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OneUp Trader / MES Capital / FuturesProfile (the owner lies about his identity)
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OneUp Trader / MES Capital / FuturesProfile (the owner lies about his identity)

  #151 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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The only thing i do not understand is that they say: because of overwhelming demand at launch, Evaluation Accounts are activated at 3 PM CST.

So this mean that my live account would start at June 15 but i am unable to trade until the session next day, June 16
Weird.

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  #152 (permalink)
Market Wizard
 
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tpredictor View Post
Their previous broker was Vankar trading but it looks like the website is now gone and they were banned on Oct 4, 2016 as an introducing broker. They did verify to me that MES Capital had sufficient funds to fund traders: unfortunately not a positive sign that they were banned themselves for not keeping accurate funds. It would be good to know from Ninjatrader or whoever their broker is today they have the funds: based on my previous conversations with the owner, I did believe that they were more then well capitalized for funding traders. I've no reason to believe differently. It seems Ninjatrader or whoever holds the sub-accounts today should be able to verify.

https://www.leaprate.com/news/fxcm-and-gain-capital-introducing-broker-vankar-trading-permanently-barred-by-nfa/

I had wondered how long Vankar had to live. I dimly recall noticing when my assistant was researching them (she had a very vague idea to create a female focused TST but with mandatory training & exams) that MES initially used the Vankar's office address before relocating to the British Virgin Islands. (maybe in parallel)

Perhaps Sattam of Kuwait's royal family is a..genius... shamelessly BS-ing people and shilling his own company (unnecessarily, why not just propose the idea as a vendor?) was down the toilet behavior before the rise of the Donald but Sattam was ahead of the curve in 2015.

https://futures.io/trading-reviews-vendors/36887-oneup-trader-mes-capital-future...entity-9.html#post613253

If your read through @Fenchurch's post, the Elitetrader link may make you sick in your mouth a little. I don't believe as was mentioned afterwards that those posts were made by some rogue staff member. It was Sattam, why would he stop BS-ing (why did he start?).

Oneuptrader's domain is also anonymously registered in Panama, it may be a common practice however a normal business which does not use it's real office for domain reg? Indicates a continuing shady mindset to me.

Now if things seem disorganised, read through that link and consider this is the same guy. There was an English lady but she probably has her hands full trying to keep Sattam organised (Kelly-Anne style?).

There are plenty of guys with no other option (they believe), poorer countries like Colombia for example. Or some who are are lazy (the Dude?), habitually blind to pitfalls / just want easy cash, either will go to him anyway, no matter what.

Very "the Donald" Sattam.. Hats off for seeing in 2014 that bad or inept behavior has no meaningful consequence in 2017 America, it just gets people talking about you, "flood the zone"


Last edited by Rory; June 15th, 2017 at 09:42 AM.
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  #153 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
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@Rory A bit too complicated for me to follow. It is suspect that a "Serif" made the initial ET post and was an employee only who is no longer with them (according to Sattam in a correspondence with me several years ago). Anyway I've signed up, I guess if I get scammed it won't be the first or last time. But right now looking forward to getting funding. Yes, I think it's pretty smart actually. There are a lot of great traders who can not get funding or at least one, I know of. While I'm not really sure about TST, I think Sattam's goal is truly to fund traders and make money off the trading division.

What would be useful though is for whoever their broker is today to come on and say they are funded with 1 million dollars or whatever, that would at least allay fears that it is a total scam. I don't believe it to be or I wouldn't have payed. I, also, think the fact that they are with Ninjatrader indicates they probably have the means to do this. I think with some of the other TST imitators, i.e they aren't with with a broker like Ninja or charge high fees for traniing then it might be more likely to be a scam. But, this seems straight up. Of course, I will report my experiences: good or bad here.


Last edited by tpredictor; June 15th, 2017 at 11:57 AM.
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  #154 (permalink)
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Great traders.... can not get funding!


tpredictor View Post
@Rory A bit too complicated for me to follow. It is suspect that a "Serif" made the initial ET post and was an employee only who is no longer with them (according to Sattam in a correspondence with me several years ago). Anyway I've signed up, I guess if I get scammed it won't be the first or last time. But right now looking forward to getting funding. Yes, I think it's pretty smart actually. There are a lot of great traders who can not get funding or at least one, I know of. While I'm not really sure about TST, I think Sattam's goal is truly to fund traders and make money off the trading division.

What would be useful though is for whoever their broker is today to come on and say they are funded with 1 million dollars or whatever, that would at least allay fears that it is a total scam. I don't believe it to be or I wouldn't have payed. I, also, think the fact that they are with Ninjatrader indicates they probably have the means to do this. I think with some of the other TST imitators, i.e they aren't with with a broker like Ninja or charge high fees for traniing then it might be more likely to be a scam. But, this seems straight up. Of course, I will report my experiences: good or bad here.

Quoting: "....There are a lot of great traders who can not get funding or at least one, I know of...."

A great trader can be defined as one who is consistently profitable over a period of time, like our BigMike
for example and also many other great traders around the forum.

Now if a trader is consistently profitable, why does he or she need any subsistence from anyone,
be it Campbell Soup, Trump Tower, TST or others or even his/her own spousal
handout?

Ok, supposed there is really one or two great consistently profitable traders out there, or
as you mentioned that there is at least one that you know of, who couldn't get funding.

The nagging thought is, if a trader is consistently profitable, it would be practically insane
having to enjoy a proprietary entity, legit or not. My humble apology if I overly encroach
someone's eminency here. Just thinking out loud without malice, K?

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  #155 (permalink)
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tpredictor View Post
@Rory A bit too complicated for me to follow. It is suspect that a "Serif" made the initial ET post and was an employee only who is no longer with them (according to Sattam in a correspondence with me several years ago). Anyway I've signed up, I guess if I get scammed it won't be the first or last time. But right now looking forward to getting funding. Yes, I think it's pretty smart actually. There are a lot of great traders who can not get funding or at least one, I know of. While I'm not really sure about TST, I think Sattam's goal is truly to fund traders and make money off the trading division.

What would be useful though is for whoever their broker is today to come on and say they are funded with 1 million dollars or whatever, that would at least allay fears that it is a total scam. I don't believe it to be or I wouldn't have payed. I, also, think the fact that they are with Ninjatrader indicates they probably have the means to do this. I think with some of the others, if they aren't with a broker like Ninja then it might be more likely to be a scam.

Well.. A "serif"? Sharif perhaps?

Sattam (Al Sabah) probably means "Sharif" for "serif" which in Sunni is a descendant of one of the Prophet's grandsons. So basically Sattam replied, oh that was written by a descendant of Hasan ibn Ali, meaning he himself in a different way. Sunni and Shia traditions vary a bit as does royal lineage stuff.

I could be wrong, I could be very wrong, but having dealt with Middle East guys in business I believe I remember this one well. They officially hate lying, the high-born especially should never court a liar's reputation so they "spin" things a bit?

Now I'd accept having dealt with the Middle East enough that though tricks and BS and chaos are thick and heavy, actual intentional stealing? No, I'd be surprised. However you should read your contract, really carefully.

It may be a bumpy and unprofessional ride but until he folds (and still offshore?) it is probably a way forward. I'd say just be wary in your financial planning as weird stuff is much more likely to happen than with TST.

Edit: (just saying for no good reason) maybe he actually meant it was a "serif" in English being a small decorative line added as embellishment. But it is still just a fancy way of saying he still wrote the ET stuff himself. I am very confident he did.

Edit2: "I, also, think the fact that they are with Ninjatrader" going in with Ninja.. we all love Ninja but its well known that NT's vendor relationships called "Ecosystem" are also called "the Swamp". Unless things have changed, they check basically nothing? It is just to get back-links for SEO & marketing, no vetting.


vont View Post
The nagging thought is, if a trader is consistently profitable, it would be practically insane
having to enjoy a proprietary entity, legit or not. My humble apology if I overly encroach
someone's eminency here. Just thinking out loud without malice, K?

The only eminency around here is Sattam (royal family? ) but I can think of many young Colombians who could trade successfully (brain, talent etc) but they have steep barriers to entry. I've talked to many business students about this helping a lecturer friend out. You don't need a secret method, I know a great Wykoff trader who just applies it well (Options trading).

The biggest barrier is time though, as was said by a wise man finding the time to study and feed yourself is tricky. Young guys spend imaginary money fast and guys jump in to a combine as this will make them "take it seriously".

I would say, just trade sim and when you have six weeks of daily profit with NO excuses (aka Mulligans), reset like a "days since accident" to the beginning of six weeks if you do, guys can then sensibly spend money on this.


Last edited by Rory; June 15th, 2017 at 03:15 PM. Reason: tpo
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  #156 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
North Carolina
 
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Quoting 
The nagging thought is, if a trader is consistently profitable, it would be practically insane
having to enjoy a proprietary entity, legit or not. My humble apology if I overly encroach
someone's eminency here. Just thinking out loud without malice, K?

Good question but tricky to answer. First, look at it in terms of a matrix of possibilities, and we'll assume that in all cases the trader has a tiny to small account.

Lose a lot or do poorly:
Sim vs TST/Oneup vs Live

Sim: No loss except monthly data feed cost and/or software charges. Fixed monthly data cost from $75-$150 est.
TST/Oneup: Fixed monthly cost from $150-$350 est.
Live: Proportional loss. With only 2k-5k account, possibly won't be able to continue to trade due to margin requirements.

Win a lot within the funding requirements
Sim: No gain. Fixed monthly data cost from $75-$150 est.
Tst/Oneup: Greater probability of being funded 2k-5k, i.e. making 2k-5k.
Live: Proportional gain.

Do good or even really good but do not meet the funding requirements
Sim: No gain. Fixed monthly data cost from $75-$150 est.
Tst/Oneup: No gain. Fixed monthly cost from $150-$350 est.
Live: Proportional gain.
-----

The big difference that changed my mind on TST was ending the time limit: before it was a gamble. With no time limit, it is for sure possible to pass. But, there's still the the second stage "funded trader prep" which is yet another hurdle. On the other hand, my understanding is at Oneup if you pass you go live and at $350/month funding they offer up to 5k account. All their metrics are slightly better too. You keep first 8k of profits and 80% thereafter taking the 80/20 payout option. The 80/20 is the only one that makes sense. The trailing max DD could also be tricky. The beginner and professional options are the two best bets.

So, let's look at a scenario, a trader trades a 5k account and doubles it. They make 5k. A trader trades a Oneup and doubles it. They get funded 5k. So far pretty similar but if a trader let's say can hit the funding goal only some percentage of months, say 70% but has a risk of ruin of blowing out the other 30% then if they self-fund they could be blown out on the first month due to bad luck. But, at Oneup you get to reset. Now given you get first 8k in profits, I don't see much reason not to do it. I could be wrong as a greenhorn but it looks like Oneup offers a good bet.

Who's it not for: traders who are well-capitalized (trade own account) really good traders who could make money trading their own accounts but can't pass (trade own account) traders who don't have any experience (trade simulator). It seems best for traders who feel like they can pass but are not fully confident but don't want to take the opportunity cost of trading in a simulator or the market risk of trading in the live. Other considerations for favoring Oneup, you get to trade up to 15 contracts which means you can shoot for smaller and more consistent gains and scale up much better then most retail accounts would allow. Also, if there is an advantage of not having one's own money on the line, for discretionary traders, then it makes sense to take advantage of that opportunity.

Other options worth considering for the small trader: commission free broker like Tradovate. Signal services but you need a high profit factor to overcome the broker costs which basically translates a need to hold trades longer which translates to more risk. Trying to build a track record with small account: not really valued in my experience.


Last edited by tpredictor; June 15th, 2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  #157 (permalink)
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What is your mindset on good luck, good fortune in trading per se?


tpredictor View Post
Good question but tricky to answer. First, look at it in terms of a matrix of possibilities, and we'll assume that in all cases the trader has a tiny to small account.

....then if they self-fund they could be blown out on the first month due to bad luck....

Thx for your good and long explanation per vendor view point. There are many good points
for not so confident, not so self-assured traders wannabe to ponder, and perhaps join.

But do you really think nowadays many live-on-the money traders would still conveniently
assign their trading losses to bad luck, as you eluded to? Not meant to start an argument, K?

Just curious about some big city live traders' mindsets on luck, good-fortune, praying for
wealth and perhaps daily ancestry worship before committing their very first live trade?
Trivials, real trivials.

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  #158 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
North Carolina
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 215 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 47 given, 205 received

@vont Right, I don't think it is bad luck but normal variance and also the time to adapt. You can look at it from a systems point of view and mathematically, a system that returns 100% with maximum drawdown of 50% over 10 years will surely have many periods, perhaps even years, where you could have traded it for bigger returns at greater leverage. For the discretionary trader which is probably more applicable, just imagine a discretionary trader who can double a 5k account say in 1 to 2 months, some probability of the time, say it's 65%. The other 35% they are adapting to the market, refining methods, etc and will be in a drawdown. If said trader has a bigger account, say 25k or 30k, or if they could reload the 5k easily then sure they should be able to build their own account. On the other hand, if said trader needs to save for a year or two to save the 5k then they are not at all assured to reach success, whereas if they can meet the TST/Oneup goals then they have a very high probability of success. Also, I am not sure whether or not psychology plays a role when trading one's own money, but sure it might, and if it does negatively impact performance then it makes sense to load the odds in your favor or stack the deck in anyway possible.

The key to be able to pass these things is to get your win ratio way up and keep losses as tiny as possible. And, that's the same key to trying to achieve to trade a tiny account. It goes without saying the goal is to get the account up the proper level on a good run and keep the risk down so you can keep trading. The other way, of course, is to take a higher tail risk probability but then you know that a couple losses will end your account. If you keep the risk down, you run the risk of having a string of serially correlated losses but if you use the big stop method, you run the tail risk. I guess there's no free lunch in the markets.



vont View Post
Thx for your good and long explanation per vendor view point. There are many good points
for not so confident, not so self-assured traders wannabe to ponder, and perhaps join.

But do you really think nowadays many live-on-the money traders would still conveniently
assign their trading losses to bad luck, as you eluded to? Not meant to start an argument, K?

Just curious about some big city live traders' mindsets on luck, good-fortune, praying for
wealth and perhaps daily ancestry worship before committing their very first live trade?
Trivials, real trivials.



Last edited by tpredictor; June 16th, 2017 at 01:26 AM.
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  #159 (permalink)
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vont View Post
Thx for your good and long explanation per vendor view point. There are many good points
for not so confident, not so self-assured traders wannabe to ponder, and perhaps join.

But do you really think nowadays many live-on-the money traders would still conveniently
assign their trading losses to bad luck, as you eluded to? Not meant to start an argument, K?

Just curious about some big city live traders' mindsets on luck, good-fortune, praying for
wealth and perhaps daily ancestry worship before committing their very first live trade?
Trivials, real trivials.


Very good question one becomes not trader like that very can of people survives in the trading market and arrives really takes advantage if there is a psychological work and a good strategy and a good money management possible to win and be profitable and unfortunately not the case for most trading trade also I think that know null to pay to start trading already there is not a lot of quality trader that are Pretty profitable There's a lot of paradox in getting trades and a lot of business

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  #160 (permalink)
 Vendor: www.orderflowdashpro.com 
North Carolina
 
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Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 215 since Nov 2011
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One thing I noticed today and not happy about is that my p&l in Rithmic didn't match the end of day cloud platform. I only used the Rithmic interface for checking my P&L but it looks like they didn't include the fees. With Topstep, the Rithmic shown P&L matches the fees. Oneup also bases the daily loss off the net p&L, makes sense, so they should show the net p&L in Rithmic. There might be something I'm missing or a way to do that manually. So far, other then that, no real issues. I've sent an email to support.

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