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MTPredictor Software reviews


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MTPredictor Software reviews

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  #1 (permalink)
Pointman
California
 
 
Posts: 2 since Apr 2010
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Does anybody here use MTPredictor Sofware. If so, I would to get feed back on it.
More interested in its accuracy. Does the sofware really works as it promises?

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  #3 (permalink)
 TraderSU 
New York
 
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+1, anyone?

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  #4 (permalink)
 Ganymed 
Switzerland
 
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I use MTP add on for NT for over 4 years with continous success. For me the best trading software together with Flux Capacitor from Back to the Future Trading. Both companies are very serious, good support and a lot of instruction videos. I know professional traders using MTP and BTTF daily for FDAX, CL, ES and GC
Ganymed

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  #5 (permalink)
 Tallyho 
Toronto
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Infinity AT, MTP, Neo Ticker charts
Broker: InfinityAT, IB
Trading: Futures, Fx
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 28 given, 2 received

Glad to hear of your success Ganymed. I am new with MTP [looking to trade off the 3 & 5 minute charts] and found the DP trades very hard to be successful with. It seems it's so important to determine the larger degree trend [so I look at the 15 minute chart] yet there doesn't seem to be that much info about assessing that under all the different situations that the market creates day by day.

Of course they talk about going to a larger time frame and he refers to this lots on the Advanced blog, however I've found it inconclusive many many times....kind of depends on how far back you look on the larger degree chart...

I just stay away from the DP setups now. Any helpful thoughts?

thanks

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  #6 (permalink)
 aviat72 
San Francisco Bay Area
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT,TOS,IB
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Posts: 280 since Jun 2010
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Any interest in developing our own EW projection system? It is not that hard with some user input.

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  #7 (permalink)
Darshiit
India
 
 
Posts: 31 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 32 given, 22 received

I've tried for MTP Stand Alone application on trial bases long back. But as EW looks too greeky to me, I ended up with no positive results using it.

I do found such softwares as blackbox.Which looks good but practically u can not trade with it as the setups r dynamic. A trader needs static entry exits. Else nothing wrong in backtesting ur data with simple zigzag peak troughs.

And yeah , i do really doubt if any Prop traders r using it.

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  #8 (permalink)
 Tallyho 
Toronto
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Infinity AT, MTP, Neo Ticker charts
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Trading: Futures, Fx
 
Posts: 7 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 28 given, 2 received

Thx for your thought Dar

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  #9 (permalink)
 aslan 
Madison, WI
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ALT
Trading: ES
 
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Posts: 622 since Jan 2010
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I tried this last year, and the main issue I had was that the signals are constantly redrawn/vanishing (even after entering a trade). So there is no way to look at a chart and figure out what you would have done in the past (other than replaying perhaps). When I brought this up to them and asked for my cash back, the owner literally had a fit on the phone, though they did refund my money. They do have a nice way of looking at RR before entering a trade, which was one of the features that intrigued me to try it out. The other interesting item is that they look at Elliott in simplified terms, which basically means playing the big picture/high probability patterns, instead of trying to get a complete EW count.

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  #10 (permalink)
 TraderSU 
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Custom Platform
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Posts: 79 since May 2010
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aslan View Post
I tried this last year, and the main issue I had was that the signals are constantly redrawn/vanishing (even after entering a trade). So there is no way to look at a chart and figure out what you would have done in the past (other than replaying perhaps). When I brought this up to them and asked for my cash back, the owner literally had a fit on the phone, though they did refund my money. They do have a nice way of looking at RR before entering a trade, which was one of the features that intrigued me to try it out. The other interesting item is that they look at Elliott in simplified terms, which basically means playing the big picture/high probability patterns, instead of trying to get a complete EW count.

Signals keeps changing... That is not good. Anyone can do a great signal if they are allowed to go back and re-generate signals - isn't it?

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  #11 (permalink)
 jswin 
adelaide, australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader, metatrader
Trading: 6E
 
Posts: 23 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 17 given, 9 received

I bought MTP EOD and Real Time add ons for Ninja about four years ago. I don't use the software as I can't stand sitting through the pretty major drawdowns waiting for the home run. But as far as vanishing signals, that is not correct. Signals only vanish if they are invalidated prior to a trade stop-entry order being filled and losing trades are permanently marked on the chart.

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  #12 (permalink)
 sdonahue 
Camas, WA
 
Experience: Advanced
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I own both the standalone platform and the NT Add-ons, and quite frankly, MTP is really the primary tool that I use these days for all of my trading- and yes, if you put in the time and effort to really master it and leverage it for what it is, which is a professional charting and analysis platform for identifying risk-controlled, quality favorable risk/reward trade setups, then yes- it delivers above and beyond.

On top of that, they have phenomenal support and a ton of excellent free education, including a new trade room where the developer (and expert trader) Steve Griffiths provides real time analysis and education- particularly on how to do the advanced analysis that the software is designed for. Before committing to buy, I'd already spent more money than I will freely admit on indicators, systems, platforms and other garbage- so I am well aware of what's out there. If nothing else, the value they deliver for the money is second to none.

I had a good amount of experience and a strong education and background coming in, so for me, the learning curve was probably shorter than for some. I bought it specifically for the more advanced analysis, so I was never really evaluating whether I could trade a purely mechanical approach with the automatic signals.

As for the "automatic set ups", they're not "black box" at all- they're just automatic methods of more easily identifying certain patterns of price action representing high quality trade opportunities with a favorable risk/reward- all of which can be indentified manually using the software tools or even the naked eye. Furthermore, the basic "standard trade guidelines" are just that- they're very basic "training wheels" to help get more inexperienced traders used to approaching trading in the right way, which is with a sound approach to risk/reward, position sizing, and trade management.

The bottom line is that like anything in trading, it needs to fit your personality and psychological makeup. With my background and core beliefs about trading, risk, and money management, it was a natural fit and I haven't looked back. Even then, it's really helped me fully "break through" some remaining psychological issues that I was still struggling with in my own trading despite all of the education and other training. So, all in all, it was worth every penny for me.

The absolute best thing one can do to evaluate the approach is to read the trading course written by the developer, the first part of which is free. It will give the philosophy behind the methodology and help to understand the approach to see if what he's suggesting "resonates" with you. Personally, I read that a couple of times, and followed the blog for a couple of months before buying- not to mention looking at everything I could on their site and forum.

To really excel using the this approach requires experience, effort, patience, and skill- but it's well worth it. It's very much a "leading" form of analysis, rather than the typical "lagging" indicators, so in turn it has the tools to nail some amazing trades. The challenge is learning to "trust" the techniques, as they often involve entering trades that very often end up nailing exact turning points in markets- something "conventional" trading wisdom vehemently warns against.

The people who are probably not the best candidates for MTP are the ones looking for a mechanical system or set of indicators that doesn't require much thought, skill, or discretion on the part of the trader.

Hope this helps-

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  #13 (permalink)
 Mindset 
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: ib
Trading: MES
 
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Posts: 362 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 89 given, 289 received

I have used Mtp for about 4 years now.
Understand that the signals are just that ...signals - and you then have to apply your own analysis of whether it's a valid setup in your opinion.
The previous forum user outlined that you have to learn how to trust the signals as this software can highlight THE turning points - but traditionally it is the last place you would enter.

It will take you 6m- 1 year to learn how to become proficient at it (IMHO).

I have analysed over 5000 trades with this software so I know the ones that generally work and the few that don't - what does change is how well the trade works - some signals have a much higher expectancy than others... but of course that also depends on how you manage the trade. So you have to find your own way with that.

It is interesting to note however that the signals that are 'poor' generally end up being flat - so for instance I have done 103 trades on one particular signal and lost $235 in total.


Am I a good trader? - no - still learning, but having confidence in the signals is for me a very important step.


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  #14 (permalink)
 GoldStandard 
arizona
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: rolling my own
Trading: ES,CL,GC,6E
 
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Posts: 211 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 324 given, 189 received

This guy appears to be using mtpredictor. Not much commentary on his blog but you can see he's been taking the signals live for a while.

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  #15 (permalink)
 Eric j 
NY
 
Experience: Advanced
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GoldStandard View Post
This guy appears to be using mtpredictor. Not much commentary on his blog but you can see he's been taking the signals live for a while.

This guys a member here , maybe can give some insight to MT predictor ?

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  #16 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
Calgary, Canada
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multiple
Broker: Multiple
Trading: Multiple
 
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Posts: 430 since Aug 2009

"This guy" does not believe in commenting. I have nothing to teach (who am to I teach anyone?), to sell or convince others of....I had this up because after 4years.....I wanted to show it can be done for average folks with right combination of effort, luck and perseverance. MTP is just a tool - as good as any, or as bad as any.

My opinion is just as bad as the next one.

It's true edge its it's treatment of risk and position sizing and how it forces you think about risk first, second and last and not care about returns. Once I thought of that as a habit, it didn't t matter what MTP showed or indicated.

It was all about taking risk controlled behaviour. I suspect with enough time spent you can find your edge. BTW, there is more than enough on that blog for people to make their own decisions. MTP can fail for several people, it did for me for over 3years. I read everything with trading, had rules, golden nuggets and still kept failing. Nothing worked.

Slowly over time (hard to pinpoint a turnaround day) when I was close to giving up; I tried to see what what Van Tharp said (it couldn't hurt after all, to try one last thing) - practice low risk. I still wasn't making any money, but no matter how many mistakes i made (and still keep making), I was not blowing up my 4th account (previous 3 went the way of the dodo). That feeling of keeping risk low generated a momentum that is hard to teach and hard to make others believe in.

Unless you experience it yourself. Traders who have the opportunity to survive that long may have that chance, but unless it's self generated there is not much of chance of people surviving in the long term.

I used to have lists on rules and all that, now I have torn up all lists and rules. I practive low risk behavour that is a results of all those rules. It works for me

Other than that, not much else to say

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  #17 (permalink)
 Mindset 
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: ib
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Posts: 362 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 89 given, 289 received

They are just like ...cool

I think he is bang on the money.

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  #18 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire)
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 201 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 196 given, 130 received

Just finished my 30 day demo of MTP... My refund was promptly processed minus the $250 look fee. Here is what I found.
The Brit who seems to be in charge, thinks he is the best trainer and has the best materials available,, he just doesn't have a coherent method of instruction(I'm a visual learner and not much of a reader).. He has a 300 page PDF manual (which he pointed out took him 20yrs of experience)..........Problem is using these materials would take me 20yrs to sort out the information, kinda like the bible..

The live "training sessions" are not recorded and its a "pity"(the Brits word) if u miss them.

Would be nice if MTP had a coherent strategy for delivering education, got a little u tube here, recording there when they feel like it and lots of written rather the video (a picture is worth a thousand words) jumbled through their web site.. No one bothered to tell me about these extras until my demo was almost over and I stumbled across them.

Needs a whole market live session training on the use of the manual tools, because if u want more action, u gotta set it up ur self..

Since this is an international company they spend half of the training on the foreign markets,, but that did nothing for me since I only trade day session Eminis.. Each market has it own personality, so who cares about the DAX.. The auto trades were already on the screen, no education presented as to why this auto trade appeared most of the time.. They were great at creating S/R points that a pivot occurs(Decision Point), but if u click enough something works and if that one doesn't hold the next one will, u know the story.

Found the software did generate auto winners for the month I followed(25% return) , though some days there were no trades and only a few trades a day, 11:00 to late in the session EST.

Wow 25%, I should have my head examined for not keeping on with this,, guess I was interested more in the education then the black box returns, the education part was going nowhere for me.



The risk reward tool was the best part of the software and most educational.. Course was the only one I learned how to use..

BTTF is still the best educational company out there..

Don

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  #19 (permalink)
 Mindset 
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Broker: ib
Trading: MES
 
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Posts: 362 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 89 given, 289 received

Interesting comment.
You ONLY made 25% in a month.
What's your goal?

I am an MTP user and I agree with about 95% of what you say - except that I don't quite make 25% a month!
The live trading sessions are a waste of time (IMHO) because MTP is a tool ( well, a tool and a signal generator) and of course every one uses it differently. BUT they are very good at seeing the different uses one tool can be put to!!

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  #20 (permalink)
 traderjcf 
Amherst, New York
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, 6E
 
Posts: 76 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 14 given, 18 received


sdonahue View Post
I own both the standalone platform and the NT Add-ons, and quite frankly, MTP is really the primary tool that I use these days for all of my trading- and yes, if you put in the time and effort to really master it and leverage it for what it is, which is a professional charting and analysis platform for identifying risk-controlled, quality favorable risk/reward trade setups, then yes- it delivers above and beyond.

On top of that, they have phenomenal support and a ton of excellent free education, including a new trade room where the developer (and expert trader) Steve Griffiths provides real time analysis and education- particularly on how to do the advanced analysis that the software is designed for. Before committing to buy, I'd already spent more money than I will freely admit on indicators, systems, platforms and other garbage- so I am well aware of what's out there. If nothing else, the value they deliver for the money is second to none.

I had a good amount of experience and a strong education and background coming in, so for me, the learning curve was probably shorter than for some. I bought it specifically for the more advanced analysis, so I was never really evaluating whether I could trade a purely mechanical approach with the automatic signals.

As for the "automatic set ups", they're not "black box" at all- they're just automatic methods of more easily identifying certain patterns of price action representing high quality trade opportunities with a favorable risk/reward- all of which can be indentified manually using the software tools or even the naked eye. Furthermore, the basic "standard trade guidelines" are just that- they're very basic "training wheels" to help get more inexperienced traders used to approaching trading in the right way, which is with a sound approach to risk/reward, position sizing, and trade management.

The bottom line is that like anything in trading, it needs to fit your personality and psychological makeup. With my background and core beliefs about trading, risk, and money management, it was a natural fit and I haven't looked back. Even then, it's really helped me fully "break through" some remaining psychological issues that I was still struggling with in my own trading despite all of the education and other training. So, all in all, it was worth every penny for me.

The absolute best thing one can do to evaluate the approach is to read the trading course written by the developer, the first part of which is free. It will give the philosophy behind the methodology and help to understand the approach to see if what he's suggesting "resonates" with you. Personally, I read that a couple of times, and followed the blog for a couple of months before buying- not to mention looking at everything I could on their site and forum.

To really excel using the this approach requires experience, effort, patience, and skill- but it's well worth it. It's very much a "leading" form of analysis, rather than the typical "lagging" indicators, so in turn it has the tools to nail some amazing trades. The challenge is learning to "trust" the techniques, as they often involve entering trades that very often end up nailing exact turning points in markets- something "conventional" trading wisdom vehemently warns against.

The people who are probably not the best candidates for MTP are the ones looking for a mechanical system or set of indicators that doesn't require much thought, skill, or discretion on the part of the trader.

Hope this helps-


I have MTP too...I trade 6E and ES...what timeframes have you found useful with MTP...

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  #21 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire)
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 201 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 196 given, 130 received

Enclosed is my spread sheet everytrade,, This is for the Eminis, , 3m day session, auto indications,, using analysis, 2% risk, 5k account.. The ES did not trade that much because 5k is not reasonable for this instrument(so this could have been better or worse for real world..

Course there was contract rollover to muck up the waters. So if it doesn't match ur chart, check the rollover contract date..

Also most of the "filled" trades were "failed" trades ( though they want u to think otherwise and somehow they could tell without looking at the tic data!? ),, If the stop placement was hit before a fill, no trade (even on
the" filled "trades). Any outside bar that was question a filled trade I counted as failed.. So this is probably worse case..

Also did not do the analysis on the R deal(so kept the account size small to mostly trade one contract), since a different number contracts can be taken with a larger account,, seems like a 1r loss on 3 contracts isn't covered by a 1r gain on one contract.. Maybe someone has some insight into that situation and maybe it all works out.


I was a newbie to Elliot wave so even recognizing when to use what tool, would have been helpful, let alone using the tool different then anyone else, just needed a starting point of when to use the hammer rather then the screwdriver,,, then I could get fancy


I also realize that there are different methods of education based on ones personality,, their are many that think they can pound a square peg into a round hole,, more power to u...
Don

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  #22 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Spoon
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Hey guys,could somebody share this tool,I would buy it if not too expensive.Let me know PM,if it possible.

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  #23 (permalink)
 Mindset 
Singapore
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Broker: ib
Trading: MES
 
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Posts: 362 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 89 given, 289 received

If you mean is it possible to borrow someone else's software code - the answer is no ( and what would be in it for that person anyway?) - but really it's much more than simply a signal generator ... it's teaching you how to think about trading and risk. See Deucalion's comments in this thread.

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  #24 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Spoon
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Ok,but for me a very high price in 2000 for the software.

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  #25 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Trading: Futures & Crypto
 
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Vitaliy View Post
Hey guys,could somebody share this tool,I would buy it if not too expensive.Let me know PM,if it possible.

Absolutely not, we do not allow or tolerate such things here.


Vitaliy View Post
Ok,but for me a very high price in 2000 for the software.

Then you can't afford it. Move on.

Mike

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  #26 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Spoon
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Sorry guys, I forgot about your western mentality.

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  #27 (permalink)
 gg80108 
Castle Pines N, CO.
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Amp Futures/Zen-Fire)
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 201 since Jul 2009
Thanks: 196 given, 130 received


Big Mike View Post
Absolutely not, we do not allow or tolerate such things here.



Then you can't afford it. Move on.

Mike

Think u need to check with the vendor of the software some software is like a book, since the vendor controls if u can log on and use their software.. Some of the vendors are reasonable, and rather then have a disgruntled trader bad mouthing them, pass it alone to someone who might see the value.... Course its better that the person who purchased the software contact the vendor... This brings up another issue,, does this mean my wife, relative, financial partner cannot use the software I paid for????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm or can I include this in my estate?

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  #28 (permalink)
Larry
Montreal
 
 
Posts: 59 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3 given, 45 received

Your key is only good for 1 PC, should you need to move it on another PC you can but you need to close Ninjatrader from first PC and only then you can use it on your second PC and you can only do it with 2PC's it will not work on a third one anyway it will only work on 1 PC at a time.

We used to be able to buy a second license for 50 bux for the backup PC but not anymore as I guess some folks sold their second license to other people.

MTPredictor is not cheap and you need a few months to understand everything it can do but once you find the right time frames to use you will find it difficult to trade without it. I need to warn people though that big part of the signals are related to wave patterns and Elliott waves, so if you are not familiar with that or don't understand or believe in that concept then this software might not be appropriate for you.

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  #29 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
Ukraine
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Spoon
 
Posts: 18 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

I bought it,anybody ask me:is it good or not??No comment.When you buy it,you'll see.

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  #30 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninja
Trading: NQ
 
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Vitaliy View Post
I bought it,anybody ask me:is it good or not??No comment.

tnx for an 'informed' review

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  #31 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
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cory View Post
tnx for an 'informed' review

I paid for it as much as 2000 bucks, and I don't want to share information.
Im greedy.
Okay, I'm kidding
This is a really cool thing.I recommend to try the free trail for 95 bucks.

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  #32 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
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Hi guys! if anyone interested to buy the mtpredictor adds on licens for $1300 contact me on alexdenk8@gmail.com

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  #33 (permalink)
 avall38486 
Dallas, Texas
 
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Ganymed View Post
I use MTP add on for NT for over 4 years with continous success. For me the best trading software together with Flux Capacitor from Back to the Future Trading. Both companies are very serious, good support and a lot of instruction videos. I know professional traders using MTP and BTTF daily for FDAX, CL, ES and GC
Ganymed

Hello,
Ganymed, Would it be possible to learn more about how you or some of the professional traders use MTp with the Flux Capacitor. I do have the BTTF and have used it with some mixed success. I am looking into buying the MTP software. Any suggestions or ideas will be very much appreciated.

Amin

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 DAYTRADERPROFESIONAL 
Catalunya Spain
 
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Hi,

I have ofa pro connect, the software package complete. If someone are interested in change the license with the mt predictor profesional pm. Only for a specific time.

Thank's

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  #35 (permalink)
 vchase 
London
 
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Tallyho View Post
Glad to hear of your success Ganymed. I am new with MTP [looking to trade off the 3 & 5 minute charts] and found the DP trades very hard to be successful with. It seems it's so important to determine the larger degree trend [so I look at the 15 minute chart] yet there doesn't seem to be that much info about assessing that under all the different situations that the market creates day by day.

Of course they talk about going to a larger time frame and he refers to this lots on the Advanced blog, however I've found it inconclusive many many times....kind of depends on how far back you look on the larger degree chart...

I just stay away from the DP setups now. Any helpful thoughts?

thanks

With DP entries, if the bar at the DP setup has a long tail showing the market has reversed, I usually wait for the following bar that penetrates the order price to close. If that bar closes with no tail (indicating very little or no hesitation in the new direction) and all that happens within my risk size, I'll take it. But it is usually better to wait for a 2nd similar entry after the market has pulled back (usually from around the 100% R/R point) and is making a 2nd attempt to reverse.

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 vchase 
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aslan View Post
I tried this last year, and the main issue I had was that the signals are constantly redrawn/vanishing (even after entering a trade). So there is no way to look at a chart and figure out what you would have done in the past (other than replaying perhaps). When I brought this up to them and asked for my cash back, the owner literally had a fit on the phone, though they did refund my money. They do have a nice way of looking at RR before entering a trade, which was one of the features that intrigued me to try it out. The other interesting item is that they look at Elliott in simplified terms, which basically means playing the big picture/high probability patterns, instead of trying to get a complete EW count.

I have never seen their software do that, except where NinjaTrader has been set to calculate on bar close equals FALSE. In other words, it is setup to calculate tick by tick instead of on the close of the bar.

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  #37 (permalink)
 Arno66 
Australia
 
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Deucalion View Post
"This guy" does not believe in commenting. I have nothing to teach (who am to I teach anyone?), to sell or convince others of....I had this up because after 4years.....I wanted to show it can be done for average folks with right combination of effort, luck and perseverance. MTP is just a tool - as good as any, or as bad as any.

My opinion is just as bad as the next one.

It's true edge its it's treatment of risk and position sizing and how it forces you think about risk first, second and last and not care about returns. Once I thought of that as a habit, it didn't t matter what MTP showed or indicated.

It was all about taking risk controlled behaviour. I suspect with enough time spent you can find your edge. BTW, there is more than enough on that blog for people to make their own decisions. MTP can fail for several people, it did for me for over 3years. I read everything with trading, had rules, golden nuggets and still kept failing. Nothing worked.

Slowly over time (hard to pinpoint a turnaround day) when I was close to giving up; I tried to see what what Van Tharp said (it couldn't hurt after all, to try one last thing) - practice low risk. I still wasn't making any money, but no matter how many mistakes i made (and still keep making), I was not blowing up my 4th account (previous 3 went the way of the dodo). That feeling of keeping risk low generated a momentum that is hard to teach and hard to make others believe in.

Unless you experience it yourself. Traders who have the opportunity to survive that long may have that chance, but unless it's self generated there is not much of chance of people surviving in the long term.

I used to have lists on rules and all that, now I have torn up all lists and rules. I practive low risk behavour that is a results of all those rules. It works for me

Other than that, not much else to say

Hi Deucalion,
Have you attend any of Van Tharp's workshops or only read his book?
I am currently busy reading his book regarding position size and have purchased the game as well.
Regards,
Arno

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  #38 (permalink)
 sunfun72 
Zurich
 
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I also made a trial with MT Predictor. There are some very good entries generated but you have to double check with other system to filter losing entries.

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  #39 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
Calgary, Canada
 
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Arno66 View Post
Hi Deucalion,
Have you attend any of Van Tharp's workshops or only read his book?
I am currently busy reading his book regarding position size and have purchased the game as well.
Regards,
Arno

@Arno66, unless you use the mention tag not going to see your comment. Sat through a couple of VT's webinars. Good but not impressive. Read his book - same sentiment. MTP is better. The simplicity with which its puts risk control processes in practice is admirable and rare. But here is my own takeaway from either. Neither is perfect. Not sure how one can really drive down the concept that risk control is everything (without getting killed in the process).

Trading is all about sitting in the tall grass. Very quietly. You need to kill, knowing very well that you might end up being the prey.

Two examples from today - I stalked crude patiently today, and it just about cut my head off with its relentless whiplash. Then, in the afternoon, ES gave me more than what I wanted with little or no drama in little or no time. It all about surviving.




It was a good day at the end, but only after hours of chop - the patient did get rewarded. That is all either MTP or VT are about.

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  #40 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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@Deucalion, have you tried the MTP v7 beta? What are your thoughts on the stand-alone vs NinjaTrader integrated option?

Mike

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  #41 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
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Big Mike View Post
@Deucalion, have you tried the MTP v7 beta? What are your thoughts on the stand-alone vs NinjaTrader integrated option?

Mike

Not tried it, but sat though some of his initial webinars. I do not like it. MTP7B's USP is that it is more handy to scan multiple markets and get quicker more easily usable real time alerts than the clumsy Market analyser in NT RT.

That means (in my mind), the typical MTP7B user is being geared more towards bog standard automatic software set-ups. Rather than the ability to plot the waves on multiple chart types in NT RT.

I always thought MTP real USP was allowing those nutty EW types to simplify their understanding of primary waves. In that NT RT is enough. MTP7B is to MTP Predictor what Windows 7 is to the Windows OS.

Glossy, but little real meat, lazy types will like it. And now, Steve is gonna be pissed if he reads this

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  #42 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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USP?

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  #43 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
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Big Mike View Post
USP?

Mike

Unique selling point.

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  #44 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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There is a MTPredictor section in the Platforms area of the forum:

MTPredictor - Big Mike's Trading Forum

It hasn't seen much action, you should feel free to share some more setups and tools of the platform, custom indicators, etc in that section of the site.

Mike

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  #45 (permalink)
 Koepisch 
@ Germany
 
Experience: Beginner
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Generally i share Deucalion's mentions and want to add that the V7 is a good investment for current V6.5 users. This version is a complete reengineered product and it seems that steve will change the old chart control with a new one soon. Then the chart will be become a more smooth visual experience (more glossy ). The major drawdown towards the NT AddOn version is the lack of a trade module and the missing ZenFire/Rithmic feed connectivity. I've bought both versions and only use the NT AddOn module yet.

The Ninjatrader MTP AddOn module is an excellent piece of software for real traders. You can fire and manage trades (Trade Module) and can use the power of Ninjatrader (Bartypes, other Indicators to filter setups). Look at the websites blog und training material and you get a deep insight about the products. The MTP team doing a lot to keep the customers and interested peoples informed. I've done a lot of homework to grasp the system's probabilities - it's worthwhile.

Koepisch

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  #46 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
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Koepisch View Post
.......................... I've done a lot of homework to grasp the system's probabilities - it's worthwhile.

Koepisch

God-damn it! @Koepisch. You let the cat out! It's a good thing that a lot of people poke fun at EW and related approaches as hokey, keeps the riff raff out

The dual edge nature of EW and tools that employ it, the nature that goes "it could be this or it could be that" is elemental to trading. And people just hate that answer. When you say software - people expect some automated stuff, advanced red-light blue light special kind of hookum.

I sat though a touted cutting edge order flow webinar this week that promised to identify with order flow, buy and sell programs. Something to explain and exploit what is causing these market to show this "spurt and die" nature. Sort of trading with the bots, so to speak. I cannot begin to tell you how unimpressed I was with the nonsense being passed off as knowledge.

The only game in town is to identify the major structure, using whatever is in your hand - order-flow, VSA, Elliot Waves, Moon cycles or that very popular (and in my mind, highly overrated) market profile.

Recently I came across a TED talk that talked about how research is corrupted by selective analysis - its a brilliant damnation of our medical system. Please see it.



What does it have to do with trading? If one accepts that all trading processes are flawed and often fail as much as they succeed, one must endeavour to stick with the approach that appeals intuitively. How do you polish that intuition? by failing and making a fool of yourself everyday. You wont make friends or be looked on as an awesome guy, but man will they be jealous when you roll up in your S600

MTP works, the trick is to identify the major wave structure, the NT RT add-on works just fine. It teaches what failed and what worked. And it gets better over time because it forces you to focus on the same structure over and over again.

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  #47 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Koepisch View Post
Generally i share Deucalion's mentions and want to add that the V7 is a good investment for current V6.5 users. This version is a complete reengineered product and it seems that steve will change the old chart control with a new one soon. Then the chart will be become a more smooth visual experience (more glossy ). The major drawdown towards the NT AddOn version is the lack of a trade module and the missing ZenFire/Rithmic feed connectivity. I've bought both versions and only use the NT AddOn module yet.

The Ninjatrader MTP AddOn module is an excellent piece of software for real traders. You can fire and manage trades (Trade Module) and can use the power of Ninjatrader (Bartypes, other Indicators to filter setups). Look at the websites blog und training material and you get a deep insight about the products. The MTP team doing a lot to keep the customers and interested peoples informed. I've done a lot of homework to grasp the system's probabilities - it's worthwhile.

Koepisch

Does MTPredictor has direct execution capabilities? I think that Rithmic can write only to those who have direct execution capabilities. A few months back I was in touch with MTPredictor and I will resume talking to see what I can do to help.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #48 (permalink)
 Koepisch 
@ Germany
 
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I don't think that the standalone program has any trading capabilities yet. The founder @Griff1 could answer the question better. But i hope that steve planned this for future developments. Because the MTP team integrated other feeds yet, i think it won't be a problem to add the rithmic feed for data receiving only. The NT MTP AddOn trade manager use the NT api to manage the trades, so i am afraid that their knowledge is currently limited. The MTPredictor team release only well tested products - the addition of a direct execution functionality would be a major impact into their budget and developer resources.

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 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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Koepisch View Post
I don't think that the standalone program has any trading capabilities yet. The founder @Griff1 could answer the question better. But i hope that steve planned this for future developments. Because the MTP team integrated other feeds yet, i think it won't be a problem to add the rithmic feed for data receiving only. The NT MTP AddOn trade manager use the NT api to manage the trades, so i am afraid that their knowledge is currently limited. The MTPredictor team release only well tested products - the addition of a direct execution functionality would be a major impact into their budget and developer resources.

I totally agree with you, the impact of such development could be tremendous.
Will check with all parties to see as far as future development.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email support@OptimusFutures.com
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  #50 (permalink)
 Vitaliy 
Ukraine
 
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Hi guys! if anyone interested to buy the mtpredictor adds on licens for $1300 contact me on alexdenk8@gmail.com, conditions of the deal negotiable.

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  #51 (permalink)
 JanM 
Prague, Czech Republic
 
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I bought NT Add-ons MTPredictor some years ago (version for NT 6.5). It looked like a mechanical system, but it is like other systems. For profitable trading you must filter signals and use discretion. What is good for new traders is the clear profit target and stop loss and positive Risk Reward Ratio.

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  #52 (permalink)
 ness1g 
boston ma
 
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Deucalion View Post
@Arno66, unless you use the mention tag not going to see your comment. Sat through a couple of VT's webinars. Good but not impressive. Read his book - same sentiment. MTP is better. The simplicity with which its puts risk control processes in practice is admirable and rare. But here is my own takeaway from either. Neither is perfect. Not sure how one can really drive down the concept that risk control is everything (without getting killed in the process).

Trading is all about sitting in the tall grass. Very quietly. You need to kill, knowing very well that you might end up being the prey.

Two examples from today - I stalked crude patiently today, and it just about cut my head off with its relentless whiplash. Then, in the afternoon, ES gave me more than what I wanted with little or no drama in little or no time. It all about surviving.




It was a good day at the end, but only after hours of chop - the patient did get rewarded. That is all either MTP or VT are about.

Hi Deucalion,
Are you still using mtp?
Do you recommend buying it?
Thanks,
Robert

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  #53 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
Calgary, Canada
 
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ness1g View Post
Hi Deucalion,
Are you still using mtp?
Do you recommend buying it?
Thanks,
Robert

Do I use it? - Very much so, both in ES Emini and FX trading.

Do I recommend it? Yes and No, not for its signals. For how it teaches you the importance of position sizing and risk control. That is golden. Their signals and algo part, is more difficult to master. And with flaws. It is often unable to identify correct impulses and subsequently paints incorrect corrective wave/cycle points. The concept that the signals are based on (Elliot Wave Isolation) can be learned with price action trading and Fibs.

For Example - Yesterday, there was a buy in AUDJPY shown marked. MTP did in fact identify that as a buy/ However. I was already going to buy it here as that was point of optimal cycle contraction and a point of anticipated resumption of expansion that can be learned by study of price patterns. It took me years to understand why MTP painted a buy there, Now I get it. But MTP did help me along the way. So I keep it in my arsenal. So, this is a very qualified response. I have spent more money on other tools - like Order Flow, VSA, Profiling, time data mining etc etc - I don't use any of them now. They are inferior in opinion as a complete trading approach. A complete trading approach is one addresses position sizing. None of them do.


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  #54 (permalink)
 ness1g 
boston ma
 
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Deucalion View Post
Do I use it? - Very much so, both in ES Emini and FX trading.

Do I recommend it? Yes and No, not for its signals. For how it teaches you the importance of position sizing and risk control. That is golden. Their signals and algo part, is more difficult to master. And with flaws. It is often unable to identify correct impulses and subsequently paints incorrect corrective wave/cycle points. The concept that the signals are based on (Elliot Wave Isolation) can be learned with price action trading and Fibs.

For Example - Yesterday, there was a buy in AUDJPY shown marked. MTP did in fact identify that as a buy/ However. I was already going to buy it here as that was point of optimal cycle contraction and a point of anticipated resumption of expansion that can be learned by study of price patterns. It took me years to understand why MTP painted a buy there, Now I get it. But MTP did help me along the way. So I keep it in my arsenal. So, this is a very qualified response. I have spent more money on other tools - like Order Flow, VSA, Profiling, time data mining etc etc - I don't use any of them now. They are inferior in opinion as a complete trading approach. A complete trading approach is one addresses position sizing. None of them do.


thank you for replying but now IM back to square one yes and no

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  #55 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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ness1g View Post
thank you for replying but now IM back to square one yes and no

The question is: Why do you want to buy it? You didn't really ask him any questions that would help you it seems to me. You need to make a list of specifics and ask them. You can't expect any software to just provide entry/exit signals.

Mike

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  #56 (permalink)
 ness1g 
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Big Mike View Post
The question is: Why do you want to buy it? You didn't really ask him any questions that would help you it seems to me. You need to make a list of specifics and ask them. You can't expect any software to just provide entry/exit signals.

Mike

I think you just answered my question by asking me why I wanna buy it.

Thank you for your continuous concern.
Robert

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  #57 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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ness1g View Post
I think you just answered my question by asking me why I wanna buy it.

Thank you for your continuous concern.
Robert

I want to make sure we are on the same page. I have no feelings either way about the product. I was not questioning you based on it not being good -- I was questioning you so that you could ask what is important to you, and then you could get feedback on those things.

If you don't have a good answer, then I think what you are wanting is just something that tells you where to buy and sell. No such thing exists of any kind in any measure anywhere. Notice, I didn't say no such thing is being SOLD, as vendors are selling that all over the place. But as @Deucalion mentioned, you cannot buy MTP and then expect to simply trade the signals it spits out. Like everything in life, and especially in trading, it's not that black or white.

So the question is, what are you wanting to accomplish? Why do you want to buy it?

Mike

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  #58 (permalink)
 mr11 
New York, NY/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TS 9.1, NT7
Broker: Tradestation , Mirus/Zen-Fire
Trading: TF CL GC 6E ES FESX, NG, ZN
 
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I have version 7 for Ninja - licensed version with order module add on.

Mike - the stand alone is supposed to have better charting features not available in the Ninja version - that is, unless the Ninja one has been improved since I purchased the software earlier this year.

To be honest, I don't particularly care much for Steve's webinar presentations
(he just has a way about him that doesn't work for me - perhaps it's cultural differences);
that said, Bruce in tech support has been wonderful.

I use MT Predictor to measure reward to risk on my NON-MT Predictor generated setups, and only take trades off the MT Predictor generated signals when I have confirmation from other tools. I tend to use wider stops than that generated by the program so my Reward to Risk drops off a bit.

I do find the S/R levels generated by the software useful for determining stop placements and targets.


Hope that helps.

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 futuretrader 
Como Italy
 
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Deucalion View Post
...The concept that the signals are based on (Elliot Wave Isolation) can be learned with price action trading and Fibs.

..... It took me years to understand why MTP painted a buy there, Now I get it. But MTP did help me along the way.

@Deucalion,
Where would you recommend going to learn these "lliot Wave Isolation" structures, if not using the software?

thanks

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  #60 (permalink)
 Deucalion 
Calgary, Canada
 
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mr11 View Post
I have version 7 for Ninja - licensed version with order module add on.

Mike - the stand alone is supposed to have better charting features not available in the Ninja version - that is, unless the Ninja one has been improved since I purchased the software earlier this year.

To be honest, I don't particularly care much for Steve's webinar presentations
(he just has a way about him that doesn't work for me - perhaps it's cultural differences);
that said, Bruce in tech support has been wonderful.

I use MT Predictor to measure reward to risk on my NON-MT Predictor generated setups, and only take trades off the MT Predictor generated signals when I have confirmation from other tools. I tend to use wider stops than that generated by the program so my Reward to Risk drops off a bit.

I do find the S/R levels generated by the software useful for determining stop placements and targets.


Hope that helps.


futuretrader View Post
@Deucalion,
Where would you recommend going to learn these "lliot Wave Isolation" structures, if not using the software?

thanks

Steve is a vendor, I dont listen to what he sells. 2 days ago if you watched the 15M, 3M and 5M charts on all 4 indices (ES, YM, TF and NQ) you would have had 8 bad signals (each one costing 1R) for -8R. And one winning signal that was stopped at breakeven. But he wont tell you that. In a consolidating market, the software will see abc setups on every swing.

What MR11 is doing is quite smart.

Ness1G / FutureTrader - Elliot Wave isolation is nothing other than Price action trading (some call it harmnics, others see Gartley and Crabs in them, others see Fib Ratio Trading in them). Its all the same. The answers are here (and its all free). Read it all, and then put in some screen time.


This is the freely avialble Part I of the MTP Manual that outlines the idea of Impulses amd correctives and how signals are generally formed (it has some parts removed from the members only manual but its a great place to start)

http://mtpredictor.com/data/mtpredic/uploads/pdf/MTPIntro2.pdf

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  #61 (permalink)
 ness1g 
boston ma
 
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Big Mike View Post
I want to make sure we are on the same page. I have no feelings either way about the product. I was not questioning you based on it not being good -- I was questioning you so that you could ask what is important to you, and then you could get feedback on those things.

If you don't have a good answer, then I think what you are wanting is just something that tells you where to buy and sell. No such thing exists of any kind in any measure anywhere. Notice, I didn't say no such thing is being SOLD, as vendors are selling that all over the place. But as @Deucalion mentioned, you cannot buy MTP and then expect to simply trade the signals it spits out. Like everything in life, and especially in trading, it's not that black or white.

So the question is, what are you wanting to accomplish? Why do you want to buy it?

Mike

What I want is what everybody else want, some edge of some sort, any trading method will end up working to some degree and this is the 50% of the equation to be profitable in trading. The other 50% is money management. I was hoping that MTP will help in the latter. Probably similar to what MR11 mentioned. Maybe using MTP signal for confirmation since it's being advertised as a leading indicator. using my trading method as the main approach but most importantly MTP might help with the money management part.
Again thank you for your concern.

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 ness1g 
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Big Mike View Post
I want to make sure we are on the same page. I have no feelings either way about the product. I was not questioning you based on it not being good -- I was questioning you so that you could ask what is important to you, and then you could get feedback on those things.

If you don't have a good answer, then I think what you are wanting is just something that tells you where to buy and sell. No such thing exists of any kind in any measure anywhere. Notice, I didn't say no such thing is being SOLD, as vendors are selling that all over the place. But as @Deucalion mentioned, you cannot buy MTP and then expect to simply trade the signals it spits out. Like everything in life, and especially in trading, it's not that black or white.

So the question is, what are you wanting to accomplish? Why do you want to buy it?

Mike

IM sure you are familiar with what MTP does. For that kind of money around $2k is there anything else that you recommend which offers similar outcome and by that I mean position sizing, risk reward and some sort of S/R confirmation levels?
IM not looking for buy and sell signals but I was hoping to invest or look into in something that would contribute to improve part of money management.
Thanks,
Robert

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  #63 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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ness1g View Post
IM sure you are familiar with what MTP does. For that kind of money around $2k is there anything else that you recommend which offers similar outcome and by that I mean position sizing, risk reward and some sort of S/R confirmation levels?
IM not looking for buy and sell signals but I was hoping to invest or look into in something that would contribute to improve part of money management.
Thanks,
Robert

There is a serious lacking of tools in this area. I would say MTP is at the forefront, but there are some tools in Elite section of futures.io (formerly BMT) that perform similar risk analysis, and you can extend them further since the code is posted.

I cannot offer any experience on this much either way, because I do not use MTP nor NT7. I suggest some sort of trial option if it is available, or if you specifically want the risk tools then you could extend what is already posted on futures.io (formerly BMT) and/or hire someone to do it in the paid programming services section and get a customized solution.

Mike

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 sands 
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I've found the vendors website rather unclear, what is this some sort of Elliott wave modelling with something like fractals measuring reversals?

Can someone give me a couple of sentences summarising it please.

Thanks,

Sands.

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  #65 (permalink)
 Beachmaster 
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sdonahue View Post
I own both the standalone platform and the NT Add-ons, and quite frankly, MTP is really the primary tool that I use these days for all of my trading- and yes, if you put in the time and effort to really master it and leverage it for what it is, which is a professional charting and analysis platform for identifying risk-controlled, quality favorable risk/reward trade setups, then yes- it delivers above and beyond.

On top of that, they have phenomenal support and a ton of excellent free education, including a new trade room where the developer (and expert trader) Steve Griffiths provides real time analysis and education- particularly on how to do the advanced analysis that the software is designed for. Before committing to buy, I'd already spent more money than I will freely admit on indicators, systems, platforms and other garbage- so I am well aware of what's out there. If nothing else, the value they deliver for the money is second to none.

I had a good amount of experience and a strong education and background coming in, so for me, the learning curve was probably shorter than for some. I bought it specifically for the more advanced analysis, so I was never really evaluating whether I could trade a purely mechanical approach with the automatic signals.

As for the "automatic set ups", they're not "black box" at all- they're just automatic methods of more easily identifying certain patterns of price action representing high quality trade opportunities with a favorable risk/reward- all of which can be indentified manually using the software tools or even the naked eye. Furthermore, the basic "standard trade guidelines" are just that- they're very basic "training wheels" to help get more inexperienced traders used to approaching trading in the right way, which is with a sound approach to risk/reward, position sizing, and trade management.

The bottom line is that like anything in trading, it needs to fit your personality and psychological makeup. With my background and core beliefs about trading, risk, and money management, it was a natural fit and I haven't looked back. Even then, it's really helped me fully "break through" some remaining psychological issues that I was still struggling with in my own trading despite all of the education and other training. So, all in all, it was worth every penny for me.

The absolute best thing one can do to evaluate the approach is to read the trading course written by the developer, the first part of which is free. It will give the philosophy behind the methodology and help to understand the approach to see if what he's suggesting "resonates" with you. Personally, I read that a couple of times, and followed the blog for a couple of months before buying- not to mention looking at everything I could on their site and forum.

To really excel using the this approach requires experience, effort, patience, and skill- but it's well worth it. It's very much a "leading" form of analysis, rather than the typical "lagging" indicators, so in turn it has the tools to nail some amazing trades. The challenge is learning to "trust" the techniques, as they often involve entering trades that very often end up nailing exact turning points in markets- something "conventional" trading wisdom vehemently warns against.

The people who are probably not the best candidates for MTP are the ones looking for a mechanical system or set of indicators that doesn't require much thought, skill, or discretion on the part of the trader.

Hope this helps-

Ive spent so much money on indicators to! R you still using MT predictor ? Your right trading is about money management and trusting your set ups or indicators. You can only hide so many Tools or toys from the wife lol.

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 Magiklair 
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Beachmaster View Post

Ive spent so much money on indicators to! R you still using MT predictor ? Your right trading is about money management and trusting your set ups or indicators. You can only hide so many Tools or toys from the wife lol.

I suggest you stick to the basics and check out Pats price action trading manual. As for MT Predictor, I did a demo as well. The software has some good features. But will require a fair amount of work to get use to it.. I decided not to purchase it, As wasn't consistent or required much more of a learning curve than I wanted.
Regards,
Brian St.

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 Minds 
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Ganymed View Post
I use MTP add on for NT for over 4 years with continous success. For me the best trading software together with Flux Capacitor from Back to the Future Trading. Both companies are very serious, good support and a lot of instruction videos. I know professional traders using MTP and BTTF daily for FDAX, CL, ES and GC
Ganymed

Are you still using MTP? What is your feedback now?

Thanks

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 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
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new tradingschools review of MTPredictor:

MT Predictor - Trading Schools.Org

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  #69 (permalink)
Griff1
Bristol, UK
 
 
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Hi Everybody,

I do not normally post here as I am the developer of this software, but I feel I have to put the record straight on this review.

The person who runs this review site has not downloaded a copy of our MTPredictor software, nor has he contacted me to ask any questions to understand what we do. It is obvious from his comments that he has not used MTPredictor, nor has any idea about what we do or the underlying concepts of our software. This review site has been mentioned before on this Forum about not being representative or being able to give an unbiased or correct review.

As with everything in life, it is always best that each individual person looks at any system they are interested in themselves and then make their own decision, on whether that system or approach will work well for them and fits in with their own trading style.

Thanks

Steve Griffiths
MTPredictor Developer.

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  #70 (permalink)
 DrRumpy 
Canada
 
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Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting. Emmett's goal is always to find out if the juice is worth the squeeze. Does the vendor actually trade, for real using their software/strategy.

It's OK not to do so and be honest about it. Where it get's dodgy is when paper trade stats are passed off as a measure of success. A lot of his readers just want to know if the price being charged is backed up by legit trading success.

And as I'm sure you know about this industry, most of us would have a better chance catching a greased pig with no hands, than getting a real edge out of some indicator.

I think you have a point. And some features like money mamagement are neglected topics. It's also pretty expensive so maybe without any verifiable results it doesn't matter. We'll all pay our noob tax to some vendors and hope to save the next fish a few bucks avoiding the worst/most expensive crap.

Regards.

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Griff1
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Hi DrRumpy,

Exactly, I have been around for 29 years in the markets, and I agree, it is so hard trying to sift the useless from the worthwhile as there are so many vendors selling so much nowadays.

It is also very hard because (typically) 95-97% of amateur Traders end up losing anyway. This is not always the result of a bad system, as many amateurs just continue to make so many fundamental mistakes, like over trading, not letting winners run etc etc. The hard fact of Trading life is that it is hard and very few make it.

Personally, I believe that to stand a good chance to have to understand a few basics on the markets, first that markets move in cycles, in other words they go though good/bad or clear/unclear times. This makes trading any type of mechanical system hard (most mechanical systems blow up after a while and are only short lived). This is what Emmett is looking for as this is the only thing that he seems to focus on. But, because this is not what we do at MTPredictor, it will be hard for Emmett to judge us using his limited criteria. We do not believe in mechanical or system trading our setups. Our setups are to be used in conjunction with the end user experience. This is what we teach in our Training (not Trading) Room. I have have been amazed over the years at how different, different users approach and utilize our setups. Everybody is unique and an individual, so it is natural that they will have different Risk tolerance and different aggression and a different (an individual) approach to the markets. Again, that is why trying to attach a track Record to what we do is unrepresentative, because each user will be different anyway.

You are right, money management is not mentioned enough by most vendors, especially when keeping losses under control is so important. This should apply to any system or approach, not just ours. If people can master this, then they stand a chance.

Thanks

Steve Griffiths
MTPredictor Developer

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  #72 (permalink)
Griff1
Bristol, UK
 
 
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Hi DrRumpy,

To answer your question on whether Vendors should trade their own Systems, here is my history and take on that.

I started trading (with my own money) in 1987 and had three hard years, like most amateurs I struggled and could not make any system I purchased work. I then found success and put together 3 very good years. I then moved to become a professional fund manager with a City Trading Firm, but this only lasted 9 months as the company I was working for ceased trading. I then went back to trading my own money. This continued until I launched MTPredictor in 2001. I did this because although I was making a good %, when you only have a small amount of trading capitol, all my profits were just paying for living expenses.

Since 2001 I have been focusing on software development and Customer support. But I have been missing trading, so I have recently started trading (with my own money) again. So yes, I do trade my own money using my own software.

But none of this was in Emmett 's review because (as I said in my last post) he never bothered to download our software or read our web site fully or contact me with any questions.

However, what I have found is that it is very very hard to focus on full time trading while providing full time customer support and all the other things that being a software developer involve. I will give you an example. I was recently short a lovely TS3(HG) short on the YM, but I had to take a Customer support call, so I moved my stop to break-even (too early), I then got stopped out for break-even only to watch the trade reach its target where I should have taken a +7R Profit.

So I think this is why so many vendors don't trade, it is not because they can't or that they don't believe in their own system or approach, it is because their priorities have to be to their Customers and their Company, and not their own Trading.

So to be so hard on vendors (like Emmett seems to be) I think is unfair. As I said in my last post, I think each person should take their time and evaluate any new system they are interested in. Ask questions, do their research and see whether it fits in with their own style of trading. But just to blanket every vendor who does not not trade themselves with a bad review is too harsh and not fair as this belittles what many vendors are doing for their own Customers. As you say - As long as vendors are honest about what they are doing and don't make false claims, then that should be OK for prospects to be able to evaluate what they offer.

Thanks

Steve Griffiths
MTPredictor Ltd

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  #73 (permalink)
 JonnyBoy 
Market Wizard
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Griff1 View Post
Hi DrRumpy,

Exactly, I have been around for 29 years in the markets, and I agree, it is so hard trying to sift the useless from the worthwhile as there are so many vendors selling so much nowadays.

It is also very hard because (typically) 95-97% of amateur Traders end up losing anyway. This is not always the result of a bad system, as many amateurs just continue to make so many fundamental mistakes, like over trading, not letting winners run etc etc. The hard fact of Trading life is that it is hard and very few make it.

Personally, I believe that to stand a good chance to have to understand a few basics on the markets, first that markets move in cycles, in other words they go though good/bad or clear/unclear times. This makes trading any type of mechanical system hard (most mechanical systems blow up after a while and are only short lived). This is what Emmett is looking for as this is the only thing that he seems to focus on. But, because this is not what we do at MTPredictor, it will be hard for Emmett to judge us using his limited criteria. We do not believe in mechanical or system trading our setups. Our setups are to be used in conjunction with the end user experience. This is what we teach in our Training (not Trading) Room. I have have been amazed over the years at how different, different users approach and utilize our setups. Everybody is unique and an individual, so it is natural that they will have different Risk tolerance and different aggression and a different (an individual) approach to the markets. Again, that is why trying to attach a track Record to what we do is unrepresentative, because each user will be different anyway.

You are right, money management is not mentioned enough by most vendors, especially when keeping losses under control is so important. This should apply to any system or approach, not just ours. If people can master this, then they stand a chance.

Thanks

Steve Griffiths
MTPredictor Developer

I just had a look over at TS. Ouch. So as a guy sitting on the fence...

I guess Emmett's point when reviewing any trading software is to determine that the average end user can be profitable by using it. If a trader isn't profitable at that said moment in time, could the software be used in a manner that could perhaps turn the fortunes of a struggling trader around, or at the very least stop the bleeding!

Is there enough evidence to suggest that the end user is better or worse off for using the said vendor's software vs. the hundreds of other pieces of trading software available to them.

If there is a discernible edge to using a piece of software, can it be proven? Unfortunately, the only way Emmett can determine that is by requesting evidence that the vendor's software does in fact make a trader profitable or not.

I am not agreeing nor defending Emmett. He can be bloody harsh, but I believe there is some good in what he is trying to do. He seems to have flushed out some of the crooks that is for sure. But, by putting some heat under the more trusted vendors (like yourselves) I believe it can only lead to a better product produced by you guys. I sincerely believe that.

I do not have your software so my comments are strictly related to how I read the TS posts.

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  #74 (permalink)
 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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if you drill down all he is saying is you will not provide trading records that you trade the system and wave studies are not easy. other that that your good. that is good ..look what he says about the rest of the field. market delta, motive wave, CQG full package, x Trader Pro , Bloomberg would all receive the same same review...they do not provide any of the stuff he would use to grade there software too. but i agree with Johnnyboy over all he has exposed some bad people. some should be jailed...

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 JonnyBoy 
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forgiven View Post
if you drill down all he is saying is you will not provide trading records that you trade the system and wave studies are not easy. other that that your good. that is good ..look what he says about the rest of the field. market delta, motive wave, CQG full package, x Trader Pro , Bloomberg would all receive the same same review...they do not provide any of the stuff he would use to grade there software too. but i agree with Johnnyboy over all he has exposed some bad people. some should be jailed...

Yes. A Bloomberg terminal (as an example) could not provide any of the information to define a discernible edge, because that software wasnít designed or advertised in a way that it could. The same applies to TradeStation, NinjaTrader, XTrader or any trading platform for that matter. Not one of them sells themselves on the fact it can improve your trading.

Where the issues arise (for me and many others) is when software is advertised in such a way that it can provide an edge, reduce your risk but has no reasonable way of proving it. In fact, it is often the case where there is not a single shred of evidence that the software is even mildly profitable or can in some way provide the tiniest of edges.

The only way us traders can prove success is the bottom line. If it isnít positive on a consistent basis, then we are eating beans on toast next month for dinner.

Vendors have a habit of whistling past the windmill (point of no return) and they fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy of believing their software is as good as they say it is. They have ventured too far down the line and invested too much money to pull out now.

Can they prove it as good as they portray? No. They donít need to because they can just blame the end user experience, different trading approaches, utilisation of the software, risk tolerance etc. And the cycle repeats over and over.

We have all seen this narrative before including the insanity of Michael @ BTTFT whom eventually admitted he doesnít trade his own software live, after some very bizarre posts on a thread (canít remember the name of it now) last year.

I think it was Emmett that pointed out MTPredictor advertised with the slogan |Control Your Trading Risk and Win| - well if you Google search them they still do. To this day though, I donít believe they provided TS with any information substantiating this claim.



This will continue to be a merry-go-round of vendor vs. end user experience, different trading approaches, utilisation of the software, risk tolerance and so on.

In other words, until a vendor can prove ďsomethingĒ about their product being even mildly edge providing or profitable, the narrative will be spun around and around and around. New traders will get on the ride with hopes and dreams, whilst now Ďseasonedí traders get off the ride wondering how they could have been drawn into it in the first place.

The only reason I know is because I have been that trader until I woke up and realised this; the only fool for believing this stuff works was me.

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 forgiven 
Fletcher NC
 
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i no you have seen my post on other vendors and no one hits them harder than me. few trader know any thing much about wave studies. mt predictor has advance tools on waves like motive wave and can scan for them too. it also as limited auto fib. tools . limited VSA volume tools, advanced traded management tools. what i was trying and may be did not do a good job on was to point out ....this software is much more that just a auto trading signals that is the grail. it has the stuff under the hood to do advance studies like the software i referenced in my post. now i do not use the software, i do all of my studies the hard way..that is how i learned but i have look at it and others and do not give a damn about the vendor. your point about the way it is marketed is correct. if you pull that out of the question the software could stand on its own merits. also the person doing the reviewing is not always 100 % correct on every matter. like giving Jasons oil trading room 5 stars for example , he gave market delta edge the same review as mtpridector. your point was well made as always i would give this one a little more air than the others.

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edward40
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Deucalion View Post
@Arno66, unless you use the mention tag not going to see your comment. Sat through a couple of VT's webinars. Good but not impressive. Read his book - same sentiment. MTP is better. The simplicity with which its puts risk control processes in practice is admirable and rare. But here is my own takeaway from either. Neither is perfect. Not sure how one can really drive down the concept that risk control is everything (without getting killed in the process).

Trading is all about sitting in the tall grass. Very quietly. You need to kill, knowing very well that you might end up being the prey.

Two examples from today - I stalked crude patiently today, and it just about cut my head off with its relentless whiplash. Then, in the afternoon, ES gave me more than what I wanted with little or no drama in little or no time. It all about surviving.




It was a good day at the end, but only after hours of chop - the patient did get rewarded. That is all either MTP or VT are about.

Some of this could have been known with market geometry and free line drawing tools. Cannot comment further until I review their videos to see what this chart means.
ABC correction to me is what I call a double bottom pullback after and up move, very reliable.
Larger trend touch of support to me is price support based on the breakout bar area, retouch of the descending channel. Also a double bottom reversal.
No software needed, at least on that chart.

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edward40
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Griff1 View Post
Hi DrRumpy,

To answer your question on whether Vendors should trade their own Systems, here is my history and take on that.

I started trading (with my own money) in 1987 and had three hard years, like most amateurs I struggled and could not make any system I purchased work. I then found success and put together 3 very good years. I then moved to become a professional fund manager with a City Trading Firm, but this only lasted 9 months as the company I was working for ceased trading. I then went back to trading my own money. This continued until I launched MTPredictor in 2001. I did this because although I was making a good %, when you only have a small amount of trading capitol, all my profits were just paying for living expenses.

Since 2001 I have been focusing on software development and Customer support. But I have been missing trading, so I have recently started trading (with my own money) again. So yes, I do trade my own money using my own software.

But none of this was in Emmett 's review because (as I said in my last post) he never bothered to download our software or read our web site fully or contact me with any questions.

However, what I have found is that it is very very hard to focus on full time trading while providing full time customer support and all the other things that being a software developer involve. I will give you an example. I was recently short a lovely TS3(HG) short on the YM, but I had to take a Customer support call, so I moved my stop to break-even (too early), I then got stopped out for break-even only to watch the trade reach its target where I should have taken a +7R Profit.

So I think this is why so many vendors don't trade, it is not because they can't or that they don't believe in their own system or approach, it is because their priorities have to be to their Customers and their Company, and not their own Trading.

So to be so hard on vendors (like Emmett seems to be) I think is unfair. As I said in my last post, I think each person should take their time and evaluate any new system they are interested in. Ask questions, do their research and see whether it fits in with their own style of trading. But just to blanket every vendor who does not not trade themselves with a bad review is too harsh and not fair as this belittles what many vendors are doing for their own Customers. As you say - As long as vendors are honest about what they are doing and don't make false claims, then that should be OK for prospects to be able to evaluate what they offer.

Thanks

Steve Griffiths
MTPredictor Ltd

Thank you for sharing your personal insights. It sounds like it is more profitable to sell software or services than trade.
I am reviewing the MT software comments and videos based on a member here who believes in the concepts behind the software, so this comment is not negative towards the software author.
The first question everyone should ask, is why is so and so running a trade room, or selling indicators, or mentoring, if they really are a profitable self sustaining trader? I suppose there are varied answers, some legit. On the other hand, there must be many who really are trading sim.

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edward40
Chicago
 
 
Posts: 143 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 2 given, 67 received


avall38486 View Post
Hello,
Ganymed, Would it be possible to learn more about how you or some of the professional traders use MTp with the Flux Capacitor. I do have the BTTF and have used it with some mixed success. I am looking into buying the MTP software. Any suggestions or ideas will be very much appreciated.

Amin

Saw some negative comments on BTTF - Back to the Future Trading so buyer beware and do your due diligence.

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