statistics that we all hear about.
I am a pure order flow trader but this applies to any other style you might choose to work with.


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  #8 (permalink)
 Heph333 
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received

I did reach out to Guy and he was very accommodating. After a brief discussion of my trading style, he provided me with some extra info and drills that were more suited to my goals. A+ for customer support.

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  #9 (permalink)
 dom64 
London, UK
 
Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Trading: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012

What I find interesting is that it is perfectly acceptable that it should take years to become a lawyer or a doctor or a mechanics etc, but becoming a trader should require to watch a couple of videos on YouTube or to take a course to become a fully proficient profitable Trader. And it should be free too or be very cheap. Any other business involve important costs, taxes, rules, efforts, etc, but to learn to trade, spending a couple of thousands is not acceptable. This is a real business and it should be taken as such, what is a couple of years learning curve and a few thousands in material, software, data to get going seriously..?


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  #10 (permalink)
 Heph333 
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received


I couldn't agree more. I lost money for the first 6 years. Then spent 5 years spinning my wheels. I've only been consistently profitable for 2. Last year exceeded my wildest expectations. I may not be six figures in debt for a doctorate, but I can guarantee I've put in as many hours.
Had I initially taken a 10 year outlook instead of trying to do it in 2, I probably could have saved myself 4 or 5 years.

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  #11 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received

Godaddy Domainsbyproxy anonymously registered, what a surprise...

If you get a chance to ask them.. why do they need this income? what is the motivation?

A competent trader trades. From my own experience I know that if you want to find talent the LAST place you look is to half boiled, head full of half crap beginners. You want smart & disciplined with a clean slate so they can follow instructions.

If there is some convincing reason why they (the two lads) need this, I'd be curious to hear it.

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  #12 (permalink)
 Heph333 
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received

Pretty much sums up Prop shops. Grab college athletes and military veterans (guys who know how to follow orders).

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  #13 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received


Heph333 View Post
Pretty much sums up Prop shops. Grab college athletes and military veterans (guys who know how to follow orders).

True, maybe it is a good way to wide net source talent.. I've never tried it but it seems a painful way to find staff.

I interviewed 20+ (sourced through agencies) talked to another dozen from forums before I found one person to be my assistant. She was an old friend I was moaning to about how hard it is to find the right stuff Under my nose all the time.

I may ask them the question myself. Why do they need to do this?

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  #14 (permalink)
 Gambit88 
Houston, TX
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra / Jigsaw
Broker: AMP / CQG
Trading: Stocks, Options, Futures
 
Posts: 41 since Dec 2015
Thanks: 34 given, 47 received

I honestly don't get the hate towards training vendors. When I started out as an engineer out of college, I spent multiple weeks for the first couple years going to training that was $500-$1000/day... When I was playing poker and grinding it out, I paid for one-on-one coaching and thousand dollar training. People would gladly pay that because one little improvement to your game could mean a ton of money coming your way.

The only reason it is so bad in the trading space is because of the large amount of vendors out there and the amount of scams there are. If only there was a place to get unbiased reviews... (THX FIO!) Look, all I'm trying to say is that the most important thing about taking these training courses is to improve your skillset and to make you money. You should question whether the vendors can add value to your trading, but you shouldn't question the value that a training marketplace provides in general.

I think chat rooms are the worst... You don't go into a chat room expecting to take the trades that everyone is posting and make money! If they are already in a trade, guess what, you MISSED the trade! A good chat room should allow you to develop your own bias, tools, and thinking to pull money out of the market

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  #15 (permalink)
 mmaker 
Toronto Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Trading: es
 
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Posts: 389 since Feb 2011
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dom64 View Post
What I find interesting is that it is perfectly acceptable that it should take years to become a lawyer or a doctor or a mechanics etc, but becoming a trader should require to watch a couple of videos on YouTube or to take a course to become a fully proficient profitable Trader. And it should be free too or be very cheap. Any other business involve important costs, taxes, rules, efforts, etc, but to learn to trade, spending a couple of thousands is not acceptable. This is a real business and it should be taken as such, what is a couple of years learning curve and a few thousands in material, software, data to get going seriously..?


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Heck these young folk learn to fly F35's, A380's and 747's like Sully in no time on a game / flight simulator!

Trading....pfffft!

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  #16 (permalink)
 Heph333 
Springfield, MO/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker: AMP CQG
Trading: ZN, ZB
 
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Posts: 43 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 49 given, 83 received

I seriously doubt the desire to fly a plane into the ground is as strong as the impulse to implode your trading account. ; )

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  #17 (permalink)
Rory
 
 
Posts: 2,743 since May 2014
Thanks: 5,444 given, 8,140 received


Gambit88 View Post
I honestly don't get the hate towards training vendors......

The only reason it is so bad in the trading space is because of the large amount of vendors out there and the amount of scams there are.

Well you kind of asked and answered there

I know what you mean, I was fortunate enough to find a school that cost some dough but I got a solid grounding with them. If I had read their FIO reviews I might not have.

The difference is (and trying to be fair/honest here not mean spirited) smart people are like bloodhounds, they just need a sniff and they are off so can benefit from almost anything.

I recall however talking to a guy who watered plants in offices for a living, 20 hours a week. He wanted something that was even easier than that.. OMG. You get all types but about 2/3 of the population are fairly easy to scam or sell crap to.

I believe its perfectly fine to sell training just as long as the person explains why they are motivated to do so. Not being able to press the button anymore is a genuine reason. The Sim kings (fake trading) however should be dealt with severely.

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  #18 (permalink)
 dom64 
London, UK
 
Experience: Master
Platform: sierra chart, Jigsaw Trading, Bookmap
Trading: 6E futures, Cable
 
Posts: 93 since Aug 2012

There is a lot of education out there yes. Some good, some bad, some cheap and some very expensive, some free to sell products, some free for the pleasure to share (yes there are some!), some free for the pleasure to shine and be listened to and to impress, some from bad traders who teach as they can't trade, some who can trade but can't teach well, and some who trade successfully and who think that since there is not magic, grail or secret, why not sharing what they know and what they do, and make a little bit of extra money in the process. The idea that someone who teaches can't trade can be true and of course does exist, but there are definitely profitable traders who trade and teach. It would be a bit like saying that Messi can't play football as he does advertising for Pepsi and Adidas (apologies to friends over the pond in the US ,to whom this name and football as it is called over here in Europe doesn't mean much, but I am sure you can transpose and find sports star over there who advertise various products on TV).
What is also certain is that it takes a years to be profitable and successful, and that there is no magical video on you tube or training material with magical content or special words that are going to trigger the profit making switch, that's it I can trade switch in people's mind, just as no indicator will tell you when to trade. It is absolutely hilarious that a large number of people are still looking for that and have never thought that if there was such an indicator or "thing" to know to be successful, it would be jealously kept by the guys who own it and know it, who would keep it to make billions, or that the very clever institutions out there on the markets, who invest billions and have very very smart highly paid people who work for them, would not discover it before some unknown guy sells it to retails on trading forums..! Why would trading be easy and should be learned in a matter of weeks is beyond me.. why should trader be educated for free is also a strange concept.. do you honestly know any fee quality education if you wish study or does it tend to be more highly expensive years and years of university and schools? Why would it be different in trading? Does anyone know of a business that doesn't require any initial investment either? Does a restaurant or bar owner has no costs? Does Apple have no costs, people to pay salaries to, products to buy from other supplies, marketing costs before they can sell they phones and computers?
Trading is a really gripping business, where no business day is like the previous one, with no annoying colleagues or boss, that you can do from anywhere in the world, with no need to commute daily to go to the office, and where you can potentially make good money.. very little costs compared to any business with tons of marginal costs, but it is still a business.. which requires to understand the markets and to study hard, proper education, proper equipment, proper data feed, proper news , proper connection, proper tools to trade with and a proper capital to trade with (5k is not a proper capital to trade with let alone $500!).

The point of my long boring post here is to say that there are scammers out there only because they are people to buy from them. People think there are shortcuts and end up in muddy dead end tracks.




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