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Firms that train you and let you trade part time?


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Firms that train you and let you trade part time?

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  #1 (permalink)
apextc
chicago
 
 
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New to the world of trading (options specifically ) using Think or Swim for under 2 years. Progress: Learning and doing OK - I still need to learn more of everything from greeks, lingo to eventually making this residual income.

Question: Who can give me some names of companies that train you and eventually let you trade with their capital?


I searched and came across mainstreetamerica.com where they take $800 to train you then give you a test where after you pass you can trade (options, forex, futures, stocks) and start with a $100k account. Split is 65-35 after you keep the first $4k profit. Its meant to be done part time like 2 hours in the morning or night.

ps - ive searched this forum and being a tech geek just couldnt see a post like this.

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  #3 (permalink)
 josh 
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You should never ever pay a firm to "train you" ... Also, they don't give you 100K. Their margin requirement for that is tiny, a fraction of that and they pay for it with the income they receive from other $800 per pop applicants who don't make it. Stay away IMO.

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  #4 (permalink)
 treydog999 
seoul, Korea
 
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Usually these are trading arcades or grinders imho. they take you in for a few hundred. May let you trade their capital or your own capital with some fees attached. Eventually waiting for you to fail their rules and fire you or if you have your own capital to blow out and they net the fees. Its a pretty cut and dry rotational business. I agree stay away. If you really want to work in the industry, start applying with legit firms for internships or entry level jobs. Maybe get back to school to get your resume and education in order. these types of shops will never lead you to the big boy path, as real institutional investing is not what they do as a business model. Rather they make money from fees, desk rental/IT service, kick back from commissions, and just wait for you to be replaced by the next guy.

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  #5 (permalink)
apextc
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Josh and Treydogg - thank you for your responses, i sincerely appreciate it.

My current status : I'm 35, and a management consultant making just north of six figures but have a terrible work life balance and I have limited personal capital. I want to use trading as residual / additional income and I am willing to put in the time to study, understand and put in the effort to do this part time for now. As I see other traders on this forum making $500-1000 a day, if and when that day comes for me I will for sure think of making this as a full time role.

So the question then comes down to: How can I learn as much as I can and then perhaps for someone part time till I get my own capital?

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  #6 (permalink)
 treydog999 
seoul, Korea
 
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apextc View Post
Josh and Treydogg - thank you for your responses, i sincerely appreciate it.

My current status : I'm 35, and a management consultant making just north of six figures but have a terrible work life balance and I have limited personal capital. I want to use trading as residual / additional income and I am willing to put in the time to study, understand and put in the effort to do this part time for now. As I see other traders on this forum making $500-1000 a day, if and when that day comes for me I will for sure think of making this as a full time role.

So the question then comes down to: How can I learn as much as I can and then perhaps for someone part time till I get my own capital?

Honestly joining this forum was a great first step. Just learn as much as you can by asking questions, reading books, watching the webinars and just being active in the community here. You can begin to develop yourself as a trader and trade some simulation while you figure out what kind of trader you are and what kind of trader you want to be. Its a long road and a very personal discovery process. Also this will give you time to save up your risk capital. But welcome and I hope to see you grow in your time here.

Just beware, don't come into trading for the wrong reasons. You really need to evaluate if you want to pursue this further, especially if you have a family to take care of. A 6 figure consistent salary is not something to dismiss off hand. Really consider if the ups and downs of having trading be your main source of income is something you can stomach.

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  #7 (permalink)
apextc
chicago
 
 
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treydog999 View Post
.

Just beware, don't come into trading for the wrong reasons. You really need to evaluate if you want to pursue this further, especially if you have a family to take care of. A 6 figure consistent salary is not something to dismiss off hand. Really consider if the ups and downs of having trading be your main source of income is something you can stomach.

thank you Trey. i really really appreciate the gesture and response. For me the eventual goal is to use trading as a supplement to my income. The biggest lesson I have learned is risk management, to say to my soul that today I will not trade a penny more if I lose $500 (in virtual money of course). This is a marathon and not a sprint and this forum has tons and tons of materials.

Now that I the basics of what I like to trade - options and futures - do you know of any good bible or starting point? I'll do my own search here but any direction from your end will just help me.

Again, thank you!

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  #8 (permalink)
 treydog999 
seoul, Korea
 
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Personally I am an algorithmic trader for the most part. I do have a discretionary system as well but thats more of a side project. I would start with kevin daveys materials for algo development. Ft71 has good stuff for volume profile discretion based trading. All in the webinar section.

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  #9 (permalink)
 futurestrader1 
New York City, USA
 
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apextc View Post
Josh and Treydogg - thank you for your responses, i sincerely appreciate it.

My current status : I'm 35, and a management consultant making just north of six figures but have a terrible work life balance and I have limited personal capital. I want to use trading as residual / additional income and I am willing to put in the time to study, understand and put in the effort to do this part time for now. As I see other traders on this forum making $500-1000 a day, if and when that day comes for me I will for sure think of making this as a full time role.

So the question then comes down to: How can I learn as much as I can and then perhaps for someone part time till I get my own capital?


How can you make north of a 6 figure salary (+$100,000) per year and not have your own capital? Just curious as to the amount of savings one has in making such a salary!

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  #10 (permalink)
 Jack22 
Washington DC
 
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futurestrader1 View Post
How can you make north of a 6 figure salary (+$100,000) per year and not have your own capital? Just curious as to the amount of savings one has in making such a salary!

Seriously--please bigger font. That is extremely easy to save $0 every single month. Undergrad and graduate completely paid by the student with loans and then living in a city like NY, DC, San Francisco would easily leave you with almost no money to go out if you wanted to live in a half way decent apartment, own a half way reliable car and then dress as required by your profession/clients. After I graduated from undergrad, I paid all of my student loans, needed a loan for a car (not an extravagant loan either), and lived in the DC area--I didn't want to live in a rat trap, so after all of those expenses, including paying for the appropriate clothing, I did not start saving money until I was over 100 (I do not have a graduate degree, so that would put me even further north of 100K if I did until I started saving). Unless you want to live in a terrible place or live 2+ hours from your client/job, there is no way people can afford to live in certain areas for less than 100K (assuming they paid for their own education).

To the real question, @apextc, read as much free stuff on this forum and I would suggest some of the most popular trading books (see what Fat Tails suggests--I have read them all and suggest his list). After that, study charts for many, many hours (no specific number--until you are comfortable....comfortable means you can look at a chart and everything comes to you like muscle memory for a quarterback). If you are studying historical charts, then you have an added layer of studying charts in real time/trading sim in real time while you build your starting capital. For me, things that helped me when I went live was to look @ everything in ticks/points instead of dollars. Do not over leverage yourself--you will surely fail. If you go on a losing streak and feel yourself getting depressed/making really bad decisions, take at least a week or two off--I wasn't able to mentally change my mindset the next day if I was on a losing streak (either too much money lost or too many days lost), I needed at least 2 weeks to get my mind right before trading again (each person is different).

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  #11 (permalink)
 mpo7 
Winnipeg, MB , Canada
 
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Topsteptrader.com If you pass there test then they give you a shot to become funded with them. I believe they also have mentors and education courses. If you have some extra spending money i would recommend trying a mentor to psychologically put you in the right path . Also those people that you mentioned that are making 500-1000 a day consistently. Guaranteed they put in the ''10,000 screen hours rule'' to get where they are. It sure is a marathon my friend!

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  #12 (permalink)
 Scalpingtrader 
Hanover, Germany
 
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By now, even though I dont think that they are not optimal for the actual funding-part of the equation, I highly recommend the Topsteptrader combines to you as well.
Choose a small one, no greater than the 50k combine and learn through trading it.

I, partly through own experience, came to believe that this is the cheapest way of learning to trade while still being exposed to the market in a relatively "honest" way.

But that's only my own experience, one of a not-quite but hopefully soon consistent trader I might add.

Good luck for you!

ST

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  #13 (permalink)
apextc
chicago
 
 
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futurestrader1 View Post
How can you make north of a 6 figure salary (+$100,000) per year and not have your own capital? Just curious as to the amount of savings one has in making such a salary!

To answer your curiosity (specifics not important). I grew up in a third world country where all I knew about America was what I saw on Hollywood, MTV, HBO and sitcoms like Saved By the Bell or shows like Dynasty and Colombo. I arrive when Im 18 and fell into consumerism - spend more than what you have, you live only once, get a college loan and get the best education while staying in the best dorm, buy a car when you graduate, live the American dream.

In summary, without much guidance from anyone it all added up where I ended up in 140K of debt and have bought that down to 30K in 5 years. I was a loan officer at one point and 90% of the applications I processed had very poor savings habits.

Its a long answer but I wanted to address the fact that regardless of what anyone makes, big/small city or best job in the world, without education , guidance and calculated risks - NO one can succeed financially.

Truth be told I make close to $140k and I would not spend a DIME in the stock market till i make sure i either have a healthy risk:reward ratio and control over my emotions. I picked up trading as a journey to financial freedom in the long run or to make residual income. I am grateful for my job and can always and humbly stay at this level but the thrill of being independant and knowing that others have done it in capital markets, thats enough to make me be sponge and absorb as much as i can from these forums.

thanks for your question.

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  #14 (permalink)
apextc
chicago
 
 
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Jack22 View Post
To the real question, @apextc, read as much free stuff on this forum and I would suggest some of the most popular trading books (see what Fat Tails suggests--I have read them all and suggest his list). After that, study charts for many, many hours (no specific number--until you are comfortable....comfortable means you can look at a chart and everything comes to you like muscle memory for a quarterback). If you are studying historical charts, then you have an added layer of studying charts in real time/trading sim in real time while you build your starting capital. For me, things that helped me when I went live was to look @ everything in ticks/points instead of dollars. Do not over leverage yourself--you will surely fail. If you go on a losing streak and feel yourself getting depressed/making really bad decisions, take at least a week or two off--I wasn't able to mentally change my mindset the next day if I was on a losing streak (either too much money lost or too many days lost), I needed at least 2 weeks to get my mind right before trading again (each person is different).

thank you Jack for the response. Sincerely appreciated. Pardon my ignorance in advance but please help clarify

"and I would suggest some of the most popular trading books (see what Fat Tails suggests--I have read them all and suggest his list)"

I got kevin davey's book last night- so far so great !

again, thank you!

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  #15 (permalink)
 Jack22 
Washington DC
 
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apextc View Post
thank you Jack for the response. Sincerely appreciated. Pardon my ignorance in advance but please help clarify

"and I would suggest some of the most popular trading books (see what Fat Tails suggests--I have read them all and suggest his list)"

I got kevin davey's book last night- so far so great !

again, thank you!

Here you go: https://futures.io/33644-post97.html

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  #16 (permalink)
 hectormas 
Charlotte, NC
 
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Apextc,

I believe you are on the right path, asking the right questions. In my opinion, you don't need a trading firm to train you, or a mentor that will charge you thousands. I spent quite a bit of money early on, and what I learn is that the VERY BEST material is FREE, or almost free.

Here are some recommendations.

- Spend quite a bit of time on this forum and you will find some great advice and resources. Read posts by Josh, Tigertrader, BigMike, Fat Tails.

- Watch webinars by FT72 and Albrooks (in my opinion some of the best).

- Al Brooks has a great video course, very affordable. It was instrumental in my learning to read Price Action

- Tastytrade: Great videos on how to trade options

- SPEND a lot of TIME learning and trading. I also work full time, have a family (small children) and a social life. But I get up at 3 am to trade the European session (DAX) and spend time on Sunday 6 to 10 am analyzing weekly charts for my swing trades. Think of this long term. 10 / 20 / 30 years.

As far as prop firms, I dont really know any. In the past I was curious and looked into topstep, but I did the math and the %return you must have to make it is quite high. There maybe other benefits to joining a prop firm, but it wasn't for me.

Thanks

Hector

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  #17 (permalink)
 xiaosi 
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
 
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futurestrader1 View Post
How can you make north of a 6 figure salary (+$100,000) per year and not have your own capital? Just curious as to the amount of savings one has in making such a salary!

Half the bloody middle class is like that in Australia....mate.

Most of the capital is in the home, the rest is going towards expences.

It took me until i was 40 to be debt free and worth something decent in net asset terms.

There must be Prop Shops in the windy city that take in greenies, give it a go @apextc!

There was a list of Prop shops kicking around a while ago....

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apextc
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hectormas View Post
Apextc,

I believe you are on the right path, asking the right questions. In my opinion, you don't need a trading firm to train you, or a mentor that will charge you thousands. I spent quite a bit of money early on, and what I learn is that the VERY BEST material is FREE, or almost free.

Here are some recommendations.

- Spend quite a bit of time on this forum and you will find some great advice and resources. Read posts by Josh, Tigertrader, BigMike, Fat Tails.

- Watch webinars by FT72 and Albrooks (in my opinion some of the best).

- Al Brooks has a great video course, very affordable. It was instrumental in my learning to read Price Action

- Tastytrade: Great videos on how to trade options

- SPEND a lot of TIME learning and trading. I also work full time, have a family (small children) and a social life. But I get up at 3 am to trade the European session (DAX) and spend time on Sunday 6 to 10 am analyzing weekly charts for my swing trades. Think of this long term. 10 / 20 / 30 years.

As far as prop firms, I dont really know any. In the past I was curious and looked into topstep, but I did the math and the %return you must have to make it is quite high. There maybe other benefits to joining a prop firm, but it wasn't for me.

Thanks

Hector

thanks for the response, much appreciated.

Im reading thru the forums to figure out the most recommended software for futures and NINJATRADER seems to be a favorite. That being said those threads are from 2012.... any input would help me since I've been searching for a while now.

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  #19 (permalink)
 Scalpingtrader 
Hanover, Germany
 
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apextc View Post
thanks for the response, much appreciated.

Im reading thru the forums to figure out the most recommended software for futures and NINJATRADER seems to be a favorite. That being said those threads are from 2012.... any input would help me since I've been searching for a while now.

Best way to learn which you like best is to try them - I believe the most favorite here are both ninjatrader and sierracharts.

There should be demos for both available with a bunch of brokers.

PS: if you want a broker that does a bit more than just put your trades through, look at @mattz from Optimus and stage5trading from @ft71.

Both are very reputable persons from what I can tell & offer great service.

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 CobblersAwls 
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A Question: If you are a management consultant, why not consider paving the way to setup your own consultancy firm? You probably know a lot more about that field than you do trading and the risk of success is probably equal. In fact trading is probably more risky in terms of failure probability.

Having said that, this is a great place to learn and I hope you succeed. Read all the intro stuff, become an elite member and access the fantastic webinars and soak up information. Learn what style suits your personality (day trader/swing trader) and start saving a small amount each month to put towards trading eventually. It will take you a long time and is not easy (trust me I'm still learning after 3 years) but coming here has probably saved you 1 year lost searching hopelessly.

Research Auction Market theory / Market Profile / Volume Profile to grasp the core concepts of why markets move.

Build up your own ideas of what could happen if X/Y/Z occurs based on these core concepts.

Add techniques/methods to define good entry and exit points.

Understand risk and risk management and apply it to everything you now know.

GL

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  #21 (permalink)
apextc
chicago
 
 
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CobblersAwls View Post
A Question: If you are a management consultant, why not consider paving the way to setup your own consultancy firm? You probably know a lot more about that field than you do trading and the risk of success is probably equal. In fact trading is probably more risky in terms of failure probability.

This is a great idea and I am working on it. The advantages of being an independent management consultant are great but the future of this industry is getting brutal. Our firm (a top 5 firm from this list I cant reveal - McKinsey, Deloitte, Ernst& Young, Bain, Accenture are hiring fresh grads out of college ages 22-25 and paying them 20% less than us) which is approximately $70-$90K BASE and grooming them to do our jobs for half the cost. If I go independent I can surely do OK for myself but the main pro's of trading in my opinion is the journey in learning and the fact that once you are comfortable in succeeding - I can use this as a supplement to my income. My goal to trade and embark on this journey is to create a supplemental income and along the way if, and only if I get to a point where I can afford to go full time - then it will be a blessing from the divine.

Having said that, this is a great place to learn and I hope you succeed. Read all the intro stuff, become an elite member and access the fantastic webinars and soak up information. Learn what style suits your personality (day trader/swing trader) and start saving a small amount each month to put towards trading eventually. It will take you a long time and is not easy (trust me I'm still learning after 3 years) but coming here has probably saved you 1 year lost searching hopelessly.

Research Auction Market theory / Market Profile / Volume Profile to grasp the core concepts of why markets move.

Build up your own ideas of what could happen if X/Y/Z occurs based on these core concepts.

Add techniques/methods to define good entry and exit points.

Understand risk and risk management and apply it to everything you now know.

I appreciate all your suggestions, i really do. I pretty much have the next 3 weeks to myself and at this point beyond reading I am looking for an actual live mentor - skype, phone, local to Chicago, anything to learn. I once stood outside the Chicago Board of Trade looking for a mentor just to show me how options work, it turned out I made a great friend who made good money and changed personalities. The best to him for giving what he could for me but options and futures are 2 different animals I want to tame on my own pace.

Again, thanks for your response.


GL

.

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  #22 (permalink)
 shodson 
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Echoing other's sentiments, avoid proprietary trading firms, most are not worth it. The experience can be useful and educational but it will probably be very expensive.

Instead of trying to figure out how to get a large bankroll, start small, like $5k or $10k. Then, set realistic expectations about how much you can make with that. Next, get some education and start trading with very small amounts. Experience is the best teacher and can teach you things no book or educator can teach you. You will learn more about yourself than you may have imagined.

By keeping your risks small you'll increase the odds of not blowing up your account and you will be able to keep learning. You will not make a lot of money quickly, but you will be on your path to becoming the trader you hope to be. It will probably take years. Sorry, you just have to accept that.

You will still have to keep your day job, but you'll be adding to your experience which will become valuable over time as you come across (attract) more capital.

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