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The Rational Trader trading room/ system


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The Rational Trader trading room/ system

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  #1 (permalink)
 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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The Rational Trader

I stumbled across Shane Handy at an Infinity Futures webinar a couple of weeks ago which caught my eye. There was not sell this, buy that, vote for me and I'll set you free BS - straight up from the get go. (IMO most promo's tend to be a zero.)

That prompted me to attend a four hour (it went five) webinar put on by Shane the following Saturday morning, damn good stuff. To view a recording of that webinar go to the website, bottom of the page.

Ok, what's up with that, 2/ 2.

Then I took advantage of his seven day trial for seven US clams, again that dog will hunt.

On to the what he does/ trade room.

Shane primarily trades /CL (a rarity in just that) with a few custom indicators which he provides with your monthly subscription (I don't know if they are included with the trial package, never tried to download them.) The charting software is Sierra Chart and SC numbers bars - which is the bread and butter of the system.

The overall base/ underlying/ premise is order flow (price action) coupled with pointed rules for entering trades and NOT entering trades.

I know enough about tape reading, price action, distribution and accumulation to make me dangerous, but Shane put order flow in terms that I could understand, grasp, get my head around - that of which helped me with other esteemed folks here at futures.io (formerly BMT), yadda yadda.

The only drawback I found was the live trading room is open from roughly 0830amET to 12noon.

All in all I believe it's worth your time for at least a seven day trial and/ or signing up for his FREE daily videos especially if you trade /CL.

Mr. Handy runs a very professional, rule based, no bullshit trading room.

Visit his website, make your own decision.

Cheers, ride safe and keep the rubber side down

-Bill_M

Full disclosure: I have NO interest in therationaltrader.com et al.

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  #3 (permalink)
 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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If interested there's a webinar tomorrow at 11amET

I don't know if there's a room capacity or not

I would guess there's more info at the website

-Bill_M

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  #4 (permalink)
 noodles 
New York, NY
 
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You are right....this is the real deal.

I'm a long-time order flow trader and have spent a lot of time training and studying order flow using footprints charts, market profile, delta, etc. and it takes a lot to WOW me. But I was wowed when I recently came across TheRationalTrader. This is a rather unique system based upon a Sierra Charts and TradeStation based set of indicators in which the author has transcribed information from the footprint charts into very readable signals on a price chart. Anyone interested in learning the basic elements of order flow trading and interpreting footprint charts will catapult their learning curve by checking out this site. Shane explains the system clearly and there is no black box mystery here. He explains the algorithmic basis for each of his indicators. If you can master the principles behind his trading system (which he makes easy) then you can master a good understanding of order flow in the markets.

Glad to see others on futures.io (formerly BMT) are discovering it.

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  #5 (permalink)
 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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@Big Mike

I'm typing this with thought before seeing the previous post

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IMHO, perhaps a good web guest?

-Bill_M

Full disclosure: I've no interest in said stuff

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  #6 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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An update on this from someone? Anyone use them? Other opinions?

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  #7 (permalink)
 vk79 
Michigan
 
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I have seen many trading rooms, educators etc full of deception, dishonesty over the years. After taking a trial, I am impressed with the way in which Mr. Shane teaches and trades everyday in his trading room.
The only reason I still haven't made up my mind is as I am addicted to Ninjatrader but Shane uses Sierracharts with his custom indicators.
Check out his Daily videos.

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  #8 (permalink)
emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
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vk79 View Post
I have seen many trading rooms, educators etc full of deception, dishonesty over the years. After taking a trial, I am impressed with the way in which Mr. Shane teaches and trades everyday in his trading room.
The only reason I still haven't made up my mind is as I am addicted to Ninjatrader but Shane uses Sierracharts with his custom indicators.

Check out his Daily videos.

I'm taking the trial now, and I have to agree with you and noodle's assessment. Shows his DOM, nothing hidden; trading NQ, QM and CL (although he is simming CL for now but trading the other two live). Doesn't charge extra for the indicators; is very knowledgable and a good profitable trader. All the info he provides about how to become a successful trader is very good also. And you can't beat $95 a month for the room. I'm very impressed. Obviously I am following him simming, but he was very profitable on Thursday and profitable today. I've simmed $630 in 'profit' the past two days (Thurs and Mon). And I've been trading a conservative approach taking smaller targets then he has. So far so good.

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  #9 (permalink)
 coolriverjoe 
Gallup NM USA
 
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I have been a member of Shane's room since the first of the year. Shane is very good with his ideas and principles of order flow but he does not know how to implement them in his trading. I believe all the rules that he tries to implement hinder his trading. I have taken every single CL trade that he has since January 27, 2015. I have taken a screen shot of the results. These are true trades live not SIM.


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  #10 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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coolriverjoe View Post
I have been a member of Shane's room since the first of the year. Shane is very good with his ideas and principles of order flow but he does not know how to implement them in his trading. I believe all the rules that he tries to implement hinder his trading. I have taken every single CL trade that he has since January 27, 2015. I have taken a screen shot of the results. These are true trades live not SIM.

..

here we always stretch find a style that works for you and other's method may not be suitable for you at all. That being said 4 months and only -600ish loss not bad, not bad at all.

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  #11 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
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cory View Post
here we always stretch find a style that works for you and other's method may not be suitable for you at all. That being said 4 months and only -600ish loss not bad, not bad at all.

you have a different idea of good results than me.
Sometimes I wonder how productive all this order flow watching is .
It must be able to be programmable and backtestable: so where are the results of that?

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  #12 (permalink)
 coolriverjoe 
Gallup NM USA
 
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Cory,

These are not my trades. These are Shane Handy's trades that I traded tick for tick. His method not mine or any other variation. So when you say "his method may not suite my style of trading or personality" does not apply here. I sat through each and every one of his sessions since January 27, 2015 and these are the trades he put on in his real live account.

Don't get me wrong, Shane is very sincere in trying to work order flow into his trading but I believe his implementing and execution need a lot of work. Shane goes for the big swings and I traded right along side him as instructed with real money. 59 trades were executed at a loss of -662.50 plus another 225.38 for commissions.

If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

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  #13 (permalink)
 MacroNinja 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
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cory View Post
here we always stretch find a style that works for you and other's method may not be suitable for you at all. That being said 4 months and only -600ish loss not bad, not bad at all.

I'd have to hazard a guess that's pretty bad for a performance benchmark since I could both work at McDonald's and go to Vegas with a the same or better results. That kind of result after 4 months would you fired at most prop firms I know.

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  #14 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
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coolriverjoe View Post
Cory,

These are not my trades. These are Shane Handy's trades that I traded tick for tick. His method not mine or any other variation. So when you say "his method may not suite my style of trading or personality" does not apply here. I sat through each and every one of his sessions since January 27, 2015 and these are the trades he put on in his real live account.

Don't get me wrong, Shane is very sincere in trying to work order flow into his trading but I believe his implementing and execution need a lot of work. Shane goes for the big swings and I traded right along side him as instructed with real money. 59 trades were executed at a loss of -662.50 plus another 225.38 for commissions.

If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

Are you sure there isnt some cognitive bias coming in. If the edge is genuine and substantial and someone understands it as you say Handy does then it doesnt make sense that he is loosing money?

I have spent a lot of time looking at orderflow and still can't see that it is that useful. Sure someone can playback and show you how bids come in here and such and such picking specific times when it seemed to follow a pattern- but at the hard right edge in real time does it make a difference (beyond a sudden tick or two up and down)..

these are sincere questions to you considering the months of experience you have had studying this.

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  #15 (permalink)
 Sazon 
Roswell, GA
 
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coolriverjoe View Post
If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

These two statements are a contradiction. If there was a real edge then one should be profitable after 4 months, plain and simple. Otherwise, as the other poster commented, the guy working the milkshake machine at Shake Shack has a better job.

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 coolriverjoe 
Gallup NM USA
 
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Forexoil View Post
Are you sure there isnt some cognitive bias coming in. If the edge is genuine and substantial and someone understands it as you say Handy does then it doesnt make sense that he is loosing money?

I have spent a lot of time looking at orderflow and still can't see that it is that useful. Sure someone can playback and show you how bids come in here and such and such picking specific times when it seemed to follow a pattern- but at the hard right edge in real time does it make a difference (beyond a sudden tick or two up and down)..

these are sincere questions to you considering the months of experience you have had studying this.

Forexoil, all I know is that these are the trades exactly as Shane Handy took them in the room live everyday since January 27, 2015. I mirrored his every move. Theory and Implementation are two different things.

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  #17 (permalink)
 coolriverjoe 
Gallup NM USA
 
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Sazon View Post
These two statements are a contradiction. If there was a real edge then one should be profitable after 4 months, plain and simple. Otherwise, as the other poster commented, the guy working the milkshake machine at Shake Shack has a better job.

Theory and Implementation are two different things.

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  #18 (permalink)
 Forexoil 
Bangkok thailand
 
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coolriverjoe View Post
Forexoil, all I know is that these are the trades exactly as Shane Handy took them in the room live everyday since January 27, 2015. I mirrored his every move. Theory and Implementation are two different things.

And I greatly appreciate your information about this

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  #19 (permalink)
 coolriverjoe 
Gallup NM USA
 
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Here is my summary of Shane Handy's trading site The Rational Trader. From January 27, 2015 to April 30, 2015, I have been in the trading room with Shane everyday and have taken every CL trade from Shane as instructed. I did not make any attempt to change the trades in anyway. I just followed exactly how Shane put on his trades. These trades are tick for tick live real trades with my personal money at risk. As instructed I traded a live "small account", small being $5000 in the QM contract which is the mini oil contract for a small account to take into account the wide fluctuations and swings for oil. Shane bases his trades off the movement of CL and incorporates that into QM to keep the risk to reward ratio the same for both CL and QM. Shane trades the same QM and small account in his live room so the results are near identical accept for a tick here or there for slippage on rear occasions. Shane recommended this approach because in his terms, you will only learn in real live situations with real money on the line.

In the four months of watching and three months of trading, Shane gives good sound reasoning in regards to order flow and what is going on in the market. As for implementing his theories and executing them, as I have stating before, there is a lot to be desired.

I have included my stats for the three months of trading. They are screen shots of my ninjatrader. They include, summary, trade by trade, and daily. There were 62 total trades in the three months. Broken down, there was 12 break evens, 14 winners, and 36 losers. The summary page shows 26 winners, but ninjatrader shows break evens as winners and not a tie. For the three months of trading with Shane, I am down -$362.50 in trading, -$236.84 in commissions, and -$285 in Shane's fees($95permonth room fee x 3 Months). So all toll in three months of trading along side Shane Handy, I am down -$884.34.


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  #20 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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-$884.34. for real live trading experience for the whole 3 months it's very good deal. I paid 6.5K for a course materials alone worthless experience.

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 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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Shane has a FREE webinar on using Zig Zag on price and Zig Zag Cumulative Volume for determining trend and order flow for entry


Quoting 
This is part two of a series. With the foundation set last week in part one we will now combine wave volume and order flow signals to make trade setups: wave volume gives us the direction; order flow gives us an entry.

First session of the two part series The Rational Trader

Second session 9-23-2015 1400ET

Register here The Rational Trader

-William

Full disclosure: I have no vested interest in the Rational Trader - I'm just passing info on to those that might be interested

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  #22 (permalink)
 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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Broker: Infinity
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Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
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I just received an email saying they are restructuring their pricing.

As of today the service is 95.00/ month and it's going to 247.00/ month or 597.00/ quarter.

He supplies proprietary studies for reading price action.

IIRC the live trading room is 0800amET to 12noonET M-F.

For more info visit his website

-William

Full disclosure - I have no vested interest in this service nor do I use it, I'm sharing information

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emini2000
Atlanta GA USA
 
 
Posts: 278 since Aug 2013
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You still following him? If so, how is it going now?



coolriverjoe View Post
Here is my summary of Shane Handy's trading site The Rational Trader. From January 27, 2015 to April 30, 2015, I have been in the trading room with Shane everyday and have taken every CL trade from Shane as instructed. I did not make any attempt to change the trades in anyway. I just followed exactly how Shane put on his trades. These trades are tick for tick live real trades with my personal money at risk. As instructed I traded a live "small account", small being $5000 in the QM contract which is the mini oil contract for a small account to take into account the wide fluctuations and swings for oil. Shane bases his trades off the movement of CL and incorporates that into QM to keep the risk to reward ratio the same for both CL and QM. Shane trades the same QM and small account in his live room so the results are near identical accept for a tick here or there for slippage on rear occasions. Shane recommended this approach because in his terms, you will only learn in real live situations with real money on the line.

In the four months of watching and three months of trading, Shane gives good sound reasoning in regards to order flow and what is going on in the market. As for implementing his theories and executing them, as I have stating before, there is a lot to be desired.

I have included my stats for the three months of trading. They are screen shots of my ninjatrader. They include, summary, trade by trade, and daily. There were 62 total trades in the three months. Broken down, there was 12 break evens, 14 winners, and 36 losers. The summary page shows 26 winners, but ninjatrader shows break evens as winners and not a tie. For the three months of trading with Shane, I am down -$362.50 in trading, -$236.84 in commissions, and -$285 in Shane's fees($95permonth room fee x 3 Months). So all toll in three months of trading along side Shane Handy, I am down -$884.34.



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 WilleeMac 
Prospect, KY. USA
 
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I got to thinking about this new price structure.

I stumbled on to TRT about this time a year ago and clearly remember him saying his price structure is based on helping folks learn to trade and how expensive other live trading rooms are, and how the common person starting out trading can't afford them.

Let's do some simple math. 30 folks are in the room at 100.00 each is 3000.00 month income. That same 30 folks is now 6000.00 month income.

I understand there's expense associated with this income etc.

I'm fairly certain there's more than 30 people in the room then and now. So is this about teaching or income ??

I started a thread in Sierra Chart about using Jeff Augen's standard deviation/ price spikes. If TRT interests you, this study may perhaps be of use, especially for the price.

And to think of it, eminiaddict (D Halsey) who has the same philosophy of helping folks learn to trade still has the same price per month - his live trading room is more than three/ four hours a day.

Anyway, food for thought

-William

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 OMWF 
Australia
 
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Has anyone used TRT in the last few years? All reports here seem to indicate a reasonably trusted set up, but one which is unable to generate profit. Is this still the case? Thanks.

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