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Rande Howell's Material Psychology (www.tradersstateofmind.com)


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Rande Howell's Material Psychology (www.tradersstateofmind.com)

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  #21 (permalink)
 rahulgopi 
milpitas, ca, usa
 
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jgomez74 View Post
Hello Rahul

Hoping you are enjoying a very happy Christmas and holidays along with your family.

Talking about my system, I have a lot of confidence on it. I also keep an excel spreadsheet with statistics of almost two years on how the markets move and the probabilities for these moves according to my strategies and setups. In fact, I keep writing the statistics day after day as part of my daily activities of the analysis I perform after trading hours.

All this has allowed me to master my trading skills while trading on SIM.

What I think is that I still do not trust or I still do not have enough confidence of my execution of the system while trading live, because of emotional arousal that turn out into physical sensations like sudden increase in the heart beat rate, sensations on my throat, stomach, chest and even headaches sometimes when my trade is taking too long.

As Mark Douglas classifies the trading styles in mechanic, discretionary and intutive, I will say that my system is a discretionary one. So, in the system we analyze how the market is moving and how we think it will move next in order to enter the trades, more than entering a trade because of a mechanical setup.

When I am trading on SIM, I even take higher risks setting a larger stop loss and letting the maret makes their moves before going to my target and most of the times they work out. Whereas, when I am trading live, I trade more not to lose than to win, since I also try to diminsh the risks as much as possible and many times not allowing the market to complete their moves before taking off into the direction of the trade I entered.

Although I also have to admit, that even trading on SIM, my ego sometimes enters into scene and I sometimes get frustrated when things do not work out right away the way I planned.

I know that Rande ties the thoughts to archetypes and in that way he classifies the core beliefs we have and that the essential part is to strengthen the Warrior, the Sage, the Ruler, the Magician and to convert the immature Orpahn into a mature one.

The thing that I still do not know is which would be the best way exactly on how to strengthen those needed archetypes in order to form the proper trading committee, so that the inner critic and the adapted voice do not take the main seats on the trading committee?

Jorge

Jorge,
I want to apologize if I sound judgmental in any part of the below post. Reading you, I have been thru and still going thru lot of things you mentioned, these comments are from my own experience.

Jorge, you intellectually know the process in out in your head. From what you wrote, I can see that you thoroughly studied the material and have a very good understanding of the process. What we need is to know it by experience , have it in your experience, so that the knowing is complete and the change will be more profound and lasting.

From your posts, I understand you know a lot about emotions, the biological aspect and how to regulate them. But it seems like you are not using the skills when you need it the most


Quoting 
What I think is that I still do not trust or I still do not have enough confidence of my execution of the system while trading live, because of emotional arousal that turn out into physical sensations like sudden increase in the heart beat rate, sensations on my throat, stomach, chest and even headaches sometimes when my trade is taking too long.

I had the exact same experience before, especially a knot in my chest. I used to feel that heaviness and I feared the emotion. After I learn to regulate the emotions via deep breathing and Safeplace, I observed this feeling in a calm state. Here is what I found :

"I was in a hurry to get things done all the time, impatient to learn everything and accomplish things. Even a minor distraction will tick me off. I also observed that there was a fear of fear of the feeling itself"


There are two aspects to these thoughts, the dance between Inner Critic and Adapted voice. I am sure you know them well from Rande's book.

The point is, if you are feeling emotional, you need to regulate them to open the possibility of understanding them.
Promise yourself that you will keep a journal on deep breathing and safe place throughout your trading process each day.

I start with deep breathing and safeplace before I start the computer, as I evaluate the set up, entering trades, managing trades and while exiting trades. Trust me on this, this stuff really works with practice.

One thing I recommend is to use a Spirometer to enhance your deep breathing. I used to be at 3000 ml, now I max out 4000 ml and can stay there for over 5 seconds. Use it few times every day.

https://www.amazon.com/Cardinal-AirlifeTM-Volumetric-Incentive-Spirometer/dp/B0030CEUQU

Jorge, as I mentioned to you earlier, I am at a stage where I am working with Ruler, Sage, Caregiver and Warrior. So far things are looking good. I will give a more detailed feedback once I complete this in few months time.

Since you already completed "Mind Muscles" program, probably you have something there to regulate emotions and beliefs. What ever you choose put them into practice and have it in your experience.

There is an app on Android (free) and iOS (paid) called Mindfulness Bell which I have setup to ring every 5 minutes. This is a reminder for me to deep belly breathe and be mindful. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.googlecode.mindbell&hl=en

I wish you a fantastic new year and may all these things materialize for you in the year ahead.
Rahul

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  #22 (permalink)
 kman62 
San Diego,ca
 
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I'm also in the computer field (Infrastructure & Engineering Manager) and I came across Randee website, downloaded the book and plan on reading it over the next fee days. Ive not started trading live but have been learning about how to trade for a living. My plans are to prepare my self for the next phase in my life; I'm 52 and see a time when I'm no longer appealing to corporate America and I'm looking for a business to maintain my family. I have invested in my trading education and I'm trying to figure out the right type of trading to fit my personality and all the psychology before selecting a system.

Any way I appreciate the dialog between you two. I have been looking at the following people to take me in the right direction (developing a trader's mindset) Randee Howell, Denise Shull, Dr. Kenneth Reid and Gary Dayton. Any recommendations or feedback would be helpful.

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  #23 (permalink)
 rahulgopi 
milpitas, ca, usa
 
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kman62 View Post
I'm also in the computer field (Infrastructure & Engineering Manager) and I came across Randee website, downloaded the book and plan on reading it over the next fee days. Ive not started trading live but have been learning about how to trade for a living. My plans are to prepare my self for the next phase in my life; I'm 52 and see a time when I'm no longer appealing to corporate America and I'm looking for a business to maintain my family. I have invested in my trading education and I'm trying to figure out the right type of trading to fit my personality and all the psychology before selecting a system.

Any way I appreciate the dialog between you two. I have been looking at the following people to take me in the right direction (developing a trader's mindset) Randee Howell, Denise Shull, Dr. Kenneth Reid and Gary Dayton. Any recommendations or feedback would be helpful.

Whatever system or instrument you choose, make sure you have very clear statistics on your systems performance and expectancy. Having confidence in the system you use is one major aspect of psychology. Thinking in probabilities is paramount for trading. If you have clear statistics for your system including win to loss ratio, Risk Reward ratio etc, you will know whether your system have an edge to succeed in the long run. Clear understanding of this probability will elevate your confidence and psychology. Please use your Sim trading period to figure out your trading systems expectancy.

Most of these programs target emotional regulation and understanding and replacing limiting beliefs. If you have taken any trades thus far, observing your behavior during trading will point to areas you can improve, like

1) impulsive trading, trading outside the trading plan
2) Hesitant to enter trades
3) Taking profit too soon, having difficulty letting the profits run

etc etc
As you can see, you will need a clear trading plan and statistics for your trading system before dealing with psychology.

How will you know you are unable to follow a trading plan, if you dont have one

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  #24 (permalink)
 teamtc247 
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I think what really helps is having a solid strategy and experience in the markets(trade the range if your a day trader). Trade the same way every time. Once you get over the fear of losing things become easier. Keeping stops inline with trading account, letting profits run inline with S&R and average range, and not getting in your own way. I think when you're new you don't know your butt from your face so you get worked up over not being successful when you haven't taken the time to develop your skills. Depression, fear, anxiety, euphoria, etc, it's all normal and OK. Anyways that how it is for me. I had to change my viewpoint on trading and what it is for me. Mindfulness helps, I don't mediate, but just focusing helps, I guess you could call that meditation. Anyways Randy seams like a good dude. The one thing his book has given was a different perspective on life. If you like doing things on your own Garry Van Warmerdam is good too, he's not trading related, but it all applies. Great self mastery course. Happy trading folks.

Process oriented goals #1.
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  #25 (permalink)
 Mich62 
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kman62 View Post
I'm also in the computer field (Infrastructure & Engineering Manager) and I came across Randee website, downloaded the book and plan on reading it over the next fee days. Ive not started trading live but have been learning about how to trade for a living. My plans are to prepare my self for the next phase in my life; I'm 52 and see a time when I'm no longer appealing to corporate America and I'm looking for a business to maintain my family. I have invested in my trading education and I'm trying to figure out the right type of trading to fit my personality and all the psychology before selecting a system.

Any way I appreciate the dialog between you two. I have been looking at the following people to take me in the right direction (developing a trader's mindset) Randee Howell, Denise Shull, Dr. Kenneth Reid and Gary Dayton. Any recommendations or feedback would be helpful.

With regard to developing a trader's mindset I can recommend (besides Rande Howell and Gary Dayton) the books from: Ari Kiev, Steve Ward, Mark Douglas, Adrienne Toghraie, John Coates, Michael Martin, Steve Peters. Hope this is helpful and I wish you good luck.

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  #26 (permalink)
 Briana 
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I read Rande Howell's book last night. I want a refund and my time back. Jgomez74 sums up the problem succinctly in his first post above.

Let me give you the actionable info from the book as I understand it. Breath deeply (diaphramic breathing) as it will keep you calm. Combine this with a nice image of a beach. (He, as if attempting to trademark it, calls this a “SafePlace”.) Also, be mindful of your thoughts/emotions.

However, none of the aforementioned will work long-term unless you fix your beliefs which you can do by taking the “Ignite” course he mentions over 10 times.

Note the drawn out discussion between the two traders (jgomez74 and Rahul) above. Rahul took the course. Jorge keeps asking “How do you change the archetypes?” which is part of changing your beliefs per Rande. No actionable answer is ever given by Rahul. This is all too familiar.

Throughout, the book promises, “later, you will learn” [how to change]. This never happens, at least not clearly enough for this guy with one university and one advanced degree to understand. I believe this book is about 40 pages of useful information if one was unfamiliar with breathing’s effects on the body, visualization, impact of beliefs on behavior and mindfulness. I found the rest to be filler/fluff and an up sell for the course. I don’t recommend it

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  #27 (permalink)
 kiwi 
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+1 for Briana's view.

Time that one can never get back.

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  #28 (permalink)
 researcher247 
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^ Exactly!

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  #29 (permalink)
 Briana 
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I posted a shorter version of my comments above on Rande’s most recent YouTube video. He quickly responded and wrote that I should look elsewhere for change because the process is “extremely challenging”. He called the book, that he advertises as being able to change behavior, as an “introductory work” that explains the problem and “gives preliminary steps” to solving it. So, based on the authors comments, if you want to know what your mental trading problem is, and want the beginning of a solution, this is the book for you! But, if you want the full solution, it sounds to me like you have to sign up for the course he repeatedly advertises in the book. It is only 995 or you can opt for the 3k personalized version.

But there’s more!

I responded and pointed out to Rande that his website’s only description of the book was a review that states Rande’s book “lays out a step by step process for change”. I explained that he has adopted this by highlighting it in his advertising, it might as well be him saying it. I also pointed out that the headline on his websites book landing page is “Are you ready to master your trading psychology”.

Apparently, Rande didn’t like that as he deleted my comments.

I don’t know, but, a step by step process for changing trading habits is what I kind of thought I was getting when I bought that book. Should I have expected an awareness of the problem and preliminary steps to fixing it instead? You be the judge.

I’ve attached screen shots of the first exchange and his website so you can check my veracity. Enjoy.

(Note-so as to avoid confusion, there was a second post to Rande by me that I did not post here. In it, I commented about claims about the book that were on his website. He did not respond to it).

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  #30 (permalink)
 rahulgopi 
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Dear All,
I reviewed Rande few years back when I was desperately looking for a solution, left my high paying job , jumped into full time trading and had to deal with my emotional baggage. I read Rande, Hawkins, Emotion code, Sedona method, Lefko etc etc.. All these are quick fixes , results wont last as it is a play of mind. You learn some new techniques but ultimately start worrying when episodes are repeated, one start doubting the process..

After 10 years in trading and 20 years in tech /high pressure start-ups ( currently involved in a security start-up thus finding very less time for forum), I am compelled to write here as I have originally endorsed some of these methods after trying them. There are only few fundamentals that really worked for me

1) your world only exist in your mind. How you perceive anything depends on your belief system. You never see anything as it is , as everything is filtered thru the veil of your mind. Thus our worlds are different and only exist in our minds.

2) You are not your mind or body. Your body is an accumulation of food. Your mind is an accumulation of impressions you gathered via your sensory organs each and every minute of your existence.

3) Your experience, thoughts, emotions, feelings only exist in your conscious mind. You are prior to your consciousness. You are the background of your awareness, your consciousness .

With this as the backdrop, try to watch your awareness (awareness watching awareness ), meditate. This is the one thing that worked for me. Your thoughts are essentially recycling your memory , attach no value to it. Barely .01 % of your thoughts are conscious , rest are unconscious but we are so identified with it. Work on developing a little space between you and your thoughts.. Rest are all fallacies of mind.. more characters to deal with , the orphan and the ruler and the sage and the stories

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