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The Rational Trader trading room/ system
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The Rational Trader trading room/ system

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok thailand
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, ninjatrader, tradestation, fxcm
Favorite Futures: Es forex
 
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cory View Post
here we always stretch find a style that works for you and other's method may not be suitable for you at all. That being said 4 months and only -600ish loss not bad, not bad at all.

you have a different idea of good results than me.
Sometimes I wonder how productive all this order flow watching is .
It must be able to be programmable and backtestable: so where are the results of that?

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  #12 (permalink)
Elite Member
Gallup NM USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 17 since Sep 2014
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Cory,

These are not my trades. These are Shane Handy's trades that I traded tick for tick. His method not mine or any other variation. So when you say "his method may not suite my style of trading or personality" does not apply here. I sat through each and every one of his sessions since January 27, 2015 and these are the trades he put on in his real live account.

Don't get me wrong, Shane is very sincere in trying to work order flow into his trading but I believe his implementing and execution need a lot of work. Shane goes for the big swings and I traded right along side him as instructed with real money. 59 trades were executed at a loss of -662.50 plus another 225.38 for commissions.

If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

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  #13 (permalink)
Elite Member
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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cory View Post
here we always stretch find a style that works for you and other's method may not be suitable for you at all. That being said 4 months and only -600ish loss not bad, not bad at all.

I'd have to hazard a guess that's pretty bad for a performance benchmark since I could both work at McDonald's and go to Vegas with a the same or better results. That kind of result after 4 months would you fired at most prop firms I know.

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  #14 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok thailand
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, ninjatrader, tradestation, fxcm
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coolriverjoe View Post
Cory,

These are not my trades. These are Shane Handy's trades that I traded tick for tick. His method not mine or any other variation. So when you say "his method may not suite my style of trading or personality" does not apply here. I sat through each and every one of his sessions since January 27, 2015 and these are the trades he put on in his real live account.

Don't get me wrong, Shane is very sincere in trying to work order flow into his trading but I believe his implementing and execution need a lot of work. Shane goes for the big swings and I traded right along side him as instructed with real money. 59 trades were executed at a loss of -662.50 plus another 225.38 for commissions.

If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

Are you sure there isnt some cognitive bias coming in. If the edge is genuine and substantial and someone understands it as you say Handy does then it doesnt make sense that he is loosing money?

I have spent a lot of time looking at orderflow and still can't see that it is that useful. Sure someone can playback and show you how bids come in here and such and such picking specific times when it seemed to follow a pattern- but at the hard right edge in real time does it make a difference (beyond a sudden tick or two up and down)..

these are sincere questions to you considering the months of experience you have had studying this.

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  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
Roswell, GA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
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coolriverjoe View Post
If you want to learn about order flow and how the market works in that way, there is probably not a better source of information than Shane. But as for execution, there is something left to be desired.

These two statements are a contradiction. If there was a real edge then one should be profitable after 4 months, plain and simple. Otherwise, as the other poster commented, the guy working the milkshake machine at Shake Shack has a better job.

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  #16 (permalink)
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Gallup NM USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Forexoil View Post
Are you sure there isnt some cognitive bias coming in. If the edge is genuine and substantial and someone understands it as you say Handy does then it doesnt make sense that he is loosing money?

I have spent a lot of time looking at orderflow and still can't see that it is that useful. Sure someone can playback and show you how bids come in here and such and such picking specific times when it seemed to follow a pattern- but at the hard right edge in real time does it make a difference (beyond a sudden tick or two up and down)..

these are sincere questions to you considering the months of experience you have had studying this.

Forexoil, all I know is that these are the trades exactly as Shane Handy took them in the room live everyday since January 27, 2015. I mirrored his every move. Theory and Implementation are two different things.

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  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
Gallup NM USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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Posts: 17 since Sep 2014
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Sazon View Post
These two statements are a contradiction. If there was a real edge then one should be profitable after 4 months, plain and simple. Otherwise, as the other poster commented, the guy working the milkshake machine at Shake Shack has a better job.

Theory and Implementation are two different things.

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  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Bangkok thailand
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, ninjatrader, tradestation, fxcm
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Posts: 116 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 128 given, 59 received


coolriverjoe View Post
Forexoil, all I know is that these are the trades exactly as Shane Handy took them in the room live everyday since January 27, 2015. I mirrored his every move. Theory and Implementation are two different things.

And I greatly appreciate your information about this

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  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Gallup NM USA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: Treasuries, Emini ES
 
Posts: 17 since Sep 2014
Thanks: 0 given, 12 received

Here is my summary of Shane Handy's trading site The Rational Trader. From January 27, 2015 to April 30, 2015, I have been in the trading room with Shane everyday and have taken every CL trade from Shane as instructed. I did not make any attempt to change the trades in anyway. I just followed exactly how Shane put on his trades. These trades are tick for tick live real trades with my personal money at risk. As instructed I traded a live "small account", small being $5000 in the QM contract which is the mini oil contract for a small account to take into account the wide fluctuations and swings for oil. Shane bases his trades off the movement of CL and incorporates that into QM to keep the risk to reward ratio the same for both CL and QM. Shane trades the same QM and small account in his live room so the results are near identical accept for a tick here or there for slippage on rear occasions. Shane recommended this approach because in his terms, you will only learn in real live situations with real money on the line.

In the four months of watching and three months of trading, Shane gives good sound reasoning in regards to order flow and what is going on in the market. As for implementing his theories and executing them, as I have stating before, there is a lot to be desired.

I have included my stats for the three months of trading. They are screen shots of my ninjatrader. They include, summary, trade by trade, and daily. There were 62 total trades in the three months. Broken down, there was 12 break evens, 14 winners, and 36 losers. The summary page shows 26 winners, but ninjatrader shows break evens as winners and not a tie. For the three months of trading with Shane, I am down -$362.50 in trading, -$236.84 in commissions, and -$285 in Shane's fees($95permonth room fee x 3 Months). So all toll in three months of trading along side Shane Handy, I am down -$884.34.

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The Rational Trader trading room/ system-shanehandy2015.jpg   The Rational Trader trading room/ system-shanehandy2015a.jpg   The Rational Trader trading room/ system-shanehandy2015b.jpg   The Rational Trader trading room/ system-shanehandydailybreakdown.jpg  
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  #20 (permalink)
Market Wizard
virginia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
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-$884.34. for real live trading experience for the whole 3 months it's very good deal. I paid 6.5K for a course materials alone worthless experience.

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