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Quantsports, Ninjatrader and Betfair


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Quantsports, Ninjatrader and Betfair

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  #1 (permalink)
 Aussielad 
Sydney
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
 
Posts: 17 since Mar 2010
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This company, Quantsports.co.uk has managed to intergrate the API of Betfair with Ninjatrader. They seem to be first people who have done this.

Now people who trade sporting markets with Betfair can now use Ninjatrader to chart these markets.

Still testing this product out, and will give an update in the near future.

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  #3 (permalink)
m0n0xide
Romania
 
 
Posts: 6 since Sep 2010
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I have bought the Qunatsports software! It's quite good. Now all i have to do is implement a strategy. That's the hard part.

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  #4 (permalink)
m0n0xide
Romania
 
 
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Does anybody else trade on Betfair? If you do pls share your strategy!

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  #5 (permalink)
 Chris23 
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Hi
You can use the TRIX indicator to see if the price go up or down and if go through the zero for price confirmation
Also the squeeze indicator is really good.

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  #6 (permalink)
m0n0xide
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Chris23 View Post
Hi
You can use the TRIX indicator to see if the price go up or down and if go through the zero for price confirmation
Also the squeeze indicator is really good.


Hi! Did you mean the BBSqueeze indicator?

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  #7 (permalink)
 Chris23 
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yes RSsquezze (BBsquezze)

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  #8 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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It is possible to replace the candle sticks with horses, so you can watch them in real-time and get out if one of them stumbles?

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  #9 (permalink)
QuantSports
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Fat Tails View Post
It is possible to replace the candle sticks with horses, so you can watch them in real-time and get out if one of them stumbles?

Do you need a bespoke solution? I can cater to any horse related fetish.

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  #10 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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QuantSports View Post
Do you need a bespoke solution? I can cater to any horse related fetish.

Thanks very much for the suggestion. I am not into horse fetishes.

I just felt a bit unsure, whether conventional trading tools can be applied to horses. Saw the Gom Volume Ladder on the QuantSports video and was wondering, what the horse does with the ladder. The relative strength index, spikes, troughs, head and shoulders, everything gets a new meaning. And you definitely should not bet on any moving average.

But then I must acknowledge that the Heikin Ashi chart already looks like a horse mane, racing over Welles Wilder's parabolic SAR. Very British, indeed.

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  #11 (permalink)
QuantSports
United Kingdom
 
 
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Fat Tails View Post
Thanks very much for the suggestion. I am not into horse fetishes.

I just felt a bit unsure, whether conventional trading tools can be applied to horses. Saw the Gom Volume Ladder on the QuantSports video and was wondering, what the horse does with the ladder. The relative strength index, spikes, troughs, head and shoulders, everything gets a new meaning. And you definitely should not bet on any moving average.

But then I must acknowledge that the Heikin Ashi chart already looks like a horse mane, racing over Welles Wilder's parabolic SAR. Very British, indeed.

I think you might have slightly misunderstood, but that's entirely understandable for someone unfamiliar with the betting exchanges. Pre-event sports trading does not require knowledge of the actual event, just the price. A lot like in some forms of futures trading; trading is entirely market profile based.

Fundamental analysis is used by the traditional bettor who does not seek to trade the hypothetical probability of an outcome happening.

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  #12 (permalink)
 Fat Tails 
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QuantSports View Post
I think you might have slightly misunderstood, but that's entirely understandable for someone unfamiliar with the betting exchanges. Pre-event sports trading does not require knowledge of the actual event, just the price. A lot like in some forms of futures trading; trading is entirely market profile based.

Fundamental analysis is used by the traditional bettor who does not seek to trade the hypothetical probability of an outcome happening.

Thanks for pointing to this. If I misunderstood anything, it was a bit on purpose. I am not following any horse races, although I know that some people use sophisticated mathematical models to do arbitrage between different types of bets. NinjaTrader does not allow for executing spreads, so your customers are limited to directional bets, and commission and bid/ask can only be earned once.

How is this marketplace regulated? I would not trade on many FOREX retail platforms, and I have no confidence in instruments like CFDs. I am not afraid of futures and options, but I might be afraid of horse betting,

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  #13 (permalink)
QuantSports
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Fat Tails View Post
Thanks for pointing to this. If I misunderstood anything, it was a bit on purpose. I am not following any horse races, although I know that some people use sophisticated mathematical models to do arbitrage between different types of bets. NinjaTrader does not allow for executing spreads, so your customers are limited to directional bets, and commission and bid/ask can only be earned once.

How is this marketplace regulated? I would not trade on many FOREX retail platforms, and I have no confidence in instruments like CFDs. I am not afraid of futures and options, but I might be afraid of horse betting,

This has nothing to do with arbitrage (something that doesn't exist on the betting exchanges). The analysis is meant to be used in conjunction with other Betfair trading platforms (that can execute spreads several times over). The markets are very similar to futures (in the sense that you are buying or selling a bet with an implied % chance of a future event happening) just on an incredibly short time-frame (for a trader the market only is active for about 10 minutes, though for scalping it could be lower than 5 minutes).

The markets aren't regulated (at all), it's just the respective sporting bodies which investigate match fixing and I believe Betfair co-operate with them. Some in-play markets are managed. Spread is entirely natural but is subject to incremental pricing. Commission is only on winnings. It's a closed market and Betfair just provide a platform, nothing like retail brokers. So in case you are wondering, there is a lot of insider trading and market manipulation

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  #14 (permalink)
LuckyYou
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I am Very Very HAPPY Forex Gurus doesn't have an idea what Betfair Trading means!

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  #15 (permalink)
 TheSeeker 
Germany
 
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QuantSports View Post
I think you might have slightly misunderstood, but that's entirely understandable for someone unfamiliar with the betting exchanges. Pre-event sports trading does not require knowledge of the actual event, just the price. A lot like in some forms of futures trading; trading is entirely market profile based.

Fundamental analysis is used by the traditional bettor who does not seek to trade the hypothetical probability of an outcome happening.



What is the average price range of a bet intraday ? Can one only trade before the beginning of the event or also during the sports event ?

Very interesting stuff !

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  #16 (permalink)
3virgul14
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Chris23 View Post
Hi
You can use the TRIX indicator to see if the price go up or down and if go through the zero for price confirmation
Also the squeeze indicator is really good.

Hi Chris,

I am also trying to study Betfair markets on NT.

Could you send me these two indicators, TRIX and Squeeze.

I have NT 6.5..

How have you been doing ? Any significant success on Betfair ? I would appreciate if you can give some hints..

Thanks.

Best,


Alessandro

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  #17 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
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Do you tjink to develop API also for Multicharts?
This site there are different comparison.
Interesting
https://www.tradinggraphs.com/software/charts-software/22-betfair-trading-software-comparison-bfexplorer-pro-vs-betangel-pro-video

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  #18 (permalink)
 Chris23 
Liege
 
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Posts: 9 since Aug 2010
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Hi 3virgul14 , no i dont trade betfair anymore i am now on forex because there is to less volumes on a betfair market thats why some traders who come in with 10.000k or more can easily manipulate the price. Secondly, each market trading is less than 5 minutes => all the indicators take some times to appear because you need some historical price for them to work properly. But if you want to take a try here is the RSsqueezze.
NB. - Dont trade in play
- Prefer trading market between price range 2-4

Attached Files
Register to download File Type: zip RSqueeze.zip (21.8 KB, 37 views)
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  #19 (permalink)
 Family Trader 
Palm Beach County
 
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Unfortunately, this is useless information to US based traders as Betfair is illegal in the US.


Trader

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  #20 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
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COuld post any kind of strategy trading about betfair please?
What are the difference from trading financial instrument?

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  #21 (permalink)
 uexkuell 
Pt Vala
 
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Please realize what the betting industry is about:
It's a globalized multi-billion dollar industry.

(And therefore it is much like Forex and other financial markets.)

See Hong Kong Jockey Club - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In 2002–2003, the betting turnover was HK$71 billion"

Therefore you can be sure that there are no simple recipes (like "buy when above moving average") that make you a winner.
Also simple arbitrage strategies don't work in this area because all shops are connected.
Don't assume they are just dumb bucket shops.

Furthermore it might be helpful to keep in mind that betting is widely used for money laundering.
You can be sure that the people that keep up businesses which need such services don't leave too many holes to let over people live of their "work".

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  #22 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
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uexkuell View Post
Therefore you can be sure that there are no simple recipes (like "buy when above moving average") that make you a winner.
Also simple arbitrage strategies don't work in this area because all shops are connected.
Don't assume they are just dumb bucket shops.

Furthermore it might be helpful to keep in mind that betting is widely used for money laundering.
You can be sure that the people that keep up businesses which need such services don't leave too many holes to let over people live of their "work".

SO all retail betting are losing money, like the 95% of the retail trader?
So as you write..." there are not simple recipes (like "buy when above moving average") that make you a winner" what kind or recipes...
I don't assume that are dumb bucket shop but I think the could be a key to win money from them?
I don't know about laundering and betting and how this concert with trading, please what so you mean?
SO what is their business take monet from the trader and poor user?

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  #23 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
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Posts: 240 since Nov 2010
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QuantSports View Post
I think you might have slightly misunderstood, but that's entirely understandable for someone unfamiliar with the betting exchanges. Pre-event sports trading does not require knowledge of the actual event, just the price. A lot like in some forms of futures trading; trading is entirely market profile based.

Fundamental analysis is used by the traditional bettor who does not seek to trade the hypothetical probability of an outcome happening.

Hi quantSports,
I see your 3 video about built creating a winning strategy about betting.

COuld you please post here a concrete strategy to share with other?

Will you develop also connection to Multicharts?

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  #24 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
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Platform: MultiCharts
 
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Fat Tails View Post
Saw the Gom Volume Ladder on the QuantSports video and was wondering, what the horse does with the ladder.

How do you do this? WHat exatly do the horse?


Fat Tails View Post
. The relative strength index, spikes, troughs, head and shoulders, everything gets a new meaning. And you definitely should not bet on any moving average.

I use moving avere i find to trade well. Why you don't find good?



Fat Tails View Post
But then I must acknowledge that the Heikin Ashi chart already looks like a horse mane, racing over Welles Wilder's parabolic SAR. Very British, indeed.

Please explain and post anyimage or videos.

Anyway Fatails I see that you are you are good in statistic, could you post any results to make a system on Betting?

For Quantsports:
why is not possible send automatic order to betfair?
Are you built a module software to send automatic order to the Betfair exchange?

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  #25 (permalink)
3virgul14
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Posts: 4 since Jul 2011
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For a while, I was trying like most popular indicators existing around.

It is hard to say they are useful, market is mainly pushed by weight of money, and sudden steamers or drifters, not all the time though.

If all the players are exact size, like 500 stakes, it could work. But when the public money or giant bookie bets come in to the market, the balance changes very quickly. At that point indicators are not able to help..

So, all in all, it comes to the race selection..

It would be hard to create a winning strategy with technical analysis in the long run..

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  #26 (permalink)
 bomberone1 
London
 
Experience: Beginner
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3virgul14 View Post
If all the players are exact size, like 500 stakes, it could work. But when the public money or giant bookie bets come in to the market, the balance changes very quickly. At that point indicators are not able to help..

So following what you are saying volume analisys and market delta, volume delta are our best chance to win in the betting exchange?

I am without experience in this field, hav you tried something that's works?

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