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OneUp Trader / MES Capital / FuturesProfile (the owner lies about his identity)
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OneUp Trader / MES Capital / FuturesProfile (the owner lies about his identity)

  #101 (permalink)
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rintin2x View Post
[MENTION=77725]
Another part i want to mention is the funded guys sooner or later will leave them because they dont like paying what they earned, just think about it. 20% is a lot. It's just hard not thinking about leaving once you become profitable.

The only risk for TST (additionally to a little overhead in backend) is max drawdown and when you have profits what exceeds that value (for example in $30k plan the max drawdown is $1.5k) they will go riskless BUT you continue to pay them 20% from all of your profits

It is no-brainer why succesfull traders will leave soon...

It takes courage to be a Pig
Go With The Flow !

Last edited by Scalpguy; April 15th, 2017 at 06:46 AM.
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  #102 (permalink)
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@Scalpguy good point. Not going off too far from the subject, how many times we read so many people (members here) failed FTP. Here's my reasoning for not going thru FTP: I believe the company make enough money already from combine trader, and they can make the risk more tight (drawdown). You can say they want to make sure to weed out not so good trader, but how many times you actually see combine takers passing the 1st stage anyway? It's really really big confidence killer!

Oneup trader for sure giving a new hope, mentioned before that MES giving it all for free, so not surprise that they can offer something new like this, their main purpose definetly is trying to steal new tst customers, not neccessarily the already funded ones.

I'm really looking forward to read other people experience when they make this program running...very exciting what the other competitors going to do, or can 1up trader make it work? Remember before people cant tell why they are denied the funding after passing the objective, but now it's black or white...interesting to see how the whole thing develops.

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  #103 (permalink)
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As someone who has been working on trading within combine limits for a while to give it a shot, I found oneup's proposition to obviously be more attractive than TST. However, the sketchy vibes that MES have given off in the past (the thread title!), and the fact that they had a big "Coming soon" banner counting down to 28th Feb, that turned into "Coming in March", then followed by the combine plans with the "Get notified" sticker we see now, give me the impression that the guys behind this are not running within their own planned schedules. Considering that we only have the site contents to look to for any due diligence (i don't see any of the people behind one-up being active on any forums lately) i found the content to be pretty much a copy-paste work from TST.

Signs don't look too good for me.

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  #104 (permalink)
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I was just curious to know what this oneuptrader.com really is (company information etc.) and got the following answer:


Quoting 
we apologize for not launching on our set date. We’ve been working through major upgrades to deliver a seamless user experience, and unfortunately, it has impacted the original expected launch date. As you are aware, OneUp Trader has partnered with MES Capital and all future evaluations will be handled by us at Launch, MES Capital will no longer offer evaluations.


We understand that you have many questions and all they will all be answered as we get closer to launch. Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. We hope you have a great day!

Very Truly Yours,

OneUp Trader Team

So if you like MES then you should like this too

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Go With The Flow !
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  #105 (permalink)
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ticktrooper View Post
Signs don't look too good for me.


Indeed not.

These purported "TST copycats" start up three or four times a year, often (like this one) copying TST's structure identically or almost identically, and often (like this one) copying many whole paragraphs or even whole pages from TST's website, word for word. (Except without the lists of hundreds of successfully funded traders, of course.)

I've never yet heard of one going on to become established and paying out earnings to a single trader.

You have to feel sorry for TST, really: it's because they've thought up and so professionally executed this business model for so long that their success in getting traders funded and earning has now gradually spawned a never-ending succession of scammy imitators, all of which - so far - sink without trace (but often having swallowed a lot of "trial fees" in the process). And because of that, the whole "industry" they more or less started themselves, in their format anyway, is acquiring something of a scammy reputation, and some of the misinformation and ill-informed prejudice about TST itself, arising indirectly from that reality, is pretty disappointing.

Maybe this one will prove to be the first ever exception, but so far the signs certainly look absolutely awful.

If I ran TST, I really don't know whether I'd be ignoring them completely, watching them with bemusement, or serving DMCA copyright notices against their hosting companies for all the duplicate sites.

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  #106 (permalink)
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The OneUpTrader terms look significantly better than anything TST has offered. Although, not all of the plans make equal sense. If they actually deliver and the terms are similar or better to what they've recently had up on their website then I will most definitely take the try out. I am on the list and ready to do the trial/try out as soon as they offer it. I am fine with sharing my results here once they go live.

As an aside, I doubt the TST model is sustainable because the terms are really bad. The result is most-likely that the good traders won't have an incentive to stay with them (1) they leave or never join and (2) competitors who want to make money off combines can easily come in and offer better terms (undercutting). I think the only reason they haven't had decent competition is that you need a minimum non-trivial amount of capital to offer such a model or else it wouldn't have lasted even this long.

If a realistic funding option for small traders is offered via OneUp then that will eventually impact the brokers, I might add as well. If OneUp is able to realistically fund futures traders, eventually futures brokers will have to start to innovate in similar ways to compete. So, it bodes well if OneUp is able to make it work. The big firms that support larger traders will be fine but the smaller day trading focused brokers will have significant competition.


Last edited by tpredictor; May 1st, 2017 at 06:21 PM.
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  #107 (permalink)
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OneUp Trader in Cyprus

It seems that "oneup trader" is establish on cyprus, and this cold be not so good in term of regulamentation law.
ONEUP TRADER Trademark of OneUp Trader Ltd. Serial Number: 87091783 :: Trademarkia Trademarks

Take your Pips, go out and Live.
Luke.
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  #108 (permalink)
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tpredictor View Post
As an aside, I doubt the TST model is sustainable because the terms are really bad.
.......I think the only reason they haven't had decent competition is that you need a minimum non-trivial amount of capital to offer such a model or else it wouldn't have lasted even this long.

They have been around for at least five years so they can't be doing that badly. MES didn't appear to last much more than a year. But then TST charge people to take their tests/Combines which provides capital to support the business. Unlike MES where it was all free.

Not directed at you, and also digressing, but I happen to be rereading Atlas Shrugged.
TST the nasty capitalist model that charges people to take a test with clear rules, probably partly because the test has costs involved with it, but also because they know that the vast majprity of people who take the test will not go further and generate trading profits. But the incentive is that the successful are allowed to keep 80% of their profits.
Or the nice Socialist model which seemed to have nondefined rules but was free for all and covered the expenses involved itself, but then supposedly took 50% of the profits of the few that were able.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs".
Anybody trying the second model would certainly require good capital to run it.

(Still not directed at you). the TST AMA and review threads are full of people complaining that TST charges and even people complaining it will be making a profit, that Combine costs are too expensive, it isn't fair that: people have to pay those fees, they have loss limits, they have limits on the number of contracts they are allowed to trade, having to pay 20% of your profits is too much (but somehow 50% is okay if it isn't TST), etc etc.
I find it fascinating how polarising the TST/competitors debates are. I am all for competition and would welcome an alternative offering to TST, but as yet I haven't seen anything being offered that is in anyway comparable.


Last edited by matthew28; May 2nd, 2017 at 11:09 AM.
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  #109 (permalink)
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@mathew28

My problem with TST has always been all the rules or extra hurdles/etc. It has always felt more adversarial to me. Something worth pointing out is that with any of these types of operations, there is a presumption of good faith. If I funded traders, I would always reserve an element of discretion because first you can't realistically cover everything and unless you restrict sign ups then you can't control how many people will pass. But, then it goes back to trust and intention. The advantage that I see with OneUp is that you pass and you go live.

With traditional prop firms, the advantages have been a combination of vertical advantages and scaling too nearly unlimited use of firm capital. The % split is not the most important. What's important is your daily loss limit and buying power (# contracts)...

Trivial example.. say you're okay with risking $500 per day. A firm comes to you and says we'll give you a 50% split and $2,000 per day risk capital. That means you get to keep the profits off $1,000 per day of that risk. So you make 2x as much with zero risk. Even if they said we'll give you $1,000 per day and 50% split, you still make just as much as you would trading own account except you have zero risk.


Last edited by tpredictor; May 2nd, 2017 at 01:17 PM.
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  #110 (permalink)
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matthew28 View Post
They have been around for at least five years so they can't be doing that badly. MES didn't appear to last much more than a year. But then TST charge people to take their tests/Combines which provides capital to support the business. Unlike MES where it was all free.

Not directed at you, and also digressing, but I happen to be rereading Atlas Shrugged.
TST the nasty capitalist model that charges people to take a test with clear rules, probably partly because the test has costs involved with it, but also because they know that the vast majprity of people who take the test will not go further and generate trading profits. But the incentive is that the successful are allowed to keep 80% of their profits.
Or the nice Socialist model which seemed to have nondefined rules but was free for all and covered the expenses involved itself, but then supposedly took 50% of the profits of the few that were able.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs".
Anybody trying the second model would certainly require good capital to run it.

(Still not directed at you). the TST AMA and review threads are full of people complaining that TST charges and even people complaining it will be making a profit, that Combine costs are too expensive, it isn't fair that: people have to pay those fees, they have loss limits, they have limits on the number of contracts they are allowed to trade, having to pay 20% of your profits is too much (but somehow 50% is okay if it isn't TST), etc etc.
I find it fascinating how polarising the TST/competitors debates are. I am all for competition and would welcome an alternative offering to TST, but as yet I haven't seen anything being offered that is in anyway comparable.

I agree with you,specially with your last sentence ,I have read many complaints about TST but NEVER heard anybody complaining they passed the combine,traded Live,made money and didn't get paid

The rules at TST may seem difficult to understand and may require several readings to do so,but once you do understand them,they are crystal clear,and shelling $ to participate in a combine surely feels worse than getting it for free,but their business model is what it is...They get paid from the nonperformers and pay the performers,getting a cut from the whole process.

I believe they may make more money from the combines than from the Live traders,but it may be their model...So what?99% of traders lose,so this is where TST may capitalize(or I may be wrong)...As long as they provide a fair option for the other 1% and pay on time,it is just a matter of RR...How much do you pay for a combine,how many combines do you need to take to pass,and how many contracts you can trade once you pass

Don't believe that you are getting a Live 150k account for 375$

If you pass the 150k you get to start with 3 contracts(if my memory doesn't fail me)..So,let's say they are financing you with 3k $in CL(less in ES) plus the 4.5k$ of max DD,pls some slippage on a fast market,etc,etc...I would say their real initial risk is around 10k$,and,of course,once you make money they try to reduce it to a point where they have zero risk,but still have 20% of your profits,similar model as most VC firms employ

Now,and I do not want to offend anybody...How many "375$" you need to cover a 10k risk?OK...Let's approximate it to 27...So,as long as they get a 1/27 of winning vs failing traders,as long as 96.3% or more traders fail the combines,TST cover their risk with "traders money",not their own...

And,to be fair,TST does not seem to trick the trader,nor go against him,etc-I feel that they do not need it,99% of aspiring traders shoot themselves in the foot and lose with no external help-and TST supports the successful traders,obviously,there is more business to be done there,specially once they have covered their risk....Which is good for everybody involved

So,TST may not be the best possible desirable option,but it looks as a good one to me.If you do not have enough risk capital to trade and you are confident in your numbers,of course

It would be extremely interesting if some serious competition established themselves and provided different choices of funding/risk to aspiring prop traders,besides the actual ones...But to do so they will have to be creative and devise a different business model,just copying and pasting is not enough...And they will have to establish believability in regards to paying the traders

Additionally,it would be interesting to see a list of "Funded traders at TST" and be able to analyze for how long they survived,if they made money or not and how much and for how long,on average,of course ,how many left TST with profits either to start their own account or other ventures,how many didn't,etc,etc...Of course,this is sensible information not to be given for free to potential competitors,and,I suspect,not something to be proud of...But again,in case these numbers didn't look good,it won't be TST fault,the market is extremely tough with aspiring traders...So,some sort of "Guidance" while not necessary,would be interesting

S

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