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NinjaTrader' s Ecosystem vetting vendors


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NinjaTrader' s Ecosystem vetting vendors

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  #1 (permalink)
 sharmas 
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Ninja Trader
WE welcome you and Ray to come out and explain how your selection criteria works when you choose a Ecosystem Vendor

NT you owe alot to retail traders who are your bread and butter.

Why you guys are letting so many cowboys to come and share their traffic lights and then in simple words rip them off.

When NT promotes a vendor, their is certainly an obligation that a thorough review with back testing is done.

Other platforms do not have an ecosystems that promotes everyone and everything, so the quality
of customers it bring could be argued would be much higher overall.

I would like to invite views who people consider legit or not

This may give a chance and feed as far as what vendors truly helped and which did not and which are just plain rip-off salesman. The Oil Money with Scott Morris is certainly is top of the list who sits in a hotel lobby and tells everyone his made up sad stories and sells potential traders a system that in his own words is the best in the planet...but wait for it only as good as 60% win rate again in his word.

And NT has and is promoting this vendor.

We have come across so many of them who come out and say their system is the best in the world and Ninja Trader promotes them and lets them conduct Webinars to assist them to get customers and in return NT gets more customer.

NT and Ray, you have an obligation to look after your customers and not just your pockets as without us retail customers, where will your business be today.

Sharmas

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  #3 (permalink)
 sharmas 
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Ninja Trader needs to take serious action and only promote Vendors that pass the highest criteria.

Come on Ray....lets see what have you got to say on this. Who do you value more....little traders who come to this forum and buy your platform...or scam artist

Here is The Oil Money.... Scott Morris...
https://theoilmoney.com/june-austin-live-trading-academy/?utm_campaign=&utm_content=Video+from+Live+Event+in+Austin&utm_medium=email&utm_source=getresponse

This course will cost you 2.7k and all other expenses.... and will give you nothing...Its just a HL and LH pivot signal.


Who else knows of other scam artist who prey on poor potential traders to fill their pockets.

Sharmas

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 Forexoil 
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I think the ecosystem is not intented to be a recommendation to buy. It is more like the apple app store where apple only check to see that it is not a virus infected app, or an obvious scam.
Buyer beware in any field, but especially in the shady world of live rooms and indicator salesmen.

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 sharmas 
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This is what NT promotes on its Web

A thriving Ecosystem Explore the many innovative applications that extend and enhance NinjaTrader’s functionality to enrich your trading!

Learn how professional traders and educators utilize Ninja Trader’s powerful analysis tools and flexible functionality to maximize their trading potential.

And then they bring on these Vendors in Webinars and that to me is a straight endorsement that they have been tested and has met NT criteria to be a partner.

Does Apple have that...do they hold webinairs to get partners in to promote a mutual product set to sell more Apple products...dont think so unless its not offered in this country.

Sharmas

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 xiaosi 
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I'm not sure i need to spell out the obvious here but Ninjatrader is pretty much a retail trading platform. The ecosystem is pretty much there for the vendors. There are some great vendors that provide a real alternative to the professional trading platforms with their useful add ons. There are others however that are really nothing more than beginner traps that rake in subscription fees month on month.

Much like any shopping experience its buyer beware. I'm not sure NT has any social responsibility to ensure the vendors are offering legitimate systems and tools, there is so much subjectivity in that.

I agree though there are some dodgy vendors.

XS

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 BeachTrader 
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xiaosi View Post
I'm not sure i need to spell out the obvious here but Ninjatrader is pretty much a retail trading platform. The ecosystem is pretty much there for the vendors. There are some great vendors that provide a real alternative to the professional trading platforms with their useful add ons. There are others however that are really nothing more than beginner traps that rake in subscription fees month on month.

Much like any shopping experience its buyer beware. I'm not sure NT has any social responsibility to ensure the vendors are offering legitimate systems and tools, there is so much subjectivity in that.

I agree though there are some dodgy vendors.

XS

Exactly. Buyer Beware! Do your own research. I don't think Ninja (a retail trading platform) should do it for me. What works for you may not work for me and vice-versa.

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 phantomtrader 
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I think you effectively sign their disclaimer when you click on the link:




I think having a library of vendors is a good thing - but you're ultimately reponsible for which ones you sign on to - I think it makes sense.

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  #9 (permalink)
 sharmas 
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phantomtrader View Post
I think you effectively sign their disclaimer when you click on the link:




I think having a library of vendors is a good thing - but you're ultimately reponsible for which ones you sign on to - I think it makes sense.



"NinjaTrader' s Ecosystem vetting vendors"
Ninja Trader
WE welcome you and Ray to come out and explain how your selection criteria works when you choose a Ecosystem Vendor

NT you owe alot to retail traders who are your bread and butter.

Why you guys are letting so many cowboys to come and share their traffic lights and then in simple words rip them off.

When NT promotes a vendor, their is certainly an obligation that a thorough review with back testing is done


We all can hide behind disclaimers but there is certain obligations that a basic organisation even follows

Sharmas

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  #10 (permalink)
 sharmas 
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ninjatrader
Would be nice to get a response

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  #11 (permalink)
 sharmas 
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@NinjaTrader
Would be nice to get a response

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 BeachTrader 
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sharmas View Post
@NinjaTrader
Would be nice to get a response

Sharmas, with all due respect I don't feel Ninja Trader owes you a response to this thread. Post #8 by phantomtrader shows Ninja Trader is very clear on their policy. If you really want further explanation, maybe you should email them directly?

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 sharmas 
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Sharmas, with all due respect I don't feel Ninja Trader owes you a response to this thread. Post #8 by phantomtrader shows Ninja Trader is very clear on their policy. If you really want further explanation, maybe you should email them directly?

That will be easy way out
futures.io (formerly BMT) forum is a fantastic place for NT to answer the simple question

What is their selection criteria and are they just like another Vendor only worried and concerned about filling their own pockets.
@NinjaTrader do you support any vendor that moves and breathes therefore quality is a foreign product to your business ethics



@NinjaTrader
WE welcome you and Ray to come out and explain how your selection criteria works when you choose a Ecosystem Vendor

NT you owe alot to retail traders who are your bread and butter.

Why you guys are letting so many cowboys to come and share their traffic lights and then in simple words allow your very own customers to be ripped off.

When NT promotes a vendor, their is certainly an obligation that a thorough review with back testing is done.

Other platforms do not have an ecosystems that promotes everyone and everything, so the quality
of customers it bring could be argued would be much higher overall

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 Big Mike 
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I'm all for stronger criteria for vendors, since most of them are snake oil in my opinion and prey on the average uneducated consumer.

But you need to stop baiting NT. If Ray wants to respond, he will. If you don't like what NT offers, don't use them. If you are unhappy about the vendor community, take action yourself.

Speaking to the last point, for years I've tried to get an initiative off the ground to hold vendors responsible. It's not as easy as you think in the litigious world we live in. In some cases, stupid people simply get what they deserve and you can't protect them from their own stupidity.

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 sharmas 
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And I totally agree and this is an excellent example of what BIg Mike does for us and why this is the best forum

If you look back Big Mike always protects us from these snake oil vendors and then we get annoyed at him now and then

Thank you Mike

Sometimes to get an ethical business to respond so that everyone can see is far more important than get an individual to bite at my question

Ninja Trader is the only platform that I am aware of that promotes Vendors and therefore then Ray has at least an obligation to respond here and show bit of leadership as this is a topical issue faced by many uneducated retail traders

Sharmas

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 phantomtrader 
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sharmas View Post
And I totally agree and this is an excellent example of what BIg Mike does for us and why this is the best forum

If you look back Big Mike always protects us from these snake oil vendors and then we get annoyed at him now and then

Thank you Mike

Sometimes to get an ethical business to respond so that everyone can see is far more important than get an individual to bite at my question

Ninja Trader is the only platform that I am aware of that promotes Vendors and therefore then Ray has at least an obligation to respond here and show bit of leadership as this is a topical issue faced by many uneducated retail traders

Sharmas

TradeStation also offers products from independent developers. And they have a similar disclaimer as NinjaTrader. MetaTrader offers hundreds of products for FX traders with a disclaimer.

Some vendor products may not be to your liking, but that doesn't mean the developer is necessarily a "snake oil salesman". If, however, you know of a particular vendor who is scamming traders, you can always contact Ninja and provide evidence.


As far as "uneducated" traders are concerned, it's not up to a platform developer to educate a trader in anything other than their own platform. Ninja and TradeStation are not educational institutions. It's up to the trader to make independent decisions based on thorough research and self education.




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 BeachTrader 
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sharmas View Post
And I totally agree and this is an excellent example of what BIg Mike does for us and why this is the best forum

If you look back Big Mike always protects us from these snake oil vendors and then we get annoyed at him now and then

Thank you Mike

Sometimes to get an ethical business to respond so that everyone can see is far more important than get an individual to bite at my question

Ninja Trader is the only platform that I am aware of that promotes Vendors and therefore then Ray has at least an obligation to respond here and show bit of leadership as this is a topical issue faced by many uneducated retail traders

Sharmas

Funny how you won't let this go Sharmas....

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 sharmas 
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BeachTrader View Post
Funny how you won't let this go Sharmas....

Thank you BeachTrader
The question is directed to @NinjaTrader and is it a crime to ask a genuine and ethical question to understand the selection criteria

A little guy is asking a question and yes NT is a larger than me

And with respect the question wasn't directed to you but it's okay this planet needs people who have one single purpose to interfere in others business

Have a blessed day

Sharmas

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 nightshade 
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sharmas View Post
ninjatrader
Would be nice to get a response

i think the problem could be easily solved by eliminating the need for vendors
by having a area on bmt with a lot of information on coding things in NT and other platforms.
i think majority of traders seek vendors because they don't know how to code what they want themselves.
like me for example, all i could do in ninja script was change the momentum indie to paint line when above and below
certain level. But what i would really would like is a CD of the lmt orders to see change in the slope of the book. And that probably requires re coding the gom package which i have no idea how to do. so if futures.io (formerly BMT) would push education on coding then traders can make what ever idea that pops in their heads. As well as truly understanding how every indicator works (calc). this would make vendors somewhat obsolete. at least the garbage ones.

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sharmas View Post
Thank you BeachTrader
The question is directed to @NinjaTrader and is it a crime to ask a genuine and ethical question to understand the selection criteria

A little guy is asking a question and yes NT is a larger than me

And with respect the question wasn't directed to you but it's okay this planet needs people who have one single purpose to interfere in others business

Have a blessed day

Sharmas

Hello Sharmas,

I have been out of the country on vacation and in fact still am and have just seen your multiple posts so I appreciate your patience on my reply. You specifically ask, “what is NinjaTrader’s selection criteria for Ecosystem partners”. First, it is important to understand that anyone can build and market anything they want for NinjaTrader without our consent, permission or authorization since NinjaTrader is an open platform. We do have a formal vetting process for new ecosystem partners requests which I discuss in more detail below.

Specific to ecosystem members where we do provide visibility through the ecosystem website or webinar programs, these companies have been carefully vetted for any possible illegal activity (past or present), consistent or frequent customer complaints and regulator violations including the NFA and CFTC (perhaps you consider this selection criteria). In many cases new ecosystem partner requests are refused for these reasons although this is not publicly visible.

As far as “proving” their add-ons, systems or education are effective (profitable), that is the responsibility of the trader to determine since it is subjective in many cases. Our ecosystem events are not “vendor endorsements” they are risk free opportunities for traders to see and hear from ecosystem vendors such that they can make their own determination on possible value to them. We do not limit these vendors since you never know who may really click with traders nor do we penalize someone just because they are new to providing their services. Somehow you feel we are taking advantage of traders by taking this open approach which I disagree with since we are actually providing them opportunities to determine who may work for them which otherwise might not be available. We believe in a free and open market where traders can make these decisions for themselves so we facilitate these opportunities for them. We also do not have a compensated marketplace to reap financial gain from the ecosystem companies which would be the only reason your concerns with the ecosystem vendors would potentially make sense.

We also have an ecosystem disclaimer that covers some of what I have included here and others have mentioned in previous posts however with your multiple requests I wanted to expand on some of it for you. I have now directly replied to you on it and I will not enter into a debate about it so I hope our position is clear since I will not be responding again to this thread.

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 sharmas 
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Thank you Ray

Very interesting

I am a life time member and i have every right to question your selection criteria but its only done at company profile level and hence why we end up with so many cowboys and snake oil salesman on Ecosystem and therefore Ninja brings them on board in their webinars to show case their products and may be Ninja Trader will end up with few more members via it.


Thank you and enjoy your holiday and safe trip back home.


Sharmas

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 sasnak 
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I agree. The NT ecosystem has become a polluted jungle of charlatans and rip-off artists. In the latter case, it appears that many of them get their ideas and indicators from this forum and try to sell them on NT as their own original ideas! VWAP based products for example.

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 sharmas 
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Thanks

I totally agree and having them come to NT Webiniars is and can be seen as a rubber stamp but I am just a little guy and Ninja Trader is a giant

And Ray understands my sentiment but he has his turf to protect

Sooner or later with enough noise NT will need to clean up their ecosystem and have slightly better vetting system in place

Sharmas


sasnak View Post
I agree. The NT ecosystem has become a polluted jungle of charlatans and rip-off artists. In the latter case, it appears that many of them get their ideas and indicators from this forum and try to sell them on NT as their own original ideas! VWAP based products for example.


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 UmBillyCord 
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NT has let their vendor “ecosystem” get out of hand. Part of this can be traced back to their policy of preferential licensing to vendors. Right now if you can code some bullshit indicator and slap up a WordPress site you are a vendor.

In my opinion, NT has also mismanaged and whored out their email list to the point of it being worthless to legitimate partners. People will only watch so many crappy webinars with vendors that haven’t the slightest clue before they determine it is worthless.

As a businessman, I have never understood the idea of a “lifetime” license from a business perspective. To maintain reasonable cash flow you must charge an update or yearly fee of some sort to maintain and fund your development efforts. Their subscription model provides part of this needed cash flow, but I am sure it is not enough.

NinjaTrader didn’t go out and buy an IB because they are your friend. My guess is that they needed the cash flow the brokerage would provide to bring their latest version to market.

They also wanted to “close” their ecosystem so they can get more of your wallet. The new policy of not allowing connections to new licensee’s that are not using NT Brokerage is proof of that.

An earlier poster was of the opinion that the futures.io (formerly BMT) community could replace vendors by developing and coding their own indicators. That would be extremely funny if it wasn’t so misguided. From what I read here when I stop in, 90% don’t really have a clue how the market even operates, let alone the knowledge needed to create a system to trade real money and make real profits.

I would venture an educated guess that 80% or better of the posters here are SIM market assassins trading overly complicated “systems” that don’t provide a true edge. Even a blind mouse finds some cheese every once in a while.

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 Big Mike 
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The average lifetime of a trader that purchases NT is around 4-6 months in the futures marketplace, I would venture...

The free users (Sim) are the real drain on NT from a support perspective, not the lifetime customers.

Naturally there are outliers and exceptions. If the lifetime model wasn't proven, they wouldn't continue it.

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 UmBillyCord 
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Big Mike View Post
The average lifetime of a trader that purchases NT is around 4-6 months in the futures marketplace, I would venture...

Ok, I forgot the “selling the dream” model.

Using your numbers, they are dangling a reduced commission rate as bait to sell the lifetime license to people that will blow out their account and give up in a few short months. Since the license is non-transferrable it’s a win-win for them.

I am not aware of any other broker that is using this method. You either get a free, or greatly reduced, lease for using a platform with only their brokerage or your buy your platform outright and use any combination of brokers you wish to use.


Big Mike View Post
The free users (Sim) are the real drain on NT from a support perspective, not the lifetime customers.

They have created this environment. They promote vendors who know nothing about trading,
so what kind of a customer is that going to attract and create? If you are wrong fundamentals, you trade for a day and then stare at the screen for 21 days calling the ninja support 24/7.

I am sure the model of 1K works, but they are a brokerage now and should act like a brokerage. Show me ONE brokerage that charges a life time license for their software, sadly this also commits people mentally even if a better solution comes along.

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 SpyderTrader 
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UmBillyCord View Post
I would venture an educated guess that 80% or better of the posters here are SIM market assassins trading overly complicated “systems” that don’t provide a true edge.

Nailed it.

Around 5% move the market. 10% try to follow the 5%. The rest provide liquidity.
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 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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As of today @NinjaTrader has a new partner
KSqueeze Trading System
And for all members this is no one but Scott Morris from the Oil Money and looks like he will go to any length to make money off people and his system is nothing but few indicators and I am going to call it out here that the Squeeze indicator would have been taken from futures.io (formerly BMT)

Come on Ninja Trader have bit of sense and responsibility left towards the due diligence and social responsibility

How is your vertting system and process works is very questionable

Sharmas

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 futurestrader1 
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haha, yeah Sharmas! Good call.....when i saw that I immediately though it was EXACTLY like the Pivot Scalper and wondered if the programmer or somebody inside made another site. But didn't think that Scott himself would do so.

Ps. I don't have any of his products and never will...he must really need the sales, lol!

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 Big Mike 
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sharmas View Post
As of today NinjaTrader has a new partner
KSqueeze Trading System
And for all members this is no one but Scott Morris from the Oil Money and looks like he will go to any length to make money off people and his system is nothing but few indicators and I am going to call it out here that the Squeeze indicator would have been taken from futures.io (formerly BMT)

Come on Ninja Trader have bit of sense and responsibility left towards the due diligence and social responsibility

How is your vertting system and process works is very questionable

Sharmas

Post the evidence and mention @NinjaTrader so they have a chance to respond

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 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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@NinjaTrader and Ray

Come out clean and let your members and moreso your lifetime members know what you stand for.. Money like many snakeoil salesmen we find in trading world or you being a company with some sense of responsibilities towards your customers.

How does your vetting system work..
Here is the real proof you have @Scott Morris selling his same useless product via endorsements from Ninja Trader.

TOM - Jorge - Actual Live Trade using PivotScalper, KSqueeze, T3 and ATM Strategy
Oil Money
Oil Money


Sharmas

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 MrTrader 
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Hmm..
This is interesting.
I did not know this guy Scot and TOM System..

But as I saw NT release about KSqueeze I did their trial, U$ 1,00 for 7 days and cancelled it a few days after.

I can confirm the indicators are EXACTLY the same.
That oscilator, colors, the zero line (blue dots with cyan dots), same bars (a mixed renko+heikinashi bars) and same signals.

Hope this helps.

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 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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@ Ninjatrader
and @ Ray

Front up as you owe it to your customers and not just focused on filling your pocket with revenue by bringing is scam artists as your new partners. Why do you do this and what potential benefits do you get.

Ray a lot of people are awaiting for your response and to see where you stand on this poorly run vetting system of your... @NinjaTrader your credibility is on the line here ...Show your leadership and fix your vetting system and remove the bullshit vendors that are making money because people see them as an approved Ninja trader partner..

Sharmas




MrTrader View Post
Hmm..
This is interesting.
I did not know this guy Scot and TOM System..

But as I saw NT release about KSqueeze I did their trial, U$ 1,00 for 7 days and cancelled it a few days after.

I can confirm the indicators are EXACTLY the same.
That oscilator, colors, the zero line (blue dots with cyan dots), same bars (a mixed renko+heikinashi bars) and same signals.

Hope this helps.


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 tortuga 
Auckland New Zealand
 
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As the saying goes, Sharmas: sometimes, silence speaks louder than words.

Good on you for bringing up the subject. I think the previously made point, that NT is retail focused, really did hit the nail on the head though.

I for one have never looked at any of the Ecosystem lineup. It just smacks of suckerware.

I am only interested in the platform itself. Because so many traders on this site and others use NT I had expected it to be really good. Now I'm thinking it must just be that the alternatives aren't that great.

Traders have to be sharp to survive. The industry survives on turnover. Not trade turnover... but trader

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 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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@ninja Trader
@Ray

My request is a very simple one and one that needs proper response for all of your customers.

#What is your Vendor Vetting process
#Why does Ninja Trader allow everyone that moves with a product to become a partner
#Isn't in these Vendor Webinars that you promote the use and sale of Ninja Trader platform

Yes there is a direct mutual benefit for you and the vendors.

So are you silent because you are there to protect these cowboy vendors at the expense of your own customers who pay your wages and your beautiful holidays.

Also under your leadership ...Ninja trader is struggling to release NT8... May be real focus needed to go into your own NT8 development rather than focusing on the number of partners you can gain on weekly basis.

My thoughts and support by many as it needs real courage to stand against the mighty companies.

Sharmas

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 Big Mike 
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sharmas View Post
@ninja Trader
@Ray

My request is a very simple one and one that needs proper response for all of your customers.

#What is your Vendor Vetting process
#Why does Ninja Trader allow everyone that moves with a product to become a partner
#Isn't in these Vendor Webinars that you promote the use and sale of Ninja Trader platform

Yes there is a direct mutual benefit for you and the vendors.

So are you silent because you are there to protect these cowboy vendors at the expense of your own customers who pay your wages and your beautiful holidays.

Also under your leadership ...Ninja trader is struggling to release NT8... May be real focus needed to go into your own NT8 development rather than focusing on the number of partners you can gain on weekly basis.

My thoughts and support by many as it needs real courage to stand against the mighty companies.

Sharmas

Please stop posting the same thing over and over. It's up to @NinjaTrader if they want to respond to you, but repeating yourself over and over is just annoying. If you don't like NT then take your business elsewhere, let your actions speak for you (instead of you posting the same thing over and over).

Ray did respond to you once before already on June 2nd, in case you've forgotten...


NinjaTrader View Post
Hello Sharmas,

I have been out of the country on vacation and in fact still am and have just seen your multiple posts so I appreciate your patience on my reply. You specifically ask, “what is NinjaTrader’s selection criteria for Ecosystem partners”. First, it is important to understand that anyone can build and market anything they want for NinjaTrader without our consent, permission or authorization since NinjaTrader is an open platform. We do have a formal vetting process for new ecosystem partners requests which I discuss in more detail below.

Specific to ecosystem members where we do provide visibility through the ecosystem website or webinar programs, these companies have been carefully vetted for any possible illegal activity (past or present), consistent or frequent customer complaints and regulator violations including the NFA and CFTC (perhaps you consider this selection criteria). In many cases new ecosystem partner requests are refused for these reasons although this is not publicly visible.

As far as “proving” their add-ons, systems or education are effective (profitable), that is the responsibility of the trader to determine since it is subjective in many cases. Our ecosystem events are not “vendor endorsements” they are risk free opportunities for traders to see and hear from ecosystem vendors such that they can make their own determination on possible value to them. We do not limit these vendors since you never know who may really click with traders nor do we penalize someone just because they are new to providing their services. Somehow you feel we are taking advantage of traders by taking this open approach which I disagree with since we are actually providing them opportunities to determine who may work for them which otherwise might not be available. We believe in a free and open market where traders can make these decisions for themselves so we facilitate these opportunities for them. We also do not have a compensated marketplace to reap financial gain from the ecosystem companies which would be the only reason your concerns with the ecosystem vendors would potentially make sense.

We also have an ecosystem disclaimer that covers some of what I have included here and others have mentioned in previous posts however with your multiple requests I wanted to expand on some of it for you. I have now directly replied to you on it and I will not enter into a debate about it so I hope our position is clear since I will not be responding again to this thread.

Mike

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 sharmas 
Auckland
 
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Big Mike
This is your site and we are mere visitors here... Question was asked and replied to in June.. However since then @NinjaTrader has acquired a new vendor partner Ksqueeze which has been prepackaged from iscapler/oil money to Ksqueeze...

For a normal lay person it is so very obvious and a lay man does need to question @NinjaTrader as to what their vetting process is and motive is.

Its one thing to defend forum members from Vendors and other to protect them from likes of Ninjatrader who keeps bring them up like mushrooms

I am a simple man with ethical views and we always find ourselves what values we need to stand on what we believe in and question what is so very obvious wrong.

If we are to protect then we stand for that and not to rethink our ethical views.

Maybe you will block me or suspend me but i know the truth is the truth

Sharmas

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 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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I'm not going to block or ban you. I agree there is a integrity problem in the vendor space. But you've said your peace, a few times in fact, and at this point you have your answer.

If you don't like the answer you received, I suggest you vote with your wallet.



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